Author Topic: More WaveAce224 issues!  (Read 31549 times)

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Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2012, 05:47:01 pm »
Once I have the money... I WILL get a replacement. Until then, I WILL RANT.

And if LeCroy technical staff feel ashamed of this abomination, I have succeeded - at least partially. I don't think I will 'reach' the management dudes, they don't know anything about reputation, quality and manners. All these characters care for is their pay-check and company revenue.
 

Offline Nermash

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2012, 07:42:07 pm »
Elektronica 2012 Munich is scheduled for November, and LeCroy will be there. Perfect opportunity for demonstration of "features" on the WaveAce lineup:) Even better, try contacting forum user free_electron, he has several pages of faults found on their top end models. Imagine crashing 50k $ LeCroy scope on the most important electronics fair in Europe, preferably in front of other visitors:) Priceless!
 

Offline T4P

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2012, 08:09:13 pm »
Elektronica 2012 Munich is scheduled for November, and LeCroy will be there. Perfect opportunity for demonstration of "features" on the WaveAce lineup:) Even better, try contacting forum user free_electron, he has several pages of faults found on their top end models. Imagine crashing 50k $ LeCroy scope on the most important electronics fair in Europe, preferably in front of other visitors:) Priceless!

Nermash ... guaranteed to guide people to crash LeCrap scopes since ... 2010
 

Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2012, 08:13:46 pm »
Hmmmm... 30€ for the ticket + gas.

Might be a good idea. I haven't heard from them for quite a while since my last support request. I should remind them what 'support' is all about - even for their low-end gear.

Maybe I will find a firmware bug to permanently brick the scope until then. 

;-) or ;-( - I don't know...
 

Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2012, 10:08:23 pm »
And another one! No, just kidding ;-)

Today I found an email in my inbox... it has the word "refund" in the subject line.

I will read it tomorrow while sipping my breakfast tea.
 

Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #55 on: July 03, 2012, 04:17:40 pm »
Turns out the sender was the current CEO of Lecroy - Thomas H. Reslewic.

I'm glad that LeCroy have taken action in this matter. Maybe they will take the chance and even re-evaluate this device.

End of story: a full refund and no legal threats, neither from them nor from me ;-)

---

Now I'll be looking for a new digital scope - again... 4CH, 200MHz - should be rock-solid and no bugs please.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #56 on: July 03, 2012, 06:51:14 pm »
That's great.  Someone listened to all your complaints.  Are they taking the scope back?  After all your work, it did pay off.

Turns out the sender was the current CEO of Lecroy - Thomas H. Reslewic.

I'm glad that LeCroy have taken action in this matter. Maybe they will take the chance and even re-evaluate this device.

End of story: a full refund and no legal threats, neither from them nor from me ;-)

---

Now I'll be looking for a new digital scope - again... 4CH, 200MHz - should be rock-solid and no bugs please.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #57 on: July 03, 2012, 06:57:29 pm »
Yes, I'm very glad too.

I don't know yet if they want the scope back, but I assume they do. I will certainly try to hand it back. That is better for my karma.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2012, 07:34:04 pm »
Good one mate, now buy a DSOX3000
you won't regret it
 

Offline Hypernova

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2012, 03:33:28 am »
Are you allowed to post more from the email?
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2012, 11:07:25 am »
This issue with long sweep time is typical for atten design. I have "original" Atten branded 2x25meg scope and it shows the same behaviour with triggering on long time base.
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Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2012, 05:24:27 pm »
There's really not much text in the message. It's a one-liner.

Mr. Reslewic offered me a full refund, requested my contact data to get the process going, and said he was sorry that I'm not happy with the device. He closed with "My Apologies..." and 'signature'.

My answer was a bit longer than that. I took the chance to point him to one of the really silly issues with that scope (trigger hold-off adjustment with a SLOOOOW knob) - hoping that it will get through and be fixed.
 

Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2012, 05:27:12 pm »
This issue with long sweep time is typical for atten design.

Failure by design >:(

I'm pretty sure they could have avoided that. I assume the buttons trigger some sort of interrupt, so it could easily stop an ongoing sweep.
 

Offline Hypernova

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2012, 06:03:20 pm »
Another thing: Atten was actually sued by Rigol for stealing their designs a few years ago. Check out this chinese page with some photos comparing the two models.

The ATTEN-ADS7000 design is stolen wholesale from the RIGOL-DS5000
http://www.eefocus.com/xmeasure/blog/09-05/169569_a8333.html
Chinese forum post with close up pics of PCB comparing what Atten used for their WaveAce design to Rigol's original.
http://www.amobbs.com/thread-3538943-1-1.html

Whereas Rigol is trying to break the stigma of chinese crapware Atten is just a typical chinese tech copy cat.

This explains why Lecroy can't fix the problem since not even Atten have a full grasp of how their own (read: Rigol's hardware) scopes work.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 06:22:09 pm by Hypernova »
 

Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2012, 06:26:59 pm »
And therein lies the fallacy of hurriedly expanding their low-end range of scopes. Someone made the decision to just buy and re-brand Atten hardware and firmware - apparently without doing even a minimum of useability tests.

