Author Topic: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter  (Read 53365 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« on: October 13, 2020, 08:21:03 am »
I'm now allowed to show it.
Stock coming end of this month.
The BM786 model will be exclusive to the EEVblog.
This is the US$150 class meter I've been talking about.
Supporters and those signed up to my newsletter will get first dibs.
Manual: https://www.eevblog.com/files/BM789-Manual-Original-Final.pdf
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 08:23:58 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2020, 08:23:25 am »
PCB shots
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 08:25:07 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2020, 08:56:33 am »
Final pricing available?
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2020, 09:00:34 am »
I quick look in the manual shows that 786 is nearly the same 785, except it adds temperature.
The 789 model has a couple of functions more and higher bandwidth on AC volt.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2020, 10:32:37 am »
I quick look in the manual shows that 786 is nearly the same 785, except it adds temperature.
The 789 model has a couple of functions more and higher bandwidth on AC volt.

786 has nS + temp
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2020, 10:50:53 am »
Congrats, the manual is very explanatory    :-+

Will the firmware evolve from this point   IE  add functions, or now it will be maintenance and bugs correction

Is there a big price jump between the 3 models

the 786 is 150$    the other 2 ??
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 10:54:04 am by coromonadalix »
 

Offline indeterminatus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2020, 11:09:01 am »
Nice :-DMM!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2020, 11:43:45 am »
Congrats, the manual is very explanatory    :-+
Will the firmware evolve from this point   IE  add functions, or now it will be maintenance and bugs correction

Just bug fixes if any, like the BM235 and all other Brymen meters.

Quote
Is there a big price jump between the 3 models
the 786 is 150$    the other 2 ??

I don't know the FOB prices for the others as they can't sell it to me due to existing dealer arrangements. So they created the BM786 just for me.
Brymen are very strict on these dealer agreements, it's the reason I can't sell the BM869 and others.
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2020, 12:56:35 am »
Congratulations on the release, Dave! That is a beautiful instrument that carries the pedigree of one of the greatest manufacturers these days.
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Offline BU508A

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 01:17:42 am »
Congratulations to the new meter, Dave.  :-+

Were you involved in the development process somehow? Defining specs? Asked by Brymen for a "wishlist"?  :D

Welectron in Germany is selling the BM235 EEVBlog edition DMM. Will the new BM786 also be distributed for Germany / the EU by Welectron?

Btw, I love blue multimeters on my bench.  :-+  :D
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2020, 01:34:37 am »
loll

I have the yellow ones, the red ones,  miss the blue and orange loll,  maybe some green tooo   :-DD
 

Offline umbro

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2020, 02:18:46 am »
Looks good :-DMM :-+
 

Offline Bud

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2020, 02:36:13 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//
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Offline BU508A

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2020, 02:39:27 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//

* BU508A is pointing Bud to the TEA thread...   :palm:  ::)   ;D
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Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2020, 03:14:38 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//
Not in the least.

Both brands have value - and both apply for this product.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2020, 05:01:48 am »
Your colleague asks you what multimeter you have. Your answer ?
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Offline Bud

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2020, 05:26:32 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//

* BU508A is pointing Bud to the TEA thread...   :palm:  ::)   ;D

Thanks but no thanks. That topic has become a cloaca with arrival of some new people some time back.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2020, 06:55:30 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//

It's always been like that with the BM235.
I think there is some actual requirement for UL testing too, otherwise it has to get tested again for each brand.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2020, 06:58:41 am »
Were you involved in the development process somehow? Defining specs? Asked by Brymen for a "wishlist"?  :D

Not the actual specs, they approached me with the new series in which they are obviously targeting the Fluke 70 series with the overmoulded design.
But I did get the nS feature added on the BM786 and have got them to make a few firmware changes and bugs fixed based on my testing.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2020, 06:59:27 am »
Welectron in Germany is selling the BM235 EEVBlog edition DMM. Will the new BM786 also be distributed for Germany / the EU by Welectron?

If they ask for it, maybe.
This first batch is just for me though.
 
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2020, 10:50:53 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//


I dont find this silly at all,  i would be proud of it, Dave helped Brymen for this model, i find this rewarding,   if some company or brands would listen feedback more often, i think some product could greatly evolve.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2020, 11:04:04 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//
Brymen is the manufacturer, EEVBlog is publicity stunt much like artist.. if you see a shirt with <Marylin Monroe> <or insert your favourite artist> picture on it and Lee Cooper name on the neck tag, will you buy it because of what? the picture? or the neck tag? the manufacturer will get the money, some percentage to sellers and probably royalty to the artist stunt, but since Marylin is currently integrating with hydrocarbon pool, royalty will not do any good to her.
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Offline MiroS

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2020, 11:16:48 am »
Having both Brymen and EEVBlog branding is kind of silly, dont you guys think.  :-//
Brymen is the manufacturer, EEVBlog is publicity stunt much like artist.. if you see a shirt with <Marylin Monroe> <or insert your favourite artist> picture on it and Lee Cooper name on the neck tag, will you buy it because of what? the picture? or the neck tag? the manufacturer will get the money, some percentage to sellers and probably royalty to the artist stunt, but since Marylin is currently integrating with hydrocarbon pool, royalty will not do any good to her.

I think important may be also  quick/trusted local support, low delivery cost/time and popularity. Unique product has usually unique quirks :) More folks will use it , less bugs will remain not solved.
Fortunately this is Brymen, but anyway I think they will first take care for their main product line than for niche product 'business is business'.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2020, 12:38:41 pm »
I think important may be also  quick/trusted local support, low delivery cost/time and popularity. Unique product has usually unique quirks :) More folks will use it , less bugs will remain not solved.
Fortunately this is Brymen, but anyway I think they will first take care for their main product line than for niche product 'business is business'.

Eer, this is their "main product line". It's their brand new design that will be sold by every dealer around the world.
That they changed the colour to blue and changed a couple of lines of code for a version for me makes no difference. All issues/bug fixes found on the others models automatically get fixed on my model, and vice-versa.
Note the model options on the PCB in the photo above, near the connectors, they allowed for the possibility of models 783 through 789.
FYI, virtually all of the issues, both hardware and software found on the BM235, were found by EEVblog users, not by people buying the identical Brymen branded BM235.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 12:43:02 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2020, 12:41:42 pm »
Really nice. I have some questions:
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?
Does it come with a Cal certificate?

It looks to have very useful features for this price, I think I want to buy a few of them for work.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2020, 12:46:04 pm »
Really nice. I have some questions:
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?
Does it come with a Cal certificate?

It should work ok with rehcargables:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us$150-class-multimeter/msg3077681/#msg3077681
No cal certificate, just like other Brymens.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2020, 12:52:11 pm »
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?

+1 , and also Lithium cells ? As these have tad higher voltage.

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2020, 12:54:11 pm »
BTW, I don't actually have the blue version yet, it's on the courier truck. I only have the red proto version.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2020, 12:54:33 pm »
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?
+1 , and also Lithium cells ? As these have tad higher voltage.

Yes, confirmed ok by Brymen.
 
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Offline tszaboo

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2020, 01:02:45 pm »
Really nice. I have some questions:
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?
Does it come with a Cal certificate?

It should work ok with rehcargables:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us$150-class-multimeter/msg3077681/#msg3077681
No cal certificate, just like other Brymens.
Well, 3.55V/3= 1.18V. That is around 50% DoD of a NiMH, so not perfect.
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2020, 03:27:33 pm »

A question?

Will firmware be field upgradeable?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2020, 02:25:27 am »
Will firmware be field upgradeable?

Technically there is a programming header inside, but Brymen are super secret about their processor used. So that's a "no" for now.
At least it's programable, unlike the BM235 which uses an OTP part.
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2020, 03:43:50 am »
Will firmware be field upgradeable?

