EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: ElectronicsNewbie on August 04, 2015, 10:44:36 pm
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Hello members,
After doing a long research and saving some serious money I decided to get the CD-2BD model for my personal, home use.
I think the motto: "you get what you pay for" is mostly true... but in this case, it's a little bit different...
The soldering performance is excellent, the design is fine but the damn thing wobbles like crazy on my desk! :rant:
Below is a video that describes the problem:
https://youtu.be/YmaAblWp1xg
In short: it's tricky to adjust the temperature when the unit wobbles.
Notice the wider gap on the bottom right:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40261400/the%20gap.jpg)
I don't get it, that my old Chinese 50EUR (incl 23% VAT)soldering station is rock solid on the desk compared to the top class unit that retails for 375EUR + VAT |O
Of course, I know that I can return the unit to the seller but I'm not happy to pay extra money to have it shipped back and be without a working soldering station.
I have sent the JBC an email regarding the issue one week ago. They replied to me that the issue will be forwarded to the R&D team...
When I have some response from the I will post the follow up :(
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Send it back and get a Weller, Hakko, or Pace.
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Very interesting. I did consider the JBC CD-1BD, but as I was funds limited, I went with the Hakko FX-951. Have to say mine doesn't wobble. I hope that JBC resolves this quickly and to your satisfaction. That is seriously expensive to wobble like a Weeble.
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It's not common, or there'd be a ton of complaints (as you say, for this kind of money...).
Based on what little is visible in the photo, it appears it should be an easy fix (thinking simple assembly error when the case was screwed together).
For example, have you removed the enclosure screws to open it, inspect for debris, ... that would cause it not to seat properly (i.e. flashing that wasn't fully removed or piece stuck in-between the case halves), clear if necessary, then reseat the two halves and reassemble? :-//
Simple, and no need to send anything back if it solves the problem. >:D
Detailed photos of the case halves taken apart might help as well if you don't see the issue (can't hurt). ;D
BTW, if you do have to return it, I'd request they send/email you a return label (or give you a courier account number & print out one yourself).
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The level of disinterest from the manufacturer is what would bother me.
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My DI unit with separate tool holder and my CP Unit don't wobble, bummer, as they are nice units.
I suspect a rare manufacturing defect, persist with it, I would be surprised if it doesn't get sorted out but this sort of issue can take a while.
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Send it back and get a Weller, Hakko, or Pace.
As far as I recall I have never used a Pace, but Weller and Hakko are not even on the same planet as JBC.
CD-2BC owner here.
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Send it back and get a Weller, Hakko, or Pace.
As far as I recall I have never used a Pace, but Weller and Hakko are not even on the same planet as JBC.
CD-2BC owner here.
I've used them all. Pace make excellent irons, but you need to have large hands for the irons to be comfortable.
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My 2BB is also wobling, but I thought it was my cheapass table.. can't remember to see an gap in in though (Packed away since I use an DI now, and have no room for them both on the table)
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Weller is widely known, but doesn't have the best thermal system, by far.
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By now, I would have taken the base apart and fixed it. Or used some rubber feet .
It would have taken less time than writing emails, making a video, uploading it and reading the responses all this while the base still wobbles......
But that's me.... :)
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We have several of these, as well as every other model JBC, and none of them wobble.
As another has suggested, once in a while, we did get one slightly assembled wrong, but it was a quick easy fix.
I always love the ... "my wheel nuts are loose" .. "buy another car!!" ... replies :-)
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Where is that CD-2BD soldering station made?
Units only say EU from what I've seen, but it seems they're made in Spain (where JBC is based).
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Where is that CD-2BD soldering station made?
Units only say EU from what I've seen, but it seems they're made in Spain (where JBC is based).
Thanks for the info. I have lived in the EU for many years. Tolerances in production don't surprise me when they come from Spain.
For electronics or hand tools?
I've seen examples for hand tools that would give one that impression. But I'm not aware of anything in the way in electronics made in Spain other than the JBC products. And the teardown photos show they're rather well made.
Makes me think this particular unit simply slipped through the QC inspection (namely the flashing from the injection molding process, as I doubt they put it on a known flat surface and rock/wobble test it :P), as this sort of thing just doesn't seem to be all that common. Not seeing piles and piles of complaints at any rate.
