Author Topic: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM  (Read 5694 times)

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Offline bateau020Topic starter

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Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« on: May 10, 2021, 11:52:52 am »
hi,
looking for a relatively serious bench DMM, my first one. Requirements:
  • fast booting. Less than 10 secs is strongly preferred. Anything more, and I might tend to reach for one of the better handhelds more often, and let the thing gather dust.
  • 5.5 digits, maybe 4.5 if nothing suitable can be found. No need for 6 or more.
  • 4W resistance meter, 1mOhm resolution
  • nA resolution
  • dual display. ACV+DCV at least. If possible DCV+DCI
  • ETH or WiFi connectivity. This is a hard requirement.
  • fast continuity test, loud beep
  • low power consumption, and quiet
  • no boat anchor: 30cm depth max

Budget: preferably < 500 EUR. But can be convinced to go up to 1000 EUR if the machine is really nice.
And I don't mind hacking a bit to swap out a fan.

So I came up with a small list of meters that more or less fit the bill:
  • OWON XDM3051
  • Rigol DM3068 (why do so many people hate the DM3058?)
  • Siglent SDM3055 (but slow booter it seems)
  • Keysight EDU34450A
  • R&S/Hameg HMC8012

Any recommendations?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 12:03:28 pm by bateau020 »
 

Offline balage

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2021, 02:38:10 pm »
Hey,

Why do you need that fast booting speed? I turn them on once and only turn them off when not using them for a while.

EDU34450A has been released a few months ago and I have not heard good things about it.
 

Offline fcb

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2021, 03:25:17 pm »
Aim-TTI 1908, 5.5 digits for £486 incl UK VAT, so pretty close to your <500EUR.
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Offline voltsandjolts

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2021, 03:30:27 pm »
Aim-TTI 1908, 5.5 digits for £486 incl UK VAT, so pretty close to your <500EUR.

Where is this price available?
I'm considering one of these to replace my handheld.
I do 90% bench work, and the 1908 has batteries to cope with the 10% away from bench stuff.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 03:32:14 pm by voltsandjolts »
 

Offline fcb

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2021, 04:42:31 pm »
Farnell, RS listed as distributors on the TTi w/s.

https://www.rapidonline.com/aim-tti-1908-5-5-digit-dual-measurement-digital-multimeter-usb-rs232-lxi-85-4887
Rapid have it for less, not sure what's going on there. Seem to be quite different prices on RS/FEC - seems that FEC have next day stock available, but at a higher price.

Give TTi a bell and ask them for a price.  Their customer service has been great in the past.

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Offline MosherIV

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2021, 05:03:59 pm »
Quote
fast booting. Less than 10 secs is strongly preferred. Anything more, and I might tend to reach for one of the better handhelds more often, and let the thing gather dust.
5.5 digits,

If you want the accuracy of the 5.5 digit, most bench dmm in the 5digit+ field need time for the voltage reference to warm up and stablise. Normally takes at least 1 hour. So fast boot time is pointless.
 
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Offline BeBuLamar

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2021, 05:47:28 pm »
Also power consumption isn't important on a bench meter is it?
 

Offline bateau020Topic starter

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2021, 05:58:49 pm »
If you want the accuracy of the 5.5 digit, most bench dmm in the 5digit+ field need time for the voltage reference to warm up and stablise. Normally takes at least 1 hour. So fast boot time is pointless.
Yes, I get that. I just do not need that resolution all the time. Electronics is not my full time job. So the meter will be off most of the time. Sometimes I just want a quick "is this circuit dead" test. 2 digits might even do there. And I'd like that to be available fast. Sometimes I can take my time, and might need more resolution then. I just want 1 tool to cover those use cases. Yes, I have more handheld DMMs than I'd need, but desk space is scarce, especially in this work-from-home period. A bench DMM can help with that.

Also power consumption isn't important on a bench meter is it?
well, high power consumption generally means fan noise. I would like things to be quiet so I can hear my thoughts. ;D


The AIM-TTI 1908P looks really nice, such a shame it only goes down to 100nA, like the HMC8012. Superb dual/triple display capabilities, but this is holding me back from them.
 

Offline PeterKlop

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2021, 06:46:16 pm »
GW Instek GDM-9061 (or 9060) boots fast.

