Looking for a replacement general purpose oscilloscope for home use

[mawyatt]

Joe, you should know better than asking this on here      

Anyway, since you have a LeCroy, and maybe LeCroy Active Probes? Consider a replacement DSO/MSO that supports those expensive Active Probes or offers an adapter for such!!

Siglent has the LPA10 adapter for LeCroy active probes apparently that works with their SDS6000A and the 6000 has a Analysis Bundle Offer which includes some nice features/options.

If you decide to go Siglent's route, get Rob working for you

And don't forget the EEVblog discount at Saelig

Best,

[Antonio90]

Joe, you should know better than asking this on here      

Anyway, since you have a LeCroy, and maybe LeCroy Active Probes? Consider a replacement DSO/MSO that supports those expensive Active Probes or offers an adapter for such!!

Siglent has the LPA10 adapter for LeCroy active probes apparently that works with their SDS6000A and the 6000 has a Analysis Bundle Offer which includes some nice features/options.

If you decide to go Siglent's route, get Rob working for you

And don't forget the EEVblog discount at Saelig

Best,

Well, for good or for ill (probably for good) there aren't that many of us that can talk about scopes with the features requested. I myself haven't even touched any piece of TE sold for over 3K in the last 15 years. I think the question is safe, and I'm actually quite curious. Hoping Joe gets a few on loan and we, in turn, get a few interesting videos. 

[ebastler]

I've never heard of anybody refusing a test drive...for a car anyway. 😉

Scope manufacturers might have reservations in this particular case, if they happen to know how Joe test-drives multimeters. 

[Grandchuck]

eblastler? The grill starter?

[joeqsmith]

...the MHO3 has LAN with 1 Gb/s. I use this LAN. I had quite a few problems with the USB connection. The manual does not say how to do this. Finally I found that you have to use the USB-C socket, but that not every cable works.
...

Thanks for this bit of info.  If you have a running blog where you are posting about your experience with this scope, please provide a link. 

[joeqsmith]

Anyway, since you have a LeCroy, and maybe LeCroy Active Probes? Consider a replacement DSO/MSO that supports those expensive Active Probes or offers an adapter for such!!

Yes, I do have a few different probes and adapters.  I listed the active probes here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/12-ghz-active-probe-project/msg4988716/#msg4988716

I use these with the old WaveMaster and have no plans to retire that scope anytime soon.  Unlike the WavePro 7300a mentioned, the WaveMaster is 50ohm only, really for high speed (at the time) use.   So, really no need to worry about their proprietary interface.  This is why I specifically called out the standard BNC inputs. 

[joeqsmith]

Looking to replace my general purpose scope with something more modern.  After seeing the post:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/magnova-oscilloscope/   I thought I would toss out what I am looking for.

A few problem with my LeCroy is the poor quality mechanical packaging...

It's probably not what you are looking for, but know that your old Lecroy can probably be upgraded (CPU / RAM / Win7 / Screen / TouchScreen / Firmware). In the end, most of the PC parts are quite standard.

I'm in the middle of that process on a Lecroy WaveRunner 6100 and a WavePro 7300a. It's a lot of fiddling but not super expensive.

Normally I would say this is a valid point.  However, the scope I have is old.  I got it used.  It was damaged when I received it.  Factory attempted repairs but were not successful.   Problem resides in the acquisition system, not the PC.  I suspect the cause was two fold.  First, the case design is poor and allows for flexing of the boards.  Then it runs hot.  So the scope had a short life.   My attempts to repair it were somewhat successful.  I've used it for my daily driver for 8 years or so.  But it is starting to act up again and it's not the PC.   

I thought about getting another used, but newer version of the same scope and keeping this thing for parts.  You can find them under 3, in "working" condition with a 5-day warranty.   Problem is, I do not know if they addressed any of the mechanical issues with the newer packaging.  Looking at photos, I have my doubts. 

Rather than dealing with used, I'm looking at getting my second brand new scope in my entire life. 

[joeqsmith]

I've never heard of anybody refusing a test drive...for a car anyway. 😉

Scope manufacturers might have reservations in this particular case, if they happen to know how Joe test-drives multimeters. 

eblastler? The grill starter?

You guys...  

Lets be fair,  while I did actually hit my 5GHz WaveMaster with the grill starter, I knew what I was doing.   