Technically there is a programming header inside, but Brymen are super secret about their processor used. So that's a "no" for now.
At least it's programable, unlike the BM235 which uses an OTP part.

I'd say send one off for a decapping and see what it is, but I wouldn't want to hurt a relationship for idle curiosity.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2020, 10:49:32 am »
Will firmware be field upgradeable?

Technically there is a programming header inside, but Brymen are super secret about their processor used. So that's a "no" for now.
At least it's programable, unlike the BM235 which uses an OTP part.

I'd say send one off for a decapping and see what it is, but I wouldn't want to hurt a relationship for idle curiosity.

My guess is one of the really low end asian brands. On both the BM235 and this one they talk about struggles having enough memory to add new functions, so it's very memory limited.
 
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2020, 07:48:14 pm »
BM786 looks really good but any chance it actually weighs 635g?  Fluke 179 is similar in dimensions (although can't say for sure about the depth/thickness front to back as far as case/probe holder vs. meter itself), but the 179 is 420g.  Also, compare the weight and HWD in the 786 manual to the weight and HWD of the BM869S.  Maybe the 786 manual specs for weight (or otherwise maybe HWD) need an edit?  Just curious.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2020, 10:41:16 pm »
BM786 looks really good but any chance it actually weighs 635g?  Fluke 179 is similar in dimensions (although can't say for sure about the depth/thickness front to back as far as case/probe holder vs. meter itself), but the 179 is 420g.  Also, compare the weight and HWD in the 786 manual to the weight and HWD of the BM869S.  Maybe the 786 manual specs for weight (or otherwise maybe HWD) need an edit?  Just curious.

Yeah, mistake. It's 414g with batteries. My 77-IV is 408g.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2020, 10:45:09 pm »
vs the 77IV for those curious.
 
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Offline sdt

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2020, 11:05:03 pm »
How do the DC+AC modes work?

Does it flip back and forth between separate DC & AC measurements?
 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2020, 11:30:49 pm »
vs the 77IV for those curious.

Your new meter is going to be very popular.  Congrats!
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2020, 05:35:40 pm »
How do the DC+AC modes work?

Does it flip back and forth between separate DC & AC measurements?
I don't know about this meter, but in my BM857 (also single display) the AC+DC adds the DC with the AC RMS value of the input, and you can cycle between AC, DC and AC+DC modes using the buttons.
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Offline HKJ

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2020, 06:24:38 pm »
AC+DC is always a single value compromised of sqrt(sqr(AC)+sqr(DC)), the question is how the meter does this.
Most meters reads a AC value, then a DC value and then do the calculation, i.e. reducing the update rate, a few meters may be able to do a combine AC+DC measurement in one conversion. When doing separate AC and DC measurement there is also a issue about the time needed to do the switch between them.
 
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Offline MosherIV

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2020, 07:02:33 pm »
I think te question about ac+dc is more about how is it displayed with only single display.

My Fluke 187 does it but has dual display.
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2020, 07:55:22 pm »
I think te question about ac+dc is more about how is it displayed with only single display.

My Fluke 187 does it but has dual display.
That is how I understood the question when I provided my reply above.
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Offline ogdento

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2020, 10:29:26 pm »
This is nearly the only meter I'd ever need.  My only gripe is there's no low-z (on the 786)... will there be an eevblog-blue 789?
 

Offline sdt

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2020, 11:45:36 pm »
That is how I understood the question when I provided my reply above.

Thanks for the replies, that clears up a lot.

Neither of my two meters (ut139c & an8008) have any sort of combined AC & DC modes. I've seen meters with dual display, but not come across DC+AC before.

To be honest I'd never even considered what the AC mode would report in the presence of a DC offset. From the comments I take it the AC mode is AC coupled and ignores the DC offset, and the DC+AC mode is the numeric sum of what the DC and AC modes would report.
 

Offline ve7xen

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2020, 12:14:10 am »
To be honest I'd never even considered what the AC mode would report in the presence of a DC offset. From the comments I take it the AC mode is AC coupled and ignores the DC offset, and the DC+AC mode is the numeric sum of what the DC and AC modes would report.

Yes, though it is the geometric mean, not sum. It is giving you the total RMS value of the input, rather than the RMS value of the AC or DC components only (which is what you [ideally] get in those respective modes).

I think there are some DMMs out there that don't actually AC-couple the AC range, so YMMV, but this is what would normally be expected.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2020, 06:14:13 am »
will there be an eevblog-blue 789?

No, I'm not allowed to sell it, as there is an official Australian dealer who has already said they want to carry it.
Good luck trying to buy it from them: https://www.cabac.com.au/
I don't know why they bother with Cabac, I'd sell 100 times the meters they would.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2020, 06:17:44 am »
AC+DC is always a single value compromised of sqrt(sqr(AC)+sqr(DC)), the question is how the meter does this.
Most meters reads a AC value, then a DC value and then do the calculation, i.e. reducing the update rate, a few meters may be able to do a combine AC+DC measurement in one conversion. When doing separate AC and DC measurement there is also a issue about the time needed to do the switch between them.

This is why the AC+DC mode is on the DC range switch. It can measure DC and then switch in an AC coupling cap, and then it display the  combined DC+AC value.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 06:19:46 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline wolfy007

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2020, 07:38:50 am »
will there be an eevblog-blue 789?

No, I'm not allowed to sell it, as there is an official Australian dealer who has already said they want to carry it.
Good luck trying to buy it from them: https://www.cabac.com.au/
I don't know why they bother with Cabac, I'd sell 100 times the meters they would.

I remember them, their online store is still shit I see, I remember I ended up buying a Brymen meter I wanted from Europe instead of them.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2020, 11:02:46 am »
On my multimeter (UT71D), the voltage AC+DC is constantly converted to true RMS by the AD636.

Vrms= Avg x [Vin^2/Vrms]

If AC only is required, Vin is routed through a capacitor before reaching the true RMS converter.
The AC/AC+DC switch works on the V AC selector position only.
The DC component is read on the V DC selector position.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 01:05:10 pm by Wytnucls »
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #50 on: October 17, 2020, 12:03:12 pm »
On my multimeter (UT71D), the voltage AC+DC is always converted to true RMS by the AD636.

Vrms= Avg x [Vin^2/Vrms]

If AC only is required, Vin is routed through a capacitor before reaching the true RMS converter.
The AC/AC+DC switch works on the V AC selector position only.
The DC component is read on the V DC selector position.

You are correct, RMS converter by definition converts AC+DC value by definition (it just a waveform to them). So if you DC couple them you get AC+DC, if you AC couple them you get AC RMS only.

People are probably confused by DUAL display mode on (for instance BM869S) that shows AC RMS and AC+DC RMS od screen at the same time... Those two are separate measurements that need to be switched back and forth between modes.

 

Offline ogdento

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2020, 11:50:51 pm »
Too bad about the 789, but I guess it really doesn't matter... the 786 is fantastic for my electronics tinkering and would probably never leave my bench anyway. (Not that it couldn't handle it, but there's no reason to drag it under the house or into the attic).  The old bm257 has low-z/ef and can sit in the tool bag for the household wiring jobs.
 

Offline multiJ

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2020, 12:12:42 pm »
joeqsmith has in hand the new Brymen 7series multimeter(s?) for testing  :)

at 9.04
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2020, 06:43:50 pm »
joeqsmith has in hand the new Brymen 7series multimeter(s?) for testing  :)
...

The one I pulled out is the BM786.  As I mentioned, Brymen does not yet have the generic front covers for it.  Rather than wait, the meter was shipped with a different cover, similar to what Dave has shown.   The PCB, firmware and back case half are all the release versions so as far as making a review we should be good.   I was very clear of my intent and Brymen was onboard. 

