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| Looking for an audio analyzer |
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| 1audio:
FWIW here are directions for getting the EMU 1616/1212 running in current Win 10: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=529349 I can vouch that they do work, at least in my system. |
| Electro Fan:
--- Quote from: DaJMasta on January 10, 2017, 07:47:52 am ---Thanks for all the input so far, the discussion of the differences between the frontends of an audio analyzer vs. that of a soundcard have been helpful too. So that's the plan for now, a good interface coupled with rightmark and spectrum lab because they're free. Once I get a better feel for the software side and the measurements/data recording I want to do, I can invest as needed in a software suite. --- End quote --- I think you have been asking good questions. Fwiw, I think someone could download the free version of something like this and learn a lot with a sound card in a PC plus a minimal investment in a mic and phantom power supply. https://trueaudio.com/rta_selection_guide.htm Just follow the hardware suggestions. The free version will give way to a paid version and the little bit of entry hardware will cost still more, so this path is not free for long but it can be a good starting point. In a few days the test signal generation, sweeps, equalizations, and lots of measuring would likely be enlightening - which in turn would help navigate the rabbit hole. What I think you might find near the bottom of the rabbit whole is that you can have test equipment that would make Mr. Hewlett and Mr. Packard envious and you can design and build or buy exquisite hifi gear (speakers, amp, preamp, source players, etc) and you can work your butt off to get the measurements to coincide with what you are hearing and vice versa, but you will never fully get “there” until you address the listening room acoustics. All the gear inside the system is not the full system; the room is a MAJOR part of the system. And when you realize the dimensions and construction techniques needed to address the room the cost for all the test gear and hifi gear might start to look like just a moderate % of the room treatment costs. This is not to say there aren’t clever practical cost-effective solutions but rather that the sooner you see the impact the room has on the speakers (in concert with speaker and listening position placement) the sooner you will start to recognize the full scope of the rabbit hole. Once you settle in on speaker design that will inform some electronics requirements, and it can be an iterative process, of course. Good electronics and a good source player can reveal some pretty exciting nuances but the frequency response and spatial imaging (including the sense of “air”, “transparency”, “definition”, “detail”, “transient response”, “slam”, “boom”, yada yada) are all a result of eliminating distortions (especially distortive interactions) that have to be first managed at the speaker/room level before the electronics can fully do their magic on a more subtle level - all of which will be beholden to the reflections and nulls that will dictate timing interactions that will have both a coarse and a subtle impact on what reaches your ears - so the room must (should) be addressed before all the nuances can fully surface. If you get this far it will make you marvel at how all the original detailed content ever got captured on the source media in the first place. Overall it can be a very fun and rewarding journey. Of course hifi can be intrinsically rewarding without addressing any of this. Just install whatever hifi gear in some room and you can hear the Beatles and Beethoven. It’s just a matter of how accurately you want to reproduce the sound of what was recorded - how much high fidelity (faithfulness to the original) you want, and how much you want to measure and understand what causes what. Net, net: The suggestion on starting with the sound card, software, and mic is that it will (should) quickly show an experimenting user the impact of the room that is almost certainly going to be a major part of the system and the system’s performance. |
| CeeZett:
Hello guys, newbie here (but lurking around for years), first post. Recently I aquired a complete 1616m for quite cheap. Looks good from the outside. Seems hardly used. Plugged in the power supply (which BTW get`s freaking hot, is this normal?) and seems to work too. Currrently I am about to set up a laptop system for the EMU cardbus which came with it. I want to use it as an audio measurement system as discussed here. Took off the hood of the 1616m Microdock. Just so far that I can peak inside but have not (yet) completely disassembled it. Caps seem to look still okay too, at least as far as I can see but regardless I would want to change them ALL as they are ALL crap and at least those in the power-supply will ALL fail (sooner or later). I still don`t get it, how in an otherwise fine instrument, one could put in such a load of junk (and there are MANY caps inside). As some of You have already done excactly what I still intend to do, I would like to ask if someone could post a list of all the caps in the EMU-1616m Microdock with values (µF/voltage-rating) and if possible lead spacing as well? Would be really grateful as it would spare me to disassemble (+ figure this out myself) and reassemble the thing twice. |
