EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: LootMaster on October 18, 2020, 06:08:03 pm
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So I was wondering if you guys like your 5074 scope and if you were satisfied? I heard the buttons are cheap? Really?
And also, how do you like the MSO options?
I'm saying that because I have a siglent sds2352XE that is still late and and supposed to arrive at Saelig pretty soon, and then to me.
But now... I discovered a few thing, and am a bit pissed.
X-E
http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm (http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm)
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So I was wondering if you guys like your 5074 scope and if you were satisfied? I heard the buttons are cheap? Really?
And also, how do you like the MSO options?
I'm saying that because I have a siglent sds2352XE that is still late and and supposed to arrive at Saelig pretty soon, and then to me.
But now... I discovered a few thing, and am a bit pissed.
IMHO the Siglent is the better scope overall. I did a comparison here.
https://youtu.be/93QUNt1z6Gw
Oops wrong Siglent.
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IMHO the Siglent is the better scope overall.
And only 50% more expensive. :popcorn:
Are we allowed to propose a $2000 'scope as well? I bet there's one that's even better, it's turtles all the way up!
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If you are looking to perform a comparison I would suggest the MSO7000
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http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm (http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm)
I don't got a 20000X.
Also, I started that comparison videos... The menu squashes the waveform and not on the Rigol?... Seriously ?? How is that an issue?
No 50 ohms... Yeah kind bad.
The hack is a frikkin software hack no screwdriver, how is this bullshit legal?
How is a customer supposed to make a correct decision with bullshit like this?
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Sorry, yes, my vid compared the MSO5000 to the SDS2000X+ not the SDS2000X-E.
Apologies for my confusion.
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so the MSO5074, how shitty are the provided 4 probes for the 5074?
if they give you 350mhz probes this is a scam to knock off all other competitors.
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http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm (http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm)
I don't got a 20000X.
Also, I started that comparison videos... The menu squashes the waveform and not on the Rigol?... Seriously ?? How is that an issue?
No 50 ohms... Yeah ok, but 2 channels more.
The hack is a frikkin software hack no screwdriver, how is this bullshit legal?
How is a customer supposed to make a correct decision with bullshit like this?
Yeah it's hard to keep up with all the features in one brand let alone between brands. :scared:
Menu/graticule compression has been addressed very recently in new SDS5000X FW and should be addressed shortly with new SDS2kX Plus firmware that is under construction/testing right now.
2 menu display options are now offered, floating (hides waveform) or embedded (compresses waveform).
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I might stay with Siglent. Just because I don't like companies that pull off half-bullshit tactics. There should never be different particular/company treatment.
Everybody needs to get sued, hacks should be difficult and risky and websites should obey the law.
I am VERY displeased by these sneaky dishonest tactics.
And a bunch of little illegals acting like this is cool. A scope is like legal software, you don't just be a hacker with cracked SW when everybody
else is paying seeing this as a legal requirement.
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I might stay with Siglent. Just because I don't like companies that pull off half-bullshit tactics. There should never be different particular/company treatment.
Everybody needs to get sued, hacks should be difficult and risky and websites should obey the law.
I am VERY displeased by these sneaky dishonest tactics.
And a bunch of little illegals acting like this is cool. A scope is like legal software, you don't just be a hacker with cracked SW when everybody
else is paying seeing this as a legal requirement.
:-DD
If you take the time to hunt back to the early posts when this was a newly formed forum you'd see this practice of hacking gear was happening 10+ years ago.....nothing new invented by it recently at all and over the years some discussion as to whether it's ethical or not.
We been there, done that and argued all over the place about it.
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I'm not sure how inflammatory language is the best way to go about getting you helpful answers.
MSO5000 probes are OK except the 1x/10x switch is too easily inadvertently switched, and it's not easy to see which way it is switched. In the past, I just switch them to 10x and add a dab of glue to maintain that setting. I hardly ever use 1x probes on a bench scope.
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Well if you been there and done that.
Should have come up with the right answer: Its not ethical, its totally unacceptable.
There should be a single model, at 1500$. For the MSO5074....MSO5354.
There should be none of these "unlocked" features. It should be 1 model, 2 channel or 4 channel.
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I think the forum doesn't need an ethics lesson from someone who has just bought a scope and, having find out that he could have hacked a few bucks from it, is now seeking to do a swap for an "upgradeable" one.
BTW, just to weight in in your ethical consciousness, the Siglents are easier to "upgrade" than the Rigols... always have been. Out.
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Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well
2N3055 cheered me up as I had this half-half feeling of making it work with an adapter. The importance of 4 channel vs the importance of seeing truly vs my personnal convictions to not fall into this pettiness. seen above.
Quote from 2N3055 in the hacking MSO5000 thread.
