Author Topic: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015  (Read 57669 times)

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Offline retiredcapsTopic starter

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2015, 02:43:39 am »
Thanks retiredcaps.  I think it safe to say most HHDMMs brands are OEM of others, and only top brands design and build DMM for themselves, or most likely contract ODM for all or parts of it.

Even Fluke is not immune.

https://www.stratos.com/project/fluke
CEO of Stratos was ex Fluke employee.  A quick link search on linked shows other Stratos employees as ex Fluke.

Mike Nelson

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mike-nelson/a/870/5a7

Mark Freeman

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-freeman/19/198/b98

Mark Hastings

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-hastings/a/568/ba7
 

Offline 5ky

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2015, 06:00:00 am »
A fantastic end would be to impulse some of them as Joe Q Smith did and see how they fair.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/360/

If you want to run any of them across the jig, just let me know.   Keep in mind that the only meter that I have seen survive at the last setting is the Fluke 101.   

I'd be willing to donate these to your cause:

Uni-T UT61D
Innova 3320
Tekpower TP40
Circuit-Test DMR-6550
Holdpeak HP-760H

If you haven't tested any or all of those, let me know and I'll happily mail them to you for some cheap multimeter carnage. :-+
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2015, 06:26:01 am »
A fantastic end would be to impulse some of them as Joe Q Smith did and see how they fair.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/360/

If you want to run any of them across the jig, just let me know.   Keep in mind that the only meter that I have seen survive at the last setting is the Fluke 101.   

I'd be willing to donate these to your cause:

Uni-T UT61D
Innova 3320
Tekpower TP40
Circuit-Test DMR-6550
Holdpeak HP-760H

If you haven't tested any or all of those, let me know and I'll happily mail them to you for some cheap multimeter carnage. :-+


Sounds good.   These are all different from what I tested.   When you are done with them, shoot me a PM and I'll send you my contact information.     Saw you ran the Fluke 107.  I actually thought about buying that meter to see if it would hold up.   If you have no plans for it after you have finished, I would be interested in it.         

Offline saturation

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2015, 09:08:44 pm »
Good find.  That can help get contracts.  To use Fluke's name for promotion, seems to me they remain in good terms with them.  That piqued my interest.

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=1502267

Look at their project CV:

https://www.stratos.com/all-projects

Involved managers do mention their connections to Fluke, just click on their names for more. 

https://www.stratos.com/about/management

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Stratos-Product-Development-Reviews-E327530.htm

Based on their corporate address, they are ~ 1 hour from Fluke's main office in Everett, WA.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/6920+Seaway+Blvd,+Everett,+WA+98203/2401+Elliott+Ave,+Seattle,+WA+98121/@47.7193538,-122.6890633,9z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x5490010f0ab1d28b:0xcd1d59d2048424aa!2m2!1d-122.2650571!2d47.9344994!1m5!1m1!1s0x549015520e162309:0xaa10d8172120ae6c!2m2!1d-122.350113!2d47.612817!3e0

CEO of Stratos was ex Fluke employee.  A quick link search on linked shows other Stratos employees as ex Fluke.
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-hastings/a/568/ba7
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 Saturation
 

Online tautech

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2015, 09:15:26 pm »
A fantastic end would be to impulse some of them as Joe Q Smith did and see how they fair.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/360/

If you want to run any of them across the jig, just let me know.   Keep in mind that the only meter that I have seen survive at the last setting is the Fluke 101.   

I'd be willing to donate these to your cause:

Uni-T UT61D
Innova 3320
Tekpower TP40
Circuit-Test DMR-6550
Holdpeak HP-760H

If you haven't tested any or all of those, let me know and I'll happily mail them to you for some cheap multimeter carnage. :-+
:clap:

I can't wait to see the carnage.  :-+
 :popcorn:
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Online EEVblog

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2015, 11:43:57 pm »
Even Fluke is not immune.
https://www.stratos.com/project/fluke

SOunds like they were contracted to do the industrial design for it. I doubt they did the whole meter.
 

Offline NoItAint

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2015, 11:52:52 pm »
This is a great series of videos :-+
I am amazed at how high quality some of these low cost meters are.  And now I know which ones to avoid.
Thanks!
 

Offline amirm

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2015, 05:35:53 pm »
Just finished watching them all.  Great job and fantastic service to the community.  Thanks for doing it.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2015, 06:08:26 pm »
Thanks to 5ky and joeqsmith  :clap:, I hope you folks come to an agreement so we can see how these meters fare as to their CAT ratings, at least on the impulse test.  It'll help give reader's insight into their safety.