Brymen has stood behind their products from day one.  Like me, I think they like seeing how their designs stack up against other brands on a level playing field.   I'm looking forward to seeing how it holds up.   
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2020, 09:42:26 pm »
joeqsmith has in hand the new Brymen 7series multimeter(s?) for testing  :)
...
The one I pulled out is the BM786.  As I mentioned, Brymen does not yet have the generic front covers for it.  Rather than wait, the meter was shipped with a different cover, similar to what Dave has shown.   The PCB, firmware and back case half are all the release versions so as far as making a review we should be good.

I just got the final blue branded version, was going to do an unboxing video, but here you go. Note the decal stickers on the red proto.
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2020, 02:07:04 am »
I'm not too concerned with them using stickers to change the lettering on this meter.  The only time it would be a problem is during my chemical tests.   I will just avoid those areas. 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2020, 03:16:46 am »
I'm not too concerned with them using stickers to change the lettering on this meter.  The only time it would be a problem is during my chemical tests.   I will just avoid those areas.

I'm not sure a non-sticker red version exists, they went straight to blue for me.
So likely the one you got is one of a bunch they built to have sent to UL for testing. Should be identical to the shipped blue version but I haven't opened mine yet to confirm. My internal photos above are from my red sticker version.
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2020, 12:48:55 pm »
I'm not too concerned with them using stickers to change the lettering on this meter.  The only time it would be a problem is during my chemical tests.   I will just avoid those areas.

I'm not sure a non-sticker red version exists, they went straight to blue for me.
So likely the one you got is one of a bunch they built to have sent to UL for testing. Should be identical to the shipped blue version but I haven't opened mine yet to confirm. My internal photos above are from my red sticker version.

From above:
Quote
As I mentioned, Brymen does not yet have the generic front covers for it.  Rather than wait, the meter was shipped with a different cover, similar to what Dave has shown.   The PCB, firmware and back case half are all the release versions so as far as making a review we should be good.

I could have waited for the final cover but Brymen was fine with me showing it with the taped cover.  I plan to start working on it over the weekend.  Being a Brymen, I am not anticipating anything but a boring review where the meter just works... :-DD   
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Offline radiolistener

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2020, 01:25:34 pm »
The first thing that catches my eye is that this new DMM has 60000 count instead of 500000 count like BM-867/869.

What is the reason to use less than 500000 count chipset for modern DMM?
 

Offline multiJ

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2020, 01:30:56 pm »
The first thing that catches my eye is that this new DMM has 60000 count instead of 500000 count like BM-867/869.

What is the reason to use less than 500000 count chipset for modern DMM?

Cost?
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2020, 01:44:59 pm »
Cost?

I bought BM867 for about 150 USD.
This BM786 price is also 150 USD.


But BM867 has 500000 count mode, while BM786 has just 60000 count.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2020, 02:15:26 pm »
500,000 count is just for higher resolution on DC volt. It does not improve your accuracy.
Some may find it useful to watch a battery draining slowly, for instance.
Not a deal breaker for most users.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2020, 02:25:59 pm »
Cost?

I bought BM867 for about 150 USD.
This BM786 price is also 150 USD.


But BM867 has 500000 count mode, while BM786 has just 60000 count.

To me bigger difference is dual display vs single display. It is more of a refreshed addition to of 857/9 series..
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2020, 02:28:43 pm »
I always hate how people see "that 500k  count mode",  its an real 50k count      with an added bonus ...   

I love the 60k count of the 786,  maybe a 600k count hack with another lcd      loll

We love huge display counts  loll


Great job for the 786  Dave



 

Offline Electro Fan

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2020, 02:35:32 pm »
786 is a friendlier size and weight than the 867.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2020, 03:16:34 pm »
I also use the BM869s high resolution mode.  It's too bad it's not supported in all modes.    That Gossen Ultra or what ever they call it now is a 300,000 count meter for about $850.   Normally I am using the old bench meters.    I'm also a fan of dual and tri-display meters, assuming they actually display something useful. 

***
Actually, what I should have wrote about the 500K mode is it would have been nice to have a sticky mode where it is always active.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 09:23:03 pm by joeqsmith »
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2020, 09:15:26 pm »
Cost?
I bought BM867 for about 150 USD.
This BM786 price is also 150 USD.
But BM867 has 500000 count mode, while BM786 has just 60000 count.

$150 is not the normal price for the BM867
The BM786 is smaller and has features not found on the BM867.
I can assure you the FOB cost of the BM786 is lower.
Having the extra digit requires more segments on the LCD, and possibly a bigger or extra driver chip as a result, and a bigger case or smaller font.
500,000 count is no use for what appears to be the intended market of a Fluke 70 series competitor.
There might also be other compromises.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2020, 09:18:37 pm »
I always hate how people see "that 500k  count mode",  its an real 50k count      with an added bonus ...   
I love the 60k count of the 786,  maybe a 600k count hack with another lcd      loll

Remember, 20% of the time the 60,000 count BM786 is going to have the same resolution as the 500,000 count BM876, and at better accuracy.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 11:58:33 pm by EEVblog »
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2020, 11:09:35 am »
Cost?
I bought BM867 for about 150 USD.
This BM786 price is also 150 USD.
But BM867 has 500000 count mode, while BM786 has just 60000 count.

$150 is not the normal price for the BM867
I have been following the prices of this model for a few years and the price at the tme site has been stuck at US$156.00.
https://www.tme.com/us/en-us/details/bm867/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm867s/

500,000 count is no use for what appears to be the intended market of a Fluke 70 series competitor.
The 500k count is just a trend viewer - useful for charges and discharges, but with very loose accuracy. Something similar to the 20k count mode of the 87V.

What I really want to see is if the BM786 in 60k count is snappier than Keysight's U1282A.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2020, 11:55:16 am »
What I really want to see is if the BM786 in 60k count is snappier than Keysight's U1282A.

Check out Joe's video:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hear-kitty-kitty-kitty-nope-not-that-kind-of-cat/msg3293014/#msg3293014
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2020, 04:23:43 pm »
The 500k count is just a trend viewer - useful for charges and discharges, but with very loose accuracy. Something similar to the 20k count mode of the 87V.

What I really want to see is if the BM786 in 60k count is snappier than Keysight's U1282A.
I tend to agree.  It's common that I am more interested in relative numbers than absolute.  How much something drifts for example.   It's proven to be useful. 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2020, 10:21:59 pm »
The 500k count is just a trend viewer - useful for charges and discharges, but with very loose accuracy. Something similar to the 20k count mode of the 87V.

What I really want to see is if the BM786 in 60k count is snappier than Keysight's U1282A.
I tend to agree.  It's common that I am more interested in relative numbers than absolute.  How much something drifts for example.   It's proven to be useful.
Yes, for that the 500k count mode is great.

BTW, congratulations on getting the new Brymen as an exclusive. I'll watch the video later.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 10:23:52 pm by rsjsouza »
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2020, 11:43:31 pm »
What I really want to see is if the BM786 in 60k count is snappier than Keysight's U1282A.

It'll do 10 times/sec updating in capture mode, so fast it's a bit disconcerting.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #73 on: October 25, 2020, 10:49:19 am »
What I really want to see is if the BM786 in 60k count is snappier than Keysight's U1282A.

It'll do 10 times/sec updating in capture mode, so fast it's a bit disconcerting.
Thank you. I meant the settling rate of the autorange but that is quite a good rate as well. 

After watching Joe's video, I could tell the two seem to use different approaches for the autorange. I did a side-by-side comparison timing with the ohms and capacitance ranges (the ones where the lag is larger). Joe mentioned 15s to settle on the 40M measurement, while my Keysight was about 2s. This was becoming less dramatic as resistance decreased, with a crossing point of performance somewhere (didin't verify) and  the Keysight becomes slower to the point of taking almost 6s to read my 33 ohms resistor, while the Brymen becomes significantly faster.

