Author Topic: MSO5000 Use with Monitor  (Read 1029 times)

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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« on: April 16, 2020, 05:58:47 pm »
This is a sad tale about my setting up a 21.5" IPS monitor for use with my MSO5074. 

I bought an Asus VZ229HE 22" for $100 from Newegg and it arrived on Monday.  I got it set up and, apart from the issue that sometimes the HDMI doesn't work and you have to restart the scope (fixed in the latest firmware apparently) I had it working (see first picture).

Today I was messing around trying to think how I would best position the monitor with respect to the scope and I put it behind the scope, balanced on the plie of wires back there. I went upstairs for a pee and when I came back down, the monitor had fallen forward, knocked the MSO5000 off the shelf, and then fallen on top of everything.  Luckily the MSO5000 survived with a small mark in the plastic at the top right but everything seems to work just fine. The monitor too had a small mark top right but it was fucked (see second picture).  To add to my woes, the stuff landed on top of my GNSS PCB and serial PCB and bent the header pins right over.

Lessons learned:

1. Never balance stuff on a rats nest of wires when there's $1,000s of test gear at stake.
2. The Asus VZ229HE 22" is pretty flimsy as monitors go, there's barely a mark on it and it's fucked.

I submitted a claim to Mastercard which involved me filling in forms with my life story and a copy of my passport (seriously!) so I'll let you know how that goes.

I will replace the monitor and upgrade the firmware on the MSO5000.  As you can see, the 1280x720 @ 60Hs leaves a 1" black band around the Asus VZ229HE 22"'s screen, now I'm thinking of a  Asus VA24EHE 24" which is only $10 more and seems to be able to display 1280x720 @ 60Hz in full screen.

I know, if I want sympathy, I'll find it between shit and syphilis in the dictionary - time to start drinking.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2020, 05:59:43 pm »
Missing picture
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Offline tv84

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2020, 06:13:12 pm »
Missing picture

That was a bold move!!! I think you were not even asking for Murphy!

By chance, I have an Asus VX229H just in front of me but all cables are on top of the foot stand...   ::)
 
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Online NoisyBoy

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2020, 06:47:24 pm »
So sorry to hear that, I have just too many stories to tell for regretful consequences for taking short cuts.  Now I often remind myself with one of these numerous lessons when I have an inkling of cutting corner. 

Based on your second picture, looks like the monitor not just tipped over, but also suffered a 2 ft fall onto your bench top.  That could easily mess up most monitors regardless of brands, they are all so fragile these days. 

For monitors, I don't like anything that promises auto scaling until it is a integer multiple.  You are relying on whatever logic they choose for the up-scaling, it is distracting even for the TrueType fonts on a computer which is specially designed to minimize this.
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2020, 07:09:51 pm »
So sorry to hear that, I have just too many stories to tell for regretful consequences for taking short cuts.  Now I often remind myself with one of these numerous lessons when I have an inkling of cutting corner. 

Based on your second picture, looks like the monitor not just tipped over, but also suffered a 2 ft fall onto your bench top.  That could easily mess up most monitors regardless of brands, they are all so fragile these days. 

For monitors, I don't like anything that promises auto scaling until it is a integer multiple.  You are relying on whatever logic they choose for the up-scaling, it is distracting even for the TrueType fonts on a computer which is specially designed to minimize this.
Thanks,

So do you have a recommendation for a monitor that would work with the MSO5000 to display 1280x720@60Hz?
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Online NoisyBoy

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2020, 09:19:26 pm »
Unfortunately, that resolution is mostly used for PC games in the old days, monitors that supports it natively are all small, not much larger than the display on the scope.  Besides, that resolution is far too low for any monitor in the 20+ inch size even if you can find one.  That's why I wish Rigol would support 1920x1080 HD as there are plenty of options out there.

If the monitor hardware support scaling, the next logical step up for a larger monitor will be in the 2560x1440 resolution, which gives it a 4:1 pixel map without interpolation.  But again, those monitors are not very popular and fewer to pick from, aside from being more pricey.  I am not ready to buy a odd-ball resolution monitor just to use with the scope.

