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MSO5000 Bode Plot Capability: Is it Good Enough? [Many tips about a 1st scope]

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nctnico:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 02, 2022, 11:15:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: balnazzar on October 02, 2022, 08:21:17 pm ---
--- Quote from: tautech on October 02, 2022, 07:21:51 pm ---
All Siglent DSO's capable of Bode plot


--- End quote ---

Apart from the bode plots, if you had to make a case for the Siglent scope vs. the Instek, what would you say to a prospective customer?
What does your scope have that the Instek lacks?

--- End quote ---

Many things. 
It has 2 1GS/S ADC instead of one. It has more display modes. It has better vertical sensitivity.  Web control.

Nico owns GW Instek scope, but a 2000E series that is nice little scope but much more expensive.

--- End quote ---
Still it runs the same firmware as the GDS-1054B. In comparison to the model I have, the GDS-1054 has half the samplerate and you can't enable the spectrum analysis option on it.


--- Quote ---GDS1054 has some thing going for it and it is better than, say, Rigol DS1054, but not SDS1104X-E.

--- End quote ---
You forget that the SDS1104X-E has some useability issues like decoding only what is on screen and suboptimal memory management (recording only enough data to fill the screen). Based on that alone, it is not an optimal choice for doing digital / firmware development. In this price range you'll always need to compromise somehow.

tautech:

--- Quote from: 2N3055 on October 02, 2022, 11:15:14 pm ---.............
If I were in your place I would either buy SDS1104X-E and SDG1000X AWG for more analog minded application or a MSO5000 if you are going to predominantly do microcontrollers robotics, motor control and such.
First option gives you great little scope and a 2ch real AWG and Bode plot that works really well.

--- End quote ---
Yep, our most popular budget conscious pairing, SDS1104X-E and SDG1032X and those with a little more go for SDG2042X that if both are 'improved' pushes out to the 120 MHz max of Siglent Bode plot capability.

2N3055:

--- Quote from: nctnico on October 02, 2022, 10:47:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: tautech on October 02, 2022, 10:16:48 pm ---Feature set and specs determine what one can do with any instrument not how fast it can do it.

--- End quote ---
Faster means an instrument is more efficient and more enjoyable to use. So yes, being able to make measurements fast is a good feature. But it is missing from datasheets and specs. Reading specs is like judging a book by the cover. You still don't know whether you'll enjoy the book. You either have to read the book or go by the reviews (which might be skewed).

I used to own an Agilent MSO7104A (4 channel 1GHz + 16 channel MSO) which IIRC costed like $20k when new. It required endless dicking around with knobs and going through deep menus in order to configure things like decoding or math. The GW Instek GDS-2204E I bought later on was such a relief compared to the MSO7104A. The MSO7104A is long gone but I still have the GDS-2204E because it is such a pleasant oscilloscope to use.

--- End quote ---

I don't disagree that instrument that is more "enjoyable to use" will be "more enjoyable to use".. That is pretty much a truism, but is pretty undefined what it really means. Specifically there are thousands of people that "revere" Keysight scope (including one you didn't like) as best ones to use.... So that is by definition individual and very vague.

And your comparison with the book is not very good one, sorry.  Datasheet is detailed explanation of what the book is all about. It is necessary to pick a book from right genre etc..

Instrument can be very enjoyable to use (to me for instance) but if datasheet shows it has no measurement functions I need it is a moot point. People say Apple phones are joy to use but if they cannot run application my company standardizes on, then it is useless to me, enjoyable or not. 

Datasheet is absolute necessary first data point. How many channels?  Trigger input ?  And many other functions.
Only when you have several devices that all can fulfill your function then you start comparing how well they work.

Once you make a list of devices that do stuff you need and do it well, then absolutely, pick one with bigger, better screen, nicer colour, and whatever subjective, cosmetic or whatever differences there are.
But it has to be able to do the work for you first..

balnazzar:

--- Quote from: nctnico on October 02, 2022, 10:47:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: tautech on October 02, 2022, 10:16:48 pm ---Feature set and specs determine what one can do with any instrument not how fast it can do it.

--- End quote ---
Faster means an instrument is more efficient and more enjoyable to use. So yes, being able to make measurements fast is a good feature. But it is missing from datasheets and specs. Reading specs is like judging a book by the cover. You still don't know whether you'll enjoy the book. You either have to read the book or go by the reviews (which might be skewed).

I used to own an Agilent MSO7104A (4 channel 1GHz + 16 channel MSO) which IIRC costed like $20k when new. It required endless dicking around with knobs and going through deep menus in order to configure things like decoding or math. The GW Instek GDS-2204E I bought later on was such a relief compared to the MSO7104A. The MSO7104A is long gone but I still have the GDS-2204E because it is such a pleasant oscilloscope to use.

--- End quote ---

I meant exactly that. It has to let you use it 'easily', so that you can focus upon your work.

Anyway, interesting and useful opinion, although the GDS-2204E is not exactly a low end instrument (~2000 eur).
Did you ever own or use comparable Siglent scopes?

nctnico:

--- Quote from: balnazzar on October 03, 2022, 12:01:37 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on October 02, 2022, 10:47:21 pm ---
--- Quote from: tautech on October 02, 2022, 10:16:48 pm ---Feature set and specs determine what one can do with any instrument not how fast it can do it.

--- End quote ---
Faster means an instrument is more efficient and more enjoyable to use. So yes, being able to make measurements fast is a good feature. But it is missing from datasheets and specs. Reading specs is like judging a book by the cover. You still don't know whether you'll enjoy the book. You either have to read the book or go by the reviews (which might be skewed).

I used to own an Agilent MSO7104A (4 channel 1GHz + 16 channel MSO) which IIRC costed like $20k when new. It required endless dicking around with knobs and going through deep menus in order to configure things like decoding or math. The GW Instek GDS-2204E I bought later on was such a relief compared to the MSO7104A. The MSO7104A is long gone but I still have the GDS-2204E because it is such a pleasant oscilloscope to use.

--- End quote ---

I meant exactly that. It has to let you use it 'easily', so that you can focus upon your work.

Anyway, interesting and useful opinion, although the GDS-2204E is not exactly a low end instrument (~2000 eur).
Did you ever own or use comparable Siglent scopes?

--- End quote ---
That is a bit of a long story. I bought a Siglent SDS2000 (2.5k euro) when it was released. It was so horrible with no outlook on Siglent getting it fixed to an acceptable level that I more or less threw it in the bin (Siglent didn't want to take it back) and I ended up spending more money on a used A-brand scope. Nowadays Siglent scopes are better and people seem to be happy with them. OTOH, I buy test equipment to make money and I need equipment to work as expected instead of throwing me a curve ball at the worst possible moment. Based on the good experiences on this forum I recommended one of my customers to buy some Siglent gear but that turned out to be a horrible mistake. Basically they wasted their money and spend a bunch of hours on an issue that was a fault in the Siglent equipment. In the end buying A-brand equipment was cheaper. Personally I stay clear from Siglent equipment for any serious work (same for Rigol BTW) since then. Their firmware quality control just isn't good enough for me to work with.

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