But first of all, I´ll send a offer request to batronix, it would be 3% off I guess.
But hey, taking all what you can get..
Looking forward to see how it fares. Thank you for the effort.QuoteBut first of all, I´ll send a offer request to batronix, it would be 3% off I guess.
But hey, taking all what you can get..
No discount at all, but it doesn´t worry me.
When it´s good, then it´s got excellent bang for bucks value(see first post).
If it fails (noise..), I´ll return it and got my money back.
Should arrive in 2 days...
Got the Information from DHL, the probe should arrive on wednesday.
@tautech: Probe is at work, will looking for, if the lecroy got the deskew function too.All half decent scopes have channel deskew. :P
All half decent scopes have channel deskew.
It's in Channel setup, in preprocessing, on the right..QuoteAll half decent scopes have channel deskew.
Never used this, so I must look at it. ;)
Next week is a short one due public holiday on thursday, so I have three days to "steal" a little bit time and some gear..
Goals are the mentioned comparison between tektronix 50Mhz clamp and the lecroy what accuracy, risetime/bandwith concerns.
Also I want to measure "real" high current and not turning windings through the clamp.
Well, we´ll see what happen.
Can you use the channel 1 deskew to see how much delay the MICSIG current probe inserts into the measurements ?
Does it meet the manufacturers propagation delay spec ?
Also Deskew is not set correctly
Negative pulse inaccuracy ?
QuoteAlso Deskew is not set correctly
As I said, I never used this before so any "hints" like yours are welcome. ;)
So on KS MSOX3000T you have to deskew current probe channel for max 100 ns , and then deskew rest of the channels in opposite direction (but all for same value to be in phase)
OK on this one ch3 is the current probe and trigger so now ch4 needs deskew adjusted to have it also at the 0s, 0V trigger crossing position. For really fine adjustments increase the timebase as required. ;)QuoteNegative pulse inaccuracy ?
No, forget to press "zero" before... :P
(Attachment Link)
Does the 5k also have the 100ns limit for deskew?+100ns
The much more expensive examples I´ve linked in the first post do not even give this value in their specs - Maybe for a good reason..
Update, the third... ;)
Couldn´t get the tek probe, therefore looking further to get the micsig back.
It´s still out of stock - But the cp2100A with "only" 800khz bandwith are in stock and therefore I´ve order one now.
Let´s see if this perform as well as the B version - If yes, it would be the best bang for bucks, as it only costs 180€ (excl. VAT).... 8)
Should arrive inbetween this week.
Martin
And at last I could test switching frequency - I got my deskew fixture....
QuoteAnd at last I could test switching frequency - I got my deskew fixture....
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
:( ::) :P
Small loop I could try to dremel a bit, large loop no chance I guess.
Fix for the single 147mA loop as below:QuoteAnd at last I could test switching frequency - I got my deskew fixture....
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)
:( ::) :P
Small loop I could try to dremel a bit, large loop no chance I guess.
OMG that sucks... |O
I guess we should press on with a design that is more universal...
If only my day had 48 hours... :'(
Batronix...Sometimes I think, they´re right aorund the next corner in my neighbourhood... 8)
(Attachment Link)
Luckywise, I must do some power tests in the next two weeks at work. I´ll "smuggle" the probe and take some "real" measurings in ac and dc, full current (instead of turning loops).
Also, the question pops up of how it handles high dc-current, if it gets magnetized after this - This I´ll test also.
For the forthcoming weekend I´ll test it on my fixture, expecting "sharper" waveforms as the cp2100a.
And still I´m very curious about the inside...but couldn´t find a point to open it without getting schratches - No screws in sight.
When I think about the owon crap, which costs only 40..50 bucks less than the 2100A....Boy what a difference.
Some pics..
QuoteSome pics..
It bothers me that I´ve send the a version back, would be interesting to know the difference ( same board), perhaps changing a few components will turn the a to the b.. ;)
QuoteSome pics..
It bothers me that I´ve send the a version back, would be interesting to know the difference ( same board), perhaps changing a few components will turn the a to the b.. ;)
QuoteSome pics..