I bought one a year ago and haven't used it since (life got in the way) but i was nicely suprised by the quick power on when i tested the unit.

https://www.gwinstek.com/en-global/products/detail/GDM-906x

https://www.eleshop.nl/gw-instek-gdm-9061-multimeter.html

Youtube video:

https://youtu.be/-x8Bvjc8yIQ
 
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Offline exe

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2021, 06:51:46 pm »
I'd myself would love to buy this one: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vc8145-thread-it_s-here-finally/ . Seems to be a good bench dmm. I'm only hold back by its price, if only it cost $50-70. Paying 180euro for an "empy box" for me a bit hard.

My current bench dmm is Keithley K2000. I like it, but it doesn't tick your boxes.

I'm also dreaming of a compact version of DMM6500, but that's wishful thinking.
 

Offline Hydron

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2021, 09:14:14 pm »
I'm also dreaming of a compact version of DMM6500, but that's wishful thinking.
At least there is some reason for the length (scanner card support, plus commonality of the platform with the DAQ version). They could certainly have shaved off a few cm even with scanner card support if they'd moved the transformer and made a dedicated chassis/PCB though, but it's understandable why they didn't.

As for the boot time, the DMM6500 is about 15s - 14s more than I'd prefer, but significantly better than the WinCE KS stuff. When I researched buying a DMM recently the Hameg/R&S HMC8012 sounded like it was probably the quickest modern option - well under 10s. I'd suggest the OP looks at this one again as it seems to meet most of the requirements, and maybe attain the low current resolution in another fashion (e.g. build a DIY feedback ammeter adapter, it's not too hard and you can get pA resolution that way).
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2021, 12:37:39 am »
looking for a relatively serious bench DMM, my first one. Requirements:

fast booting. Less than 10 secs is strongly preferred. Anything more, and I might tend to reach for one of the better handhelds more often, and let the thing gather dust.
...

Any recommendations?

If taking best advantage of the presumed extra accuracy of a bench multimeter means leaving it turned on, then boot time becomes irrelevant.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2021, 12:49:47 am »
Look at the BK 5492C.  I don't know the boot time and it seems to be 35cm long, but it meets all your other criteria and has a lot of nice features.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2021, 06:51:20 am »
If taking best advantage of the presumed extra accuracy of a bench multimeter means leaving it turned on, then boot time becomes irrelevant.

Sometimes I just want to take a quick measurement, then boot time becomes relevant :).
 

Online tautech

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2021, 08:08:16 am »
SDM3055 boot time is 16s.
SDM3045X is same but no fan so sometimes preferred for quiet labs however these have different measuring ranges so datasheets need be compared to ensure which model is the best fit for requirements.
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2021, 05:11:45 pm »
If taking best advantage of the presumed extra accuracy of a bench multimeter means leaving it turned on, then boot time becomes irrelevant.

Sometimes I just want to take a quick measurement, then boot time becomes relevant :).

When I had an HP3478A on my bench which has a relatively fast boot time, I left it turned on during the day anyway.  If the meter is left powered on, then there is no boot time.
 

Offline jeffjmr

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2021, 03:26:16 am »
My Keithley 2015THD boots in about 4 seconds.

Jeff
 

Offline narkeleptk

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2021, 04:59:13 am »
I have a tektronix dmm4050. It is pretty nice. You can find good deals on used ones once in awhile. The boot time for power switch is instant long as your leaving the mains switch on. If that is unhooked it takes 30 seconds. Cant say I ever hear fan noise from it, probably fan-less. Its a great meter, all my hand held units are in a drawer somewhere now.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2021, 04:05:34 pm »
TEK doesn't make DMM any more. I guess since they belong to the same company that owns Fluke so they leave the DMM and portable scopes business to Fluke.
 

Offline bateau020Topic starter

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2021, 04:17:12 pm »
The Fluke equivalent (8846A) is sold by official distributors, new, certified and all, at a price (just) lower than second hand machines (in Europe at least). Go figure. Maybe they are planning to replace it or leave the market? It has been on the market since 2006.... But it is a very nice (but pricey) machine indeed.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 04:19:05 pm by bateau020 »
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2021, 04:58:37 pm »
The Fluke equivalent (8846A) is sold by official distributors, new, certified and all, at a price (just) lower than second hand machines (in Europe at least). Go figure. Maybe they are planning to replace it or leave the market? It has been on the market since 2006.... But it is a very nice (but pricey) machine indeed.

