Author Topic: Micsig scopes and segmented memory  (Read 4098 times)

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Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« on: September 30, 2023, 04:05:51 pm »
Hello, I was planning on buying a Micsig STO1004 but I realized it doesn't have segmented memory. From the searches Ive done only the old models STO2000C have that feature, but the scope is unavailable.
Micsig website information is not to clear about it.

Does anyone knows what new models from Micsig includes Segmented memory?

Thank you
 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2023, 04:16:30 pm »
TO-series from ATO2004 & TO2004 and up..
« Last Edit: September 30, 2023, 09:44:10 pm by DaneLaw »
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2023, 06:55:23 pm »
TO-series from TO2004..

Thank you for sharing. So only the tablet scopes had the Segmented memory, I'm more interested in a scope with touch screen and buttons like the STO family, I see I have to think a little more about this purchase
 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2023, 10:08:35 pm »
TO-series from TO2004..

Thank you for sharing. So only the tablet scopes had the Segmented memory, I'm more interested in a scope with touch screen and buttons like the STO family, I see I have to think a little more about this purchase
Yep, I'm not familiar with Segmented memory in any of the lower-end entry scopes from Micsig.
Migsig sadly moved away from knobs on both A/TO & ETO series and even their quite popular STOxxxxC/E series went from rotary knobs to 4way-joysticks but I reckon Micsig are starting to realize, even though they have a great optimized touch interface, people still value knobs on scopes.

They have a new model coming to market, called "MDO" which should arrive in December 2023, but that release date aint written in stone so take it with a pinch of salt, and as far as I can tell it's their ETO model just been refitted with knobs.
Micsig's ETO-model is an expensive model I don't recall seeing sold officially anywhere outside of China, and not cheap +3K..more or less their flagship, and the same goes for MDO which would likely have segmented memory with a physical button interface but obviously another price segment.
MDO model https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-micsig-scope-with-knobs-(again)/msg4854149/#msg4854149

The Micsig STO2xxx? units with segmented memory, wasn't it only 2 channel models and not any 4 channel units? like STO2202C & STO2302C (both 2 ch.)

example of Migsigs segmented memory..


 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2023, 08:51:12 pm »
TO-series from TO2004..

Thank you for sharing. So only the tablet scopes had the Segmented memory, I'm more interested in a scope with touch screen and buttons like the STO family, I see I have to think a little more about this purchase
Yep, I'm not familiar with Segmented memory in any of the lower-end entry scopes from Micsig.
Migsig sadly moved away from knobs on both A/TO & ETO series and even their quite popular STOxxxxC/E series went from rotary knobs to 4way-joysticks but I reckon Micsig are starting to realize, even though they have a great optimized touch interface, people still value knobs on scopes.

They have a new model coming to market, called "MDO" which should arrive in December 2023, but that release date aint written in stone so take it with a pinch of salt, and as far as I can tell it's their ETO model just been refitted with knobs.
Micsig's ETO-model is an expensive model I don't recall seeing sold officially anywhere outside of China, and not cheap +3K..more or less their flagship, and the same goes for MDO which would likely have segmented memory with a physical button interface but obviously another price segment.
MDO model https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-micsig-scope-with-knobs-(again)/msg4854149/#msg4854149

The Micsig STO2xxx? units with segmented memory, wasn't it only 2 channel models and not any 4 channel units? like STO2202C & STO2302C (both 2 ch.)

example of Migsigs segmented memory..



I'm trying to contact Micsig about their scopes since last friday, through website and AliExpress and haven't got a response. Are they in trouble? or simply don't care about inquirie?
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2023, 10:13:42 pm »
All of China is on a holiday this week
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2023, 11:55:09 pm »
example of Migsigs segmented memory..

I definitely don't have that on my STO1104C.
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2023, 12:15:32 am »
All of China is on a holiday this week

ok so that's the reason, I'll wait then. thanks
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2023, 12:19:29 am »
example of Migsigs segmented memory..

I definitely don't have that on my STO1104C.

i don't understand why they didn't include the feature on this model. it's really usefull specially when we need to find an injector misfiring
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2023, 08:59:24 am »
So, I got an answer today from Micsig and currently only TO2004, TO3004, ATO2004 and ATO3004 have segmented memory
 

Offline maralb

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2023, 11:27:07 am »
Here is a detailed review of the TO3004 (in German language) which also describes the use of segmented memory (at around 26min40sec).

https://youtu.be/fucKMSQPp0M?si=Tb4TuH96lwpLSK8o
« Last Edit: October 09, 2023, 08:05:19 am by maralb »
 
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Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2023, 07:56:43 am »
Here is a detailed review of the TO3004 (in German language) which also describes the use of segemented memory (at around 26min40sec).

https://youtu.be/fucKMSQPp0M?si=Tb4TuH96lwpLSK8o

Useful video indeed, I think I'll go for TO2004, TO3004 seems to have some fan noise problems.
Anyone knows a good online store to buy this scope on Europe? also a discount coupon would be nice.
 