When I use the external display, I use it on a 1920x1080 monitor with a black bars around it.  It is still much larger than the scope display, and you will ignore the black border after a while.  The intend on my original note was to avoid paying more for monitors that claim they can scale non-native images for you, as I have yet seen one that I am happy with.  With something like a scope image, I'd rather have fidelity and clarity rather than a larger fuzzy image.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2020, 10:00:24 pm »
Noisyboy resumed it very well.

720p monitors are almost all smaller than your 20+" target.

You have 2 choices: 2560x1440 or 1920x1080.

With 1920x1080 you would have a 1.5x upscaling factor. While acceptable on TVs, it's not very cool for PC monitors...

A 1440p monitor, as Noisyboy said, would be best because of the upscaling factor. There are plenty of models in the 24+" range. They cost more the double of you ruined Asus.

Examples: Dell P2418D / ASUS Designo MX25AQ / Samsung S24H850 / AOC AG241QX
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 10:15:40 pm by tv84 »
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2020, 10:41:06 pm »
Here is the manual for the VZ229EHE monitor, can anyone comment on whether this will display a 1280x720 @ 60 Hz signal full-screen? The screen resolution data is at the very end.
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 10:50:46 pm »
S32D850T would also be good I think if you had the room. Comes with a decent stand although I use it with an articulating mount. 2560x1440 and large enough that ppi isn't so high that you ever have high res scaling issues. Support for 1280x720@60Hz. It's been a great second monitor but I only paid 200$ new, looking around I see prices closer to 400. Issues with stands and space are a great reason to move to wall mounts.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 11:02:10 pm by maginnovision »
 

Offline Caliaxy

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2020, 12:38:34 am »
No mater what monitor your choose, I suggest getting one of these too:

[url=https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07T3KCQ94/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1]https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07T3KCQ94/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]

It saves space on your bench and prevents accidents like you describe from happening.
 

Offline Shodge

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2020, 12:50:58 am »
I would like one of those for the scope.... :D

-Stan
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2020, 09:00:00 am »
No mater what monitor your choose, I suggest getting one of these too:

[url=https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07T3KCQ94/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1]https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07T3KCQ94/ref=sspa_mw_detail_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]

It saves space on your bench and prevents accidents like you describe from happening.
YES!!!! I NEED one of those :D

Thanks
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2020, 09:36:33 am »
So I just ordered an Asus VA229HR (IPS, 21.5" 1920 x 1080, same as before but with a sturdier plastic surround I think) plus one of those arm brackets from Amazon and the total was $135 shipped (I am a Prime member and get free express shipping).  They are supposed to arrive on Sunday.

The old broken one didn't have the screw holes in the back for wall/bracket-mounting.

I wonder how little Asus gets for these monitors, probably $50 each and it is supposed to ship with an HDMI cable.  I haven't heard back from Mastercard yet but I hope that they will give me $100 and I get to keep the nice little 19V, 1.75A, tiny switch mode power supply and HDMI cable that came with it.
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2020, 09:43:03 am »
I would like one of those for the scope.... :D

-Stan
No problems Stan, all you have to do is drill 4 holes in the back of the MSO5000  >:D
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Offline YZEPT

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 08:43:30 pm »
I watched a fellow engineer stumble and drop a $30k Scope down a concrete flight of stairs, It did not survive (CRT imploded) and sadly neither did his employment.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2020, 10:41:05 pm »
I watched a fellow engineer stumble and drop a $30k Scope down a concrete flight of stairs, It did not survive (CRT imploded) and sadly neither did his employment.
Ouch!  Here's an upside for using cheap test equipment.  I was unhappy that a $100 monitor lasted me 4 days but maybe I'll get the money back.  But hey, if I'm $100 out of pocket, that's not the end of the world, not in this pandemic.  I'm lucky that the screen tha broke was not the one on the MSO5000.

There are upsides of being a cheapskate.
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Offline tv84

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2020, 07:51:00 am »
There are upsides of being a cheapskate.