FWIW, take a look at the Weller WMD-3 repair (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/weller-wmd-3-repair/msg210583/#msg210583) thread for photos of the internals on a Weller WD1 power unit, and watch the video to see the guts of a JBC CD-2BB. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjEYI5WsLBI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjEYI5WsLBI)
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I just watched the tear down video, thanks, and compared with the WD-1 station I have. Without going into detail it absolutely confirms my impression. The JBC has too many ribbon cables (bad design), the plastic is very cheap and I can see twisted workmanship (board not aligned evenly too case and such). Or the use of rubber membrane switches… compared to micro switches in the Weller. :-//
You didn't actually answer my question though (hand tools, ....). :o
FWIW, I also own a Weller WD1 (+ WMP, WSP80, & WDH10T), and they're not perfect either. The LT series tips made in Bosnia have been of particular issue, but the issues affect their brand overall (Germany, Bosnia, and Mexico for example; precious little Weller made in the US anymore). If you check the WRM3 repair link and scroll down, there's photos of the innards of my WD1 you can compare to Balizoft's and yours (date codes floated between the 38 & 40th weeks of 2006 on mine). Definitely cost cutting going on in mine.
Regarding not going into details as you perceive them on the JBC (or any other device/tool), this is EEVBlog. Which means such detail is expected (unwritten rule). >:D
On a quick comparison, I see them as follows:- As per rubber membrane buttons, they can be capable of a high number of cycles if made well IME (i.e. remote controls). Conversely, micro switches can be made to be as cheap as possible, severely shortening their lifespan. I'd give a slight edge to the Weller on the basis they're easier to replace than repair the membrane (assuming there aren't any spares from JBC, so repair would be more involved).
- In regard to the ribbon cables, there's only 2 I'd be concerned about (non-display related), which is the same number if you've the USB board installed (WD1M). Only difference is termination (JBC terminates to solder pins, while Weller uses connectors <IDC male & soldered PCB female>), but I don't really see that as an issue. Overall, I'd say a toss up really.
- I do prefer the cast aluminum base to the Weller vs. a plastic base, but it's not the end of the world. It's not the only JBC design out there (have seen metal base plates in separate power units before), so this may be model dependent. Plastic on the Weller is meh IMHO, but it does it's job I guess (afraid the retention tabs will snap off, but I'd only need cross that bridge when it happens).
- Regarding the misaligned board, I'm not quite sure of what you're seeing. :-//
The JBC isn't perfect, but it's by no means an epic fail either. Same goes for the WD1. And either will make decent joints.
But between them, the JBC is a better performer. It also has the edge on tips (more profiles available, and the plating thickness is consistent).
The WX series gets very close to JBC performance wise, but you'll pay handsomely for it (WX1010 (http://www.tequipment.net/WellerWX1010.html); best street price I'm aware of before any further discounts). Most street prices are running ~$520 for this particular kit, putting it on par with the separate power unit & tool based models from JBC on price.
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I got me a Metcal mx-500 for about $300. Used base, hand piece and the auto shut off holder are brand new and authentic Metcal. Amazing soldering system.
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I've used a Hakko 951, and the JBC.... performance wise, they're pretty much the same...
However, the JBC seemed like it performed better at lower temperature, but that's only because the read out was off by about 20 degrees!
If I was in the market for a new iron, I'd take the Hakko ;)
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I've used Weller since I was a kid. My daughters even refer to that colour as "Weller Blue", and I've got on my bench three irons (a couple of TCP's and a WSL). I've owned and used there gas portables in the past (I don't do any field work now) - I've also owed Metcal and used JBC and others.
Weller aren't perfect but have proved very reliable for me since the early 80's - I think it's often what you get used to or been brought up with.
If I was an evangelist for one thing - it would be getting rid of sponge pads and solder suckers and using that gold coloured metal afro stuff AND top quality solder wick.
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Timeline of troubleshooting...
1990's Adds a piece of electrical tape problem solved.
2000's Checks on the net see if anyone else is having the problem.
2010's Rants on forum for people to join crusade to take down manufacturer.
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After doing a long research and saving some serious money I decided to get the CD-2BD model for my personal, home use.