If Rigol would have been a better source I don't know. Is Rigol known to release updates and fixes for their own gear?

They would have fared better if they had just extended their WaveRunner scopes towards the low-end range and offered an affordable upgrade path. Assuming these are in-house jobs...
 

Offline Hypernova

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2012, 06:34:48 pm »
Rigol continues to release new firmware for the DS1052 scopes even this year, I think that says it all.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2012, 07:01:19 pm »
If Rigol would have been a better source ...

Rigol was/is in bed with Agilent. It depends if their deal with Agilent would permit them to supply to other manufacturers, too.
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Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2012, 03:28:59 am »
Wouldn't Agilent like to be payed by LeCroy for fixing their low-end scopes? ;D

Argh! I just can't make up my mind... currently I fancy the Hameg HMO2024. Wafeforms/s is not really great, but bus-decoding + math options are affordable. Not that I really need that, but its sooo nice. I'll probably change my mind in 5 minutes again.

I could spend all day buying scopes, but only if I get to play with them.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2012, 07:47:23 am »
I could spend all day buying scopes, but only if I get to play with them.

Didn't you mean I could spend all day playing with scopes, but only if I don't need to buy them?  8)
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Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2012, 01:49:41 pm »
Hmmm. That makes sense too.

The only problem is that once I have found a scope that I like, I won't give it back without force  ;D
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2012, 07:26:11 pm »
Rigol continues to release new firmware for the DS1052 scopes even this year, I think that says it all.
Yeah, but the waveform generators from 2010 and still on sale are not supported any more. No Win64 drivers, no updates for NIVISA support. Support people don't know their own products. Good support is something else.


... currently I fancy the Hameg HMO2024. Wafeforms/s is not really great, but bus-decoding + math options are affordable.
In the ~2k€ range and 4ch league there's more or less only the HMO2024 and the Rigol DS4014.Yet if you need protocol decoding, this gets very expensive for the Rigol.
The HMO2024 is a neat little (in the most verbatim sense) scope. Not perfect, but no major show stoppers. E.g. interleaving in 2ch mode (->2MPts/Ch) works only for 2GSa/s which means timebases <= 50µs. When reducing the horizontal resolution to >=100µs, it jumps directly to 500MSa/s and 1Mpts/ch (-> no benefit any more from 2ch mode). Also you can't save full waveforms with the scope, only via the PC tool (which is very basic). And yeah the small rotary knobs feel a little cheap.
Anyway, all the base functionality works very well and there are some neat features. Also the probes are detected automatically.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Online jpb

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2012, 08:43:59 pm »
One alternative might be some of the scopes on Agilents refurb store:
http://stores.ebay.com/Agilent-Remarketing-Solutions-Store?_rdc=1
e.g. the 5000 series, though the official prices for serial decoding are very high (I don't know if the refurb store allows them at a discount)

 

Offline madworm

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2012, 10:34:18 pm »
Hmm. If they expect me to buy gear like that on ebay (including the possible hassle and issues if something goes wrong), I expect them to reduce the prices noticeably.

I certainly won't hand over several k€ for anything bought on ebay, not being able to test it beforehand, without somebody real I can hunt down in case of trouble. Not going to happen.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #73 on: July 08, 2012, 06:21:57 am »
I certainly won't hand over several k€ for anything bought on ebay, not being able to test it beforehand, without somebody real I can hunt down in case of trouble. Not going to happen.

Tek has their refurbished stuff on the Tek website. http://www.tek.com/buy/used-test-equipment You have to register and ask for a quote. So their marketing can vet you and suck you into the sales funnel.

So I don't know what is worse.
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Online jpb

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Re: More WaveAce224 issues!
« Reply #74 on: July 08, 2012, 11:44:14 am »
Hmm. If they expect me to buy gear like that on ebay (including the possible hassle and issues if something goes wrong), I expect them to reduce the prices noticeably.

I certainly won't hand over several k€ for anything bought on ebay, not being able to test it beforehand, without somebody real I can hunt down in case of trouble. Not going to happen.

I think it is legit as I was given the link by Agilent after asking about a refurbished item advertised on their UK web-site, they basically said all their refurbished items go through the e-bay store.

Some of them carry a three year warranty (though this seems to vary) and are calibrated so, though I share your concerns regarding e-bay, it is probably ok. Anyway, I'm not pushing it - I have no connection with Agilent and I think though the hardware is discounted the software add-ons are probably full price in which case you could end up paying more for the decoding than for the scope! (I don't know this for certain as I've not made any enquiries), for instance the decode option for one protocol on the 5000 series is over £1k!

I continue to dither on an oscilloscope. The decoding options seem to be very expensive except for the Hameg or Rigol 2000 series but then even with the Hameg if you go for the digital channels as well the cost approaches that of say buying the LeCroy LogicStudio separately and the Rigol 2000 series is only 2 channel so decoding is rather limited anyway.



« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 12:57:52 pm by jpb »
 


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