Looking for a replacement general purpose oscilloscope for home use

[Martin72]

Hi,

Assuming you have the options list in your mind's eye, it always shows the remaining time in days, with 30 days as the starting point.
Now you use one of these options, then you have used up a "day" at that moment.
If you remember two weeks later, oh I could try it again, another day is "gone".
Something like that.

[joeqsmith]

Hi,

Assuming you have the options list in your mind's eye, it always shows the remaining time in days, with 30 days as the starting point.
Now you use one of these options, then you have used up a "day" at that moment.
If you remember two weeks later, oh I could try it again, another day is "gone".
Something like that.

So if I am only using the basic package, no options, it will run forever? 

[Martin72]

I would say yes.
I can check tomorrow at work, we have 6 Siglent scopes, three of them for 2 years and have not tried the possible options, so the list should still show 30 days everywhere.
It's different with lecroy:
You can get trial licenses from them, also for 30 days.
But they run immediately as soon as you have installed these keys.

[tautech]

Not really.

When does it ask? 

When trial options have expired and you select one to use.
The list is here P19
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2023/12/SDS7000A_Datasheet_EN01B.pdf

[KungFuJosh]

Not really.

When does it ask?  Does it ask when I trigger?  Does it ask when I turn it on, run an FFT?

I believe they mean you power on the scope, and use a specific function. For example, AWG. You can use the AWG 1000 times before you power off the scope, and that constitutes a single use (1 out of 30).

[egonotto]

Hello,

at least with the SDS2000X HD, the use of one decode option (e.g. SPI even if you already have the license for it) is sufficient to reduce all decode options by one.

Best regards
egonotto

[joeqsmith]

at least with the SDS2000X HD, the use of one decode option (e.g. SPI even if you already have the license for it) is sufficient to reduce all decode options by one.

That's bad if that's the case.   tautech, please verify. 

It's different with lecroy:

With LeCroy, Keysight, Tektronix ... other name companies I have worked with, for business, they just drop it off and we run it for a few weeks and they pick it up.  I've never tried to get a loaner for home hobby use. 

[tautech]

at least with the SDS2000X HD, the use of one decode option (e.g. SPI even if you already have the license for it) is sufficient to reduce all decode options by one.

That's bad if that's the case.   tautech, please verify. 

This should not be the case and I have never seen such as any option trial use is only diminished when that option is used.
We don't have 2kX HD in stock to check only some others but quicker was to search the NA website.
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/how-to-check-sds2000x-plus-options/
While this ^ is not definitive I believe the below is:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/how-to-check-sds5000x-installed-options/

[Harrow]

I believe they mean you power on the scope, and use a specific function. For example, AWG. You can use the AWG 1000 times before you power off the scope, and that constitutes a single use (1 out of 30).

So if you never turn your scope off, you get to use the trial forever?

[tautech]

I believe they mean you power on the scope, and use a specific function. For example, AWG. You can use the AWG 1000 times before you power off the scope, and that constitutes a single use (1 out of 30).

So if you never turn your scope off, you get to use the trial forever?

Yes.
Unlike analyzers that count down the 120hrs system time of trial option use.

[egonotto]

Hello,

I have never used ARINC. And Grandchuck has also confirmed the problem in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/950/ Reply #962. In his picture you can see that I2S and ARINC each have 17 left.

Best regards
egonotto

[KungFuJosh]

It appears to be a possible bug on the newer firmware of the 2000X HD. I don't know if it affects other models. I don't have any trial periods on my 2KX+ to test. 😉

[tautech]

It appears to be a possible bug on the newer firmware of the 2000X HD. I don't know if it affects other models. I don't have any trial periods on my 2KX+ to test. 😉

It seems to be.
Just tested ARINC use with 2kX Plus which counts down each usage.
We have tricks to restore to 30 again.....

[KungFuJosh]

It appears to be a possible bug on the newer firmware of the 2000X HD. I don't know if it affects other models. I don't have any trial periods on my 2KX+ to test. 😉

It seems to be.
Just tested ARINC use with 2kX Plus which counts down each usage.
We have tricks to restore to 30 again.....

