National Instruments LabView Home Bundle

[joeqsmith]

Some of you may know I use LabView for programming my PCs.     I recently had posted about looking into the Home Bundle that Digilent is offering for $50.

https://store.digilentinc.com/labview-home-bundle/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/playing-with-delta-sigma-converter-poor-mans-meter/msg2549559/#msg2549559

I have been using LabView since version 4 and bought a base license for version 5 for home use.  It's been in the home lab ever since.   I currently have the pro version of 2011.  It's rare I will upgrade for home because of the cost.   Seeing this home version at $50, it was a hard one to pass up.   The application builder licenses alone used to be about $1000 USD and it's included.

It was no problem downloading and getting setup.  The only snag I ran into was needing to use the serial number twice.  Once for Labview and again for the app builder.   I've since tried several programs and and not ran into any problems with it being crippled.   The only thing is they watermark it.  Many of my programs make full use of the screen and the watermark does impede viewing in some cases.   Still, at the low price, it's a small trade off.   Attached screenshot shows the watermark.

If you have ever wanted to try learning LabView but couldn't justify the high cost for home, this is a pretty nice deal.   No, I don't work for NI or Digilent. 

[JxR]

Nice.  I just bought Labview a couple days ago.  Although my version is the "student edition suite" which was $65. I'm still trying to figure it out.  Currently looking for a tutorial series on Youtube series that focuses on test and measure and synchronizing data acquisition between multiple pieces of equipment.  Although I haven't found much yet along those lines yet, but I'm sure there are some gems out there.

For now, mostly just trying to reverse engineer setups by looking at examples VIs.  My only complaint with it so far is the icons and text are too small.  I wish there was a way to increase their size in the settings.

[joeqsmith]

Hello fellow LV user.   Did your student version come with the application builder?   

LabView used to come with paper manuals.  There was a getting started manual that took a half day or so to work all the examples.  This was how I started out learning the basics.   I think they still have this manual available.   

[JxR]

Yes, my license email from NI says Application Builder was included.  Here is a list of everything I got if your curious: http://www.ni.com/labviewse/compare/ (I have the “suite”).

I’m sure all my questions are probably well documented somewhere in a manual.  It is just a bit overwhelming at first like anything new to you.  I do have all my equipment in NIMax with the appropriate drivers installed at least, so I have that going for me. 

[edpalmer42]

I see that the home bundle hasn't been upgraded since 2014.  Are there any issues with that?  Patches?  Compatibility?

Ed

[joeqsmith]

The only snag I can think of with 2011 was they dropped support for my GPIB controller.  There are no longer any drivers for it but it wasn't to difficult to sniff and then talk to it directly with the Ethernet function calls.   It actually works better now than it ever did with their drivers. 

I've been using 2014 since it came out and really haven't seen a lot of problems with it.  I've used it with both Windows 7 and 10.   I will stay with the 32-bit versions until NI supports  everything in the 64 that the 32 has.   I have 2016 installed but didn't see a reason to switch to it. 

Recently I was playing around with a TI evaluation board that came with support for LV.  Someone had posted a link to a review for it.  One of the first things I noticed was the commented about Labview  "LabView often is tricky and not very reliable in operation, as even after just ~10 minutes of fiddling with various tool settings I got it to crash with error:"    I don't think there is a language out there that will prevent someone from writing poor code or force them to test their code.    If you follow any of my projects, you know I have used Labview to run some fairly complex tests over the course of days and sometimes weeks.    It's been a very solid platform.    Here you can see it running the stock evaluation board with my Labview code:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/playing-with-delta-sigma-converter-poor-mans-meter/msg2545239/#msg2545239

[graybeard]

How is the instrument driver support for the Home bundle vs. the regular version?   

I can't find any information on the IEEE488 interfaces it supports.   Which ones work with it?

Thanks . . Chris

[SilverSolder]

Is that big UNI-T ad built into the application?

[tinhead]

I recently had posted about looking into the Home Bundle that Digilent is offering for $50.

wondering about what is included

- LabVIEW Full Development System
- LabVIEW Control Design and Simulation Module
- LabVIEW MathScript RT Module
- LabVIEW Application Builder Module

so is it Full Development System License or Home & Student License?

[joeqsmith]

How is the instrument driver support for the Home bundle vs. the regular version?   

I can't find any information on the IEEE488 interfaces it supports.   Which ones work with it?

Thanks . . Chris

The term "driver" to me is a source of confusion.  LabView has support for a lot of test equipment, and they will call these drivers but the reality is in many cases it's just example code making GPIB calls for example.   