I think the motto: "you get what you pay for" is mostly true... but in this case, it's a little bit different...
The soldering performance is excellent, the design is fine but the damn thing wobbles like crazy on my desk! :rant:
I also just bought the same unit, it's also "Weidinger edition" like yours. And it has exactly the same wobble problem and right corner wider gap. Looks like it's not just one time error, it's bad batch.
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I also just bought the same unit, it's also "Weidinger edition" like yours. And it has exactly the same wobble problem and right corner wider gap. Looks like it's not just one time error, it's bad batch.
Maybe (we're only talking a sample of 2). FWIW, Weidinger has had special editions in the past, which were cost reduced models (older tech, ... types of cost cutting used to meet Weidinger's specifications).
As per the issue itself, have you taken it apart to check for things like plastic flashing acting as a spacer between the two case halves?
Based on the photo in the first post, this really looks like a simple assembly issue, and would be an easy fix. The OP hasn't responded to this request (presume it's not with that unit), but it's well worth the little effort it would require. Particularly as it will mean you don't have to send it in for repair/replacement if it's the type of issue I've in mind. Which translates into no cost out of your pocket or loss of use while it's in transit, both of which should be sufficient motivation to open it up. >:D
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As per the issue itself, have you taken it apart to check for things like plastic flashing acting as a spacer between the two case halves?
There are no plastic mould remains between the halves or around the spacers where screws attach the halves. If you loose all 4 screws, the base is stabile, it warps when you tighten the screws.
Problem is "solved" if you leave right rear corner screw loose. I think I'll do just that (and maybe lock the screw with contact glue) instead of removing one rubber feet and putting something under it etc. Surely I will not send it anywhere because of this.
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There are no plastic mould remains between the halves or around the spacers where screws attach the halves. If you loose all 4 screws, the base is stabile, it warps when you tighten the screws.
Problem is "solved" if you leave right rear corner screw loose. I think I'll do just that (and maybe lock the screw with contact glue) instead of removing one rubber feet and putting something under it etc. Surely I will not send it anywhere because of this.
Simple fix. :-+
Photos might help visualize what's going on (what's causing the warp in the bottom half). ;)
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Photos might help visualize what's going on (what's causing the warp in the bottom half). ;)
Not sure what causes it, there are so many warped areas: upper case's rear part is warped upwards in the right rear corner. So that might cause it.
But is you look how tip cleaner's metal case is fitted, it's not completely flat to the surface and if case's rear corner would go lower, it's fitting would be even worse. Front panel warps also inside in the middle (if you look at it sidewise).
But this all is nitpicking. The wobble is real, but easily fixed. The case feels very sturdy and I even first thought that it's all die cast aluminium.
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When all the parts are slightly warped it sounds like an issue with the injection moulding thermoplastic or the treatment (cooling curve) after the moulding.
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When all the parts are slightly warped it sounds like an issue with the injection moulding thermoplastic or the treatment (cooling curve) after the moulding.
Sounds like it based on the latest information (was hoping photos could confirm this before mentioning it).
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I rechecked the tip cleaner's metal case: it's flush to the base without mounting screw installed but when you insert the screw and tighten it down, rear end of the metal case lifts a little. So the "problem" may be that the surface where the screw goes is not straight or spacer height is little low.
Then again: looks like the JBC in the Dave's teardown video also has bigger gap in the right front corner. And I could swear I saw it also wobbles, just look at 2:04-2:05: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjEYI5WsLBI&feature=youtu.be&t=122 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjEYI5WsLBI&feature=youtu.be&t=122)
:o :)
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I have the JBC modular setup for my soldering iron (separate base, iron cradle, and tip cleaner), as well as the JBC rework station. It's a beast, and there is no wobble. I can't speak for their other models though. I did pay a lot for the setup, but man, it's killer. Their tip selection is incredible and the thermal performance is insane. Fastest heating iron I've ever seen. They even post graphs of their uber fast temp recovery versus the other big brands. They're more than just talk: they walk the walk. That being said, I've had the pleasure of using an older Metcal and a couple Wellers (as well as Hakkos that I personally owned), but the JBC annihilates the others I've used when it comes to performance. We'll see how reliable it is years to come.
