New DMM for Chistmas / embedded development

[joeqsmith]

Looks like it's limited to 10,000 counts.  Or does it continue to count after the memory is full?

I don't remember if it wraps around or is limited - after all, it is a data logging feature and therefore it uses its internal memory to store the voltage as well. 

However, with the proper USB cable and software I vaguely recall it can count indefinitely.

Adding a PC with some software may allow many meters to count events but then again, with the PC,  there's little need for a meter.   The meter would be nice as you have all the signal conditioning already along with a display, running off a battery. 

[rsjsouza]

Well... It is what it is - a datalgger that counts events. Better than nothing.

A custom specific counter is easy to put together anyways... 😁

[joeqsmith]

As I said, I watched Dave seeming to struggle to convert a calculator into an event counter.  Agree that pretty much anyone with some basic skill could spend time making a counter, easier for some than others.   I wouldn't mind having that feature built-in to a handheld meter as I could trigger on voltage, current, resistance.         

The idea of having a trigger with the data logging seems unique.  None of the handheld meters I have support anything like that.   They all use a fixed sampling interval.

[rsjsouza]

The idea of having a trigger with the data logging seems unique.  None of the handheld meters I have support anything like that.   They all use a fixed sampling interval.

The Keysights are great on logging. Another mode is the "autohold-like" trigger that Dave used in his ancient video of the resistor tolerance box redux - a steady measurement triggers the datalogger and stores the measurement. Quite handy on a few cases as well, but you need to have a well-oiled process.

Ah, found the video:

[Wytnucls]

Looks like it's limited to 10,000 counts.  Or does it continue to count after the memory is full?

The Gossen 26S counts events up to 100,000 over 10 hours (DC or AC voltage) without PC connection. Total time of test and time spent over high threshold are also displayed.
Additionally, it has a zero crossing counter and a stopwatch.
A function generator is also included (3Vpp), continuous or as a set train of pulses, up to a frequency of 1,000 Hz.
Min/Max values have a time stamp (accurate clock and date)

Most of the meters in the old Metra Hit S series (29S 28S 26S/26M 25S 18S) had the counter feature. The latest meters don't have it anymore, except for the S Energy.

[AJ3G]

Looks like it's limited to 10,000 counts.  Or does it continue to count after the memory is full?

I will have to conduct some research, but I believe the 10K number may be extended upwards on the 1282 when using the MeterLoger application. I have two 1282’s and I used them count and notify when an event had taken place, and when I was in the throws of it, remember having an enormous amount of events that I had to record and document over an extensive period of time.

I have not used this feature in a year, but I think I can pull the manual and find out for sure how many, if any above 10K the 1282 can record/document when used with MeterLoger.

[Fungus]

Maybe so, but when a known failed instrument comes back with a Calibration Sticker, not sure who is ignorant in that case.

You. I would ask money back and take my business elsewhere..

Nope. Calibration isn't "adjustment" (or "alignment", or whatever you want to call it).

Calibration is just noting what the meter says on screen when used to measure known-good references and giving you a certificate/paper trail for those readings. That's it.

If your meter is broken, they'll note the broken values on the calibration certificate and charge you the same amount as for a good meter.

Calibration in my opinion is a bit of a scam.

You're paying for the paper trail, nothing more, nothing less. It's like paying a notary to notarize a document. The amount notaries charge for a couple of minutes work is ridiculous, but can be necessary.

[Fungus]

For most people, having another known good device to see if you are close should be sufficient.

Yep, and this is one of the main reasons you need more than one meter. It can't be repeated often enough.

[2N3055]

Maybe so, but when a known failed instrument comes back with a Calibration Sticker, not sure who is ignorant in that case.

You. I would ask money back and take my business elsewhere..

Nope. Calibration isn't "adjustment" (or "alignment", or whatever you want to call it).

Calibration is just noting what the meter says on screen when used to measure known-good references and giving you a certificate/paper trail for those readings. That's it.

If your meter is broken, they'll note the broken values on the calibration certificate and charge you the same amount as for a good meter.

Wrong.
If it fails performance verification guardbands, you will get "calibration FAILED" sticker or none, and a report with measurements and a bill.
Sticker should be "In spec" decal. Otherwise it makes no sense..

[Fungus]

If your meter is broken, they'll note the broken values on the calibration certificate and charge you the same amount as for a good meter.

Wrong. If it fails performance verification guardbands, you will get "calibration FAILED" sticker or none, and a report with measurements and a bill.
Sticker should be "In spec" decal. Otherwise it makes no sense..

OK, you get a sticker, too.

The point is that it isn't anything to do with modifying/adjusting the meter, as many people seem to think. It's merely a performance report with verifiable paper trail.

[AJ3G]

Fungus - While I enjoy your cherry picking my posts to make points that coincide with your narrative, you seem to leave out the fact these instruments I refer to, in many cases, were sent back malfunctioning and were INOP going in.. I do not care what you proclaim calibration consist of, instruments that cant even make through initial boot, should not be issues a CAL sticker, or traceability paperwork..  Maybe in your world, yes, in mine, that is absurd and nothing more than a scam..



quote author=Fungus link=topic=262674.msg3388730#msg3388730 date=1609112923]

Maybe so, but when a known failed instrument comes back with a Calibration Sticker, not sure who is ignorant in that case.

