Author Topic: MSO5074 MSO options  (Read 1022 times)

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Offline LootMaster

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MSO5074 MSO options
« on: October 18, 2020, 06:08:03 pm »
So I was wondering if you guys like your 5074 scope and if you were satisfied? I heard the buttons are cheap? Really?

And also, how do you like the MSO options?

I'm saying that because I have a siglent sds2352XE that is still late and and supposed to arrive at Saelig pretty soon, and then to me.

But now... I discovered a few thing, and am a bit pissed.

X-E

http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 06:51:18 pm by LootMaster »
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2020, 06:24:40 pm »
So I was wondering if you guys like your 5074 scope and if you were satisfied? I heard the buttons are cheap? Really?

And also, how do you like the MSO options?

I'm saying that because I have a siglent sds2352XE that is still late and and supposed to arrive at Saelig pretty soon, and then to me.

But now... I discovered a few thing, and am a bit pissed.

IMHO the Siglent is the better scope overall. I did a comparison here.

https://youtu.be/93QUNt1z6Gw



Oops wrong Siglent.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 06:42:01 pm by Howardlong »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2020, 06:28:10 pm »
IMHO the Siglent is the better scope overall.

And only 50% more expensive.  :popcorn:

Are we allowed to propose a $2000 'scope as well? I bet there's one that's even better, it's turtles all the way up!
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 06:34:46 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2020, 06:30:14 pm »
If you are looking to perform a comparison I would suggest the MSO7000
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2020, 06:38:59 pm »
http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm

I don't got a 20000X.

Also, I started that comparison videos... The menu squashes the waveform and not on the Rigol?... Seriously ?? How is that an issue?

No 50 ohms... Yeah kind bad.

The hack is a frikkin software hack no screwdriver, how is this bullshit legal?

How is a customer supposed to make a correct decision with bullshit like this?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 07:02:59 pm by LootMaster »
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2020, 06:40:37 pm »
Sorry, yes, my vid compared the MSO5000 to the SDS2000X+ not the SDS2000X-E.

Apologies for my confusion.
 

Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2020, 06:48:18 pm »
so the MSO5074, how shitty are the provided 4 probes for the 5074?

if they give you 350mhz probes this is a scam to knock off all other competitors.
 

Online tautech

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2020, 06:54:32 pm »
http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm

I don't got a 20000X.

Also, I started that comparison videos... The menu squashes the waveform and not on the Rigol?... Seriously ?? How is that an issue?

No 50 ohms... Yeah ok, but 2 channels more.

The hack is a frikkin software hack no screwdriver, how is this bullshit legal?

How is a customer supposed to make a correct decision with bullshit like this?
Yeah it's hard to keep up with all the features in one brand let alone between brands.  :scared:

Menu/graticule compression has been addressed very recently in new SDS5000X FW and should be addressed shortly with new SDS2kX Plus firmware that is under construction/testing right now.
2 menu display options are now offered, floating (hides waveform) or embedded (compresses waveform).
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2020, 07:05:01 pm »
I might stay with Siglent. Just because I don't like companies that pull off half-bullshit tactics. There should never be different particular/company treatment.

Everybody needs to get sued, hacks should be difficult and risky and websites should obey the law.

I am VERY displeased by these sneaky dishonest tactics.

And a bunch of little illegals acting like this is cool. A scope is like legal software, you don't just be a hacker with cracked SW when everybody
else is paying seeing this as a legal requirement.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 07:11:45 pm by LootMaster »
 

Online tautech

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2020, 07:29:13 pm »
I might stay with Siglent. Just because I don't like companies that pull off half-bullshit tactics. There should never be different particular/company treatment.

Everybody needs to get sued, hacks should be difficult and risky and websites should obey the law.

I am VERY displeased by these sneaky dishonest tactics.