The units are heavy too. Despite being plastic, they weigh A LOT for their size. I imagine they have weights in the bottom of the chassis. It helps keep them really stable when I'm moving the iron around.
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I rechecked the tip cleaner's metal case: it's flush to the base without mounting screw installed but when you insert the screw and tighten it down, rear end of the metal case lifts a little. So the "problem" may be that the surface where the screw goes is not straight or spacer height is little low.
Could be a number of things, but I'm still wondering if the case parts were pulled too early (still hot enough the plastic shrank & deformed). Might even be the case was modified for some reason (molds modified), then they got Weidinger's order, and used the newer case with internals that didn't quite fit right without help (i.e. created some sort of spacer issue), that was correctable with installing the screw/s to specific depths. And perhaps the person that did the final assembly wasn't aware of this, and put them in too deep. May even be a combination of things. Who knows... photos could really help figure it out (all sides and some angles that cover multiple sides simultaneously). Up to you. 8)
It does sound solvable though. :-+
The units are heavy too. Despite being plastic, they weigh A LOT for their size. I imagine they have weights in the bottom of the chassis. It helps keep them really stable when I'm moving the iron around.
That would be due to the transformer in the bottom (heaviest part by far). ;)
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Well, I'll be a stuffed chook !! I take back what I said. I checked the last unit we bought app 1 yr ago and it has WOBBLE !! and yep, plastic mould error.
I remember it now, it was a new batch and had some firmware option changes (AND power setting REMOVED!), so I sent it to the cheap end of the factory.
A closer inspection confirms a mould fault !! It's not a lot and no one complained, so I never noticed it.
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Well, I'll be a stuffed chook !! I take back what I said. I checked the last unit we bought app 1 yr ago and it has WOBBLE !! and yep, plastic mould error.
So I guess a major recall is in order, luckily no one has yet been injured by the wobble. :scared:
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Time to heat up the tar, and collect a bunch of feathers. :-DD
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Intrigued, I looked at the base of my CP-2C (integrated micro-tweezer station), which looks identical to the base of a CD-2BD, if I look really closely perhaps the right hand side gap is a little bigger, but no wobble.
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Hello guys!
Sorry for the delay. In the meantime, I could only write: "I'm still waiting for the response"... :=\
When I started this thread, I forgot to mention some kind of corrosion on my iron's handpiece holder (the sleep function contact thing):
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40261400/2015-07-20%2019.27.02.jpg)
It's not a big deal to me as is the wobble problem.
Follow-up below:
My first mail to JBC about the issue was sent on 27.07.2015. Then, two days after they replied to wait for a reply... then, almost AFTER a month (20.08.2015) I decided to resend my email. Three days ago (24.08.2015) the offered me to take my unit for inspection, and then send me a replacement one. Today, (27.08.2015) after troubles with courier service, my unit is on it's way to JBC.
Until my problem isn't resolved, I won't post my personal feedback or review on this whole experience because I try to be objective as much as possible O0 >:D
Of course I'm without the soldering iron now.
I have tried to reply to your comments as best as I could. I didn't took any extra photos of the cases, because they wouldn't show a thing...
@GlowingGhoul, it's too late for it now... I have waited for a response from JBC so long, that European 14 day return policy has passed!
I'm curious how looks customer support with other brands. Anyone has experience?
@GreyWoolfe, as you can see, the case still isn't closed... Keep fingers crossed for me!
@nanofrog, the two plastic parts much, but are perfectly flush etc. There aren't any debris or left overy plastic parts...
No matter how much you loosen or tighten the screws it keeps on wobbling. Sometimes a little bit more or less but it is still enough to annoy.
@neslekkim, sorry to hear that your unit is also affected... I'm considering upgrade to DIT-2D if JBC offers some discount. I also hope that modular units have smaller risk of wobbling!
@DimitriP, thanks for your comment. I think issues like this shouldn't happen at this price point, the unit should be working and have passed the QC. I can't imagine buying 10 or more of these and having the need to fix each of them individualy. The unit should start paying for itself when you take it out of the box and put in on your bench. Consider that I live in eastern part of the Europe, where salary is still very low compared to western EU countries, I don't even try to compare it to American earnings... Or let me say it this way: in my country, the national lowest salary is as much as I have paid for this station. I personally like when my money is well spent, buying a quality electronics equipment is like investition to me.
