Author Topic: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000  (Read 65623 times)

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Offline tautech

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #225 on: July 08, 2017, 01:48:19 am »
F&C
I never realised there was no manual for these units, I just imagined it would have been on a CD included in the package. I realise you've just got yours but a rumble through the menus should be able to find the Self Cal.
In Siglents it's in a Utilities menu.
It's standard for ALL test equipment to have been warmed up for a while before any Self Cal or internal adjustments.

Let's say you want to take a precise measurement............do it with a cold instrument, NO WAY.
The internals all need to be at some uniform temp, a temp that has generally been reached after ~30 mins operation. Old Service manuals state the requirement for operating temps to be reached before adjustment or accuracy that can be relied on. Cal Certs also have the temp stated on the cert so that results can be replicated.
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Online TK

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #226 on: July 08, 2017, 01:59:30 am »
Self calibration is called Self Adjust.  Pull down the menu, click Userset, then Self Adjust.  It will show a message "SelfCalibrate is running..."
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #227 on: July 08, 2017, 02:05:56 am »
Self calibration is called Self Adjust.  Pull down the menu, click Userset, then Self Adjust.  It will show a message "SelfCalibrate is running..."
Plus 'Remove all input connections' ?
Trap for learners.  ;)
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #228 on: July 08, 2017, 10:21:55 am »
Channel 2 is on AC coupling and your square wave is 50Hz so what you see is normal because 50Hz is way below the minimal AC coupling frequency.
Is it really? I could not find the AC coupling lower frequency limit in either the manual or the datasheet, but that would surprise me. Usually the lower limit is well below 50 Hz (7 Hz in 1 MOhm mode on a random Tek scope). So much for using AC coupling to measure ripple, then.
With a -3dB point at 7Hz you'll start seeing the effects at 70Hz.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #229 on: July 08, 2017, 01:36:29 pm »
Self calibration is called Self Adjust.  Pull down the menu, click Userset, then Self Adjust.  It will show a message "SelfCalibrate is running..."
Plus 'Remove all input connections' ?
Trap for learners.  ;)

I waited for 30 minutes and did the Self Adjust. Here are the results. What do you think? I have the following two observations:

1. It looks like a new issue came out which did not happen before. i.e. some horizontal lines became dotted lines. See the two green lines at the bottom (on channel 4) for example.
2. In Channel 1, the yellow horizontal lines are not very straight.

Channel 1:  https://ibb.co/kT8Wpa
Channel 2:  https://ibb.co/eYMUaF
Channel 3:  https://ibb.co/mTUt2v
Channel 4:  https://ibb.co/dYANvF
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 01:38:31 pm by fishandchips »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #230 on: July 08, 2017, 01:48:05 pm »
These traces look OK to me.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online TK

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #231 on: July 08, 2017, 01:56:04 pm »
1. It looks like a new issue came out which did not happen before. i.e. some horizontal lines became dotted lines. See the two green lines at the bottom (on channel 4) for example.
2. In Channel 1, the yellow horizontal lines are not very straight.
It is an oscilloscope, not a logic analyzer.  Do not expect to see perfect square waves.  Electronics is art and circuits are made of components that have a wide tolerance range... it is not a perfect world.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 02:00:43 pm by TK »
 
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Online TK

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #232 on: July 08, 2017, 02:00:17 pm »
1. It looks like a new issue came out which did not happen before. i.e. some horizontal lines became dotted lines. See the two green lines at the bottom (on channel 4) for example.
You are using an oscilloscope with intensity grading.  The trace areas that are brighter means that signal is being more repetitive in that specific area.  You are looking at a signal being superimposed 800000 (roughly) times a second and that combined signal is what the oscilloscope shows in the LCD at probably around 60 Hz.
 
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Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #233 on: July 08, 2017, 02:15:03 pm »
Thank you all. Do I need to calibrate the probes as mentioned on p.18 of the guide? Haven't touched them yet. Do I need to perform some tests to make sure that the scope is working fine while it is still under a return period?
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #234 on: July 08, 2017, 02:43:24 pm »
It is an oscilloscope, not a logic analyzer.  Do not expect to see perfect square waves.  Electronics is art and circuits are made of components that have a wide tolerance range... it is not a perfect world.

