Products > Test Equipment
New bench scope - Fnirsi 1014D, 7", 1GSa/s
Rasz:
--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on December 30, 2022, 12:14:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: Rasz on December 30, 2022, 11:50:45 am ---
--- Quote from: donwulff on December 30, 2022, 09:19:03 am ---Honestly, I'm talking about FNIRSI 1014D not because it's the absolute best (it obviously isn't), but because this is the thread for it and I already own it.
--- End quote ---
Im sorry for your loss. Being in this thread should make you realize you got scammed. Best course of action is selling this piece of crap and moving on with your life.
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That is bullshit. It is a nice piece of kit to play with from a development perspective. It has a 7 inch display, a reasonable fast processor and a nice FPGA. The second processor to handle the user input gives another bit for learning. Inter processor communication and scanning of rotary dials and buttons. With the schematics available it is a nice entry point to gain knowledge on programming both hardware and firmware.
The other scopes you mentioned have smaller screens and one would need to start from zero and reverse engineer the firmware to be able to make new firmware for it. Most of that work has been done for the 1014D.
I would say if you have nothing positive to add, just stay away from posting in this thread.
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Did you just say this ~$200 "100Mhz BW 1GSa/s" 20MHz BW 400MSa/s scope is a good dev board? People usually buy scopes to use them as scopes. Something tells me donwulff doesnt want a dev board, he wants a functioning scope and his interest in RE is purely in hopes of FIXING it to actually get what was advertized.
pcprogrammer:
I never said good. It is a nice and simple platform to play with.
And if someone wants something that is what is advertised and any good then they should be prepared to shell out more cash than a couple of hundred dollars.
All one has to do is search on google and one can find that most of these cheap Chinese scopes are a bit of rubbish, but for a starting hobbyist they can be a helpful tool. Would have been very pleased if something like this was available for similar money when I was young.
donwulff has one and arrived here at this thread to find himself interested in playing with it on another level then using it as a scope. Nothing wrong with that.
donwulff:
Acshually, I did buy the 1014D specifically because I was aware there was reverse-engineering project/some software for it on this site (Not yet ready when I purchased it, and didn't realize it would be 1013D only, but I'm not unwilling to get my hands dirty, that's kind of the point of tweaking and learning) which should be obvious from my posts. You'd be a fool not to Google what you're purchasing, especially off Chinese web-stores, and nobody should expect to get 100MHz 2-channel DSO for under 200 (euros or dollars or whatever). It's enough for hobby projects & learning, especially with the benefit of tweaking the oscilloscope itself (Not that I've done that yet, but protocol decode, phase align etc. are things you can't often do even with more expensive gear).
If I need better performance, I'll just use the Siglent SDS2204X HD, but at about 4000 EUR few people would consider taking it apart for tweaks or throw it in the back of trunk for field trip etc. To be clear, I think the 1014D is close to, if not the best around it's price class, all the other alternatives are 2X or more and/or similarly inflated specs. But the prospect of existing open firmware for experimenting and trying tweaks is what cinches it. I'll refrain from saying "makes it truly powerful" because I don't really know if any of that works yet ;)
donwulff:
Started writing my notes out to https://github.com/Donwulff/FNIRSI-1013D-1014D-Hack/blob/main/notes.md - there are literally multiple thousands posts on these scopes on EEVblog alone, and I've barely started wading through all of them. So this is basically still at the "figuring out the problem" (Of turning 1014D into an über programmable scope, not of just using it for it's intended hobbyist use) stage for me, starting from basically no knowledge. I'm sure it has many errors and omissions, but have to start somewhere. Just from few of the sources it appears that these scopes have been built with many different, similar components however.
Everybody, even in 2020 thread keeps saying it has terrible specs even for it's price. This doesn't really matter to me as long as it's relatively programmable. However, I've not seen anybody suggests <200 EUR/dollar scope with better specs. They're all either 2X+ the price and/or same 200MSa/s ADC, sometimes overclocked to 250MSa/s.
If anybody can suggest better than 2 independently 250MSa/s+ channels Digital Storage Oscilloscope under 200 dollars/euros, I'll definitely at least list them Programmability without having to reverse-engineer everything myself is important to me, though the choice of acceptable scope seems something of a religious issue to many, lol. Maybe I'll switch to something like the Hantek DSO2D15 IF there ready-made open firmware I can use with no risk of breaking it, and confirmation the specs actually hold. But it'll still be an overkill for scoping serial buses, or fixing the timing on most CPLD/FPGA buses where you need to adjust the output delay. And any possible source code should hopefully fairly easily port to new scope.
Now if I'll find the reference, there was also a mention some of the similar scopes have heatsinks on the ADC. Looking at the temperatures is certainly one thing to do on the hardware side.
pcprogrammer:
It might be that the Hantek DSO2C10 can be bought for under 200 dollar/euro. I paid 195 euro for the DSO2D10 to just be sure of the AWG components being installed. Many reported the C models to have the same fully populated PCB installed and with a simple hack enabled the full bandwidth and AWG.
The specifications of it are true. 1GSa/s max with one channel enabled and 500MSa/s max with 2 channels enabled. The FPGA used in it has 8MB of memory but there is a speed issue that causes it to not being able to use it at full sample speed. The front end is much better then the one of the FNIRSI.
But the down side is that it has not been reverse engineered. For the linux part the sources have been released, and they seems to bring some insight into the system. Not sure if it makes it possible to write your own scope code for it though.
I read your notes on github and do have some remarks. First of all you did your legwork, so hats of for that.
You mention a 400MSa/s versus advertised 1GSa/s for the two FNIRSI scopes. It is not possible with the FPGA as is, to do 400MSa/s on a single merged channel. The two ADC's in a single AD9288 chip are clocked with 180 degree phase shift to allow for the 200MSa/s sampling rate. The two AD9288 chips in the scope are clocked on these same clocks. To do 400MSa/s the clocks would need to be on phase 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees to make it work.
So they are just 200MSa/s scopes and when 5 samples per period are assumed as ok for signal representation it could work with 40MHz signals. Limiting factor here is the front end with a ~30MHz -3db point.
About the protocol decoding. This is not trivial with the current setup. There is no way to do fast enough continuous sampling of the signal into the F1C100s memory to do analyses on it. You mention sigrok and turning the scope into a data logger for that. Even with a dedicated FPGA implementation the limiting factor is the low memory amount in the FPGA and the speed of the interconnect between the FPGA and the F1C100s. Even though it is a parallel bus it can't even reach 100MB/s due to the way it is implemented. (Have not done actual speed tests on it)
The amount of memory in the Anlogic FPGA is enough to do 24KB per channel, but it needs careful FPGA design to get it working on 200MSa/s. It might even be possible to push it up a bit more, but that would mean mixing two types of memory available. The AL3-10 has 9K and 32K bit memory blocks scattered throughout the fabric. You need a very good synchronous design to use it all at the high speed.
There is more, but I will take a break first.
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