It bothers me that I´ve send the a version back, would be interesting to know the difference ( same board), perhaps changing a few components will turn the a to the b.. ;)
On this PCB it says "CP2100A/B_DIG_V2X" so chances are good it's same board - but likely there's also circuitry in the clamp and that might be different.
Also couldn't find a single trimmer - so is the calibration done digitally(?)
Also couldn't find a single trimmer - so is the calibration done digitally(?)
QuoteAlso couldn't find a single trimmer - so is the calibration done digitally(?)
Quite interesting - Ask them for a service manual, of course, they gotn´t one.. ;)
When I think about the owon crap, which costs only 40..50 bucks less than the 2100A....Boy what a difference.
No kidding right? The clamp im too lazy to take apart.. ended up needing to use it so put it all back together lol
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/micsig-current-probe-cp2100b-tests-and-comparing/?action=dlattach;attach=1039024;image)
Just look how well curved that line is... not one bit of ringing, nothing to exciting just a 200Hz pwm for a coil
Trying to justify one of these for myself so trying to understand. A few questions:
1. Wouldn't you need to look at a much higher scope frequency to see any ringing?
2. On a typical solar inverter or SMPS would there typically be any place that large a probe would fit that would be worth while to see ringing?
When somebody else will buy a cp2100a, why not.
To be honest, I´ve played with the thoughts, buying the 2100a again and compare it to the b version.
Or trying to tear it down, especially the clamp, because there must be "more electronics" in it.
You can hear a relay switching, also the ammount of the leads coming from the clamp part are too less - Something must happen in the clamp part before...
Boy, imagine, this thing costs only 200/350 bucks...
Yeah there are more inside the clamp, notice the clamp gets both positive and negative power supplied to it... all those little wires are on top of the main signal wire that is shielded itself
It's more of an active probe head unit... pretty amazing for the cost, they should come out with active scope probes too if they can make them anything like their diff and current probes
Heads up, I'm going to sell the 2MHz unit and I just got stock ;D
Need to do a video of course, but will be offering a deal to my newsletter subscribers and Patrons and forum supporters shortly.
Should be able to beat other prices but that probably depends on your country.
Price will rise once my stock is gone, as MicSig gave me a deal on the batch of units.
Branded?
Yes, I will be able to post a photo inside the clamp head tomorrow, it is indeed an active head design.
Yes, I will be able to post a photo inside the clamp head tomorrow, it is indeed an active head design.Wtf, how could they do it for this price....
Remember, I´ve bought an owon cp-05+ clamp for 170 bucks...
It looses in every case and cost only 30 less.
I can offer the 2MHz CP2100B for US$365, MicSig sell it for US$499 on Aliexpress and US$599 on Amazon. Got them in stock now. Going to add them to my store today.
Yes, I will be able to post a photo inside the clamp head tomorrow, it is indeed an active head design.Wtf, how could they do it for this price....
Remember, I´ve bought an owon cp-05+ clamp for 170 bucks...
It looses in every case and cost only 30 less.
Yikes. No contest!
I can offer the 2MHz CP2100B for US$365, MicSig sell it for US$499 on Aliexpress and US$599 on Amazon. Got them in stock now. Going to add them to my store today.
Not sure if I'll bother to carry the CP2100A model?
BTW, this design was supposed to be 2.5MHz, and I have an early unit labels that. But they couldn't maintain this spec in production so dropped it to 2MHz.
I was wondering what the deal was with that 2 vs 2.5 floating around
Mine are all labeled as 2.5 on the control box, did they change that to 2? Or is it they call all of them actually to be 2 MHz and ignore the label? What are your units labeled as?
There are some on AliExpress at a much lower price than the official store, but I just wasn't willing to risk getting a factory second.
Ordered.ditto - I'm in Australia so my Internet sucks!
FYI, have just sent the link to my newsletter list of 10,000 people and Patreon, so the 50 units might not last long.
FYI, have just sent the link to my newsletter list of 10,000 people and Patreon, so the 50 units might not last long.
I got one, declined card, paid with paypal, then it said it didn't go through, then finally it said the order is processing so I can't submit it.