You cannot just hack it.. For higher frequencies you need to use 50 OHm path, and that has to exist in the scope from input connector to A/D converter. It has to be controlled impedance layout.
Basically, it has to exist as separate part of PCB made for just that purpose that is just not there on MSO5000 board.
Chipset and front end chip in MSO7000 and MSO5000 is identical and capable of same bandwidth (frontend chipset is capable of few GHz actually). It's just that your signal from input BNC cannot get to it without being destroyed.
For a scope of this class it is more important that it has good 300 MHz with good signal integrity(which is a miracle itself), that hacking it to 1GHz with distorted signal. You get worse scope actually, and much more noise...
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Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well
Yer wot ? :-//
No different to reprogramming/flashing a vehicle's ECU to another performance level.
Done everyday all over the world and no one even turns a head to worry about it.
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I think the forum doesn't need an ethics lesson from someone who has just bought a scope and, having find out that he could have hacked a few bucks from it, is now seeking to do a swap for an "upgradeable" one.
BTW, just to weight in in your ethical consciousness, the Siglents are easier to "upgrade" than the Rigols... always have been. Out.
Agreed. Rigol's and Siglent's business model is to get cheap, hackable hardware out there in the hands of hobbyists and small companies in order to gain market share. Besides that Keysight doesn't object to hacking as well for as long as you don't try to make money by hacking their equipment.
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Alrighty alrighty then....
What about this?
http://www.saelig.com/siglent-sds2000x-series/sds2074x.htm (http://www.saelig.com/siglent-sds2000x-series/sds2074x.htm)
Time to put this legal jargon to the wayside for now...I wanna get "even" then.
Whats the situation here? Do I need a screwdriver and to undo a sticker?
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Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well
2N3055 cheered me up as I had this half-half feeling of making it work with an adapter. The importance of 4 channel vs the importance of seeing truly vs my personnal convictions to not fall into this pettiness. seen above.
Quote from 2N3055 in the hacking MSO5000 thread.
You cannot just hack it.. For higher frequencies you need to use 50 OHm path, and that has to exist in the scope from input connector to A/D converter. It has to be controlled impedance layout.
Basically, it has to exist as separate part of PCB made for just that purpose that is just not there on MSO5000 board.
Chipset and front end chip in MSO7000 and MSO5000 is identical and capable of same bandwidth (frontend chipset is capable of few GHz actually). It's just that your signal from input BNC cannot get to it without being destroyed.
For a scope of this class it is more important that it has good 300 MHz with good signal integrity(which is a miracle itself), that hacking it to 1GHz with distorted signal. You get worse scope actually, and much more noise...
Just to make sure we are all on the same page, this is taken out of context. This was my response to poster arguing that MSO5000 could be "opened" to 1 GHz, because it uses similar/same frontend as Rigol 1GHz scopes... It is perfectly up to spec at 350 MHz. I do argue that proper 50 Ohm input path would make difference for signal integrity at 350 MHz, and would prefer that they implemented one on 350 MHz scope. But with external 50 OHm terminators you should get acceptable results.
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I need to check the signal integrity of 1.7 nS rise-time and such.
100-150 MHz signals will require that, to see correctly.
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Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well
Can you please elaborate ? How exactly is hacking a scope violating any patent or IP ?
Your position that it is illegal is just your opinion for now, can you please point me to the exact law or agreement making this illegal ?
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Because these forums dont give a shit about the law, zero regards for patents or IP as well
you dont come and yell to everybody in the house due to little little things your pet hates just figured out (but mainly due too your illiteracy and ignorance). thats not a good manner. at least when entering, you greet and make an intro here (minimum)...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/new-member-please-introduce-yourself/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/new-member-please-introduce-yourself/)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/?topicseen (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/?topicseen)
have you read this? esp point 6
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/forum-rules-please-read/)
and if you want to play boldheaded, you can show us something in places like here...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/show-us-your-mains-waveform!/?topicscreen (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/show-us-your-mains-waveform!/?topicscreen)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/?topicscreen (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/show-us-your-square-wave/?topicscreen)
you should look around first instead of yelling, if you still feel uneasy then you can bugger off. most of people here came to hack (improve) their devices, get the latest/best infos about news, tools, skills etc. otoh, pros dont blame their tools. cheers.
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O yeah??? O yeah???
Maybe I just came here to argue with toxic people as above. :-DD
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it seems we have another 2+2=22 guy... only a few i've honored in my ignore list, do you want the honor too? ;D
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O yeah??? O yeah???
Maybe I just came here to argue with toxic people as above. :-DD
To argue : "give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view."
For now you are not arguing. You expressed your opinion, with which many people are in disagreement, and you did not support your claims.
So let me ask you again, how exactly is hacking a scope a violation of patent or IP law?