Ontario, Canada has an interesting experience with DMM accidents.  Anyone interested can check the ESA website for details.  Here is the summary:

http://www.esasafe.com/

http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2008/07/16/multimeter-accident-prevention-plan-an-electrical-inspectors-survival-guide/

The key issue with the Ontario experience is data before and after DMM related safety issues were instituted.


http://www.esasafe.com/assets/files/esasafe/pdf/Multimeter_Brochure.pdf

Quote from: joeqsmith link=topic=51743.msg725027#msg725027
date=1438842361

I'd be willing to donate these to your cause:

Uni-T UT61D
Innova 3320
Tekpower TP40
Circuit-Test DMR-6550
Holdpeak HP-760H

If you haven't tested any or all of those, let me know and I'll happily mail them to you for some cheap multimeter carnage. :-+


Sounds good.   These are all different from what I tested.   When you
are done with them, shoot me a PM and I'll send you my contact
information.     Saw you ran the Fluke 107.  I actually thought about
buying that meter to see if it would hold up.   If you have no plans for
it after you have finished, I would be interested in it.

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2015, 04:06:39 pm »
He still has the drop tests and AC line voltage tests he was going to run on them.   

It would be interesting if any of them fail the AC line voltage to have a look at what failed. 

It appears he confuses MOVs for PTCs.  The AMPROBE he tested is very similar to the 510 I looked at.  Mines been modified but notice that additional MOV.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PzsQCr9FiFs#t=1712

Offline 5ky

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2015, 07:03:44 pm »
It appears he confuses MOVs for PTCs.  The AMPROBE he tested is very similar to the 510 I looked at.  Mines been modified but notice that additional MOV.

Yeah someone else pointed that out as well.  I've only ever seen the disc type varisters so it's apparent that I need to start looking at the silkscreen.  (which is hard to do with a camera/tripod between you and the DMM)

I'll get a good look through each of these when I get around to the individual reviews of these guys, and I'll get the DSLR out to snap some shots of both sides of the PCBs for each one.

Then after the individual reviews, I'll test each meter doing the mains on ohms test, as well as a 1m drop test.  Then I'll send some of them over to Mr. joeqsmith for some serious abuse  :-+
 

Offline saturation

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2015, 05:14:26 pm »
Thanks so much for your work.

Looking forward to videos, take due care as worse case it will be like a dead short inside the meter from mains power.

The Canadian links was mostly DMM accidents, based on the voltage involved its commercial and home wiring issues not the industrial type arc blasts we read about in the OSHA reports.  It far less now in Ontario now because of strict rules and CSA rated meters.

A wise user can work with anything knowing and recalling a devices limits, e.g. use a Centech freebie only for CAT 1.  But if user forgets just once or someone in your household uses it by mistake in the wrong conditions, it could be a eye opener.  Why settle for less when better options exist? 


It appears he confuses MOVs for PTCs.  The AMPROBE he tested is very similar to the 510 I looked at.  Mines been modified but notice that additional MOV.

... I'll test each meter doing the mains on ohms test, as well as a 1m drop test.  Then I'll send some of them over to Mr. joeqsmith for some serious abuse  :-+
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 01:36:15 pm by saturation »
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 Saturation
 

Offline saturation

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2015, 05:28:48 pm »
Yes, I'd be interested, several of those DMMs warn users not to do this, not to use ohms when set for voltage; IEC criteria for a safety rated meter require it to tolerate the maximum rated voltage in any function.  Hopefully 5Ky will take his usual good videos of failed PCBs.

He could also ship the dead meters to you for a post mortem check ;)  If a microscope were needed I saw you have one that you used on the 87V failure [ BTW those were signal diodes you replace on the 87V? BV199?  It appears ruptured within the packaging without arcing] that seems to be easy to take photos with in case you were interested into looking at blown chips in detail.


He still has the drop tests and AC line voltage tests he was going to run on them.   

It would be interesting if any of them fail the AC line voltage to have a look at what failed. 

It appears he confuses MOVs for PTCs.  The AMPROBE he tested is very similar to the 510 I looked at.  Mines been modified but notice that additional MOV.   

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline 3roomlab

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2015, 03:07:20 pm »
He still has the drop tests and AC line voltage tests he was going to run on them.   

It would be interesting if any of them fail the AC line voltage to have a look at what failed. 

It appears he confuses MOVs for PTCs.  The AMPROBE he tested is very similar to the 510 I looked at.  Mines been modified but notice that additional MOV.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PzsQCr9FiFs#t=1712

just curious, since you have some HV equipment setup ...
i am very interested to know if the test leads provided can actually withstand 1kV ... or more ? especially for the sake of recording some numbers ... maybe the 2.5kV insulation test?
its just a itching curiosity ...
 