| 1audio:
The 1616M is a remarkable product but having inadvertantly fried one its not easy to get back together. There are two independent sets of pin headers from top to bottom that must be correct or it will become toast. The caps are not great, however if it has seen little use changing them all out is a lot of hassle for little return. I'm sure the BOM for all those caps ($) had a lot of influence into the decisions. I think I collected most of the available reverse engineering on it. If asked I'll look for it. Someone worked out how to hack the firmware to get it to work on Win10. I have those notes somewhere. Finding a computer with a cardbus interface will not be easy. I use a desktop with the desktop interface. It has 6 channels of AK5394A ADC, the best performing ADC from AKM. It also has a plethora of JRC opamps that seem to be pretty good. The power supply should not be that hot. I got some generic 48V supplies that work fine as a substitute. |
| CeeZett:
Hello 1audio, I have read Your posts over at diyaudio about the EMU 1616 and took quite a few notes. :-+ Thanks for that and thanks for Your reply! Good to know, to have in mind and to take extra care about what You mentioned regarding the pin headers! Already yesterday I was almost about to dismantle the EMU - but wimped out... Yes, judged by the cosmetic appearance I think my EMU 1616 has seen little use but that does not mean much IMO. Could be it was just handled gently. And only a few days ago I had a failure with another oldie but goodie which I know was hardly used. A Terratec Phase X24 FW I still use occasionally. Although it is really old as well, I still like it a lot not only for it`s headamp and use it with my desktop PC (win7). However, have not used the Phase X24 a couple of years. Switched it on recently, it came on but did not work properly anymore (sound just stopped after a few minutes). Took it apart and the first thing I noticed was one cap in the power-supply already bulging. That was definitely not the case before, because when I got it, I opened it up, of course. That means the cap has gone bad meanwhile, even without using the gear. While I was at it, measured a few other caps. Some more dead or at least highly suspicious. IMO does not make much sense to change just the already obviously bad ones. Same as with the EMU, the only ones which could be kept in are the coupling caps, maybe, I believe. I am aware that changing the caps is a lot of work and it won`t be easy. More so as I don`t have a vacuum desoldering station. Would have to do it the "old way" with desoldering braid and/or manual desoldering pump. Maybe it is time to invest in a proper desoldering tool eventually... From what I have read, changing anything else besides the caps does not bring noticeable improvement, if at all. So I will leave it at that. >> Cardbus. Not long ago I bought a second Dell Latitude E6500 notebook just for the EMU and older software I still want to use. My first DELL I bought second hand >>10 years ago. Still in use and still going strong (for what I use it anyway). I love these DELLs. Today they are dirt cheap and go for only a couple of bucks. The EMU 1616m (+ Cardbus + 2 PCI cards + 2 Power supplies) + the DELL did cost me only slightly >100€ together. Not bad for something what could potentially almost rival an AP for audio stuff (minus of course the attenuators etc., etc. the AP has to offer). Installed dual-boot WinXP and Win7 on the DELL and deactivated all the stuff I don`t need. So no need for me to hassle around with Win10 (I really hate anything >Win7). I still need a lot of TRS cables for the 1616m though, which will cost me quite somewhat, even when soldering the cables myself. My 1616m came with 2 MEAN-WELL 18W/48V power-supplies. Both get hot. Measured the power consumption: 14-15W. So just shy of the rated 18W. Seems EMU cheaped out not only on caps but on the power-supply as well. Or maybe this is a sign that already something in the EMU Microdock does not work as it should (albeit it seems to work okay, as far as I can tell)? As I don`t like things running so hot, I will replace the Mean-Well with something more powerful and somewhat better specs wise, if possible. Maybe a PS with better specs (output ripple) can have an impact on overall quality as well. Maybe not. So, if nobody comes up for the EMU 1616m with something similar as on the attached picture (or a list of caps, so I can order parts, without having to disassemble the EMU first) I have done (precautionary) for the Phase X24-FW years ago, (unfortunately) I have to do it myself..... |
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