As I wrote before there is no easy way to fix the issue, I think that even nonoriginal rubber feets would make it worse - it must fit well. In my case, the lower or upper (or both) parts of the case are bent.
@McCarthy, I agree with your point of view based on the Dave's teardown. In my case. I didn't want to take it apart because I want to have my quality issue/warranty claim done as fast as possible, as always there is slight chance that something may go wrong etc. Anyway, not happy to have the need to take apart the damn thing which is brand new!
@Shock, I love this one! "2010's Rants on forum for people to join crusade to take down manufacturer."
@et328, Thanks for info on your unit. As you said, they may come from the same faulty batch...
@nanofrog, I haven't noticed any plastic flashing, leftovers or any sharp points, debris etc. I think the cases are just bent (not easy to see) a bit and that's the main reason for the issue.
I confirm et328 words: "There are no plastic mould remains between the halves or around the spacers where screws attach the halves. If you loose all 4 screws, the base is stabile, it warps when you tighten the screws. " and "The case feels very sturdy and I even first thought that it's all die cast aluminium."
However in my case et328 solution didn't work - sometimes it wobbles more or little less. And as you know, I'm not going to glue it etc.
@dom0, I'm not an expert on this topic, but this sounds legitimate.
So, after all of this... I consider having the unit replaced with a new one that doesn't wobble but considering your replies I think this might be a lottery depending on the JBC quality control OR upgrade to modular model, the DIT-2D.
Thanks for your input and support :-+
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I was going to buy a JBC actually to see what I'm missing out on.
Can confirm my Weller WSD80/WSP80 and Hakko 951 don't wobble. :)
Still interested in a JBC though :)
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I was going to buy a JBC actually to see what I'm missing out on.
Can confirm my Weller WSD80/WSP80 and Hakko 951 don't wobble. :)
Still interested in a JBC though :)
W h y ?
Anything over $160 for a single soldering iron station is overpriced. In the case of the JBC,
Ok so it's a soldering iron with a built in temp sensor. WOW...at this rate of technological breakthroughs, we'll soon land on the moon too.
For the price it should be delivered by a tall leggy mouthy blonde if you know what I mean.
Wobbly or not. The price is disgustingly high I decided. Up there with $500 DVMs
I use a 17W Antex and have a 25W ($18) weller for when I need more heat.
There was no blonde involved and for this price I didn't expect one.
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I was going to buy a JBC actually to see what I'm missing out on.
Keep in mind, this is a whopping sample of 2 units from the same source (Weidinger). So lets' not declare this an epic QA/QC fail and break out the pitchforks and torches just yet. :-DD
The simple solution would be to skip Weidinger and buy elsewhere. ;) Better yet, get a modular unit (zero complaints). >:D
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I was going to buy a JBC actually to see what I'm missing out on.
Can confirm my Weller WSD80/WSP80 and Hakko 951 don't wobble. :)
Still interested in a JBC though :)
W h y ?
Anything over $160 for a single soldering iron station is overpriced. In the case of the JBC,
Ok so it's a soldering iron with a built in temp sensor. WOW...at this rate of technological breakthroughs, we'll soon land on the moon too.
For the price it should be delivered by a tall leggy mouthy blonde if you know what I mean.
Wobbly or not. The price is disgustingly high I decided. Up there with $500 DVMs
I use a 17W Antex and have a 25W ($18) weller for when I need more heat.
There was no blonde involved and for this price I didn't expect one.
Try soldering an 0201 that's on a ground plane, and has via in pad to three other ground plane layers. JBC, Metcal and Pace will cope. I doubt you'd get anywhere with anything else.
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Keep in mind, this is a whopping sample of 2 units from the same source (Weidinger).
3 units, digsys also has a JBC with wobble. I think that unit is not from Weidinger.
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I was going to buy a JBC actually to see what I'm missing out on.
Can confirm my Weller WSD80/WSP80 and Hakko 951 don't wobble. :)
Still interested in a JBC though :)
W h y ?
Anything over $160 for a single soldering iron station is overpriced. In the case of the JBC,
Ok so it's a soldering iron with a built in temp sensor. WOW...at this rate of technological breakthroughs, we'll soon land on the moon too.