You. I would ask money back and take my business elsewhere..

Nope. Calibration isn't "adjustment" (or "alignment", or whatever you want to call it).

Calibration is just noting what the meter says on screen when used to measure known-good references and giving you a certificate/paper trail for those readings. That's it.

If your meter is broken, they'll note the broken values on the calibration certificate and charge you the same amount as for a good meter.

Calibration in my opinion is a bit of a scam.

You're paying for the paper trail, nothing more, nothing less. It's like paying a notary to notarize a document. The amount notaries charge for a couple of minutes work is ridiculous, but can be necessary.
[/quote]

[bdunham7]

Calibration is just noting what the meter says on screen when used to measure known-good references and giving you a certificate/paper trail for those readings. That's it.

If your meter is broken, they'll note the broken values on the calibration certificate and charge you the same amount as for a good meter.

Calibration is (or is supposed to be) whatever the calibration service provider states that it is.  If they make that statement by reference to Z540.1, Z540.3 or ISO 17025 or some other standard, then that service should additionally be compliant with that standard. 

A typical industry-facing production calibration service will offer flat-rate all-in-one calibration services for common instruments where annual calibration is required for regulatory or ISO-type reasons. This is an expense for the business, so cheaper is better in many cases--just the required paper is all they want.  If the calibration service for a meter or similar instrument states 'no data' or 'OOT data', that means that if your instrument is within the stipulated specifications (which are often the wrong specs, IMO) it will be returned to you with calibration sticker(s) attached and a document that states that it was within specifications, but without specifying the actual measurements or in it a least some cases, the actual specifications used, the assumption apparently being that if none are stated, the manufacturers specs (but which ones?) are used as a default.  Typically, if the meter is out of specifications and can be adjusted, it will be, sometimes at additional charge and sometimes included in the flat-rate service.  And, typically, if the meter cannot be adjusted to meet the specifications, it will be returned with a 'REJECT' sticker and an explanation.

If you purchase this service from a less-than-honorable calibration lab, otherwise known as the low bidder with the most aggressive sales department, your calibration technician may be undertrained, overworked and poorly equipped.  Since there is no data provided, they can simply attach the stickers and send it back, hoping that the instrument is OK but still having the defense that it may have failed in the delivery truck on the way back to you.  How often does that happen?  At least some of the time from what I've seen--and that is what AJ3G is referring to.  And at least some of their customers are OK with that as far as I can tell.  That's why I wouldn't pay a nickel extra for any test equipment with a recent calibration sticker.

[Fungus]

I do not care what you proclaim calibration consist of, instruments that cant even make through initial boot, should not be issues a CAL sticker, or traceability paperwork..  Maybe in your world, yes, in mine, that is absurd and nothing more than a scam..

Of course it should.

If you're paying for a service, they should provide that service. It should go on record (paper trail and all) that the device is not fit for purpose and the it should come back with a "failed" sticker and matching certificate.

There's no "scam", if you send them a device that won't boot or pass basic tests then that's your problem, not theirs.

A "scam" would be if they don't provide the service, eg.

If you purchase this service from a less-than-honorable calibration lab, otherwise known as the low bidder with the most aggressive sales department, your calibration technician may be undertrained, overworked and poorly equipped.  Since there is no data provided, they can simply attach the stickers and send it back, hoping that the instrument is OK but still having the defense that it may have failed in the delivery truck on the way back to you.

That^s a scam.

[Fungus]

That's why I wouldn't pay a nickel extra for any test equipment with a recent calibration sticker.

If it was a reputable lab you should call them and/or look up the calibration number in their database to verify it.

But no, a sticker means nothing. A device can be damaged/misused within minutes after it comes back from calibration.

[Vestom]

That's why I wouldn't pay a nickel extra for any test equipment with a recent calibration sticker.

If it was a reputable lab you should call them and/or look up the calibration number in their database to verify it.

But no, a sticker means nothing. A device can be damaged/misused within minutes after it comes back from calibration.

True. But at least there is a good chance the measurements made in between two consecutive passed calibrations are OK. If you are doing any important measurements, you can send your instrument to calibration afterwards to verify it.

Of course, if what you measure isn't important. Don't.

[wizard69]

Actually in my world what you are describing is validation.    Calibration is the act of adjust a device to be in spec.   Now a broken device can fail both a validation or a calibration, which then means it needs to be repaired or junked and replaced.   If repaired the device will then need to be calibrated and often the tool it goes in will need to be validated.   

Maybe so, but when a known failed instrument comes back with a Calibration Sticker, not sure who is ignorant in that case.

You. I would ask money back and take my business elsewhere..

Nope. Calibration isn't "adjustment" (or "alignment", or whatever you want to call it).

Calibration is just noting what the meter says on screen when used to measure known-good references and giving you a certificate/paper trail for those readings. That's it.

If your meter is broken, they'll note the broken values on the calibration certificate and charge you the same amount as for a good meter.

Calibration in my opinion is a bit of a scam.

You're paying for the paper trail, nothing more, nothing less. It's like paying a notary to notarize a document. The amount notaries charge for a couple of minutes work is ridiculous, but can be necessary.