And a bunch of little illegals acting like this is cool. A scope is like legal software, you don't just be a hacker with cracked SW when everybody
else is paying seeing this as a legal requirement.
:-DD

If you take the time to hunt back to the early posts when this was a newly formed forum you'd see this practice of hacking gear was happening 10+ years ago.....nothing new invented by it recently at all and over the years some discussion as to whether it's ethical or not.
We been there, done that and argued all over the place about it.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2020, 07:31:02 pm »
I'm not sure how inflammatory language is the best way to go about getting you helpful answers.

MSO5000 probes are OK except the 1x/10x switch is too easily inadvertently switched, and it's not easy to see which way it is switched. In the past, I just switch them to 10x and add a dab of glue to maintain that setting. I hardly ever use 1x probes on a bench scope.
 

Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2020, 07:35:27 pm »
Well if you been there and done that.

Should have come up with the right answer: Its not ethical, its totally unacceptable.

There should be a single model, at 1500$. For the MSO5074....MSO5354.

There should be none of these "unlocked" features. It should be 1 model, 2 channel or 4 channel.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2020, 07:45:15 pm »
I think the forum doesn't need an ethics lesson from someone who has just bought a scope and, having find out that he could have hacked a few bucks from it, is now seeking to do a swap for an "upgradeable" one.

BTW, just to weight in in your ethical consciousness, the Siglents are easier to "upgrade" than the Rigols... always have been. Out.
 
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Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2020, 07:55:00 pm »
Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well

2N3055 cheered me up as I had this half-half feeling of making it work with an adapter. The importance of 4 channel vs the importance of seeing truly vs my personnal convictions to not fall into this pettiness. seen above.

Quote from 2N3055 in the hacking MSO5000 thread.

You cannot just hack it.. For higher frequencies you need to use 50 OHm path, and that has to exist in the scope from input connector to A/D converter. It has to be controlled impedance layout.
Basically, it has to exist as separate part of PCB made for just that purpose that is just not there on MSO5000 board.

Chipset and front end chip in MSO7000 and MSO5000 is identical and capable of same bandwidth (frontend chipset is capable of few GHz actually). It's just that your signal from input BNC cannot get to it without being destroyed.
For a scope of this class it is more important that it has good 300 MHz with good signal integrity(which is a miracle itself), that hacking it to 1GHz with distorted signal. You get worse scope actually, and much more noise...
 

Online tautech

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2020, 07:59:51 pm »
Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well
Yer wot ?  :-//

No different to reprogramming/flashing a vehicle's ECU to another performance level.
Done everyday all over the world and no one even turns a head to worry about it.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2020, 08:03:44 pm »
I think the forum doesn't need an ethics lesson from someone who has just bought a scope and, having find out that he could have hacked a few bucks from it, is now seeking to do a swap for an "upgradeable" one.

BTW, just to weight in in your ethical consciousness, the Siglents are easier to "upgrade" than the Rigols... always have been. Out.
Agreed. Rigol's and Siglent's business model is to get cheap, hackable hardware out there in the hands of hobbyists and small companies in order to gain market share. Besides that Keysight doesn't object to hacking as well for as long as you don't try to make money by hacking their equipment.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2020, 08:06:53 pm »
Alrighty alrighty then....

What about this?

http://www.saelig.com/siglent-sds2000x-series/sds2074x.htm

Time to put this legal jargon to the wayside for now...I wanna get "even" then.

Whats the situation here? Do I need a screwdriver and to undo a sticker?
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2020, 09:08:55 pm »
Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well

2N3055 cheered me up as I had this half-half feeling of making it work with an adapter. The importance of 4 channel vs the importance of seeing truly vs my personnal convictions to not fall into this pettiness. seen above.

Quote from 2N3055 in the hacking MSO5000 thread.

You cannot just hack it.. For higher frequencies you need to use 50 OHm path, and that has to exist in the scope from input connector to A/D converter. It has to be controlled impedance layout.
Basically, it has to exist as separate part of PCB made for just that purpose that is just not there on MSO5000 board.