You can find out what hardware is supported by searching NI site and typing in "LabView GPIB  Drivers".   
http://www.ni.com/pdf/manuals/375742g.html#SupportedHardware

For home, the only hardware I have from NI is their GPIB controllers.   I havn't come across a case where I couldn't use LabView to control my hardware.

[joeqsmith]

Is that big UNI-T ad built into the application?

China started buying US companies some time ago.  When UNI-T bought National Instruments, they mandated that every application written in LabView would require a UNI-T banner ad.   I personally think it was a bad business decision.     There is a group currently working on hacking LabView to remove the banners.   I understand it is fairly complex and that China now has hooks in the code to detect any mods.   Last I knew the group was working with the team from AdBlock Plus on how they may solve it. 

[joeqsmith]

I recently had posted about looking into the Home Bundle that Digilent is offering for $50.

wondering about what is included

- LabVIEW Full Development System
- LabVIEW Control Design and Simulation Module
- LabVIEW MathScript RT Module
- LabVIEW Application Builder Module

so is it Full Development System License or Home & Student License?

It appears to be the Full Development with the addition of the Application builder but it's watermarked.   

[SilverSolder]

Is that big UNI-T ad built into the application?

China started buying US companies some time ago.  When UNI-T bought National Instruments, they mandated that every application written in LabView would require a UNI-T banner ad.   I personally think it was a bad business decision.     There is a group currently working on hacking LabView to remove the banners.   I understand it is fairly complex and that China now has hooks in the code to detect any mods.   Last I knew the group was working with the team from AdBlock Plus on how they may solve it.

Ah, I did not know that.  Is the banner ad "dynamic" in the sense that it hits a server somewhere and picks up new ads once in a while?

Arguably, lowering the price to $50 is a smart move by Uni-T to promote wide adoption of the product; something has to pay for it.

I have been simply "hitting the metal" over GPIB in the past, because LabView etc. was just unaffordable for hobby use.  Now that the price barrier has been removed, I'm left wondering what kinds of cool things software like LabView can actually do...   perhaps time to hit the University of Youtube!

[joeqsmith]

Is that big UNI-T ad built into the application?

China started buying US companies some time ago.  When UNI-T bought National Instruments, they mandated that every application written in LabView would require a UNI-T banner ad.   I personally think it was a bad business decision.     There is a group currently working on hacking LabView to remove the banners.   I understand it is fairly complex and that China now has hooks in the code to detect any mods.   Last I knew the group was working with the team from AdBlock Plus on how they may solve it.

Ah, I did not know that.  Is the banner ad "dynamic" in the sense that it hits a server somewhere and picks up new ads once in a while?

Arguably, lowering the price to $50 is a smart move by Uni-T to promote wide adoption of the product; something has to pay for it.

I have been simply "hitting the metal" over GPIB in the past, because LabView etc. was just unaffordable for hobby use.  Now that the price barrier has been removed, I'm left wondering what kinds of cool things software like LabView can actually do...   perhaps time to hit the University of Youtube!

I think they picked up National Instruments around the same time they bought Fluke from Fortive.  The plan is the same, to rebrand all Fluke meters with the UNI-T logo but stay with the Fluke yellow case.  Red on yellow.   I heard they were trying to buy the EEVBLOG site but Dave won't budge on the price.



Of course, LabView is a programming language.  As such, I can make the software I create look any way I choose.   So when I developed software for the UNI-T UT181A DMM, I choose to make the application look the part.   That has nothing to do with National Instruments or UNI-T.   

[tinhead]

It appears to be the Full Development with the addition of the Application builder but it's watermarked.   

that's ok for me, just ordered it over amazon

When ... ... ... but Dave won't budge on the price

 

[RoGeorge]

China started buying US companies some time ago.  When UNI-T bought National Instruments, they mandated that every application written in LabView would require a UNI-T banner ad.

AFAIK, National Instruments is a US company, NATI (NASDAQ), and it has nothing in common with UNI-Trend (China).

Are you saying UNI-T bought National Instruments Corporation?  When does this happened? 

[Kosmic]

Are you saying UNI-T bought National Instruments Corporation?  When does this happened?

That was a joke 

[SilverSolder]

These days real things are a joke, and jokes are real things!

Some things are so serious, we can only joke about them.  --Max Planck

[joeqsmith]

It appears to be the Full Development with the addition of the Application builder but it's watermarked.   

that's ok for me, just ordered it over amazon

When ... ... ... but Dave won't budge on the price

 

It's hard to go wrong at the $50 they charge. 