For the price it should be delivered by a tall leggy mouthy blonde if you know what I mean.
Wobbly or not. The price is disgustingly high I decided. Up there with $500 DVMs
I use a 17W Antex and have a 25W ($18) weller for when I need more heat.
There was no blonde involved and for this price I didn't expect one.
Try soldering an 0201 that's on a ground plane, and has via in pad to three other ground plane layers. JBC, Metcal and Pace will cope. I doubt you'd get anywhere with anything else.
Can't say I've tried "that". Dealing with SMD's on a three or four layer board, sounds more like work than a hobby :)
And if it's "work" and someone else is paying for it, then I don't care how much they paid for their Pace ....
....
I just looked up the 0201 size (0.6 x 0.3 mm) . A soldering iron would be the least of my problems. I'd need to buy some overpriced optics first!
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Can confirm my Weller WSD80/WSP80 and Hakko 951 don't wobble. :)
Still interested in a JBC though :)
We have a new benchmark for high end soldering stations.
:)
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A good quality soldering station is one of the best improvements you can make to your workbench. Certainly far more valuable than how many digits your DMM has.
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A good quality soldering station is one of the best improvements you can make to your workbench. Certainly far more valuable than how many digits your DMM has.
That and some optics, my eyesight for close range stuff has got to the point where 0805 needs a magnifier and 0603 really benefits from a microscope. Down at 01005 then I'd need a microscope from one of the big four, but I never work with anything that small.
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Keep in mind, this is a whopping sample of 2 units from the same source (Weidinger).
3 units, digsys also has a JBC with wobble. I think that unit is not from Weidinger.
Well that changes everything then! :o Demand the CEO down to the janitor is dragged out into the street and publicly executed. If they refuse to comply, invade Spain. :-DD
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Keep in mind, this is a whopping sample of 2 units from the same source (Weidinger).
3 units, digsys also has a JBC with wobble. I think that unit is not from Weidinger.
Well that changes everything then! :o Demand the CEO down to the janitor is dragged out into the street and publicly executed. If they refuse to comply, invade Spain. :-DD
Then we could ransack and pillage the JBC factory. Then we could grab multiple RMVE or RMSE rework stations for ourselves and compatriots. >:D :clap:
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Keep in mind, this is a whopping sample of 2 units from the same source (Weidinger).
3 units, digsys also has a JBC with wobble. I think that unit is not from Weidinger.
Well that changes everything then! :o Demand the CEO down to the janitor is dragged out into the street and publicly executed. If they refuse to comply, invade Spain. :-DD
You're very welcome to invade us! There're too many of them, people prefer to call them tourists.
A well done invasion could be better than our shitty government and our shady politicians, so please do it!
I hope JBC solves this, it's one of the very few good technological companies in my messed up country.
I plan to build UniSolder (http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7218) and use one a JBC soldering iron tip, I would get the fast soldering performance by a lower cost!
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Yes have done that a few times, I have a tiny tip on the Weller and I use it exclusively for SMD work, you would be shocked at what I use it for,
some wouldn't even attempt it with a hot air station hehe! The Weller seems a better system than my FX-951 but I love the quick change tips on the Hakko and
its great for regular soldering. I'm going to get shot here but I feel the Weller has better temperature regulation and so much easier to change settings than the Hakko. However switching tips is a right pain.
Thinking about it, my Weller has to be something like 14 years old now, I bought it years ago!, it's still on the original pencil and heater.
But that JBC pencil looks a joy to use! :-+
I was going to buy a JBC actually to see what I'm missing out on.
Can confirm my Weller WSD80/WSP80 and Hakko 951 don't wobble. :)
Still interested in a JBC though :)
W h y ?
Anything over $160 for a single soldering iron station is overpriced. In the case of the JBC,
Ok so it's a soldering iron with a built in temp sensor. WOW...at this rate of technological breakthroughs, we'll soon land on the moon too.
For the price it should be delivered by a tall leggy mouthy blonde if you know what I mean.
Wobbly or not. The price is disgustingly high I decided. Up there with $500 DVMs
I use a 17W Antex and have a 25W ($18) weller for when I need more heat.
There was no blonde involved and for this price I didn't expect one.