It seems the addition of the A429 option has confused the license system a little. Somebody probably wasn't careful enough copypastaing the new option license. 😉

[joeqsmith]

This poor guy bought a "working" WaveBlunder.   This is a newer model than mine but very similar.  Starting at 9:20, he starts to pull it apart.  Pay attention to how far it must be pulled down to replace the coin cell.   

[Kosmic]

This poor guy bought a "working" WaveBlunder.   This is a newer model than mine but very similar.  Starting at 9:20, he starts to pull it apart.  Pay attention to how far it must be pulled down to replace the coin cell.   

Kind of remember me when I had to remove the PC motherboard from a Tektronix DPO7054. It's a little less tight inside, but to get the motherboard out you need to remove everything first.

I hope he had some kind of refund from the seller. Finding a replacement motherboard (with pcie/104 and LVDS onboard) is not going to be easy nor cheap.

[nctnico]

This poor guy bought a "working" WaveBlunder.   This is a newer model than mine but very similar.  Starting at 9:20, he starts to pull it apart.  Pay attention to how far it must be pulled down to replace the coin cell.   

Where are the anti-static mat and wristband? Minimum requirements when taking computers and test equipment apart.

Most likely his problem is a contact issue. FR4 boards are sturdy and can take quite a bit of bending. But it is possible the previous owner messed it up doing the SSD upgrade and sold it on.

[joeqsmith]

...
I hope he had some kind of refund from the seller. Finding a replacement motherboard (with pcie/104 and LVDS onboard) is not going to be easy nor cheap.

If I were the seller and saw someone pulling my equipment apart like this with total disregard to basic ESD practices, I would not only reject any claims, but most likely would make a video rant about wannabes.     

Most likely his problem is a contact issue. FR4 boards are sturdy and can take quite a bit of bending. But it is possible the previous owner messed it up doing the SSD upgrade and sold it on.

I had a very similar symptom crop up with my cheapo Diglent ARTY board that I was using to test a scope I was looking at.  Touch the USB and it would take down the PC.  Under the microscope, there was a solder ball down under the connector.  I would have started by inspecting the connectors. 

I would like to have that scope.  Newer MB than my old one.  Guessing much faster.

[Kosmic]

...
I hope he had some kind of refund from the seller. Finding a replacement motherboard (with pcie/104 and LVDS onboard) is not going to be easy nor cheap.

If I were the seller and saw someone pulling my equipment apart like this with total disregard to basic ESD practices, I would not only reject any claims, but most likely would make a video rant about wannabes.     

I was assuming he came to a closure with the seller before digging in. But ... maybe not 

Imagine the reaction of the seller when he receive the returned scope in parts. And the worst is that I'm sure Ebay would side with the buyer.

A similar scope sold for 1675$ 2 days ago on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/235512623988. I was expecting a lot higher.

[joeqsmith]

Sounds like it may need a new screen but the one picture they show, I didn't notice the defects seller mentions.  Even without any options,  that was a deal, assuming it has no other problems. 

I bought a DMM from a large distributor people use here.  When it arrived, it was pretty obvious some wannabe reviewer had taken it apart and in the process had damaged a cable and lost a screw, then returned it.   

[moerm]

I don't get it, why not just keep the scope you seem to be happy with (minus some issues) and instead of shelling out 15k to 20k for another not-perfect scope (aka compromise) rather spend another 3K or so to get a fully working known to be good (no bent boards and/or chassis, etc.) of the model you have? Yes, I know, slow connectivity and storage, etc. but then, is it really worth north of 10k to you to not have those issues anymore? Plus, going the way I'd choose you'd get to keep your current scope as a well known parts box.

As for screen size my personal take is, oh well, just use a (comparatively cheap) large VGA monitor. Anyway for most of the daily use the kind of small scope screen is good enough and if and when one needs to have a larger display how about a really large one rather than yet another compromise (like 12" vs 8")?