Conductivity tests were similar in speed (perhaps because there are not many ranges to cycle).

I also saw an edge for the Keysight on the capacitance - not very dramatic, but both seem to pale in comparison to others such as the 87V, the UT61E or the U1273A. Voltages and current seemed quite equivalent.

I took these timings from Joe's video, thus this is not a definitive conclusion to the autorange performance at all.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #74 on: October 25, 2020, 01:52:30 pm »
That's correct.  It's very slow in resistance with values over 10M, on the order of 10-15 seconds to settle with the 40M.  From the video, you can also see the 150pF took a fair bit of time but then so did the 100uF.   Part 2 will include a few more speed comparisons.       
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2020, 02:01:36 pm »
That's correct.  It's very slow in resistance with values over 10M, on the order of 10-15 seconds to settle with the 40M.  From the video, you can also see the 150pF took a fair bit of time but then so did the 100uF.   Part 2 will include a few more speed comparisons.     
Ah, I got confused there. The 150pF on the Keysight was instantaneous (as with everything below 1uF) but the 100uF was about the same between the two.

BTW, I measured mine with a 100M resistor
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #76 on: October 25, 2020, 03:08:14 pm »
The manual shows the high end for this meter is 60M.  They show a 0.1uA current for the 6M range and 0.01uA for the 60M range. 

If you wanted some closer numbers to compare it with yours, just let me know the value and we can set it up with the counter and high speed camera. 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #77 on: October 28, 2020, 01:44:44 am »
The manual shows the high end for this meter is 60M.  They show a 0.1uA current for the 6M range and 0.01uA for the 60M range. 

If you wanted some closer numbers to compare it with yours, just let me know the value and we can set it up with the counter and high speed camera.
Ah, no worries. I think the ballpark is accurate enough to expose how the two multimeters somewhat compare with each other in the capacitance and the ohms.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #78 on: October 28, 2020, 01:54:59 am »
No problem.  It may be a while so if you come up with something later, I'm fine with it. 
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Offline wizard69

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #79 on: October 28, 2020, 02:17:30 pm »
The first thing that catches my eye is that this new DMM has 60000 count instead of 500000 count like BM-867/869.

What is the reason to use less than 500000 count chipset for modern DMM?

The first thing that comes up when I see comments like this is how accurate are those 500,000 count hand held DMM's?   

The second thing that comes to mind is how often do you really need to resolve to that many digits in a handheld.    If I'm about to calibrate something I will use a device (handheld or not) that is designed for the task at hand.   More importantly that device will be on some sort of calibration schedule.    Most DMM's of the handheld variety are seldom kept on a stringent cal program.   That is the case in the hobby world as well as the commercial world.   

60,000 counts in a handheld device is a bit of a luxury as in many use cases you can get buy with 3-4 digits easy.   In fact sometimes you are better off with fewer digits.    Sometimes too much info is a bad thing.   By the way I'm not trying to say that high precision and high resolution is a bad thing in a handheld meter, just that for many users it really serves no purpose.

For example at work I'm involved in industrial systems under 600 VAC and similar for DC systems.   I can't ever remember needing to know the voltages on such systems beyond the first decimal point.   At lower control system voltages under 24 VDC you seldom need to know what power supplies are doing beyond the second decimal point.   It is only when you get involved in instrumentation that accuracy and resolution are important for calibration work, at that point you are working with traceable instruments anyways.   So 60,000 counts is more than good enough in this context.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2020, 02:26:45 pm »
As has been mentioned before, accuracy to 5 or 6 digits is rarely needed on most people's bench - but 5 or 6 digits of resolution are often very useful.

For example - If I have a reading of 4.5678V and when I alter the circuit somehow, the reading becomes 4.5675, then I have a pretty good idea the voltage went down - just a little.  Sometimes, that's exactly the bit of information you need.  The absolute accuracy could be out by 10%, but the change will still be a valid observation.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2020, 06:20:38 pm »
The first thing that catches my eye is that this new DMM has 60000 count instead of 500000 count like BM-867/869.

What is the reason to use less than 500000 count chipset for modern DMM?

Simple: Because even 6000 counts is 0.016% accuracy. Supporting 6000 counts properly already requires very high precision components.

 

Offline HKJ

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #82 on: October 28, 2020, 06:27:16 pm »
Simple: Because even 6000 counts is 0.016% accuracy. Supporting 6000 counts properly already requires very high precision components.

Usually not, it can be as bad as 0.16%
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #83 on: October 28, 2020, 07:25:56 pm »
Simple: Because even 6000 counts is 0.016% accuracy. Supporting 6000 counts properly already requires very high precision components.

Usually not, it can be as bad as 0.16%

Sure, it drops down to 600 counts if you're measuring (eg.) 7V, that's 0.16%.

The solution isn't to go to 500k counts though. 10k counts would be 0.01% on all ranges.

If we apply Benford's law the ideal number of counts is 20k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2020, 08:15:42 pm »
Simple: Because even 6000 counts is 0.016% accuracy. Supporting 6000 counts properly already requires very high precision components.

Usually not, it can be as bad as 0.16%

Sure, it drops down to 600 counts if you're measuring (eg.) 7V, that's 0.16%.

The solution isn't to go to 500k counts though. 10k counts would be 0.01% on all ranges.

If we apply Benford's law the ideal number of counts is 20k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law

Benford's law is not so much relevant in electronics in this context. We have common voltages used: 5, 12, 13.2, 24, 48, 120, 240, 440 etc...
You measure according to system voltages, and those will have standardized, artificial grouping.

20000 is very good but 50000/60000 count is even better and keeps electronics measurements in long scale most of the time.

That is my observation.. Not a law.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2020, 12:09:26 am »
If I only would have only taken a minute to read the title of that wiki page on Benford's law and became an expert, I could have saved myself $12K on the new 8.5 digit Keysight meter.   

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #86 on: October 29, 2020, 02:40:57 am »
For those interested in accuracy, the BM786 beats the BM869 on DC current, 0.075%+20  across three lowest ranges vs 0.1-0.15%.
And better on the high end at 0.3% vs 0.5%
Not bad considering the lower price point.
 
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Offline okurka

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #87 on: October 30, 2020, 06:28:43 am »
The BM786 model will be exclusive to the EEVblog.

So Brymen won't sell the BM786 elsewhere with red housing, like they do with the BM235?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2020, 06:58:09 am »
So Brymen won't sell the BM786 elsewhere with red housing, like they do with the BM235?

The BM235 existed before Dave ordered a blue one.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #89 on: October 30, 2020, 07:39:42 am »
So Brymen won't sell the BM786 elsewhere with red housing, like they do with the BM235?
The BM235 existed before Dave ordered a blue one.

Technically, but I was the first to sell it, and I helped a little in the development and debug. I knew about it more than a year before it came out. I was also appointed the sole Australian distributor.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #90 on: October 30, 2020, 07:41:49 am »
The BM786 model will be exclusive to the EEVblog.
So Brymen won't sell the BM786 elsewhere with red housing, like they do with the BM235?

Correct, it's a mid range model just for me, because the "official" Brymen Australian dealer already called dibs on the BM789, and Brymen are fiercely loyal to their dealerships, even if those dealership are
hopeless. This is why I can't sell any other Brymen models.
 
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Offline Nixfried

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #91 on: October 30, 2020, 07:48:54 am »
If I only would have only taken a minute to read the title of that wiki page on Benford's law and became an expert, I could have saved myself $12K on the new 8.5 digit Keysight meter.