I imagine you could buy the standard tool kits for it as well.   I haven't looked to see if they offer any sort of home pricing for these as normally they cost a fair amount.   I've looked at a few of them over the years but have yet to find something that I thought would save me enough time to justify the cost for home use.   

I looked at the GPU toolkit for example but never understood the point.  I just use CUDA and make the calls from LabView.  It works fine.   

The one thing I had not tried was to run my motorcycle HIL simulator.  This simulator uses custom hardware residing on the PC's PCI bus.  I used to run the model in C but translated it 100% to LabView a few years ago.  To talk to the hardware, I used their driver wizzard to create a Windows driver for the board.   It's a bit of an odd ball compared to what I am normally interfacing with LabView.   I just finished running some tests with it using the home edition and it works fine.  You can see how the watermark impedes viewing some of the controls.   

Basically, I have now tested everything I have written in the last few years and I've not run into any problems with the home version.     

****

I tried building an application and the output is also watermarked which makes sense I guess. 

[SilverSolder]

Love the motorcycle model.  -  What does the custom hardware do,  can't it all be modeled in software?  -  or is it testing an actual device that interfaces with real sensors etc.?

[joeqsmith]

HIL is Hardware In Loop, meaning I use the actual motorcycle's ECM (Engine Control Module) which is then attached to my motorcycle simulator.    The hardware is basically 100% digital and simulates the various engine sensors that feed into the ECM.   This allows me to try changes to the ECM without using a real engine or the bike.   

Here you can see one of the handheld meters I looked at attached to it   
https://youtu.be/q_89qoFMivg?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBvWvqMVLdRQMjGofKpQUJr

Of course if you are into seeing a better class of meter, there is always the Brymen
https://youtu.be/uY6ZcINF7L0?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBvWvqMVLdRQMjGofKpQUJr

[n3mmr]

What, precisely, does the watermarking entail? Does watermarking cause real problems in some way?

[SilverSolder]

HIL is Hardware In Loop, meaning I use the actual motorcycle's ECM (Engine Control Module) which is then attached to my motorcycle simulator.    The hardware is basically 100% digital and simulates the various engine sensors that feed into the ECM.   This allows me to try changes to the ECM without using a real engine or the bike.

I was totally blown away by the engine simulation...  a work of art!  How do you generate the sound...  does it take all the factors into account like piston speed differences etc. that you program in?  While cranking?

[joeqsmith]

HIL is Hardware In Loop, meaning I use the actual motorcycle's ECM (Engine Control Module) which is then attached to my motorcycle simulator.    The hardware is basically 100% digital and simulates the various engine sensors that feed into the ECM.   This allows me to try changes to the ECM without using a real engine or the bike.

I was totally blown away by the engine simulation...  a work of art!  How do you generate the sound...  does it take all the factors into account like piston speed differences etc. that you program in?  While cranking?

Recorded the sound off the actual bike.  PWM the speaker.  Again, its all digital.   Sensors are also simulated with PWM.  There are some analog parts, for example, there are inductors to simulate the fuel injectors and ignition coils.   I have the ability to change their impedance under software control in order to trip the fuel system fault codes.   Torsional noise is programmable.  I can simulate a weak cylinder for example.  It all done in hardware.   

Here you can see me adjusting one piston's speed. 
https://youtu.be/786ELUSXLP8?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBvWvqMVLdRQMjGofKpQUJr&t=121

[SilverSolder]

I have a little background in that industry and I can see how much care and attention has gone into this simulation. Very impressive work.  Love the details, down to the missing tooth inductive pick-up!

[joeqsmith]

I have a little background in that industry and I can see how much care and attention has gone into this simulation. Very impressive work.  Love the details, down to the missing tooth inductive pick-up!

Motorcycle or HIL simulation industry?  If HIL, are you working for one of the large simulation companies like D-Space? 

This setup has evolved.  It started out a mix of some multi threaded C code and LabView.  Then I looked at using the XtoC XCOS to create the model.   Then I ditched all of that when I finally ditched my old P4 PC.   The new PC was so fast by comparison, I though why do I need all this C code anymore.   So, now, it's all LabView.   Well, LabView and VHDL.  No, it's not an NI FPGA board, it's all custom made. 