Try soldering an 0201 that's on a ground plane, and has via in pad to three other ground plane layers. JBC, Metcal and Pace will cope. I doubt you'd get anywhere with anything else.
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You're very welcome to invade us! There're too many of them, people prefer to call them tourists.
Better to think of them as income, as PITA or not, they leave Euro's in their wake. >:D
A well done invasion could be better than our shitty government and our shady politicians, so please do it!
:-DD
Unfortunately, we've got our own to deal with ( :rant:), so it looks like you're on your own on this one... :box:
I plan to build UniSolder (http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7218) and use one a JBC soldering iron tip, I would get the fast soldering performance by a lower cost!
Not sure the performance is actually equal, but it seems usable (not aware of comparative testing). ;)
...[snip]...Weller has better temperature regulation and so much easier to change settings than the Hakko. However switching tips is a right pain.
Which Weller?
FWIW, I've a WSP80 iron, and multiple tip retainers for it (metal tube). By planning out which tips I need before soldering and loading them into the retainers, it makes tip changes very fast (~10 seconds or so).
There's a special tool for changing tips on the WMP (very thin wall deep hex wrench/socket), as the NT series tips are threaded. Tip swaps can be done in seconds as well, particularly using the rubber pad alone (trick is don't over tighten the tips).
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Seems like I will have a DIT-2D as a replacement for extra pay up... I hope this time there won't be any issues :)
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WSD80 with a WSP80 :)
Yes it just unscrews, but the Hakko you can just pull the hot tips straight out with the rubber pad.
You're very welcome to invade us! There're too many of them, people prefer to call them tourists.
Better to think of them as income, as PITA or not, they leave Euro's in their wake. >:D
A well done invasion could be better than our shitty government and our shady politicians, so please do it!
:-DD
Unfortunately, we've got our own to deal with ( :rant:), so it looks like you're on your own on this one... :box:
I plan to build UniSolder (http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7218) and use one a JBC soldering iron tip, I would get the fast soldering performance by a lower cost!
Not sure the performance is actually equal, but it seems usable (not aware of comparative testing). ;)
...[snip]...Weller has better temperature regulation and so much easier to change settings than the Hakko. However switching tips is a right pain.
Which Weller?
FWIW, I've a WSP80 iron, and multiple tip retainers for it (metal tube). By planning out which tips I need before soldering and loading them into the retainers, it makes tip changes very fast (~10 seconds or so).
There's a special tool for changing tips on the WMP (very thin wall deep hex wrench/socket), as the NT series tips are threaded. Tip swaps can be done in seconds as well, particularly using the rubber pad alone (trick is don't over tighten the tips).
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FWIW, my JBC is rock solid. No wobble, or other problems.
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Yes it just unscrews, but the Hakko you can just pull the hot tips straight out with the rubber pad.
Easy tip change is an important feature that is often overlooked. It increased the chance that you will use the right tip for the job. When I had a nut based Weller station I rarely changed the tip but with my current MX500 doing it all the time.
I also like the ability to easily rotate the tip. This way I can align hoof tips with the 'natural' orientation of the handle and the cable .
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I have to say, though, that for the cost of the JBC, I would be upset if it wobbled too. Not acceptable in something that is meant to be used as a professional station. But the station's performance is out of this world, and I'm finding that the tips last a good long time as well. Mine's seen heavy use for well over a year, and I've yet to replace a tip. They get abused, too, sometimes up to 800 or 850 (I forget...cranked as high as it goes) for some operations.
But I HATE their brass wool holder. The wool always goes to the back of the holder and gets all mangled up. My Hakko wool holder still has the original wool in it from 10 years ago. I replace the JBC wool about every month or so.
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Easy tip change is an important feature that is often overlooked.
Very true. :) But if it's down to say ~5 seconds difference per tip change, is it genuinely that much of a difference for a hobbyist? :-//
Please understand, I'm not trying to start a brand/tech war, just wondering how important a few seconds are when the worst case is still quite decent for people where things like man-hour expenses aren't likely part of their decision making process.
For disclosure, I prefer cartridge tips and would love to have JBC on my bench. ;D But I don't, as the tip costs took precedence in my case (JBC street prices hadn't come down yet).
When I had a nut based Weller station I rarely changed the tip...
Was the nut metal or plastic?