The 8846A is dated, all new bench meter uses a graphical color LCD display, not the VFD that ages rather fast. I have two 8846A, one need service, I hope it is a capacitor, but I have not had time to look at it yet. I do not doubt the precision of the 8846A, it is a very precise meter, but it is lacking the features of Keysight 344xxA and Keithley DMMxxxx. I suppose the Keithley meters are the replacement for it.
 

Offline narkeleptk

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2021, 12:32:15 am »
The 8846A is dated, all new bench meter uses a graphical color LCD display, not the VFD that ages rather fast. I have two 8846A, one need service, I hope it is a capacitor, but I have not had time to look at it yet. I do not doubt the precision of the 8846A, it is a very precise meter, but it is lacking the features of Keysight 344xxA and Keithley DMMxxxx. I suppose the Keithley meters are the replacement for it.

I was planning to go with a newer Keithley but found a steal on the 4050 for $500, couldn't resist it at that price.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2021, 11:44:41 pm »
The 8846A is dated, all new bench meter uses a graphical color LCD display, not the VFD that ages rather fast. I have two 8846A, one need service, I hope it is a capacitor, but I have not had time to look at it yet. I do not doubt the precision of the 8846A, it is a very precise meter, but it is lacking the features of Keysight 344xxA and Keithley DMMxxxx. I suppose the Keithley meters are the replacement for it.

I wouldn't typically recommend an 8846A to the "which DMM should I buy" crowd, but some of the criticisms of it are overdone or don't take into account the way they are used and abused.  I have one and while it has its quirks (it likes to say 'overload' a lot), as a general purpose bench meter it by far outclasses anything else that I've tried.

For example, the VFD issue is a a non-issue for the typical hobbyist or solo professional that takes care of their equipment and needs a high quality service bench meter.  Although a high-quality TFT display with LED backlighting might be superior, the VFD is better than most lesser quality LCDs or any OLED when it comes to durability and viewability.  Sure, I've seen some of these faded (but never failed, so far) but the oldest of these are 15 years old by now and probably have been left on for extended periods at the default (high) brightness.  If you use the low or medium setting and turn the display off when you aren't using it, I would expect them to last a very long time.  The only ones that last forever are the segmented LED displays, but imagine the whining about datedness if someone came out with those again.

As for features, which features?  Yes, the newer meters can have graphing ,histograms and so on, but are those the features you want?  How about instant on, 1000VAC, 1Gohm, 5V/10V diode with 1.0 and 0.1mA current selection, most ranges and features selectable with one button push, two at the most?  Fast continuity with selectable 1/10/100/1000 ohm set points?  Accuracy approaching metrology-grade meters along with a very low tempco so it stays accurate in a non-controlled environment? It's definitely a pro model and you pay for it.

Now there are downsides.  The current measurement setup is a mess if you need precision as good as you would expect from an almost $2K meter without reading the spec sheet.  However, the biggest trap is that they are not as internally physically robust nor as serviceable as their 8842A predecessors.  I can only recommend the 8846A/DMM4050 for most if you either don't care about money and can just buy a new one, or you score a deal on a mint-condition used one.  Buying a used/abused model is a recipe for disaster as broken ones are tough to fix for a variety of reasons.  This has caused some people to sour on them, but I have seen no evidence that one of these that is acquired new or mint will give any problems as long as it lives a nice comfortable life.  I definitely recommend not dropping them.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 12:25:32 am by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2021, 10:59:57 am »
If taking best advantage of the presumed extra accuracy of a bench multimeter means leaving it turned on, then boot time becomes irrelevant.

Sometimes I just want to take a quick measurement, then boot time becomes relevant :).
Yes, we get that. But since bench DMMs are designed for accuracy, and said accuracy necessitates a substantial warm-up period, boot time isn’t a high-priority design requirement. Hence why most bench meters take their time booting up.

I have the Keithley 2015, and it boots in just a few seconds (so presumably, its sibling models do, too), and it’s fanless. But it doesn’t have Ethernet or dual display, so out of the running.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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Re: Looking for a fast booting bench DMM
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2021, 11:20:11 am »
I agree! If accuracy isn't important then why use a bench DMM? They don't offer any more functionality than a hand held one except accuracy.
 


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