Offline maralb

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2023, 08:09:07 am »
The TO2004 would be my choice too for the same reason.

https://eleshop.eu/micsig-oscilloscopes.html

https://www.batronix.com/shop/micsig/TO.html

I think you can't go wrong with these shops.
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2023, 10:45:15 am »
The TO2004 would be my choice too for the same reason.

https://eleshop.eu/micsig-oscilloscopes.html

https://www.batronix.com/shop/micsig/TO.html

I think you can't go wrong with these shops.
Thank you!
Batronix are selling a TO2004 PLUS? Micsig doesn't have a plus model! What version is this? do you know?
 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2023, 01:15:32 pm »
The TO2004 would be my choice too for the same reason.

https://eleshop.eu/micsig-oscilloscopes.html

https://www.batronix.com/shop/micsig/TO.html

I think you can't go wrong with these shops.
Thank you!
Batronix are selling a TO2004 PLUS? Micsig doesn't have a plus model! What version is this? do you know?
Its a model with a single incl. battery... (scope with 1 battery)
take the batronix "plus" with a pinch of salt.. all models are "plus" as in a Micsig scope with its corresponding 1x battery.
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2023, 02:50:53 pm »
The TO2004 would be my choice too for the same reason.

https://eleshop.eu/micsig-oscilloscopes.html

https://www.batronix.com/shop/micsig/TO.html

I think you can't go wrong with these shops.
Thank you!
Batronix are selling a TO2004 PLUS? Micsig doesn't have a plus model! What version is this? do you know?
Its a model with a single incl. battery... (scope with 1 battery)
take the batronix "plus" with a pinch of salt.. all models are "plus" as in a Micsig scope with its corresponding 1x battery.

Ok thanks
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2023, 09:07:30 am »
Here it is the official response from Micsig

 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2023, 02:03:31 pm »
As explained the "Plus" signifies a battery.. and seems to be third-party Chananagang
Maybe a dated term from when some were sold without batteries.
All Batronix Micsig-models. are labeled with the "plus" label  https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-tBook.html

And it's not just "Batronix" that confuses possible customers (like you) with labels like these, it's also used in China, among Chinese resellers, on fx Aliexpress & likewise. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000468919797.html?  and  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005679680623.html

I don't recall I have seen Micsig operate with it officially, so could simply be down to third-party vendors jack'ng of consumers, "it's a "plus" model with a strap-on (hand strap) battery, mat screen protector etc. -  in the hope they choose them, instead of other resellers, simply because that listing got the "plus" label - as "plus" gotta be better than other models without the "plus".

 
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2023, 02:55:10 pm »
As explained the "Plus" signifies a battery.. and seems to be third-party Chananagang
Maybe a dated term from when some were sold without batteries.
All Batronix Micsig-models. are labeled with the "plus" label  https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-tBook.html

And it's not just "Batronix" that confuses possible customers (like you) with labels like these, it's also used in China, among Chinese resellers, on fx Aliexpress & likewise. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000468919797.html?  and  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005679680623.html

I don't recall I have seen Micsig operate with it officially, so could simply be down to third-party vendors jack'ng of consumers, "it's a "plus" model with a strap-on (hand strap) battery, mat screen protector etc. -  in the hope they choose them, instead of other resellers, simply because that listing got the "plus" label - as "plus" gotta be better than other models without the "plus".

Marketing thing, I understand, but annoying when it's necessary to make choices and time is short. Anyway TO2004 is on my list for the moment. There's not much offers on tablet scopes or battery operated scopes from other brands, I haven't found one tablet scope that could do bode plotting. If I buy the Micsig I'll have to manual bode plot like in the old days and that's kind of annoying, or i could try Dave's approach like he showed on YouTube many years ago. I don't do alot of BP but some times is necessary. I know there's other brands with better and more complete options, but they're not battery operated. Well decisions, decisions....
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2023, 05:50:47 pm »
As explained the "Plus" signifies a battery.. and seems to be third-party Chananagang
Maybe a dated term from when some were sold without batteries.
All Batronix Micsig-models. are labeled with the "plus" label  https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Micsig-tBook.html

And it's not just "Batronix" that confuses possible customers (like you) with labels like these, it's also used in China, among Chinese resellers, on fx Aliexpress & likewise. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000468919797.html?  and  https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005679680623.html

I don't recall I have seen Micsig operate with it officially, so could simply be down to third-party vendors jack'ng of consumers, "it's a "plus" model with a strap-on (hand strap) battery, mat screen protector etc. -  in the hope they choose them, instead of other resellers, simply because that listing got the "plus" label - as "plus" gotta be better than other models without the "plus".

