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| MSO5000 Bode Plot Capability: Is it Good Enough? [Many tips about a 1st scope] |
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| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: balnazzar on October 09, 2022, 10:39:41 am --- --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 09, 2022, 09:58:43 am --- Purpose of a fan is to move air. Fact that some people put in fans that don't move enough air to make it silent will compromise thermal integrity of device. Or not, depending whether you're in tropics or Syberia. Manufacturer has to GUARANTEE it will work in full range promised in datasheet. If you take effort to look at the numbers, very few people bother and think fan needs exchanging. Those that do are in a minority. Nobody is going to make product more expensive for less than 1% of users, compromising sales to 99% users that are quite happy with both device and price. I'm not saying you're stupid for wishing better, but it simply doesn't work that way. --- End quote --- I get your point, and there is truth in it. But I still have to read about just 1 person who swapped the fan and then reported that the scope has died due to overheating. --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 09, 2022, 09:58:43 am --- And please will you refrain from statements like "The 2K HD is allegedly silent. Allegedly. ..". That is an example you making a statement that implies I'm lying... I know for fact it is true, not alleged fact. --- End quote --- NO. I'm not implying you are lying. I'm implying that this has been reported by just one person, who happens to be quite insensitive to acoustical noise by his own admission. If you automatically assume nasty intentions by your counterpart in a conversation, such a conversation would necessarily steer toward unpleasant. --- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 09, 2022, 09:58:43 am --- It would be nice for OP to share his final decision and rationale behind it here in a conclusion, so other users with similar budget and requirements (with emphasis on very acoustically quiet scopes) could benefit from all the effort OP and contributors invested in this. --- End quote --- Here is what I'll do: I'll try and use just the AD2 for now. It's very good, apart from its limitations (2chs only, low frequency, etc..). Then I'll buy a Pico (2000 series, 4ch, probably 70 MHz), hoping that they'll be available soon. If not, I'll go for a Pico 3000 as soon as I have the money. I would recommend the 1104X-E to anyone who is *very* insensitive to acoustical disturbance, but want a good, cheap scope, with a very good price-quality ratio! --- End quote --- Thank you for your nice post. I just wanted to add that we might be having a problem communicating in language that is foreign to both of us. My meaning of allegedly is "something that is claimed without proof" and usually used in legal proceedings or by journalist when wanting to cast doubt to someone's claims without taking responsibility if journalist or lawyer falsely accused someone.. So it has meaning you are casting doubts my statement is true and unproven, a speculation.. That combined with my adamant statement my claim is fact and a true, means casting doubt as to veracity of me and my statement.. But water under the bridge, I'm just explaining rationale behind on my side.. You are correct there are not many reports of scopes dying after putting in lesser fan. First reason is people don't like to brag about failures. Other reason is because it is not about dying same day, but about decreased reliability. In fact you could go in and disable fan completely, it might work like that for months, especially in nice cold office. But you would probably see weird bugs, freeze ups and that would progress as downward spiral until it would repeatably fail. Or you could see problem only when you enable FFT because then CPU goes up and there is more heat. Anyways thermal engineering is engineering and there is method to the madness. If you want to improve on factory design, you absolutely can, but it has to be done in rational and proper way with testing and measurements. Not just swapping fans and hoping for the best. Or you can, but all bets are off. You might get lucky or not. That is my point. There are more than one SDS2000X HD users, and my statement is a proven, fact with all of them. Let's put it this way. SDS2000X HD is so silent that after initial fan test on power up, I had to switch off all the devices in a lab, close the door and window, and then I had to put an ear 10cm from it to hear a slight whoosh... Fact that I'm not "sensitive" to fan sound doesn't imply I'm deaf or have trouble hearing. It simply means that I can mentally ignore (I simply don't pay attention to it) slight hum of individual device, especially when more than one device is on. Sort of like those pink noise meditation sounds on Youtube. In fact I had to learn to do