Author Topic: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus  (Read 911 times)

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Offline typoknig

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MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« on: March 17, 2020, 01:35:14 am »
I've been in the market for my first "real" scope for about a year now (been using a USB scope/LA).  I know I need a signal generator and I could see an LA making my life easier sometime in the future, but I don't "need" an LA right now.  I would also like to get a scope I can learn well and grow into.  I've had my eye on the MSO5074, but Rigol's lack of timely bug fixes for the unit and the ridiculous cost of the LA probe is putting me off.  The price for the DS1104Z-S Plus has come down considerably in the past year and its LA probe is still expensive, but half the price of the LA probe for the MSO5074.  I also don't know how to feel about buying tech that has been out for 7 years.  Another option would be to get an even cheaper scope like the DS1054Z, a separate (and more capable) signal generator, and continue to use my USB LA and hope I don't need the time correlated digital/analog signals that an in-scope LA would give me.

So I think my options are as follows, from most expensive to cheapest:

Thoughts?  Other options?

« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 02:52:44 am by typoknig »
 

Offline hexreader

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2020, 01:42:20 am »
Definitely NOT option 2. The Logic Analyser is very limited and the Signal Generator lacks output voltage (+- 2.5 Volts unterminated, +- 1.25 Volts 50 Ohm terminated). Cannot even generate a 3.3V logic signal.

Option 3 looks like a very good budget option.

Cannot comment on option 1 as I have no experience of the 5000 series.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 01:49:44 am by hexreader »
 

Offline typoknig

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2020, 02:44:25 am »
Looks like the signal generator on the MSO5074 has the same amplitude limitation as the much older DS1104Z-S Plus.  The DG1022Z on the other hand (once hacked) supports an amplitude of +-5V up to 10MHz, +-2.5V from 10MHz to 30MHz, and +- 1.25V from 30MHz to 60MHz.  None of those limitations affect my current use case, but it is still good to know!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 03:01:24 am by typoknig »
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2020, 03:16:56 am »
The 1054Z is a classic entry level scope with a lot of capability for the price.  It will handle 4 channels and comes with the bundled serial decoding software - your LA will will get you more digital channels if you need them.  This will leave room in your budget for a Siglent 2042 generator.  It might be the last generator you ever need.

Another option to consider is a Siglent SDS1104X-E and the 2042 generator.
 

Offline TurboTom

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2020, 07:06:50 am »
If you decide to have a go with a separate AWG, I'ld rather recommend the DG811 - if you can live with the ridiculous casing design - and hack it: cheaper, more recent design and more capable.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2020, 09:24:06 am »
For about $650, you can buy a Rigol DS1054Z and a DG812 both of which can easily be hacked up to DS1104Z / DG992, all the info is here in the test equipment forum.

I have recently bought an MSO5074 for $999 but I refused to pay nearly half the cost of the scope for the LA probes. Some here have x-rayed the official probes and reverse-engineered them using the same (1 GHz) ICs but the cost is still too high IMHO.

Being a masochist, I designed my own LA probes for the MSO5000 and the thread about it is here.  I'm toying with the idea of having a bunch of them made but fear that I will only sell 3 of them and drag my already severely damaged life savings down even further (my 401k is down 28% from it's high in Feb). If you can do 0603 SMT work yourself, I will likely be ordering more PCBs in a couple of weeks.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline aristarchus

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2020, 11:01:47 am »
Some time ago, 3-4 years back was in your place.
At the time I opted for the DS1104Z Plus with DG1022Z.
(DG1022Z is now hacked to a DG1062Z)

If I was to decide now, I would go for MSO5074 + DG812

There is lot of debate on which LA to got, it depends on what you want to use it for.
Two years later I also added the RPL1116 LA to the scope (although for very simple low-bandwidth <20MHz usage I still use a saleae 8ch clone).
IMHO LA from a MSO might be better electronic-wise (levels etc) but for high level functionality (protocol) a stand alone USB LA proves to be much better and easier to use.
 
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Offline TurboTom

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2020, 11:46:21 am »
DG811 (single channel) and DG812 (dual channel) feature 100% identical hardware, together with the complete DG800 / DG900 line. So if you're out to "liberate" the instrument, you can save the twentysomething Euros or Dollars for the dual channel model and just go with the least expensive option. I've done that -- works! Look at the related "hacking" thread for more info.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2020, 12:11:29 pm »
DG811 (single channel) and DG812 (dual channel) feature 100% identical hardware, together with the complete DG800 / DG900 line. So if you're out to "liberate" the instrument, you can save the twentysomething Euros or Dollars for the dual channel model and just go with the least expensive option. I've done that -- works! Look at the related "hacking" thread for more info.
At TEquipment.net, the DG811 is $1 more than the DG812! Don't forget there's a 6% discount available from these prices although you will still pay tax in many states so, in Michigan, they effectively pay my 6% sales tax for me.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline typoknig

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2020, 01:11:35 pm »
If you decide to have a go with a separate AWG, I'ld rather recommend the DG811 - if you can live with the ridiculous casing design - and hack it: cheaper, more recent design and more capable.

I had considered the DG811, but you are right, it is hideous.  One additional downside of the DG8XX/DG9XX series over the DG10XXZ series is lack of LXI Ethernet.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 03:18:49 pm by typoknig »
 

Offline typoknig

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2020, 01:14:36 pm »
For about $650, you can buy a Rigol DS1054Z and a DG812 both of which can easily be hacked up to DS1104Z / DG992, all the info is here in the test equipment forum.

I have recently bought an MSO5074 for $999 but I refused to pay nearly half the cost of the scope for the LA probes. Some here have x-rayed the official probes and reverse-engineered them using the same (1 GHz) ICs but the cost is still too high IMHO.

Being a masochist, I designed my own LA probes for the MSO5000 and the thread about it is here.  I'm toying with the idea of having a bunch of them made but fear that I will only sell 3 of them and drag my already severely damaged life savings down even further (my 401k is down 28% from it's high in Feb). If you can do 0603 SMT work yourself, I will likely be ordering more PCBs in a couple of weeks.

Yeah, I've been keeping up with your work (good job!) trying to decide if I wanted to go the DIY route for the LA probe.  And we are in the same sinking 401K boat.  Today is the day COVID-19 takes my money and not just the interest I've earned over the past decade :(
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2020, 09:19:33 pm »
I had considered the DG811, but you are right, it is hideous.  One additional downside of the DG8XX/DG9XX series over the DG10XXZ series is lack of LXI Ethernet.

LXI ethernet is available with a $4 USB to RJ45 adapter.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2020, 01:34:01 am »
Where is Tautech?  :popcorn:
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online tautech

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Re: MSO5000 vs DS1104Z-S Plus
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2020, 02:59:50 am »
Where is Tautech?  :popcorn:
Here, watching the waffle ....when I'm not too busy selling stuff !

Electro Fan said all I would've as this is the experience I have with NZ buyers however some don't always have the budget for SDG2042X and SDS1104X-E so instead opt for SDG1032X
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 


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