So yeah, maybe I'm not the typical user but consider I've been working as a EE for 40years and I have yet  to damage a scope's front end.   I'm a bit surprised by that myself....

I have seen people damage them on a frequent basis at work.  We do a fair bit with high voltages which certainly increases the risks. 


***
I recently did look at SJL's new scope.  Did a bit more than unbox it and give it a five gold star review.   
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-sized-6-ghz-1-tss-et-scope/

[joeqsmith]

Looking at the LeCroy HDO6054B-L and noticed they use Windows 10.   I normally wouldn't care but recently I upgraded my modem at home.  No big deal you would think.   Plugged the modem into my desktop PC, set the thing up.  Then connected it on the WAN and went to activate it. They required a direct connection to do this.  As soon as the PC I was using had direct internet connection, the PC was locked.  Locked meaning I could not even bring up task manager.   This went on for basically the entire day while Microsoft had their way with a computer that had not been touched in a few years..   

I run DDWRT and normally all the Windows PC sit behind it.  I wrote some software to parse the Wireshark files and create scripts for DDWRT that basically blocks all traffic to/from Microsoft.   This has allowed me to actually use the PCs.    So, this PC that I used to get the modem setup is only used to stream data to the TV set.   A few days go by and I had some time to relax and watch some TV.  I turn on the PC and Microsoft starts their next updates.  I had forgot to unplug the direct connection.   About a half hour goes by and they are done.  There went the time I was going to relax.   

So I wonder if I had a scope running 10, could I actually ever use it?  Would it be like my PC connected to the TV and spend more time upgrading than actually doing what it's intended use is?   The scope will be on the LAN and could possibly have access to the internet.  Last thing I want it MS messing with my test equipment!   

***
Not finding much out there.  Basically unboxing.  I do like that larger display.   Too bad LeCroy doesn't hang out here.

 

[KungFuJosh]

So I wonder if I had a scope running 10, could I actually ever use it?  Would it be like my PC connected to the TV and spend more time upgrading than actually doing what it's intended use is?   The scope will be on the LAN and could possibly have access to the internet.  Last thing I want it MS messing with my test equipment!   

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10

Skip ahead to the regedit part.

[tautech]

Last thing I want it MS messing with my test equipment!   

FYI, Siglent gear uses Linux based OS.

I can certainly arrange for loaners to assess.
We don't have the SDS7000A models but do have a SDS6204A which we can give any feedback if you require any info.

[tautech]

This is where a PC based scope might be best for Joe's needs but the 15.6" display 3 GHz 12bit SDS7304A is some $20k ...

For a general purpose scope, I want something standalone.   I looked at the 7000 series.  It's a bit overkill and I would want many of the options added on.  Didn't total it up but I'm guessing 30 when it's all said and done.  After their business practice of going after their  customers and then playing with that Arb, I was turned off on the brand.   

I'll look around and see if I can find a decent review where someone actually shows something beyond taking it out of the box and showing the probes ....    I'll get back to you with any questions.

They have an option bundle promo until June 30th, and the options in the bundle are free. I dunno if it's all of them or not. I'm pretty sure you could get a loaner of that scope before you purchase to try it out.

https://siglentna.com/news-article/siglent-sds7000a-introduction-promotion/
Not all by quite some margin as many of the advanced analysis options and compliance tests are not in the promo.
SDS7000A-1GPTS
SDS7000A-EJ
SDS7000A-USB2
SDS7000A-CT-USB2
SDS7000A-CT-100BASE-T
SDS7000A-CT-1000BASE-T
SDS7000A-CT-100BASE-T1
SDS7000A-CT-1000BASE-T1

[joeqsmith]

So I wonder if I had a scope running 10, could I actually ever use it?  Would it be like my PC connected to the TV and spend more time upgrading than actually doing what it's intended use is?   The scope will be on the LAN and could possibly have access to the internet.  Last thing I want it MS messing with my test equipment!   

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-stop-updates-installing-automatically-windows-10

Skip ahead to the regedit part.

Article was from 2022 and from my experience, MS does like to change things up.  From the article you linked:

If you experience more problems than benefits during updates, or if you have a good reason to use a device without updates, depending on your edition of Windows 10, you can disable automatic updates using the Settings app or permanently with Group Policy and Registry.