PS: let me add that there are representatives of multiple manufacturers in this very forum, answering in their official capacity. They are probably all aware of the "hacks" and probably happy to see the additional customers it brings to them. If they wanted to close these hacks, they could have done it years ago. My opinion (no offense) is that you are a bit naive as to what the marketing strategy is, here.
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I might stay with Siglent. Just because I don't like companies that pull off half-bullshit tactics. There should never be different particular/company treatment.
Everybody needs to get sued, hacks should be difficult and risky and websites should obey the law.
I am VERY displeased by these sneaky dishonest tactics.
And a bunch of little illegals acting like this is cool. A scope is like legal software, you don't just be a hacker with cracked SW when everybody
else is paying seeing this as a legal requirement.
:-DD
If you take the time to hunt back to the early posts when this was a newly formed forum you'd see this practice of hacking gear was happening 10+ years ago.....nothing new invented by it recently at all and over the years some discussion as to whether it's ethical or not.
We been there, done that and argued all over the place about it.
I was around in those days, Rigol had just become a thing and I think it was Dave's second video that was about the scope. I think Rigol owe Dave a lot but at the same time is was the discovery of how to hack them that made them the go to scope for the hobbyist and propelled them. I suspect it was accidental at first, they wanted a quick way to end of line set the model and never dreamed people would go looking and find out they could do what Rigol themselves do as it was left unlocked.
I found Dave but looking for my first DSO as he had just released his first video on the scope.
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So I was wondering if you guys like your 5074 scope and if you were satisfied? I heard the buttons are cheap? Really?
And also, how do you like the MSO options?
I'm saying that because I have a siglent sds2352XE that is still late and and supposed to arrive at Saelig pretty soon, and then to me.
But now... I discovered a few thing, and am a bit pissed.
X-E
http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm (http://www.saelig.com/sds2000x-e-series/sds2352x-e.htm)
I think soon you will have pissed the whole forum off! And then "the hammer" comes out.
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I might stay with Siglent. Just because I don't like companies that pull off half-bullshit tactics. There should never be different particular/company treatment.
Everybody needs to get sued, hacks should be difficult and risky and websites should obey the law.
I am VERY displeased by these sneaky dishonest tactics.
And a bunch of little illegals acting like this is cool. A scope is like legal software, you don't just be a hacker with cracked SW when everybody
else is paying seeing this as a legal requirement.
:-DD
If you take the time to hunt back to the early posts when this was a newly formed forum you'd see this practice of hacking gear was happening 10+ years ago.....nothing new invented by it recently at all and over the years some discussion as to whether it's ethical or not.
We been there, done that and argued all over the place about it.
I was around in those days, Rigol had just become a thing and I think it was Dave's second video that was about the scope. I think Rigol owe Dave a lot but at the same time is was the discovery of how to hack them that made them the go to scope for the hobbyist and propelled them. I suspect it was accidental at first, they wanted a quick way to end of line set the model and never dreamed people would go looking and find out they could do what Rigol themselves do as it was left unlocked.
I found Dave but looking for my first DSO as he had just released his first video on the scope.
Yep Simon all that's on record as was the adding of the additional memory chips to SDS1102CNL to make them a CML which was fresh news to me when joining up here 7 years and a week ago. :o
We are so lucky as equipment users to have available what we have now and how the industry has progressed in just those few years.
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I need to check the signal integrity of 1.7 nS rise-time and such.
100-150 MHz signals will require that, to see correctly.
If you are more interested in signal integrity, you can get a vintage Lecroy DDA-120 for around $300-$400 on eBay... 1GHz with tons of features (16Mpts, 8GSa/s, 50Ohm input...)
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In Europe / Germany its completly legal to do whatever you want with your own gear. You can hack / modify / open it if you want to. You can install a water cooling if you think it will help. So there is no "hope you get caught" :-P
You are only loosing warranty..
But you can still revert the Software hack. And even a Hardware mod if you have new warranty stickers / can remove them without destroing them...
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"In Europe / Germany its completely legal" I envy you but I'm in California republic.
I also agree that, when I bought something I should have rights - just like human rights - to work on it as I like.
Sb says there shall only be one model, 2CH or 4CH, no scope mfg in the earth do that. I issue PO for $500K scope, various h/w and s/w options.
As for BNC, its BW is 3GHz. I do like Keysight/Tek/Lecory uses extra probe contacts, but they also in change. As far as there is USB near by, active probe is not difficult to add.
I personally not sure shall I pickup Keysight or MSO5074. I issued an PO a few months ago for co. the probes are 4x expensive than a 2nd 1GBW scope.
At last I would say, sampling rate is more important. Lab has a 200M Tek simply garbage, DOS like GUI, a Eth card costs me $600+. My 1GBW has 5GSa much better, ETH card only $200.