Awesome! 3458a robustness test incoming?  >:D
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #92 on: October 30, 2020, 08:38:39 am »
20000 is very good but 50000/60000 count is even better and keeps electronics measurements in long scale most of the time.

Why only "most of the time"? Shouldn't it be "all the time"?  :popcorn:

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #93 on: October 30, 2020, 08:41:52 am »
If I only would have only taken a minute to read the title of that wiki page on Benford's law and became an expert, I could have saved myself $12K on the new 8.5 digit Keysight meter.

Benford's law applies to any number of digits. All you need is a multimeter with a little oven in it.

(How many digits before we have to control air pressure, too? Anybody know? I'm sure I read somewhere that some multimeters have a maximum altitude in their specification.)
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #94 on: October 30, 2020, 09:04:20 am »
20000 is very good but 50000/60000 count is even better and keeps electronics measurements in long scale most of the time.

Why only "most of the time"? Shouldn't it be "all the time"?  :popcorn:

Try measuring 7.0000V and see what happens.
 

Offline HKJ

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #95 on: October 30, 2020, 09:19:47 am »
(How many digits before we have to control air pressure, too? Anybody know? I'm sure I read somewhere that some multimeters have a maximum altitude in their specification.)

That is due to high voltage arching, more isolation distance is required at low pressure.
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #96 on: October 30, 2020, 10:50:56 am »
Another problem at high altitude is that cooling gets less effective, both passive and with a fan. At least the fan could compensate with a little more speed.
The main limit is the required (by the standards) distances going up at 2000 m altitude. So it's very common to find a break / limit at 2000 m, especially for higher voltage instruments.

There is a small effect of pressure detectable for the metal can references (e.g. LTZ1000, LTFLU) - something in the sub ppm range. So only relevant of the very high end. This would not really limit the use at higher altitude - maybe a point to those who send a reference to NIST in colorado.

There is always the problem of having voltage so you just have to switch to the next larger range. This can happen with 2000 counts and can happen with 6000 counts. There is nothing so special with the leading 1, it's more or less an even distribution on a log scale. It was a bit special in the old times (e.g nixi tubes) with the display part was expensive.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #97 on: October 30, 2020, 01:16:36 pm »
The Fluke 87V manual says:


 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #98 on: October 30, 2020, 11:31:58 pm »
If I only would have only taken a minute to read the title of that wiki page on Benford's law and became an expert, I could have saved myself $12K on the new 8.5 digit Keysight meter.

Awesome! 3458a robustness test incoming?  >:D

Once I learned I didn't need anything that fancy, I traded it in on a new Harbor Freight meter.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Offline UnexpectedBill

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2020, 06:22:54 pm »
I am curious if this meter will have any PC link/datalogging capabilities. Based on the manual and PCB pictures, I'm guessing that it will not.
 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #100 on: November 01, 2020, 03:41:56 am »
nope  Dave said it wont have this option

if i recall something wasn't working properly ??
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2020, 08:54:14 am »
I am curious if this meter will have any PC link/datalogging capabilities. Based on the manual and PCB pictures, I'm guessing that it will not.

It was supposed to have a Bluetooth model option, but there is now no ETA on that. It has an internal connector for it, but the proto I had did not have any activity on the pins. Haven't checked the final model yet.
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2020, 10:02:57 am »
I am curious if this meter will have any PC link/datalogging capabilities. Based on the manual and PCB pictures, I'm guessing that it will not.

It was supposed to have a Bluetooth model option, but there is now no ETA on that. It has an internal connector for it, but the proto I had did not have any activity on the pins. Haven't checked the final model yet.

If it does end up with a BT module, it would be nice if it is not the low power version.

Battery life is not really an issue these days, given things are usually designed to run on NiMH cells, and the low power BT on the 121GW has proved to be troublesome in some circumstances, judging by the discussion thread.

I already have a few logging meters, but it never hurts to have another...
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline matthijs

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2020, 10:17:42 am »
Can we expect it to be available in Europe? Looking for a new multimeter, but buying it from outside Europe is going to cost alot on customs.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2020, 10:27:26 am »
Can we expect it to be available in Europe? Looking for a new multimeter, but buying it from outside Europe is going to cost alot on customs.

Sparky Labs and Welectron will carry it.
 
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Offline matthijs

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #105 on: November 01, 2020, 10:36:27 am »
Perfect, can't wait to get one. Cheers.
 

Offline Roger Need

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #106 on: November 02, 2020, 03:13:39 am »
How can we buy the BM786 in Canada?  Will it be on amazon.ca?

Roger
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #107 on: November 02, 2020, 03:47:19 am »
How can we buy the BM786 in Canada?  Will it be on amazon.ca?

Eventually, yes. Will be on my website first though, still waiting for ETA. End of October promised has come and gone.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #108 on: November 02, 2020, 07:14:27 am »
Have you emailed them about the bill for your first order yet?
 

Offline Trader

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #109 on: November 02, 2020, 09:54:04 am »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #110 on: November 02, 2020, 10:09:34 am »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?

What do you mean? For electrician that works on 3 phase systems, one with measurements for that would be top.

If you mean best DC specs and longest scale, than BM869S and BM859S are best still...
You must study datasheets closely, for some ranges BM859S is slightly better than BM869S...

Also, ask yourself how old is Fluke 87 or 287....
BM869S is a few years old version of BM869 (without S)...

It's a multimeter, nothing new there, electrons didn't change lately...

 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #111 on: November 02, 2020, 10:33:35 am »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?

The BM869s.

500,000 counts in a dual display, CAT IV 1000V meter. What more could you ask for in a handheld?

PS: The 's' version indicates an upgrade over the original.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #112 on: November 02, 2020, 10:45:17 am »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?

The BM869S
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #113 on: November 02, 2020, 10:50:11 am »
The BM869s.
500,000 counts in a dual display, CAT IV 1000V meter. What more could you ask for in a handheld?

Depends on your needs. Basic stuff like AutoHold maybe? BeepLit continuity? EF tester? All standard on the new BM780 series.
Smaller and lighter perhaps?
For almost all people, the difference between CAT IV 1000V and CAT IV 600V spec is negligible.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #114 on: November 02, 2020, 10:51:31 am »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?

What do you mean? For electrician that works on 3 phase systems, one with measurements for that would be top.

If you mean best DC specs and longest scale, than BM869S and BM859S are best still...

The lower cost BM786 beats the BM869 on Dc current spec BTW.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #115 on: November 02, 2020, 11:56:31 am »
What more could you ask for in a handheld?
Smaller and lighter perhaps?

OK, that...  :)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #116 on: November 03, 2020, 02:00:53 am »
Quote
We found few unpredictable problems during BM786 first production lot. Our RDs & production are working on solving them and should be able to fix them shortly. I hope BM786 would be able to be ready for shipment by Nov 15. Will keep you updated.
 
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Offline Chalton_trc

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #117 on: November 12, 2020, 03:33:40 pm »
I like options like AutoHold, BeepLit continuity, V LoZ, V higher diode. Although I can live without them. I am more concerned about its reliability and that its problems are solved. This model had problems with auto-range, had problems with voltage when raising the frequency and also when measuring voltage in square wave when its frequency was varied. I don't know if all this has been solved today.
 

Offline MiroS

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2020, 02:51:22 am »
Update: The Nov 15th shipping date has slipped with no new ETA, they are still working on issues.
 
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Online Andrew McNamara

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #120 on: November 13, 2020, 03:06:09 am »
Update: The Nov 15th shipping date has slipped with no new ETA, they are still working on issues.

Given their meters are typically not field updatable, this is A Good Thing.  :-+
 

Offline Chalton_trc

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #121 on: November 13, 2020, 11:30:10 am »
Has youth problems. But when it matures and they fix their problems ... if they get the reliability of a BM869, the 7-series will be a great meter.
 