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2015, 09:28:33 pm »
He still has the drop tests and AC line voltage tests he was going to run on them.   

It would be interesting if any of them fail the AC line voltage to have a look at what failed. 

It appears he confuses MOVs for PTCs.  The AMPROBE he tested is very similar to the 510 I looked at.  Mines been modified but notice that additional MOV.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PzsQCr9FiFs#t=1712

just curious, since you have some HV equipment setup ...
i am very interested to know if the test leads provided can actually withstand 1kV ... or more ? especially for the sake of recording some numbers ... maybe the 2.5kV insulation test?
its just a itching curiosity ...
In one of Joe's vids he does lead tests, twisted together but no failures IIRC and much higher than 2.5 KV.


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Offline ywara

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2015, 12:34:50 am »
i am very interested to know if the test leads provided can actually withstand 1kV ... or more ? especially for the sake of recording some numbers ... maybe the 2.5kV insulation test?

There is not much need to do hipot/IR tests of insulated wire at 1kV. These tests are mostly to ensure no major failures like metal chips or broken strands creating a near short exist.

A .050 airgap (in >70% RH) will be a "perfect" insulator to ~2kV. Any sort of insulator can only be better. I have seen medium-quality 300V-rated hookup wire withstand 5kV repeatedly.
 

Offline george graves

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2015, 05:16:44 am »
Great videos!  I agree too much is said about high voltage stuff when just doing bench work.

 :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

PS - this thread should probably be pined up top for a while - until someone de-thrones you.

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2015, 03:37:46 am »
i think i know what could be a nice alternative to subjecting the DMM to test voltages (1kV etc etc), measuring the input impedance. i just took my UNI-T 61E and measured its input - comm socket legs (DC) under the diff selector positions, and here is what i find :   ...   the measurements are all done w/o battery in the DMM. maybe someone else could do something else for comparison, esp those that passed destructive tests in the ohm range?

Please explain to me how this is an alternative. 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2015, 12:36:57 pm »

Please explain to me how this is an alternative.

TBH, im not really sure  :-//, maybe a really really lousy DMM dont even have over 10M input impedance in the important selections, so w/o even using a HV test, 1 could judge using this "character"? :-// (ie: XYZ brand, CAT3 rated, but DCV input only has 1Mohm?)

I don't think you will find it's that simple.

Offline saturation

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2015, 12:16:38 pm »
I agree the kV tests seem overkill, but its part of IEC protocols.  Beyond insulation its also used for shock hazard for exposed parts of the design that may contact user fingers, it may also be done after the probe has been abused physically and environmentally.  For a 1kV rated probe, the steady state test voltage is ~ 10kVdc or 7kVac rms and 13kV impulse and if it says 10A, it can take 10A continuously for? > 2-3 hours without changing any of its rated specs.

Here is a link to a free full IEC DMM test, and the separate test of its probes.  I don't know how long this link will be valid.  The IEC document itself runs over $100 but pdf shows every step, sans detailed explanation.

http://www.topelcom.gr/cms/M300_3.pdf

Now, whether the testers are honest about each step of the process is another thing, that's why the CE mark is weak relative to 3rd party marks, like UL.  What looks like the M300 Hyelec is in the cover of this safety document from the EU, but maybe its not the same DMM?

Here is a link to a 3rd party test done to a Uni-T probe, it also lists a number of 'brands' its sold under.

http://www.element14.com/community/servlet/JiveServlet/download/42359-3-102013/110103600214-216-217_test%20report.pdf

If the above fails, here is the main link:

http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-42359/l/software-for-tenma-72-9280-for-windows7

IMHO the Uni-T test are excellent.  Those probes sell as low as $2-3/pair and US eBay about $8/pair delivered.  To summarize, you can get quality safe probes for very little money, and its been tested.

Otherwise you may get stuck with these:

http://www.saferproducts.gov/ViewIncident/1417431

It doesn't happen to all the Centech probes, but you never know when or if it will fail, and they appear to not have been abused at the time it failed.


i am very interested to know if the test leads provided can actually withstand 1kV ... or more ? especially for the sake of recording some numbers ... maybe the 2.5kV insulation test?

There is not much need to do hipot/IR tests of insulated wire at 1kV. These tests are mostly to ensure no major failures like metal chips or broken strands creating a near short exist.