On Windows 10 Pro, the Local Group Policy Editor includes policies to permanently disable automatic updates or change the update settings to choose when patches should be installed on the device.

Now I don't know what version of Windows is supplied in which products, or if MS has changed how the registry works.  This is why I went the route of blocking ALL Microsoft traffic.  The last time I had a similar experience to my modem update, MS upgraded my PC and I noticed more traffic.  Running Wireshark for a few days, I noticed they had added a for more address blocks.  They must hard code this into their updates.   After patching my router scripts, the problem was once again solved.

FYI, Siglent gear uses Linux based OS.

From my own experience, this may be a big plus.  However, I really don't know what the security problems are with LINUX.   The nice thing about my equipment, Windows NT, 2000, XP are so old, no one cares.   

My current scope's screen size is even smaller than the 6000 but I do like those large displays. 

[joeqsmith]

Let's assume Siglent would be willing to send out a loaner of the 7k series loaded up, to some home hobby user.   How long do they typically extend that trial time?  Do they offer time extensions?  Is it possible to get a used one that I could inspect their construction? 

I couldn't find a single review of it.   Are there programming examples available?   Videos showing the transfer speeds and such? 

[KungFuJosh]

The registry has worked the same for ages. Entries change sometimes, but rarely does an established entry change like that.

Linux is typically more secure than Windows. Windows by far has the highest market share, which is why it's also the biggest target for hackers. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide

[Martin72]

Hi,

I couldn't find a single review of it.

That is not surprising.
The Scope is still fairly new on the market and the price is clearly aimed at corporate customers rather than hobbyists.
In this price range, it is more likely to be manufactured on demand and not stocked on the shelves of dealers.
Therefore, I can only recommend that you contact siglent NA directly with your questions.
In any case, I will be contacting Siglent EU about this soon, as we are still looking for an "official" scope with a bandwidth of at least 2Ghz.
With lecroy at least, such a request was always fruitful, and we were given the models on loan for about 3 weeks.

[tautech]

Let's assume Siglent would be willing to send out a loaner of the 7k series loaded up, to some home hobby user.   How long do they typically extend that trial time?  Do they offer time extensions? 

Option trial time is normally 30 free uses and not ON time related.

For our demo models we can apply for trial time licenses to be reset and receive a single license code for a global reset.

Is it possible to get a used one that I could inspect their construction? 

Unlikely however you could ask.
As yet there is not a service manual available with construction details to inspect.

Are there programming examples available?

From P736 onwards
https://siglentna.com/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2024/03/ProgrammingGuide_EN11F.pdf

[joeqsmith]

Option trial time is normally 30 free uses and not ON time related.

For our demo models we can apply for trial time licenses to be reset and receive a single license code for a global reset.

So 30 power ups?  30 triggers? 

30 power cycles would be fine.  Guessing within a month I would know if its a keeper.   Encoders work?  Don't give me the sob story that I turn them too fast. 

[Martin72]

30 calls.
E.g., once called, one day gone.
Called again at some point, another day gone.

[joeqsmith]

Call? I have no idea what that means?

[tautech]

Option trial time is normally 30 free uses and not ON time related.

For our demo models we can apply for trial time licenses to be reset and receive a single license code for a global reset.

So 30 power ups?  30 triggers? 

30 power cycles would be fine.  Guessing within a month I would know if its a keeper.   Encoders work?  Don't give me the sob story that I turn them too fast.

As mentioned I've never had my hands on 7000A.
Ping member coromonadalix in Canada as he got a trial unit to assess and can give fair feedback on his findings.
 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds7000a-dsos-coming/msg5318461/#msg5318461

[tautech]

Call? I have no idea what that means?

User Call of the trial option.

[joeqsmith]

Call? I have no idea what that means?

User Call of the trial option.

Sorry but that's not helpful.  I have no idea what Call means in this context.   

[tautech]

Call? I have no idea what that means?

User Call of the trial option.

Sorry but that's not helpful.  I have no idea what Call means in this context.

Is user Activate more helpful ?

While Trial uses are still available each activation reduces the remaining trial uses until there are no further free uses available when IIRC you are prompted to install a permanent license.

[joeqsmith]

Not really.

When does it ask?  Does it ask when I trigger?  Does it ask when I turn it on, run an FFT?