I would put it another way. An ideal square wave would require infinite speed of signal (how else it can immediately "jump" from one level to another?). This is of course impossible. That's why the _edge_ is never perfectly vertical. But everything in between edges is totally different story.

So, depending on where you see the distortion (and the type of distortion) it can perfectly normal, can indicate uncompensated probes, bandwidth problems, signal integrity issues, measurement problems (e.g., using 1x probe when 10x is required), or calibration issues.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #235 on: July 08, 2017, 03:37:36 pm »
Do I need to calibrate the probes as mentioned on p.18 of the guide?

Yes! Pages 17-19 in the Chinese manual. Use the scope's 1kHz, make sure the probes are on X10,
And then you could swap the probes around to give the best Y amplitude match between the channels, calibrate them again and then colour mark the probes for the channel.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 03:45:58 pm by StillTrying »
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline alm

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #236 on: July 08, 2017, 09:57:02 pm »
With a -3dB point at 7Hz you'll start seeing the effects at 70Hz.
So what you are saying is that you would not see this effect at 100 Hz, since that is well above 70 Hz?

The attenuation would be about 0.1 dB at 50 Hz. The tilt is due to the phase shift, and that will still stay an issue until something like 1 kHz. So definitely not because 50 Hz is below the knee frequency, but because it is not far enough above it for the phase shift to be negligible.
 

Offline fishandchips

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #237 on: July 11, 2017, 04:09:09 pm »
Do I need to calibrate the probes as mentioned on p.18 of the guide?

Yes! Pages 17-19 in the Chinese manual. Use the scope's 1kHz, make sure the probes are on X10,
And then you could swap the probes around to give the best Y amplitude match between the channels, calibrate them again and then colour mark the probes for the channel.

I have just done it. What do you guys think of the results?

In Channel 1, the horizontal lines are dotted ones rather than solid horizontal. Same as those in Channels 3 and 4.

In Channel 2, the top left of each square wave are cornered. The bottom corner of each square wave seemed ok. However, when I turned the knob of the prob to make the top left corner of each square wave a straight 90 degree angle, the bottom ones became cornered.

In Channel 4, how come I cannot make the top three horizontal straight? They are still wave-like even after Self Cal and probe compensation.


Channel 1: https://ibb.co/dMAG7v
Channel 2: https://ibb.co/bPtEua
Channel 3: https://ibb.co/fQPyLF
Channel 4: https://ibb.co/b4pXfF

 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #238 on: July 11, 2017, 04:14:01 pm »
Set the grid brighter and you'll see the dots are the grid. Really, there is nothing wrong with these pictures!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline SineAudio

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #239 on: July 20, 2017, 07:26:36 am »
I have the TO1074 version of this scope. I really love the portability factor combined with the very good interface. There have been more chinese scopes ofcourse but they always seem to fail with the interface. Really love it!
I'm still searching for a good bag for it though.. what are you all using? I saw some suggestions earlier in the thread but still not what I'm looking for.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #240 on: July 20, 2017, 02:56:08 pm »
I did finally get the serial decode working, I was confused as I'd assumed that the activation code sent with the link to the firmware was for the decode. It was actually for the 500uV. After I'd confirmed I'd installed the firmware, I was sent a further activation code which enabled the decode.

I've used it on I2C and UART. It seems to work reasonably well despite it being beta. Sometimes doesn't properly decode I2C bytes at certain timebase speeds, by altering the timebase either slower or faster it will properly decode, so I don't think it's due to excessive subsampling. It only decodes what's currently on the screen, and there is no lister/event functionality. The serial trigger functionality seems to be fine so far.

It is useable enough for me to consider this a reasonable option for field use, the serial decode and trigger functionality is pretty much a prerequisite nowadays for my work. The form factor and being battery powered is the icing on the cake.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #241 on: July 20, 2017, 04:42:51 pm »
Thanks for detailing that, Howard. I am getting itchy fingers for the facility, now :)
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #242 on: July 21, 2017, 05:44:26 pm »
Hello fellow hackers :)
It looks like telnet is not enabled on new scopes. Has anyone succeed with re-gaining telnet access?