Hope for the best!
Got one, paid with Sripe and the transaction went through without problems (Mastercard). By the way I paid with Stripe because I suppose that the fees are better than PayPal, is that true? What payment method should we choose to maximize your profit?
The stripe USD to AUD conversion was more favorable for me. 535.38 AUD turned into 400 USD to for paypal and but only 385 USD with stripe(and Visa). I didn't know their fees were higher :(
Got one, paid with Sripe and the transaction went through without problems (Mastercard). By the way I paid with Stripe because I suppose that the fees are better than PayPal, is that true? What payment method should we choose to maximize your profit?
PayPal is 2.4%, stripe is 3.2%. I just offer both for convenience.
The stripe USD to AUD conversion was more favorable for me. 535.38 AUD turned into 400 USD to for paypal and but only 385 USD with stripe(and Visa). I didn't know their fees were higher :(
PayPal is 2.4%, stripe is 3.2%. I just offer both for convenience.International paypal?
https://www.ebayfeescalculator.com/au-paypal-calculator/ (https://www.ebayfeescalculator.com/au-paypal-calculator/)
has it at 3.6
PayPal is 2.4%, stripe is 3.2%. I just offer both for convenience.International paypal?
https://www.ebayfeescalculator.com/au-paypal-calculator/ (https://www.ebayfeescalculator.com/au-paypal-calculator/)
has it at 3.6
I just checked and it is 3.65%
I must be confusing it with something else.
Are the sensors accessible to read off the part number? I don't think this probe use a hall effect sensor, hall sensors don't have the bandwidth.
Are the sensors accessible to read off the part number? I don't think this probe use a hall effect sensor, hall sensors don't have the bandwidth.
They most likely use a TMR sensor made by Multi Dimension, something like this: https://www.aecsensors.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Magnetic-Tunnelling-Magnetoresistive-(TMR)-Linear-Sensors/pdfs/TMR2503-Datasheet-EN-V1.0.pdf (https://www.aecsensors.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/Magnetic-Tunnelling-Magnetoresistive-(TMR)-Linear-Sensors/pdfs/TMR2503-Datasheet-EN-V1.0.pdf)
I am unsure why they use two sensors. My best guess would be that the outputs are summed to improve SNR or to reduce the impact of stray magnetic field.
Looks like the design is a basic analog front end with a microcontroller for the user interface and auto zeroing, pretty similar to the current probe I am designing based on a higher bandwidth AMR sensor.
Full album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/albums/72157715635511053 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/albums/72157715635511053)
Uses an AD8421 inamp on the front end with dual hall effect sensors and relay switching.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50269030821_b2ac00535a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jA6VvX)Micsig CP2100B Current Probe Teardown (https://flic.kr/p/2jA6VvX) by Dave Jones (https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/), on Flickr
Not sure if I'll bother to carry the CP2100A model?
I got one, declined card, paid with paypal, then it said it didn't go through, then finally it said the order is processing so I can't submit it.
Hope for the best!
I have a new Stripe credit card option, a couple of cards have failed since I started it, no idea why, that's a Stripe thing.
There are no pending orders, so yours must be in there.
Still I can´t believe they´re so cheap to buy - Even when this clamp would costs three times more, the value for money would still be great.
Wow, just wow.
I wonder what the differences between the 800khz and 2Mhz versions are...and where.
Edit:Quote from: EEVblogNot sure if I'll bother to carry the CP2100A model?
Why not, it got the same incredible quality and with appx 200 buck it would be more affordable.
Looking for other brands, you won´t find 800khz bw under 1000 bucks and more.
Still I can´t believe they´re so cheap to buy - Even when this clamp would costs three times more, the value for money would still be great.
Wow, just wow.
I wonder what the differences between the 800khz and 2Mhz versions are...and where.
Edit:Quote from: EEVblogNot sure if I'll bother to carry the CP2100A model?
Why not, it got the same incredible quality and with appx 200 buck it would be more affordable.
Looking for other brands, you won´t find 800khz bw under 1000 bucks and more.