I'm thinking in terms of locating any necessary tools (retainer screw types are worse IMHO), and potentially getting burnt in the process. The plastic ones have really improved matters in my case. :o
Cartridges definitely have the advantage on setting the desired rotational orientation. :-+
But I HATE their brass wool holder. The wool always goes to the back of the holder and gets all mangled up. My Hakko wool holder still has the original wool in it from 10 years ago. I replace the JBC wool about every month or so.
Have you tried stuffing the Hakko wool in the JBC stand?
I'd even try a second one if it wasn't large enough to fill the hole.
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Have you tried stuffing the Hakko wool in the JBC stand?
I'd even try a second one if it wasn't large enough to fill the hole.
I've tried everything, including double wools. The problem is the design and shape of the holder. There are even little teeth on the inside of the dome that catch the wool and hold it back, preventing it from moving forward. :wtf: It's almost like it's designed to be annoying. Really baffling on an otherwise fine station.
re: tip changes
I would be lost without quick tip changes. I do it all the time. I only wish their holder/changing station could hold more than just two tips. Really, it just holds one tip..the other is in your iron. That's just not enough. I need at least 3, and 4 would be better. At a minimum, I need to have a small, medium and large chisel tip at the ready.
Hakko's tip changes are convenient on their higher end stations. I have an FP101 (long discontinued, but basically the same tips/holder as their current lineup). They're not nearly as convenient as JBC, though, and having to do it by hand always puts you at risk for some nasty burns. I've burned myself a number of times. Still, it's much better than having to remove locking collars.
Pace did a good job with their irons. Very low tech, but very usuable...just a simple set screw, and a combination tool that allows you to loosen the screw, grab the hot tip, replace it and snug the screw. Great design that's almost as convenient as a cartridge.
No worries with buying tips. As I said, I do a lot of soldering for my business. I'm still on my original tips from last year. They last a good long time. I've yet to replace a Hakko tip from my FP101 too. Weller's disintegrating tip problems from early 2000s are what drove me to Hakko in the first place. A mistake on a production run of boards (somehow forgot thermal reliefs on a pour) is what drove me to JBC. I just needed something to muscle through a really difficult soldering job. JBC got it done and has been my main iron ever since, but I truly love the higher end Hakkos as well and use their desoldering station.
And if you do anything with guitars, soldering the trem claw with a JBC and big fat tip is an experience that everyone should have. The amount of heat you can dump into your work with the right tip and a nice fat solder bridge is just phenomenal. I don't even have the heavy duty station...just the lowly compact with the standard handle.
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John Coloccia, thanks for your input! I watched all your videos and enjoyed them a lot O0 When you have some free time, please, take a look at a message that I sent you weeks ago on YT ;)
I'm still waiting for a replacement unit so I can't post a follow up yet :(
If anyone is interested, I still have for sale couple of tips for the JBC: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-jbc-c245-cartridges-for-t245-handpiece-(eu)-worldwide-shipping (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-jbc-c245-cartridges-for-t245-handpiece-(eu)-worldwide-shipping)!/
I need to do some serious SMT rework (incl. drag soldering with a spoon tip), and as you know, now, I'm without a soldering iron...
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John Coloccia, thanks for your input! I watched all your videos and enjoyed them a lot O0 When you have some free time, please, take a look at a message that I sent you weeks ago on YT ;)
I'm still waiting for a replacement unit so I can't post a follow up yet :(
If anyone is interested, I still have for sale couple of tips for the JBC: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-jbc-c245-cartridges-for-t245-handpiece-(eu)-worldwide-shipping (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-jbc-c245-cartridges-for-t245-handpiece-(eu)-worldwide-shipping)!/
I need to do some serious SMT rework (incl. drag soldering with a spoon tip), and as you know, now, I'm without a soldering iron...
I'm not sure which comment is yours! :) Could you quote it, or point me to it? I apologize, but I tend not to check YouTube often, and I don't use google mail or Google+ at all...a lot of times people send me stuff and it seems like it disappears before I have a chance to look at it. I just keep the channel around to host videos, and sometimes to do little tutorials like you saw.
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When I had a nut based Weller station I rarely changed the tip...
Was the nut metal or plastic?
Metal, and I needed a tool to screw it off.