Marketing thing, I understand, but annoying when it's necessary to make choices and time is short. Anyway TO2004 is on my list for the moment. There's not much offers on tablet scopes or battery operated scopes from other brands, I haven't found one tablet scope that could do bode plotting. If I buy the Micsig I'll have to manual bode plot like in the old days and that's kind of annoying, or i could try Dave's approach like he showed on YouTube many years ago. I don't do alot of BP but some times is necessary. I know there's other brands with better and more complete options, but they're not battery operated. Well decisions, decisions....

For sake of completeness, there are also standard battery handhelds not in tablet factor. For instance Siglent has SHS800X and SHS1000X series.
Fully featured scopes (with all time running history mode and segmented mode, serial decoding etc) and scopemeter (with built in multimeter). It also has 1 MPts FFT. Meter has trend function for data logging.. And many other things. Datasheet is available for details.

One very interesting thing about SHS1000X is that channels are ISOLATED between each other and FLOATING...
They are also quite rugged. Other manufacturers have similar models (I mention these specifically  because I'm familiar with them)
Micsig tablets have common ground on a chassis, all BNC and USB are connected together... Don't make it explode...


One note about Micsig. Even those Micsigs that have segmented mode have that mode only for show. You can manually go screen to screen and look at the signal shape. There are no tools to search, measure or decode or similar form such segmented data. That makes segmented mode pretty much useless for any thing than few screens and simple visual comparisons..
For instance, on my Keysight I can capture 100 individual I2C packets to 100 segmented captures and decode from all of them in single interface. Or search for edge, pulse or other searches on al that data. Same with Siglents I have.

It is not clear and documented that you can do anything like that on Micsig with segments, apart from visually browsing through screens or overlaying them all on top of each other...


"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2023, 08:46:47 pm »
Manual explanation
page 213 chapter 10.5 (or just hit ctrl + f and search)
https://www.micsig.com/uploads/Userguide_en_us_1692588129.pdf

If you want isolated channels in a small compact rugged unit.. you need to look at these small 2 ch. handhelds from the older era with ltd depth & features' which would be tiresome as..to use as one's daily portable/bench scope, and not a 400 buck tablet jobby.
Dave, looked at one of Micsig's older models with Isolated channels.



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https://www.eyou.com.au/1965/
« Last Edit: October 10, 2023, 08:58:44 pm by DaneLaw »
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2023, 10:13:07 pm »
At the moment I'm using scopes for automotive troubleshooting.
Sensors, Ecu's, solenoids, etc. One of the situations were segmented memory is really useful is in detecting injector random misfires, if the scope has enough memory I'm also able to do long capture times but searching through all the collected data is a little boring.

 I prefer to use tablet format and have bigger screen size, don't care much about channels being isolated because i don't use them in risky situations. BUT portability is a top priority.

Sometimes I use a siglent sds1104x-e with a 600w battery pack in cases where AC isn't available and i need 4ch and segmented memory, but it's not much practical.  A tablet is better. A handheld scope have a small screen and my eyesight are not the same as it used to be.

I don't use scopes on a single area of work, i might use them in auto business, computers business, etc

I don't do any RF work at present time like i used to do, so no need for high bandwidth scopes.

I always try to select a scope with the most features available, even if i don't need them at present time. IF i didn't have the need of portability, I for sure will choose a bench scope with more features available for the same price. Of course Micsig scope are expensive for the features they offer, but they sell Tablet scopes. I don't understand why companies like Rigol, Siglent, don't release a tablet scope, even owon did it.
 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2023, 12:49:12 am »
... Of course Micsig scope are expensive for the features they offer, but they sell Tablet scopes. I don't understand why companies like Rigol, Siglent, don't release a tablet scope, even owon did it.
How are they expensive for the features you get?
when I did my due diligence, they were surprisingly cheap for all the features you get, no other entry-scope had the same feature palette out of the box.

... Anyway TO2004 is on my list for the moment.
- if you wanna use it for automobiles, why do you go after TO2004? better optimised models for that purpose, as I emphasized above.
 

Offline ptluisTopic starter

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2023, 09:17:34 am »
Quote from: DaneLaw
link=topic=394981.msg5106657#msg5106657 date=1696985352


... Anyway TO2004 is on my list for the moment.
- if you wanna use it for automobiles, why do you go after TO2004? better optimised models for that purpose, as I emphasized above.

Are you referring to ATO series? or handheld scope? Handheld I don't want, to small screen and right now I'm looking for tablet format. The ATO series, I don't need the preset auto features tests because I know what I'm looking for and how to setup, so saving 200-300€ difference. An OBD scanner will do most of the tests the ATO series include as auto tests. So no need for that.
 

Offline DaneLaw

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Re: Micsig scopes and segmented memory
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2023, 10:56:44 am »
Yep, it was the ATO2004 I referred to.

ATO2000 series https://www.micsig.com/uploads/Userguide_US_en_1677490530.pdf

sheet.. some of the auto test.



« Last Edit: October 11, 2023, 11:01:29 am by DaneLaw »
 


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