So get that A model and take some pictures :P
Really though i'd 99% bet on it being just some chippies OR.. more than likely it is this.. they are binning them. Why? Dave already said it himself.. they couldnt keep up with producing 2.5MHz rated versions... almost certainly means they were rebranding them as the lessor A model via binning. So you are really just paying for better quality parts
Also of interest there is a little known X version that was suppose to be rated for only up to 300 kHz
I would not be surprised if the most expensive parts of the whole thing was the nice plastic case and the custom mechanical components.
I wonder how closely the construction matches the Tek ones - they business end of those hasn't really changed since the 60s!
Oh, interesting....
Never saw it before, looks like a tek/hioki clone.
Noisefloor 1mVrms=10mArms, accuracy 3%.
Hm-hm...Interesting.QuoteI would not be surprised if the most expensive parts of the whole thing was the nice plastic case and the custom mechanical components.
If Micsig could pull out the technical design and real good building quality at such a low price, these "alternatives" are much more overpriced:
Rigol RP1002C (https://www.batronix.com/versand/messtechnik/tastkoepfe/Rigol-RP1002C.html) for 1886€
Testec TT-CC990 (https://www.batronix.com/versand/messtechnik/tastkoepfe/Testec-TT-CC-990.html) for 1178€
R&S RT-ZC02 (https://www.batronix.com/versand/messtechnik/tastkoepfe/Rohde-Schwarz-RT-ZC02.html) for 898€
Siglent CP4070A (https://www.siglent.eu/product/1141674/siglent-cp4070a-300-khz-200-amp-current-probe) for 842€
Trying to justify one of these for myself so trying to understand. A few questions:
1. Wouldn't you need to look at a much higher scope frequency to see any ringing?
2. On a typical solar inverter or SMPS would there typically be any place that large a probe would fit that would be worth while to see ringing?
That specifically was a dig at the CP-65 and clones of it.. yeah.. it rings at that low of a frequency x_x
I'd point you to watch this guy's review of it.. and yeah he kinda looks like he came from metallica lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC-S8WdfW0g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC-S8WdfW0g)
Wow, that's pretty bad it makes it to my house in Ca, USA before you.
Well it turns out the tracking info was bogus. I got home from a full day client meeting to find it on my bench. My wife had gone for a walk and collected it from the post office. I'll take it into the office tomorrow, but not sure when I will have a chance to test it out.
Well it turns out the tracking info was bogus. I got home from a full day client meeting to find it on my bench. My wife had gone for a walk and collected it from the post office. I'll take it into the office tomorrow, but not sure when I will have a chance to test it out.
Tracking in the last month since the whole Victorian thing has been completely screwed up for some reason.
Many people saying the tracking just says "Picked up" and then nothing, and then suddenly it just turns up (two weeks later for Victorians).
Just got mine in, thanks Dave!
Interesting nugget... I have serial number 31000-1166 from Dave and is dated 8/17/20 with the 2 MHz label, and my other one here is 31000-1161 dated 7/22/20 and is labeled 2.5 MHz
So looks like they cut over just after 1160s, i'll have to set something up to compare them sometime
Just got mine in, thanks Dave!
Interesting nugget... I have serial number 31000-1166 from Dave and is dated 8/17/20 with the 2 MHz label, and my other one here is 31000-1161 dated 7/22/20 and is labeled 2.5 MHz
So looks like they cut over just after 1160s, i'll have to set something up to compare them sometime
Just got mine in, thanks Dave!
Interesting nugget... I have serial number 31000-1166 from Dave and is dated 8/17/20 with the 2 MHz label, and my other one here is 31000-1161 dated 7/22/20 and is labeled 2.5 MHz
So looks like they cut over just after 1160s, i'll have to set something up to compare them sometime
Mine has a serial number of 31000-1523 and is labelled as 2MHz. Dated same as yours 2020-08-17.
After following the discussions and trying to decide if I should go with the A or B version, I decided for the economic more bang for the buck A-Version.
Last week I got it delivered so I wanted to check the performance myself. The results are almost too good to be true, so I would like to know if you agree with my test setup.
