Author Topic: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000  (Read 71061 times)

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2016, 11:36:18 pm »
Got it this afternoon - played for a few mins then took it apart.
Initial impressions pretty good. Internals pretty impressive ( more so than the casing) , in both design & build.

The same can't be said for their terrible, confusing ALIexpress shop pages.

First scope I've seen that has stereo speakers!


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Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2016, 12:08:44 am »
Looking forward to the video!  :popcorn:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2016, 01:41:48 am »
Quote
It looks very light and with the probs connected at the top there is a good chance the thing could topel over forward. 
Probes are on the side
[/quote]
Actually they're on the top on the one I have - not sure if it's a different model or different revision to the pics I saw, also mine has a micro HDMI - I'm sure some of the pics show a standard or mini one  - the Aliexpress store pages are extremely confusing about the various models & variants - need to take a good look through to try figuring it out.
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Offline hgjdwx

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Online MasterTech

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2016, 06:13:22 am »
Got it this afternoon - played for a few mins then took it apart.
Initial impressions pretty good. Internals pretty impressive ( more so than the casing) , in both design & build.

The same can't be said for their terrible, confusing ALIexpress shop pages.

First scope I've seen that has stereo speakers!
What model did you get ? 70mhz or 100? 4 channels or 2?
Im thinking of getting the 4ch 70mhz Model, and maybe in a future thread we should study the hackability from 70 to 100...
 

Offline Blueprint

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2016, 08:44:49 am »
it's easy to use, and movable to any where. I like it tBook!!!
 

Online Howardlong

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2016, 11:57:47 am »
Mine just arrived, a TO1104 from Batronix, 4ch 100MHz 28Mpts WiFi version.

I'm out at a customer at the moment so not much chance to play. It's about the same dimensions and weight of a 350 page reference book. Very first impressions are: (a) the fan is quite noisy, but that doesn't normally bother me too much, and (b) the screen updating and UI don't seem particularly fast, but so far it is responsive (there's a difference!). For very basic functionality the UI is reasonably intuitive to use. For some things like zooming it has its own multi-finger gestures which aren't immediately obvious, I needed to RTFM to find the three finger zooming gesture, but once you know they're easy to use.

As well as a reasonably healthy discount Batronix threw in a non-autoranging UT151 multimeter which I can't see finding its way out of the box let alone being used. The one I have included strap, battery and WiFi. I haven't figured out how to attach the strap yet: threading the velcro through the holes looks like an exercise in logistics.

My ten minutes with it suggest it's not bad, but I'll reserve judgement until I've used it in anger for an hour or two on a real project.
 

Offline lukier

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2016, 04:21:52 pm »
There seems to be quite large price difference between 2.8 MPts and 28 MPts versions.  I wonder if the (I assume) DDR SDRAM is populated on the 2.8 version anyway and requires some option key, or even if not, it might be possible to solder the missing chips.

I get the point of optional features that required considerable effort to develop & test, protocol triggers and decoders, analysis software, but some extra memory, that was in the design from day one? The only mass produced memory I know that would cost so much for 25 MB would be probably Xeon v4 on die L3 cache.
 

Online Howardlong

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2016, 07:39:12 pm »
FWIW it appears to be reasonably locked down. I may well be mistaken, but I haven't seen any obvious way of even pointing the browser to anything but the micsig website, or installing APKs for example. I'm assuming it's Android under the hood, but ISTBC.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2016, 07:52:51 pm »
Do all of the Micsig oscilloscopes have isolated inputs? Also the cheaper entry-level series?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2016, 08:24:35 pm »
FWIW it appears to be reasonably locked down. I may well be mistaken, but I haven't seen any obvious way of even pointing the browser to anything but the micsig website, or installing APKs for example. I'm assuming it's Android under the hood, but ISTBC.
Not sure if it's Android or Linux - it's pretty well hidden. Forgot to look for serial port on PCB.
There is an FTP port open, and for the hardcore hackers, the onboard flash is an eMMc