Disclaimer: I have a weak spot for LeCroy scopes and thought long and hard before I decided to go for a Wavepro 960/DDA260 (one of the reasons being that it's not Windows infested). Certainly (probably different from you) not my day to day scope but rather the "big monster" for serious cases and/or > 500 MHz.
Caveat: I seriously doubt that build quality nowadays is better than back then, but yes, unfortunately older LeCroys are known for some weak spots, in particular poor plastics. But then we don't run a show room but a home lab ... Besides, while highly likely 3D-scanning wouldn't be cheap, 3D printing a new front-plate/cover shouldn't be expensive; once scanned selling the 3D print files for a hobbyist-friendly couple of bucks should recover the scanning investment and get you a nice crack-free front-plate.

Finally a quick note re the Siglent option: I like their scopes and don't consider Siglent a brand any worse than say Agilent/keysight/[name of the decade]. In fact I'm very likely to buy a 3000 as my everyday/mid-range analysis scope.
But: I would not (yet) consider their 6000 and 7000 series as a serious option.

Whatever route you choose, please continue your multimeter tests (videos)! I really like them and lot a value them highly.

Friendly regards

[2N3055]

But: I would not (yet) consider their 6000 and 7000 series as a serious option.

Friendly regards

Could you elaborate why, if you are willing to?
What is making you say so?

Thanks and best regards,

Siniša

[Martin72]

I would also be interested in the reasoning behind this.

[moerm]

But: I would not (yet) consider their 6000 and 7000 series as a serious option.

Friendly regards

Could you elaborate why, if you are willing to?
What is making you say so?

Thanks and best regards,

Siniša

Diverse reasons, the main one being that maturity isn't achieved "overnight". With Siglent scopes, I'm talking about the up to 3000 and 5000 series, maturing could be observed and maturity has been reached. That also means and includes practical experience and many details e.g. in, but not limited to production and firmware. But reaching maturity needs time and the experience coming with it.
Also the 80/20 rule plays a major role and that also again translates to time. To put it simply, pretty much any company, and many chinese companies demonstrate that, can design and produce an "80%" scope but it's the remaining 20% that really need time, experience, and major efforts (and money) and one should note that quite a few companies (Owon comes to mind as one example) seem to not even care and to intentionally address and (largely) build for the "80%" market that is, basically kind of nice instruments but with kinks, weaknesses, no or few and late firmware updates, etc.

It's the remaining 20% that make all the difference. With scopes up to 3000/5000 series Siglent IMO has had the time, has gained the experience, and has demonstrated the will to go "the extra mile", in short, became a mature player.
Scopes in the GHz range though is a different breed of beast (also in terms of $$) and while I have no doubt that Siglent will achieve maturity there too I think that one should not underestimate how much time is needed for that.

Also, of course, for a hobby lab the $1000 to $3000 region probably is within range, at least for many, the $10000+ highly likely is not. Plus, reviews and teardowns play a major role in that market and as of now (credible) reviews and good and full teardowns of the high-end series still are rare. To put it bluntly, before I (or most hobbyists) shell out $10000+ (plus active probes which as of now are as few as teardowns and not exactly cheap either) I, at a very minimum want to see some credible reviews from collegues I can take seriously (i.e. e.g. max 1 'lol' per post) and some teardowns.

As I said, I don't have any doubt that Siglent sooner or later will arrive there, but as of now IMO they are not yet really there.
As a side note, that also shows in their active probes. AFAIK a 1 GHz and a 2.5 GHz active probe is all they offer so far (and with very little info/details).

Friendly regards

P.S. What I just wrote also shows in humans and human thinking (or "thinking"). Just one example: IMO for a mature person thinking not just superficially, active probes and >= 1 GHz scopes go hand in hand. After all, what good is a 3 GHz scope without, preferably good and mature probes? LeCroy, for instance, has quite a few mature, "battle proven" active probes and plenty of info on them.

[egonotto]

... With scopes up to 3000/5000 series Siglent IMO has had the time, has gained the experience, and has demonstrated the will to go "the extra mile", in short, became a mature player.
.....

Hello,

do I understand correctly that you consider the SDS3000X HD to be fully developed?

Best regards
egonotto