(Attachment Link)
SDG1032X as source, feeding a BNC-connector through 5 loops on the current probe clamp into 3x150 Ohms. SDS1204X-E Channel 1 Voltage of 50 Ohm load resistor, 10x Probe, Channel 4 CP2100A 2x (because of the 5 turn coil)
(Attachment Link)
During measurement, I maintained 2,50V RMS over the load resistor, and measured the current as RMS (nominal 50mA)
(Attachment Link)
This picture shows the voltage and current @800kHz, the nominal bandwidth of the CP2100A.
(Attachment Link)
To me this looks much better than the specs, is my setup suitable for bandwidth measurement?
I have a B model to compare. Did you re-adjust the SDG output at each level. I noticed the voltage across the resistor drops a little with frequency.Yes
HZ,current(RMS)ma
1 turn, 5 turns
50000,50,50
100000,48.6,48.7
200000,47.6
300000,48.1
400000,49.1
500000,49.6
600000,49.8
700000,48.8
800000,48.7,51.5
900000,48
1000000,47,50.2
1300000,44,52.2
2000000,37.7,42.6
2300000,35.6,40.9
2500000,34.6,40
3000000,33,38.2
3500000,31.9,37.0
4000000,33,38.4
4500000,31.2,38.4
5000000,23.5,31.7
6000000,10.7,13.1
Here's a B
It doesn't look a whole lot better.
# removed data #
Perhaps you can plot it with yours to compare. I only used a single pass through probe.
Yes, I was skeptical too, that’s why I put it up to discussion on your excellent forum!After following the discussions and trying to decide if I should go with the A or B version, I decided for the economic more bang for the buck A-Version.
Last week I got it delivered so I wanted to check the performance myself. The results are almost too good to be true, so I would like to know if you agree with my test setup.
(Attachment Link)
SDG1032X as source, feeding a BNC-connector through 5 loops on the current probe clamp into 3x150 Ohms. SDS1204X-E Channel 1 Voltage of 50 Ohm load resistor, 10x Probe, Channel 4 CP2100A 2x (because of the 5 turn coil)
(Attachment Link)
During measurement, I maintained 2,50V RMS over the load resistor, and measured the current as RMS (nominal 50mA)
(Attachment Link)
This picture shows the voltage and current @800kHz, the nominal bandwidth of the CP2100A.
(Attachment Link)
To me this looks much better than the specs, is my setup suitable for bandwidth measurement?
The bandwidth of the A model is 2.3MHz? :-//
Redid some data with 5 turns. See edit above. Maybe should toss the 1 turn for consistency.
Would be nice to see other A-type measurements (and also B ones)
working ok but its more a toy, but it has 10mA resolution...
Algasman
I'm not sure that multiple turns thru the clamp are within the spec. Sure it makes it work better as I show here:Redid some data with 5 turns. See edit above. Maybe should toss the 1 turn for consistency.
But how many turns? Where would you stop. I now think the 5 turn should be dropped and if you re-did with just 1 time thru the clamp your results would match the spec.
So asked the Ali sellers (found 2 with below 140€) some questions and it looks like "better don't touch!"
1. Thing the devices are without official case.
2. I asked them if these parts are genuine and no production "garbage". If they met the official specification...
Both seller replied in a "talk around the corner" style :-D Don't know the exact english synonym for this speaking style..
The first replied nothing uptil now, only that it is without the case.
The second one replied "I can confirm the item will be the same as you can see on ads".
So both didn't say anything about genuine or specification... Maybe they didn't know... Or they knew and will not reply in an useable way (because they knew... ;-))
But without case / maybe without calibration sheet the devices are likely "production garbage / fake ones"...
I will order from Batronix i think. 5% off is possible if you ask for it....
So asked the Ali sellers (found 2 with below 140€) some questions and it looks like "better don't touch!"
1. Thing the devices are without official case.
2. I asked them if these parts are genuine and no production "garbage". If they met the official specification...
Both seller replied in a "talk around the corner" style :-D Don't know the exact english synonym for this speaking style..
The first replied nothing uptil now, only that it is without the case.
The second one replied "I can confirm the item will be the same as you can see on ads".
