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MSO5000 Bode Plot Capability: Is it Good Enough? [Many tips about a 1st scope]
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2N3055:

--- Quote from: egonotto on October 05, 2022, 07:40:56 am ---Hello,

@2N3055: For a stability analysis it seems to me that you need an injection transformer. Unfortunately, I don't have that.
The problem with such measurements seems to me to be the small voltage. This could be remedied with a suitable preamplifier.

Best regards
egonotto

--- End quote ---

It has been show that you can use a common mode choke in a pinch.. I tried with Coilcraft CMT4-10-15L and it gave good enough results for noncritical work. Also I took one of these and removed windings and made windings from CAT6 cable (there was a topic here on making one at home) and that one worked well too.

You could use preamp. You can use external amplifier for gen too. As I said to Fungus, dynamic range is being extended by fact that some scopes have good sensitivity built in, and also if you have generator synchronized, you vary stimulus level.
But if you add preamp you need to scale manually.

Beauty of Siglent Bode Plot II is that all of those shenanigans are being taken care of automatically. It simply works.
Only other Bode plot software that I tried that was close to be so well integrated and streamlined in use is one in my Keysight 3000T. But only with built in generator, it cannot control external generator so it is limited in drive..

Siglent Bode Plot II support multiple channels, few more measurements etc. It really works well. It simply works..
jasonRF:
Has the OP considered used equipment?  I don't know what the market and associated costs are when shopping from Europe, but in the US items like the Analog Discovery can be found with significant discounts.  An Analog Discovery 1 just sold on ebay a couple of days ago for $130.  Sure, it would cost an additional $40 for the BNC adapter and a couple of cheap probes, but it could still save $200 or more.   

I don't think I would go that route for my first 4-channel benchtop scope, but for an AD I think the risk is relatively low. 

Just a thought. 

jason

EDIT: I haven't used any of hte scopes mentioned in this thread, but I am surprised by the high price of the Instek GDS1054B in the EU.  In the US it often sells for less than the Rigol DS1054Z and the Siglent SDS1104X-U, which are closer competitors performance-wise.   On paper the Siglent SDS1104X-E seems like a much better scope than the instek: dual ADCs, potential upgrades for MSO and Bode capability, more sensitive front-end (500 uV/div, versus 1 mV/div that includes some digital zoom according to the GDS1054B thread on the forums), actual BNC for the trigger out (I am pretty sure the Instek uses the probe compensation as the trigger out...), etc.   Plus, if the OP already has the UniT siggen, there  is a possibility that they (or someone else on the forums) will eventually figure out how to make it work with the Siglent Bode plotting. 

Having said that, I thought seriously about purchasing a GDS1054B or GDS1202B for myself a number of months ago, but again I am in the US so price was a huge factor ($350 for 1054B vs $499 for SDS1104X-E; $310 for GDS1202B vs $380 for sds1202x-e).  Of course that is why I am familiar with some of the quirks of the Insteks that have been posted on the forums.

jason
Fungus:

--- Quote from: jasonRF on October 05, 2022, 11:53:24 am ---EDIT: I haven't used any of hte scopes mentioned in this thread, but I am surprised by the high price of the Instek GDS1054B in the EU.

--- End quote ---

Yep, it's a ridiculous difference.

The Insteks used to cost a lot more in the USA, too. They also had no serial decoders and weren't very hackable so they never gained much mindshare even though they're very fast and nice to use.

Now they've added the missing features and dropped the price a lot (less than a Rigol DS1054Z!). They deserve more recognition, but...  :-//
balnazzar:

--- Quote from: jasonRF on October 05, 2022, 11:53:24 am ---Has the OP considered used equipment?  I don't know what the market and associated costs are when shopping from Europe, but in the US items like the Analog Discovery can be found with significant discounts.  An Analog Discovery 1 just sold on ebay a couple of days ago for $130.  Sure, it would cost an additional $40 for the BNC adapter and a couple of cheap probes, but it could still save $200 or more.   

I don't think I would go that route for my first 4-channel benchtop scope, but for an AD I think the risk is relatively low. 

Just a thought. 

jason

EDIT: I haven't used any of hte scopes mentioned in this thread, but I am surprised by the high price of the Instek GDS1054B in the EU.  In the US it often sells for less than the Rigol DS1054Z and the Siglent SDS1104X-U, which are closer competitors performance-wise.   On paper the Siglent SDS1104X-E seems like a much better scope than the instek: dual ADCs, potential upgrades for MSO and Bode capability, more sensitive front-end (500 uV/div, versus 1 mV/div that includes some digital zoom according to the GDS1054B thread on the forums), actual BNC for the trigger out (I am pretty sure the Instek uses the probe compensation as the trigger out...), etc.   Plus, if the OP already has the UniT siggen, there  is a possibility that they (or someone else on the forums) will eventually figure out how to make it work with the Siglent Bode plotting. 

Having said that, I thought seriously about purchasing a GDS1054B or GDS1202B for myself a number of months ago, but again I am in the US so price was a huge factor ($350 for 1054B vs $499 for SDS1104X-E; $310 for GDS1202B vs $380 for sds1202x-e).  Of course that is why I am familiar with some of the quirks of the Insteks that have been posted on the forums.

jason

--- End quote ---

Used equipment: considered. But if you read here and there, for example a known problem of the AD/AD2 is the fragilty of the micro-USB connector. If you aren't careful, it will get broken or partially broken very soon. A lot of people on forums lamented that having purchased an used one, they found the connector 'working' but basically broken and sloppily repaired.. And too few vendors on ebay offer the return option, not to mention the hassle.
As for the scopes, unless you want to wait months, it's very difficult to get a good, modern scope, held in good conditions for cheap prices on ebay. I bought both the Siglent and the AD2 on Amazon. If I won't like one or them (or both), super easy return with no shipping costs.

Prices in EU: There are two factors that impact badly. We have higher import duties for the distributors, and we have VAT for the end customer. That's why healthcare and education is free, here. It's not free, you just pay in advance.

balnazzar:
Tell me one further thing, and indulge my ignorance. How much importance is to be given to the wavegen sampling rate?
I find it odd that cheap scopes can acquire signals up to 1 GSa/s while the generators get up to 150 on average.

Which are the usage cases where insufficient sampling rate by the gen is going to be a limiting factor?

I was reading the datasheets (yes  ;D) of the sdg1000x series: 150 MSa/s (note that my cheapo UNI-T gets to 200), whereas its slightly more expensive sibling, the sdg2000 gets to 1.2 GSa/s..

It's a huge differece, for just 150 eur more...
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