Offline MiroS

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #122 on: November 13, 2020, 12:17:53 pm »
Has youth problems. But when it matures and they fix their problems ... if they get the reliability of a BM869, the 7-series will be a great meter.

I would wait year at least , if no desperate need.
 

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #124 on: November 16, 2020, 07:43:33 am »
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM789-Multimeter
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM786-Multimeter-EEVBlog-Edition
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM785-Multimeter
At those prices, no offence to Dave, I'd be sticking with a red one.

I have no control over what Welectron sell it for.
To be fair, my commission from them on the BM786 would likely be worth more than the FOB price difference between the BM789 on which they would pay no commission.
I can sell it for well under US$150 direct on my store. It will be US$175 on Amazon.
Sparky Labs might be able to sell it cheaper than Welectron for those in the EU, but we'll see.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #125 on: November 16, 2020, 10:20:14 am »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?

What do you mean? For electrician that works on 3 phase systems, one with measurements for that would be top.

If you mean best DC specs and longest scale, than BM869S and BM859S are best still...

The lower cost BM786 beats the BM869 on Dc current spec BTW.

If you don't need the temperature scale, how about the 867S?
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #126 on: November 16, 2020, 10:54:51 am »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?

What do you mean? For electrician that works on 3 phase systems, one with measurements for that would be top.

If you mean best DC specs and longest scale, than BM869S and BM859S are best still...

The lower cost BM786 beats the BM869 on Dc current spec BTW.

If you don't need the temperature scale, how about the 867S?

BM867 has only advantage of dual display screen.

Correct comparison is with older single display 857/859 that have comparable accuracy. BM785/6/9 are more of a refresh of those single display meters. Honestly, 60000 display is good enough (500000 mode is of limited use) and BM78x series have nice features (remembers sound preferences, backlight was improved, has AutoHold, has Diode test mode same as Flukes, flashes light on continuity etc, check datasheet for details) that are supposed to remove some of complaints of traditional Fluke users.

Basicaly, Brymen BM789 series makes Fluke 87V seriously not worth the money they ask for it...
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #127 on: November 16, 2020, 10:53:33 pm »
Basicaly, Brymen BM789 series makes Fluke 87V seriously not worth the money they ask for it...

The BM780 series has the same overmolded rubber housing, size and shape as the Fluke 70 series, so it's clearly designed to compete with that. But it also has the electronics capability of the 87V as well.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #128 on: November 16, 2020, 10:56:22 pm »
What's the Brymen top high-end DMM now?  BM869s (2011) or BM789 (2020)?
What do you mean? For electrician that works on 3 phase systems, one with measurements for that would be top.
If you mean best DC specs and longest scale, than BM869S and BM859S are best still...
The lower cost BM786 beats the BM869 on Dc current spec BTW.
If you don't need the temperature scale, how about the 867S?

The BM867S still misses out on AutoHold, EF tester, Beeplit continuity, and is bigger and heavier.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #129 on: November 17, 2020, 01:50:37 pm »
Not quite true, if you press the REC button on the 867s before taking a measurement, then apply the probes to the DUT, or voltage source, then the meter does indeed record the HIGH value for you, not sure if this a documented feature or not, but it is handy.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #130 on: November 17, 2020, 02:04:47 pm »
Specmaster, by HIGH you mean the highest value read? The Autohold continuously monitors the inputs and holds (and beeps) for any stable measurement, regardless of any previous value.

The BM78x family having autohold is indeed a great advantage over the BM85x/BM86x, but the price differences and the feature overlaps surely don't help when trying to make a decision.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #131 on: November 17, 2020, 02:33:24 pm »
Correct, it is the highest value and you measure another voltage which is higher, then the meter will beep and store that new value, but has to be higher than the last one.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 
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Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #132 on: November 17, 2020, 03:20:35 pm »
It is documented. REC gives you the usual Max/Min/Average values as on other multimeters.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #133 on: November 17, 2020, 05:29:23 pm »
Yea, that's an entirely different thing.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #134 on: November 17, 2020, 05:56:28 pm »
It is documented. REC gives you the usual Max/Min/Average values as on other multimeters.
Yes I understand that, but what I'm saying here is, that the REC is a possible workaround to the issue of autohold, unless autohold will automatically reset itself each time, then you will have to manually reset it, then surely the REC function works in just same fashion, except, if you then probe another point of the DUT, if that voltage is higher than it will overwrite the held value.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Heathkit-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Advance-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #135 on: November 17, 2020, 10:25:39 pm »
It is documented. REC gives you the usual Max/Min/Average values as on other multimeters.
Yes I understand that, but what I'm saying here is, that the REC is a possible workaround to the issue of autohold, unless autohold will automatically reset itself each time

AutoHold does reset itself, that's why it's called AUTOhold. Just like the original Fluke TouchHold who I believe invented it on the 70 series.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #136 on: November 17, 2020, 10:40:21 pm »
It is documented. REC gives you the usual Max/Min/Average values as on other multimeters.
Yes I understand that, but what I'm saying here is, that the REC is a possible workaround to the issue of autohold, unless autohold will automatically reset itself each time

AutoHold does reset itself, that's why it's called AUTOhold. Just like the original Fluke TouchHold who I believe invented it on the 70 series.
Yes, it does, I just tried the Hold function on my Fluke 27 which works perfectly.
Who let Murphy in?

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Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #137 on: November 18, 2020, 12:33:22 pm »
Fuse replacement seems like a bit of a nuisance for such a recently designed multimeter:
8 screws to remove the front panel and battery compartment for access to both fuses.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #138 on: November 18, 2020, 11:19:23 pm »
Fuse replacement seems like a bit of a nuisance for such a recently designed multimeter:
8 screws to remove the front panel and battery compartment for access to both fuses.

Yes. That likely stems from design restrictions bought about by the decision to use the overmoulding to presumably look'n'feel like the Fluke 70 series.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #139 on: November 19, 2020, 06:04:34 am »
Fuse replacement seems like a bit of a nuisance

That's a good thing - teaches you to not blow fuses.  :-+
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #140 on: November 19, 2020, 10:42:32 am »
It might happen more often than you think, with a 400mA fuse in a 60,000 count meter.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #141 on: November 19, 2020, 11:35:31 am »
It might happen more often than you think, with a 400mA fuse in a 60,000 count meter.

It depends..

Since I have DP831 and UT210E , i haven't measured current with meter that often.
When I do, I alternate between Brymens and MTX3293 (that has only one current input), and use Metrix for current measurements at desk mostly because of that. Which means I usually have no source to blow 10A fuse.

On equipment that runs lead acid accumulators, I mainly use UT210E, mostly because I don't need absolute precision and no need to disconnect wiring..

I blew exactly 3 fuses in meters in 40 years... First one, 40 years ago, scared the bejesus out of me.. Since then I'm really careful about any current measurements...  Other 2 were measuring current on equipment connected to lead acid acccu, that while measuring drew too much current..

I also pretty much never rotate meter switch with voltage connected, even if I know it's perfectly safe.. I just have bad feeling in the stomach when I think about doing it...  What can I say, childhood traumas....  :-DD
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #142 on: November 19, 2020, 01:32:44 pm »
At least you don't have to then remove even more screws to pull the PCB to get at the fuses.   I tend to use other means to read current as well.   I've blown more fuses after I started looking at these handheld meters than in my entire life.   If a meter comes with glass, well, I can't resist watching them shatter.    :-DD
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #143 on: November 19, 2020, 03:27:14 pm »
It might happen more often than you think, with a 400mA fuse in a 60,000 count meter.

What's the relationship between the two?