so, because I have no luxury to chose- As soon as you go a bit up the chain, there are no more silent devices. And some are more annoying if there are resonances that show up as slight tones.. Sort of tinnitus like noise.. But as I say, you have no choice sometimes. Actually I have quite keen ear (it is getting worse with age though), but I'm more annoyed and bothered when I start hearing higher frequency noises from switchers or whatnot. I used to get crazy from old CRT TV horizontal frequency that I clearly felt in my ears as an unpleasant pressure.. And now for useful advice about Pico. I have 4262 (16bit model), a 8Ch 4824A (12 bit) and 3406D MSO. 2000 and 3000 series are 8bit. Higher end 2000 series and entry level 3000 seem to overlap a bit but there are differences. Make sure to check input ranges, input offset ranges and 20MHz BW filter. I believe 2000 series does not have hardware 20MHz BW filter. There is also 5000 series that has variable resolution. Most of them support Hexamers FRA application, but not lowest 2000 models. Not all models are available now. Best, |
| balnazzar:
@2N3055 Thanks for the clarification :) Yes, we non-native speakers tend to simplify and not to articulate properly. That stands true for myself in the 1st place. Coming to the scopes, thanks also for the useful info about the Picos. You have quite an assortment, but I think the money spent is justified by the fact you earn a living with them. Of particular interest is the fact that Hexamer's FRA application is not supported by the 2000-series. That's very bad news! :wtf: EDIT: May I ask what you think about the Pico's software suite? Is it bug-free? Complete? And so no.. |
| 2N3055:
--- Quote from: balnazzar on October 09, 2022, 12:38:55 pm ---@2N3055 Thanks for the clarification :) Yes, we non-native speakers tend to simplify and not to articulate properly. That stands true for myself in the 1st place. Coming to the scopes, thanks also for the useful info about the Picos. You have quite an assortment, but I think the money spent is justified by the fact you earn a living with them. Of particular interest is the fact that Hexamer's FRA application is not supported by the 2000-series. That's very bad news! :wtf: EDIT: May I ask what you think about the Pico's software suite? Is it bug-free? Complete? And so no.. --- End quote --- FRA supports 2000 ones with larger memory. And yes they all paid for themselves. In fact I would buy them for the project.. With time they start grow numbers.. Pico 6 SW is very stable and fully featured. It has a bit older windows app concept. There is V7 beta that is getting to be feature complete, with much more modern GUI . I actually use it all the time, and check with V6 when in doubt. V7 felt unusual in beginning but with time I like it better than old one. I run it on 23" touchscreen on PC and it works the treat.. Pico is is quite conservative and tend to debug quite well. |
| balnazzar:
--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 09, 2022, 11:53:59 am ---Most of them support Hexamers FRA application, but not lowest 2000 models. Not all models are available now. --- End quote --- I'm trying to get more info about that. In particular, which ones are 'lowest enough' not to support the FRA app. It seems the absolute lowest model (10 MHz) is not supported [source: pico forums, Hexamer's posts] It is unclear if for example, the 25,50,70,100 MHz models support it. The wiki says: The current design of the application requires a PicoScope device that has at least 2 channels and a function generator. [...] Some devices are not compatible due to other unique impediments. For example, the PS3204 function generator currently does not output a pure sine. It also seems that the FRA won't work with an external function generator. |
| jasonRF:
--- Quote from: balnazzar on October 09, 2022, 10:08:14 am --- --- Quote from: jasonRF on October 09, 2022, 02:19:14 am ---Certainly there are differences. For example, the sds1104x-e has dual 1 GS/s ADCs while the Picoscopes have a single ADC. [...] both of my scopes are Picoscopes (2204a, 5244b) --- End quote --- But any 5000-series pico has 8 independent ADCs (I think that's why they can get to 16 bit resolution.. By stacking ADCs..) --- End quote --- Dave did a teardown of a 5000B scope a bunch of years ago (I think it was a 5443B), so I know that it has a single ADC chip that draws something like 1/2 Watt. It is a very specialized chip, and they basically designed their scopes around it. I suspect they use that same chip in the current 5000D series, unless it is obsolete. Regarding FRA4Picoscope, it works fine with my 2204a, the cheapest Picoscope in the current lineup. For years that was my only scope and I used that app many times. There are examples from at least two different 2000-series (including my 2204a) in the thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/picoscope-2000/ jason |
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