I tried different methods of getting access, but hasn't managed so far. Also, it doesn't want to flash the same firmware twice, nor it allows to downgrade firmware. I tried to bump version in hex editor, but no luck.

One small observation. I unpacked firmware and found telnet is still there, as well startup script. It looks like when Desktop starts (main application) it stops telnet.

PS I flashed beta-version of firmware with serial decoding, looks like scope became less responsive.
 

Online lukier

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #243 on: July 21, 2017, 06:11:02 pm »
AFAIR the firmware files are makeself archives and only do incremental update (move + new files), not the complete update of the Linux directory structure. In the newer firmware telnet seems to be removed from the startup scripts.

I bought NanoPi 2 Fire board, which is the exact same SoC and I'll be experimenting on that first. My idea is to try to boot TO1074 from SD (with my own prepared Linux) or use the USB boot mode (described in the S5P4418 manual). There must be a test point or a 0 ohm jumper on the PCB that would allow to switch the boot order (they had to program the eMMC somehow).

Once the SoC can execute external code (i.e. prepared Linux distro) one should be able to access the eMMC filesystem and enable telnet and so on. I would like to do a complete backup of the eMMC as well. If something like uBoot crashes then Micsig firmware downloads are not going to help.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #244 on: July 21, 2017, 06:42:52 pm »
AFAIR the firmware files are makeself archives and only do incremental update (move + new files), not the complete update of the Linux directory structure. In the newer firmware telnet seems to be removed from the startup scripts.

I still think telnet is just stopped. I think so after analyzing run0.sh (update script) and binaries. But, of course, I cannot reliably confirm this without access.

One more thing, it looks like there is serial with terminal:
Code: [Select]
# /etc/inittab
console::respawn:/sbin/getty -L  console 115200 vt100

Unfortunately, I hesitate tearing down my unit to confirm this (the scope is too lovely and too expensive).
 

Online lukier

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #245 on: July 21, 2017, 07:38:08 pm »
One more thing, it looks like there is serial with terminal:
Code: [Select]
# /etc/inittab
console::respawn:/sbin/getty -L  console 115200 vt100

Unfortunately, I hesitate tearing down my unit to confirm this (the scope is too lovely and too expensive).

I opened the scope once and poked some test points on the side under the LCD (probing the other side is trickier as the battery has to be plugged in) with the scope but didn't notice any UART.
I would prefer to avoid opening it too many times, as the front bezel is mounted on plastic latches and the LCD is held by screws directly into the plastic - both things might wear out. That's why I got NanoPi 2 Fire for experiments as it is the same SoC, just with more RAM and gigabit ethernet.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #246 on: July 22, 2017, 06:45:20 am »
That's why I got NanoPi 2 Fire for experiments as it is the same SoC, just with more RAM and gigabit ethernet.

Interestingly, on tear down from Mike I see TO1104 equipped 2+1Gb RAM. Meanwhile I see only 256Mb available to the OS (but I may be wrong). Looks like the rest is reserved.
 

Online lukier

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #247 on: July 22, 2017, 10:56:37 am »
Interestingly, on tear down from Mike I see TO1104 equipped 2+1Gb RAM. Meanwhile I see only 256Mb available to the OS (but I may be wrong). Looks like the rest is reserved.

It is (in my TO1074 scope) the K4B1G1646I chip, which is 1Gb and two of them = 2 Gb and that is 256 MB (third chip is for the FPGA). So no difference from Mike's teardown. However, he still got a pimped-up scope as the seller knew who he was. For example, he got 2 speakers and 2 fans, while in mine I have one of each.
 

Offline exe

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #248 on: July 22, 2017, 11:15:26 am »
For example, he got 2 speakers and 2 fans, while in mine I have one of each.

OMG, I was pretty sure I have two fans as they are bloody noisy :(. But after your comment I checked and found I only one!

Could someone on next tear down measure fan parameters (like size, voltage and possibly airflow)? I want to replace mine.
 

Offline SineAudio

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Re: Micsig Tablet Oscilloscope tBook mini TO1000
« Reply #249 on: July 24, 2017, 06:56:12 am »
That's weird. I have a TO1074 (with 28M/100Mhz license) and it has 2 fans and 2 speakers too. My guess is that yours is missing something?
 


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