So both didn't say anything about genuine or specification... Maybe they didn't know... Or they knew and will not reply in an useable way (because they knew... ;-))
But without case / maybe without calibration sheet the devices are likely "production garbage / fake ones"...
I will order from Batronix i think. 5% off is possible if you ask for it....
But how many turns? Where would you stop.It depends on the device under test, putting the clamp around a conductor influences the DUT more or less. It’s the transformer rules you have to take into account. One can do as many turns needed as to get a good S/N ratio as long as the influence to the DUT is acceptable.
...
Regarding bicyleguys questionQuoteBut how many turns? Where would you stop.It depends on the device under test, putting the clamp around a conductor influences the DUT more or less. It’s the transformer rules you have to take into account. One can do as many turns needed as to get a good S/N ratio as long as the influence to the DUT is acceptable.
Pretty much as if a shunt resistor is inserted to use the voltage drop to measure the current. This burden voltage also influences the DUT. The reason why Dave designed the uCurrent Gold to keep this influence as small as possible.
What I was getting at is this thread is about comparing the performance of various probes against each other, including A vs B Micsigs. It doesn't make any sense to compare A with 5 turns vs B with 0. Seems that the best is to compare no turns on every probe.Right, comparison makes only sense if the conditions are equal. That’s what we did.
The official manual for the CP2100 does not give any noise values. Has anyone measured values for the peak to peak and RMS noise values for the probe?I finally had the chance to measure noise (empty clamp).
I´ve used the averaging function of my scope in that range (or below, 20mA/div), then it works pretty well.
Still my probe is at work and at last, I´ll do some real measurements next week, working on a power inverter.
Last friday done a quick test, using a fluke87V and an bnc adaptor - Under 10A it got a remarkable accuracy in comparison to a ZES LMG670 poweranalyzer.
Will check this further, posting the results here.
Although I´m very confident with it, this one still makes me curious:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32827427938.html
Good, it will cost nearly double but still miles away from the stuff of hioki and it´s "brands"....
What makes me curious is that this that this probe and all the fancy ones have a degaussing function whereas our Micsig and the other economy probes have not.
If it is so important to get rid of the residual magnetization shouldn’t the economy probes also be degaussed from time to time.
If yes, how?
There are some treads regarding ut210e. You mean the tread with the solder gun?
See the uni-t ut210e clampmeter thread, there are several possibilities described or look for a watch-demagnetizer in ebay or amazon ( should also work).
Will put the values in a table, post them later in the weekend.
Looks nice, but if the stated sensitivity is true, then you get only 20mV at full scale with ~1mV RMS noise on top. I hope that’s not true.
You have to distinguish two facts:
1. the current probe has a physical signal delay, which is a constant delay as specified in the specs (here <150ns)
2. the phase-shift or phase-error is a function of frequency due to the signal processing chain (filters and more...)
You can compensate the constant signal delay i.e. by the CHskew setting of your scope - this is correct.
However, the phase-shift you can hardly compensate - only in the case you work with simple CW signals like a pure sinusoid.
As soon as you are dealing with complex signals like i.e. a square-wave you get a signal composed of harmonically related sinusoids with different frequencies (see Fourier series).
Your measured signal of the probe will get shifted and distorted due to the phase-shift error vs. frequency.
In that case you hardly can compensate the phase-shift of each sinusoid component and your procedure as described will not work anymore.
Apologies, waking up an old post...
Can anybody help translate MicSig's specified Accuracy, identical language for CP2100A & B. It's entitled "DC accuracy" but then uses "Apk" which I assume means "Amperes Peak", which wouldn't be DC.
DC accuracy (typical)
3%±50mA (10A) {I'm guessing this line is DC, on 10A range, but no equivalent for 100A range}
4%±50mA(100A,500mA~40Apk) {maybe AC accuracy if Amps peak is <40Amps, up to bandwidth limit .8 or 2Mhz}
15%(100A,40Apk~100Apk) {maybe AC accuracy if Amps peak is >40Amps, up to BW .8 or 2Mhz. saturation of steel core?? so reads lower than reality}