Chipset and front end chip in MSO7000 and MSO5000 is identical and capable of same bandwidth (frontend chipset is capable of few GHz actually). It's just that your signal from input BNC cannot get to it without being destroyed.
For a scope of this class it is more important that it has good 300 MHz with good signal integrity(which is a miracle itself), that hacking it to 1GHz with distorted signal. You get worse scope actually, and much more noise...

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, this is taken out of context. This was my response to poster arguing that MSO5000 could be "opened" to 1 GHz, because it uses similar/same frontend as Rigol 1GHz scopes... It is perfectly up to spec at 350 MHz. I do argue that proper 50 Ohm input path would make difference for signal integrity at 350 MHz, and would prefer that they implemented one on 350 MHz scope. But with external 50 OHm terminators you should get acceptable results.
 

Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2020, 09:26:25 pm »
I need to check the signal integrity of 1.7 nS rise-time and such.

100-150 MHz signals will require that, to see correctly.
 

Offline uski

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2020, 02:37:21 am »
Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well

Can you please elaborate ? How exactly is hacking a scope violating any patent or IP ?
Your position that it is illegal is just your opinion for now, can you please point me to the exact law or agreement making this illegal ?
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2020, 04:04:39 am »
Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well
you dont come and yell to everybody in the house due to little little things your pet hates just figured out (but mainly due too your illiteracy and ignorance). thats not a good manner. at least when entering, you greet and make an intro here (minimum)...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/new-member-please-introduce-yourself/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/?topicseen

have you read this? esp point 6
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/

and if you want to play boldheaded, you can show us something in places like here...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/show-us-your-mains-waveform!/?topicscreen
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/?topicscreen

you should look around first instead of yelling, if you still feel uneasy then you can bugger off. most of people here came to hack (improve) their devices, get the latest/best infos about news, tools, skills etc. otoh, pros dont blame their tools. cheers.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 04:06:54 am by Mechatrommer »
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline LootMaster

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2020, 04:17:50 am »
O yeah??? O yeah???

Maybe I just came here to argue with toxic people as above. :-DD
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2020, 04:52:11 am »
it seems we have another 2+2=22 guy... only a few i've honored in my ignore list, do you want the honor too? ;D
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline uski

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2020, 05:03:14 am »
O yeah??? O yeah???

Maybe I just came here to argue with toxic people as above. :-DD

To argue : "give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view."

For now you are not arguing. You expressed your opinion, with which many people are in disagreement, and you did not support your claims.
So let me ask you again, how exactly is hacking a scope a violation of patent or IP law?

PS: let me add that there are representatives of multiple manufacturers in this very forum, answering in their official capacity. They are probably all aware of the "hacks" and probably happy to see the additional customers it brings to them. If they wanted to close these hacks, they could have done it years ago. My opinion (no offense) is that you are a bit naive as to what the marketing strategy is, here.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 05:05:11 am by uski »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: MSO5074 MSO options
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2020, 06:58:19 am »
I might stay with Siglent. Just because I don't like companies that pull off half-bullshit tactics. There should never be different particular/company treatment.

Everybody needs to get sued, hacks should be difficult and risky and websites should obey the law.

I am VERY displeased by these sneaky dishonest tactics.

And a bunch of little illegals acting like this is cool. A scope is like legal software, you don't just be a hacker with cracked SW when everybody
else is paying seeing this as a legal requirement.
:-DD

If you take the time to hunt back to the early posts when this was a newly formed forum you'd see this practice of hacking gear was happening 10+ years ago.....nothing new invented by it recently at all and over the years some discussion as to whether it's ethical or not.
We been there, done that and argued all over the place about it.

I was around in those days, Rigol had just become a thing and I think it was Dave's second video that was about the scope. I think Rigol owe Dave a lot but at the same time is was the discovery of how to hack them that made them the go to scope for the hobbyist and propelled them. I suspect it was accidental at first, they wanted a quick way to end of line set the model and never dreamed people would go looking and find out they could do what Rigol themselves do as it was left unlocked.

I found Dave but looking for my first DSO as he had just released his first video on the scope.
 


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