The hardware basically sends an interrupt to the PC based on the camshaft position.  The LabView driver wizzard allows you to send an event to LabView when the interrupt triggers.   The engine and motorcycle models are written in LabView.  They take in fuel and timing information from the ECM by looking at the ignition coil and fuel injector waveforms and will change the various sensor values and engine speed.   To make it work in real time, synchronous with the engine, the hardware does a lot of the work.   It was a fun project but I am a bit of a motorcycle buff and have a tendency to bit off more than I can chew.   

Here you can see using it to hunt down a problem with the air shift. 
https://youtu.be/N2VZpCRM7q8?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBvWvqMVLdRQMjGofKpQUJr 

[SilverSolder]

This was all decades ago - the kind of simulation capabilities you demonstrate here would have happened in pleasant dreams only!

Perhaps this concept could (should!) be sold to Boeing, to test flight control systems?

I did not know that Labview was capable of being used for this kind of thing, I always thought of it as a data logging/ graphing application...

[joeqsmith]

I would hope that the simulations and testing they do for aircrafts would far exceed any of my home projects by several orders of magnitude.  The same for any other safety related equipment.   

IMO, LabView is really only limited by the persons doing the programming.  I use it because I can create software faster than with traditional tools.  I've used it for actual work for 25 years or so but I would still consider myself a bit of a novice as it's not something I do full time.   To me, it's just another tool.   

Mostly, I will use it just as you describe.  Automate some test, collect some data, post process it and then display the results.  Here I was using it along with my SA to sniff a multimeter's RF link and decode it.  I am not suggesting that LabView makes people instant programmers or that it will turn bad programmers into good ones.  It's not magic.  The person using the tool still has to have the skills to use it. 
https://youtu.be/Mkec-Eyhg7c?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQBcHhIaGpmm9GyZQfrCzqkv&t=340

[SilverSolder]

So, what's the basic programming paradigm of LabView -  do you start with a blank UI form,  and then drop various gauges and charts on the form, and tie it all together with code (Visual Basic style)?   (Just had a quick peek at the University of Youtube...  seems to be 100% "visual programming"?)

How good is LabView at communicating with ancient / non-standard GPIB devices?

[joeqsmith]

The front panel, or part that you see when you launch the program is really just the fluff.  The real work like anything is going to be in the underlying code.   For the most part, it's programmed graphically.  Similar to a schematic.   The libraries are fairly extensive which is why I am able to get a fair amount of work done in short order.   

There are also hooks to MatLab.  There is also a limited MatLab scripting sort of language.   You can also type in formulas (in ASCII).  And or course, you can make calls to external code.   

Pretty much all of my test equipment is 10 or more years old, most of which use GPIB.    My VNA dates into the 70's and I run it from LabView over GPIB.   Again, I'm not suggesting that it's going to turn a non-technical person into a programmer.  It won't.   But at least in my case, I can tell you that it's been a very nice tool to have and has saved me a lot of development time.   

[Bicurico]

The home license does not allow any commercial use of the resulting applications.

Of course - it is a home version for private use.

But then - why pay anything?

I would buy the home version if I could distribute some software built on it for a small donation fee. But as it is, it doesn't seem very atractive a deal to me.

Regards,
Vitor

[Kosmic]

But then - why pay anything?

Because they spent years developing that tool ?

Not sure why it should be free, even if you’re not making money out of it. Do you get all the tools you are using for free ?

[Bicurico]

Of course you are right - but that is not what I meant.

This is a development tool. If they want people to learn how to use it, they should /could make a free feature limited light version like VB .net Express.

But yes - its their software and they can market it as they want.

Cheers,
Vitor

[Kosmic]

I guess it's just a different marketing strategy. Microsoft are giving Visual Studio away for free now for home use. But, Labview serving mostly a niche market (compared to Visual Studio) they are probably better off charging a small fee for the home version.

Personally I prefer paying 50$ to have the full version than having to deal with a stripped down version of the application.

Considering what labview provide, it’s pretty cheap.

[joeqsmith]

It they offered the latest watermarked home edition full version, with the application builder for $100, I would buy it right now.   If they offered a bundle with your choice of two toolboxes for $500, I would jump on it.   That's how much I use it and I see no difference between buying good software or good hardware.   

If I were making money from it, I could care less about paying the full price for it (which I have done) but mostly what I use if for is advancing my own hobby.    A stripped down, light weight, free version wouldn't be of any use to me as I actually need it all to work.   

They do offer a free 7-day trial.  Sometimes they will extend it.   Working the examples would take about a day.  After a week I suspect most people would have a pretty good idea if it's going to be worth the investment.