If anything, 60,000 counts should make it less likely to blow a fuse because you can work more in the amps range.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 03:52:20 pm by Fungus »
 
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #144 on: November 19, 2020, 03:29:06 pm »
It might happen more often than you think, with a 400mA fuse in a 60,000 count meter.
Yes. Despite the price of HRC cartridges, I saw myself in the situation of occasional sudden spikes in current due to failures or shorts. All low-voltage electronics, but definitely enough to kill a 44/100.
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #145 on: November 19, 2020, 03:55:35 pm »
It might happen more often than you think, with a 400mA fuse in a 60,000 count meter.
Yes. Despite the price of HRC cartridges, I saw myself in the situation of occasional sudden spikes in current due to failures or shorts. All low-voltage electronics, but definitely enough to kill a 44/100.
As I said, it highly depends on what you do.
MTX3293 has only one current socket and is designed to autorange from 1mA to 100A (20a constant) range at all times. It will also switch to current mode automatically if you plug cable in current socket. So to blow a fuse, you have to go over 20 for some time, or over 100A for a short time...
I quite like it...
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #146 on: November 19, 2020, 04:11:37 pm »
It might happen more often than you think, with a 400mA fuse in a 60,000 count meter.

What's the relationship between the two?

If anything, 60,000 counts should make it less likely to blow a fuse because you can work more in the amps range.
The range is 600 mA, protected by a 400 mA fuse. Running 600mA for too long will blow the fuse eventually.

Notice that at 135% of its rated current a North American fuse must open
within one hour while an IEC fuse must be able to carry 150% of its rated
current for at least one hour
Cooper Bussmann
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 04:18:37 pm by Wytnucls »
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #147 on: November 22, 2020, 10:19:18 pm »
I guess they assume you wouldn't be measuring at full scale for extended periods of time. Nevertheless, an interesting mismatch of values.
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #148 on: November 22, 2020, 10:46:18 pm »
I guess they assume you wouldn't be measuring at full scale for extended periods of time. Nevertheless, an interesting mismatch of values.

Especially when you consider that 630mA is a standard fuse value.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #149 on: November 22, 2020, 10:54:05 pm »
I guess they assume you wouldn't be measuring at full scale for extended periods of time. Nevertheless, an interesting mismatch of values.

Very common.
The Fluke 70 and 80 series are both 6000 count and use a 440mA fuse.
 
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Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #150 on: November 23, 2020, 07:02:26 am »
Regardless, one needs to be careful when exceeding the fuse rated current for any length of time, especially in warm ambient condition.

I don't think Bussmann Cooper makes a 600mA fuse for Fluke multimeters, but SIBA does make a FF 630mA 1000V 32/6.3mm fuse, which would be a better match than the SIBA 400mA fuse installed at the Brymen factory.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 09:08:53 am by Wytnucls »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #151 on: November 23, 2020, 07:50:43 am »
Very common.
The Fluke 70 and 80 series are both 6000 count and use a 440mA fuse.

A 440mA fuse won't blow at 441mA. Fuses will often stand double their current, they just get very warm

Underrating the fuse in this way will make it much more likely to blow at the expected current (eg. 7-800mA in a 6000 count meter).

The best way was the way it used to be done, eg. the 600mA range would have a cheap 600mA glass fuse in series with an expensive 2A HRC fuse. The idea was to blow the cheap fuse in small slipups (we've all been there) but to still have HRC protection in industrial accidents.

I wonder why they stopped doing that, was it because of burden voltage?
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #152 on: November 23, 2020, 08:40:30 am »
There is a problem with a cheap fuse in series with the proper HRC fuse. With a DC source it is possible and not that unlikely that the cheap fuse can blow but not quench the arc, even with a current not large enough blow the higher rated HRC one. The extra heat will become a problem where the HRC fuse will not help with very much. The smaller fuse may still be OK, but should still be DC rated and thus not a really cheap one. This is kind of the price you have to pay for a CAT 3 rating.

A 440 mA fuse will likely not blow at 441 mA, but legally there is a chance it could. It usually takes more like twice the current to reliably blow the fuse, but some may bow earlier.

I see no real problem if the fuse would even well exceed the nominal range, like a 440 mA fuse in a 200 mA range, as long as the protection is up to it. Especially for the lower range a slightly larger fuse rating would be preferable and would also allow lower burden and less heat under normal conditions. However it still needs the protection (diodes) to be good for the higher current. This may need re-certification / testing and is thus not a change to be made easy.
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #153 on: November 23, 2020, 12:18:18 pm »
I guess they assume you wouldn't be measuring at full scale for extended periods of time. Nevertheless, an interesting mismatch of values.

Very common.
The Fluke 70 and 80 series are both 6000 count and use a 440mA fuse.
The Fluke 87 V has a a range of 400mA only, with a specified limit of 400mA continuous and overload 600mA for 18 hours.
The Fluke 179 has a range of 400mA only, with a specified limit of 600 mA overload for 2 minutes maximum, 10 minutes rest.

The Brymen 786 should have a limited mA range of 400mA, not 600mA.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 01:46:31 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline dcac

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #154 on: November 23, 2020, 03:04:29 pm »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?

 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #155 on: November 23, 2020, 03:16:40 pm »
Keysight 60,000 count meter manual:

Current can be measured at 440 mA continuously, and > 440 mA to 600 mA for 20
hours maximum.
To avoid blowing the multimeter’s 440 mA fuse, use the terminal only if you
are sure the current is less than 440 mA.


No warranty claim there.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 03:19:36 pm by Wytnucls »
 
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Offline wizard69

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #156 on: November 26, 2020, 03:11:59 am »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?

When has a blown fuse ever been covered  by a warranty?   
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #157 on: November 26, 2020, 08:11:52 am »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?

When has a blown fuse ever been covered  by a warranty?   

Quite.

Besides - if the fuse blew, how would they know the current they were measuring?  Might have been a steady state 590mA and blew when a transient hit.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #158 on: November 26, 2020, 08:43:41 am »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?

No.
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #159 on: November 26, 2020, 09:07:43 am »
Keysight 60,000 count meter manual:

Current can be measured at 440 mA continuously, and > 440 mA to 600 mA for 20
hours maximum.
To avoid blowing the multimeter’s 440 mA fuse, use the terminal only if you
are sure the current is less than 440 mA.


No warranty claim there.

A similar note should be included if the range is larger than the fuse rating.
With a warranty claim, the user could receive this missing bit of text from the instructions.  :-DD
Ideally the fuse values should be noted on the meter directly. I have seen this with some meters though there it was the usual way around, like 400 mA fuse for a 200 mA range.
One could argue to change the nominal range to the fuse rating and treat the extra range only as "over-range" for short time use. Due to thermal effect the accuracy is often anyway relatively poor at the upper end. So the specs for the reduced range could get better.
 

Offline dcac

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #160 on: November 26, 2020, 01:51:08 pm »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?

No.

How about then after the third or fourth time it happens within a couple of weeks?
 

Offline dcac

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #161 on: November 26, 2020, 01:52:28 pm »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?

When has a blown fuse ever been covered  by a warranty?   

Quite.

Besides - if the fuse blew, how would they know the current they were measuring?  Might have been a steady state 590mA and blew when a transient hit.

This customer was measuring the current draw from a battery through a resistor.

Are you saying 590mA is fine as long as you have absolutely zero transients.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #162 on: November 26, 2020, 02:53:26 pm »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?

When has a blown fuse ever been covered  by a warranty?   

Quite.

Besides - if the fuse blew, how would they know the current they were measuring?  Might have been a steady state 590mA and blew when a transient hit.

This customer was measuring the current draw from a battery through a resistor.

Are you saying 590mA is fine as long as you have absolutely zero transients.