1 hour video currently rendering - should be up in a few hours if Vegas doesn't crash

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2016, 08:26:28 pm »
Do all of the Micsig oscilloscopes have isolated inputs? Also the cheaper entry-level series?
AFAIUI none of the tablet ones do, apart from the isolation of running it from battery
Something I thought to try then thought better of  was to  float the scope ground to mains and see how well the touchscreen worked ;D
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Online Howardlong

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2016, 08:28:21 pm »
Do all of the Micsig oscilloscopes have isolated inputs? Also the cheaper entry-level series?

Not on the TO1104 I have. Be aware that there is also a 1k ohm impedance to earth on the supplied mains PSU which uses a three pin IEC kettle lead.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2016, 08:57:26 pm »
Which distributors in Europe carry the isolated ones? Batronix only carries the entry-level model AFAIK.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2016, 09:35:04 pm »
Do all of the Micsig oscilloscopes have isolated inputs? Also the cheaper entry-level series?

Not on the TO1104 I have. Be aware that there is also a 1k ohm impedance to earth on the supplied mains PSU which uses a three pin IEC kettle lead.
Well spotted - I looked at the cracked-open PSU and assumed it was directly connected. There is a resistor and parallel capacitor, probably better than a direct connection, and certainly better than floating at half mains from an ungrounded PSU.
Interestingly the PSU is rated at 2x the maximum draw when running and charging a flat battery - I wonder if they chose this as it had the 3-pin input, whereas smaller ones often are only 2-pin.
Or could just be they use the same PSU for the 10" version which has a 10AH battery so maybe higher charge current.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2016, 11:01:30 pm »
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2016, 12:35:47 am »
I haven't figured out how to attach the strap yet: threading the velcro through the holes looks like an exercise in logistics.

Folding a length of sticky tape over the end of the strap, with some bit of overhang for easy poking through has helped me at times on other straps. Not actually tried it with Velcr though.
Mine came already threaded, though it was listed seperately on the packing note. Possible they did it as they knew it was me....
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Offline lukier

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2016, 12:36:55 am »
Mike: bummer that they gave you non-M version ;), now we won't know how to update 2.8M versions to 28M.

Internally it looks very well, a child of Rigol DS1054Z (ADC, Spartan-6) and Android tablet :)

Rigol, AFAIR, has additional Cypress SRAM attached to the FPGA, presumably to render the intensity grading. Here either they have beefier FPGA version (more BRAM), or maybe the CPU is doing more, as it is significantly more powerful than cheapo Freescale iMX that Rigol has.

If they stop being silly about the $7 options and add serial trigger/decode then this is a very serious competition for Rigol. I bet a lot of hobbyists would pay a bit extra and have a scope that can be used both on the bench and in the field.
 

Offline G33KatWork

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2016, 01:00:07 am »
I just quickly glanced over the firmware update files they offer on their website for the TO1104 because I was curious what operating system they are using.

The files seem to be encrypted using AES ECB. The entropy is pretty high. Only in the first few kilobytes the same 16-byte pattern repeats over and over again.
There are a few exceptions in this block where the pattern changes. But it does so always on a 16 byte boundary which leads me to believe that they use a 128 bit block cipher in ECB mode just for the purpose of obfuscation. AES is just a guess, but what other block cipher would you use?

So, somebody should dump the eMMC.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2016, 01:14:29 am »
I suspect Android, but fairly well hidden - the larger ones definitely are as I've seen an Android logo onscreen in an old review.
Forgot to look for a serial header - will take a look when I get a chance.
There is an FTP service which may be worth investigating.
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Online Howardlong

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2016, 09:39:05 am »
Watched the first 20 mins on my commute this morning, and I'm feeling slightly dejected, mine came without condoms.

I find the tilting bale is too stiff to open easily, you need both hands on mine to set it up.