A .050 airgap (in >70% RH) will be a "perfect" insulator to ~2kV. Any sort of insulator can only be better. I have seen medium-quality 300V-rated hookup wire withstand 5kV repeatedly.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 12:26:22 pm by saturation »
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 Saturation
 

Offline saturation

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2015, 02:17:19 pm »
A reason to discuss  "high voltage" rated DMM is that its harder to make them that way, and all certification tests are usually done to insure at least mains voltage level safety.  So, even if you rarely use it for mains it has to be built better overall than one that isn't, so the high voltage tests are a mark of better quality design and manufacture at the least.

For example, most bench meters, like the Keysight 34465a are just CAT II or less but they are certified to be CAT II.

DMMs with certifications can still malfunction [ say from a production batch defect] buts the initial tests are so stringent its very unlikely to be unsafe even with the defect.  The certifying body also checks the factory to insure production is consistent to give owner's a certified product. 

Better manufacturers aspire to higher standards [ usually "6 sigma" or under 3 defects per billion ] which means in production runs of 100,000 or so, defects in products to end users are ~ non-existent, otherwise you end up with this:

http://www.saferproducts.gov/ViewIncident/1197325

In which case,  the brand name starts to matter above the safety certification.  Naturally, you end up paying up front for all those extra quality controls associated with the brand.


Great videos!  I agree too much is said about high voltage stuff when just doing bench work.

 :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

PS - this thread should probably be pined up top for a while - until someone de-thrones you.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 02:30:50 pm by saturation »
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 Saturation
 

Offline saturation

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2015, 03:18:38 pm »
Yes, the certification is only for that one model, so be sure that's the model you buy, and that the company doesn't cheat or there is counterfeit, sell a look-a-alike model that isn't tested.

I'm glad you enjoy the documents, there is lots to see, the details let readers know what the certification really means particularly comparing "CE" vs an NRTL lab like Intertek.  I think some other manufacturers will make this data public, at least Amprobe has many on record for its products you can download while Fluke brands do not.

FWIW Amprobe has many rebadged Brymen and Uni-T models, Uni-T has many non-tested models; but if you buy the Amprobe versions of the Uni-T models they are built better with reasonable cost.

the intertek test chart is great information !  :-+
but i think not all UNI-T cables are 1 part number, i think they have many types and as far as i know, my UNI-T probes dont look like they have that much copper in them like in the picture :P, and it definately fails the 13.2a (3.5mm exposed) clause :P. sometimes, i think the companies market a IEC tested part, but sells a different lower grade part. as end users, if the sold item is made 10% inferior, chances are 99.999% they can still get away with it.

i read with amusement in the M300 test report, the equipment they used in the tests. it seems there are quite a number of good graded china test equipment there. there is even 3pc of calibrated HAMMER ! :P (part no CESS065 -067), anyway it must be fun working in such a facility !
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline retiredcapsTopic starter

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2015, 06:00:21 pm »
FWIW Amprobe has many rebadged Brymen and Uni-T models, Uni-T has many non-tested models; but if you buy the Amprobe versions of the Uni-T models they are built better with reasonable cost.
Which Amprobe models are from Uni-T?
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2015, 06:41:05 pm »
To me it appears that the AM-5X0 series are from Uni-T.
 

Offline Robomeds

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Re: NEW $50 multimeter shootout - 15 DMMs compared - Aug 2, 2015
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2015, 07:42:02 pm »
Thanks retiredcaps.  I think it safe to say most HHDMMs brands are OEM of others, and only top brands design and build DMM for themselves, or most likely contract ODM for all or parts of it.

Even Fluke is not immune.

https://www.stratos.com/project/fluke


The Voltcraft VC890, as 5ky mentions, is a Uni-T, it appears as a modified 171C.



https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/uni-t-ut171a-pictures-and-first-impressions/15/

It appears in that case Fluke hired a design firm to do the industrial design.  I'm sure Fluke still engineered the guts.  Apple did this (may still do it) all the time using companies like Function Engineering, Frog and IDEO to help with product design.  It's really a bit of a spectrum.  At one end you have companies that are doing almost every thing in house.  Ford and the River Rouge Plant was perhaps the most extreme case (iron ore goes in, cars go out).  At the other end we have companies that are clearly sticking their names on other products with very little to no design input (likely most of the small players who sell rebadged UNI-T and CEM models).  Then we have that large range in the middle where a company is heavily involved but doesn't do all the work.  It is very common for a company with technical expertise to hire a design firm to handle industrial design aspects as we are seeing with the Fluke 170 series.  You will also see this with cars such as BMW giving design inputs to a ZF, GM, or Aisin transmission they wish to use in one of their cars.  Perhaps the distinction is BMW, and likely Fluke still had their engineering and management coordinating the whole show even if others did some of the work.  Greenlee on the other hand almost certainly submits a wishlist (specs) to Brymen and let's Brymen handle all the design work. 
 


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