Let's call it "training costs".
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2020, 03:47:14 pm »
Arrrggghhhhh!   |O

I came to set up my MSO5000 with my new new monitor and found that the top left 'everything' twiddly knob was rattling around in the breeze  :-BROKE yep, when it fell on the bench, it whacked that knob and ripped it off the PCB. I backed up that assumption by seeing that there were small dents in the edge of the knob where it landed on the 0.1" header on my GPS PCB that was on the bench running; yes that needed repair too :(  I think I need to do an exorcism of my workshop.

Anyway, I need a break now as I've just spent the last 2 hours doing a trip inside my MSO5074 to repair the broken and missing tracks around the quadrature encoder pot that had become detached from the PCB. Dave's "take 'er apart" video was useful and it was fairly straightforward.  After I got it all back together I realized that the shaft for that pot is very slightly bent but it will have to stay that way.  First 5 minutes testing indicate that all is functional.

I took some pictures along the way so I'll post them later for you sadists that want to revel in my misfortune.  Now I've fastened the bloody scope down with 2-sided tape
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 
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Offline Elasia

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2020, 04:18:33 pm »
Ouch that's rough, least it was repairable

Thats one thing i like about those vs siglent.. at least you got a video out so its stand alone
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2020, 04:30:13 pm »
The rigol DS4000 series had a big honking ~5mm acrylic plate in front of the screen. You could probably throw a screwdriver at it and only scratch it. Do they still have the plate in the MSO5000 series?
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2020, 04:49:25 pm »
The twiddly knob I was referring to is the one on the MSO5000.  I suppose I should be grateful that it didn't mess up my MSO5000's screen, rotary encoders are cheap compared to screens.

[Edit] Here are some pictures...

The order is all messed up but the bench view is what I was trying to achieve except I ordered a monitor arm that never turned up; I complained to Amazon who gave me a refund and then sent me an email saying if I don't return the item, they will recharge me!

The encoder has lugs underneath that go through PCB holes, I added a tiny bit of gooey super glue to help it stay on the PCB.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 05:15:28 pm by Gandalf_Sr »
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Offline tv84

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2020, 05:27:16 pm »
Are you trying to create another thread about HW hacking the MSO ? ?   ;D

Nice job, given the situation!
 
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Online NoisyBoy

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2020, 05:50:10 pm »
So sorry to hear about the encoder.  I bent the shaft on the voltage encoder on my 6643A, while it worked fine but it drove me crazy.  End up buying the parts from Keysight to replace it.

On the MSO5000, I hated the small diameter of that knob and the hard push, I found it very difficult to pick an entry with precision, and the hard push sometimes feels like I am about to topple the scope.  So I wonder if a larger knob, along with an encoder with detent, and with lighter push to engage could tremendously improve the user experience of one of the most often used knob on the scope.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2020, 08:27:31 pm »
So sorry to hear about the encoder.  I bent the shaft on the voltage encoder on my 6643A, while it worked fine but it drove me crazy.  End up buying the parts from Keysight to replace it.

On the MSO5000, I hated the small diameter of that knob and the hard push, I found it very difficult to pick an entry with precision, and the hard push sometimes feels like I am about to topple the scope.  So I wonder if a larger knob, along with an encoder with detent, and with lighter push to engage could tremendously improve the user experience of one of the most often used knob on the scope.
You may be right, one issue is that the MSO5000 is so light that any interaction with the knobs, even pressing the power on switch, makes it move across the bench, plus it's kind of front heavy meaning a strong wind from behind could topple it over; that's part of the reason why, when the original monitor fell on it from behind, it launched itself down onto the bench below.  I have some 2-sided Duck tape and I put 1.5" square patches under each foot, now I can get hold of the top of the scope and try to pull it towards me and it doesn't move  >:D

What it really needs is a big slab of depleted uranium in the bottom of the case.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 Use with Monitor
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2020, 08:30:32 pm »
The rigol DS4000 series had a big honking ~5mm acrylic plate in front of the screen. You could probably throw a screwdriver at it and only scratch it. Do they still have the plate in the MSO5000 series?
No, it's a touch-screen so it has to be unprotected.
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