Having the probes coming out of the top is less convenient than out of the side, I find the resulting cable management less than optimum. It also makes the effective height on the bench quite a bit higher, so if you have a monitor on the bench you will find either the probes get in the way or you have to move the scope or monitor off to the side.

I totally agree regarding the confusion around models, versions and options. You need to do quite a bit of digging to come to any reasonable conclusion.

I was debugging a reluctant SWD interface on a Cortex M0 with it last night. I do like the touch zoom when navigating a long waveform capture.

Serial trigger and decode would be a great option.

Boot speed even from a cold boot is good, 15s or so. From standby it's pretty much instant.

I'd like to see any recommendations for a close-fitting protective sleeve which isn't too bulky and has probe pockets.

Sorry if some of my comments are already covered in Mike's video, I haven't seen the last 40 mins yet.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2016, 10:06:31 am »
I find the tilting bale is too stiff to open easily, you need both hands on mine to set it up.
Yes, it is fiddly - definitely could be improved - just some grip ridges on the sides would help
Quote
Having the probes coming out of the top is less convenient than out of the side, I find the resulting cable management less than optimum. It also makes the effective height on the bench quite a bit higher, so if you have a monitor on the bench you will find either the probes get in the way or you have to move the scope or monitor off to the side.

On balance I think top is better as side would constrain where you could put it - space upwards is generally more free than space at sides. You could always get some BNC right-angle adaptors.
Quote
I'd like to see any recommendations for a close-fitting protective sleeve which isn't too bulky and has probe pockets.
They do actually do a carry-case - didn't look to see which model it's for bit it's crazy expensive, like about £60
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Online Howardlong

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2016, 10:58:15 am »
I'd like to see any recommendations for a close-fitting protective sleeve which isn't too bulky and has probe pockets.
They do actually do a carry-case - didn't look to see which model it's for bit it's crazy expensive, like about £60

ISTR the dimensions are rather out of kilter with the scope's size, although I'd probably pay to see you turning up on site with your handbag:

"Handbag?Black nylon dimension 300mm*410mm*130mm"

Regarding the probes coming out of the top, it's a minor thing but as well as getting in the way of the telly, I found the probe cables ended up draping themselves over the front of the screen. Not a big deal to flop them around the back, but it just didn't seem the optimum position for them.

I did measure the trigger out last night, and most of the time despite advertising 80kWfm/s it was usually much lower than this, about 2kWfm/s. It did, on brief occasions, hit 70kWfm/s but that was the exception rather than the norm. Please note that this was only a brief test, although I did try to optimise the test signal and the scope configuration to maximise update rate. Removing measurements and switching to dots, for example, made a very significant difference.
 

Offline davidefa

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2016, 12:31:37 pm »
I received yesterday my TO1074 unit ( from batterfly ). Including:
- battery ( as specified )
- wlan option ( not specified as included, maybe a limited demo? )
- hdmi option ( not specified as included, maybe a limited demo? )
It didn't include the strap ( need to find an alternative strap ), not specified as included, but a scope like this need to include one

ftp access: user ftp, password ftp
telnet access: user root, password micsig ( not that difficult ;-)

interesting files are in /home/micsig directory

Software improvements:
- protocols decoding
- segmented memory ( and good searching options )
- data recording directly on disk ( low speed is ok )
- last... yes I have a dream ( that will never come true )... a software toolkit/plugin/scripting language/something else... to write my own software that extends the scope software

P.S. my software version is 6.0.125 in micsig site found that last is 6.0.204beta, but reluctant to upgrade, no changelog provided
What is your software version ( in Mike's video I see a few options missing in mine )?

Regards

 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2016, 01:23:00 pm »
Mine is 6.11.0.186

Quite a few option links on the bottom, would be interesting to compare different models.
Bottom row are definitely options as they are pull up/down.
Larger one next to "B" ilooks like a power disconnect link 
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