Arguably, you'd only have a warranty claim if the fuse failed to blow, and the meter or user suffered damage as a result.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #163 on: November 27, 2020, 06:22:58 am »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?
No.
How about then after the third or fourth time it happens within a couple of weeks?

Then the user who knowingly installed a 400mA fuse three or 4 times and still complains about it blowing at 590mA should probably stop using a multimeter and give up electronics all together.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #164 on: November 27, 2020, 07:58:07 am »
How about then after the third or fourth time it happens within a couple of weeks?

PEBKAC.

(ok, it should be "PEBMAC"...  :-DMM )
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:59:40 am by Fungus »
 

Offline dcac

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #165 on: November 27, 2020, 11:53:04 am »
Will a blown 400mA fuse in BM786 be covered by the warranty - if customer claims it was only measuring 590mA when it happened?
No.
How about then after the third or fourth time it happens within a couple of weeks?

Then the user who knowingly installed a 400mA fuse three or 4 times and still complains about it blowing at 590mA should probably stop using a multimeter and give up electronics all together.

My mistake - I just noticed the print next to the uA/mA input jack actually says Max 0.6A and not only 0.6A. And i.e. BM869s does the same but it has at least a 440mA fuse so slightly more margin if you interpret it as 0.6A 'continuous' current.

Edit: that's actually not true either as BM786 might have a different perhaps slower type fuse.
 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 12:00:24 pm by dcac »
 

Offline dcac

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #166 on: November 27, 2020, 02:39:40 pm »
It seems the Bussmann 440mA fuse used in BM869s if often called 0.4A fuse. Bussmann doesn’t seem to have any 400mA rated fuse - but i.e. Siba does and have both 400mA and 440mA types.

In the datasheet for Bussmann (0.4A)/0.44A fuse it states ” Intended to carry 100% of rated current indefinitely." Looking at the characteristics curve it can handle about 1.2A for 300 seconds - beyond that time is not shown perhaps due to possible fatiguing coming into play.

https://www.elfa.se/Web/Downloads/_t/ds/DMM-B_eng_tds.pdf
 

Offline Invenis

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #167 on: November 29, 2020, 10:11:57 pm »
I was just about to pull a trigger on 869s and that came up :o What a nice multimeter! The LoZ, AutoHold, NCV and BeepLit. Now I'm trying to decide which one to get  :-// Also I wonder whether Brymen has some kind of refreshed version of 869s in the works.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #168 on: November 30, 2020, 02:46:52 am »
Also I wonder whether Brymen has some kind of refreshed version of 869s in the works.

Not that I am aware of.
 
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Offline xavier60

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #169 on: December 01, 2020, 08:58:26 am »
Really nice. I have some questions:
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?
Does it come with a Cal certificate?

It should work ok with rehcargables:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us$150-class-multimeter/msg3077681/#msg3077681
No cal certificate, just like other Brymens.
Well, 3.55V/3= 1.18V. That is around 50% DoD of a NiMH, so not perfect.
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.
If there is a problem with NiMh, then I wonder why only 3 cells when 4 is a more convenient quantity and would have very likely eliminated possible NiMh problems, space permitting.
Ill be finding out for myself.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2020, 02:41:29 am by xavier60 »
Hioki AS100D vom, HP 54645A dso, Fluke 87V dmm, AN8008 dmm, Agilent U8002A psu,  FY6600 function gen, New! Brymen BM857S-(With Battery)
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #170 on: December 01, 2020, 12:12:00 pm »
Really nice. I have some questions:
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?
Does it come with a Cal certificate?

It should work ok with rehcargables:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us$150-class-multimeter/msg3077681/#msg3077681
No cal certificate, just like other Brymens.
Well, 3.55V/3= 1.18V. That is around 50% DoD of a NiMH, so not perfect.
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.
If the there is a problem with NiMh, then I wonder why only 3 cells when 4 is a more convenient quantity and would have very likely eliminated possible NiMh problems, space permitting.
Ill be finding out for myself.

Not enough depth, it uses a new design vertical holder.
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #171 on: December 01, 2020, 12:18:44 pm »
The batteries are in a carrier that separates from the meter.  The three batteries are mounted side by side and the pack is perpendicular to the PCB.  The batteries themselves are located towards the very top most part of the meter.  The packs height sets the thickness of the meter.  It's well laid out, making use of every bit of space.   Using this technique while adding a fourth battery would make for a thicker or a taller meter.

Slow on the draw today...
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #172 on: December 01, 2020, 02:02:50 pm »
The batteries are in a carrier that separates from the meter.  The three batteries are mounted side by side and the pack is perpendicular to the PCB.  The batteries themselves are located towards the very top most part of the meter.  The packs height sets the thickness of the meter.  It's well laid out, making use of every bit of space.   Using this technique while adding a fourth battery would make for a thicker or a taller meter.

Slow on the draw today...
A picture is worth 78 words...  :-DD
« Last Edit: December 01, 2020, 02:04:25 pm by rsjsouza »
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #173 on: December 01, 2020, 08:19:42 pm »
you miss the other 922 words    :-DD,   nice pack design, or maybe 3d print another one with the batteries rotated in it, to acomodate a longer cell ??
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #174 on: December 01, 2020, 09:37:03 pm »
This battery compartment design seems to protect meter electronics from battery leakage if meter is stored both face down and back down... Nice..
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #175 on: December 02, 2020, 03:57:12 am »
The batteries are in a carrier that separates from the meter.  The three batteries are mounted side by side and the pack is perpendicular to the PCB.  The batteries themselves are located towards the very top most part of the meter.  The packs height sets the thickness of the meter.  It's well laid out, making use of every bit of space.   Using this technique while adding a fourth battery would make for a thicker or a taller meter.

Slow on the draw today...
A picture is worth 78 words...  :-DD
The way I type, it may have been faster too!
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #176 on: December 02, 2020, 10:36:55 am »
Really nice. I have some questions:
Does it work well with rechargeable AAA batteries?
Does it come with a Cal certificate?

It should work ok with rehcargables:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us$150-class-multimeter/msg3077681/#msg3077681
No cal certificate, just like other Brymens.
Well, 3.55V/3= 1.18V. That is around 50% DoD of a NiMH, so not perfect.
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

Or use Ni-Zn cells?
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #177 on: December 02, 2020, 11:25:27 am »
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

...and let them leak!  :scared:

The real question should be "Does it work with Eneloops"?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 06:52:59 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline MiroS

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #178 on: December 02, 2020, 05:54:38 pm »
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

...and let them leak.

The real question should be "Does it work with Eneloops"?

Good point. I am moving all to rechargeable batteries , no 'Eneloop' means for me  'pass by /  not to  buy'
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #179 on: December 03, 2020, 06:38:34 pm »
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

...and let them leak.

The real question should be "Does it work with Eneloops"?

Good point. I am moving all to rechargeable batteries , no 'Eneloop' means for me  'pass by /  not to  buy'

Mi-MH is not the only rechargeable chemistry. Not buying something because it doesn't work with Eneloops is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Ni-Zn have a nominal cell voltage of 1.6, though are 1.85-1.9 when freshly charged. I use them in my Fluke 289 with no ill effects.

Li-ion are an alternative also; you can get 1.5V AA cells, which have built in chargers, running of usb, or you can get AA sized cells with the usual 3.7V and use dummy AA's to match the voltage you want.

Personally I prefer the Ni-Zn as they are a variation on the existing and well understood nickel secondary cell. I'm still wary of using Li-ion in something I couldn't/wouldn't be happy to throw out of the window if things went wrong.
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Offline wizard69

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #180 on: December 26, 2020, 01:55:31 am »
Man this thread was hard to find.   

In any event is this meter still on as a coming new product.   It has been a few weeks and I've heard nothing.   

Maybe some of the other manufactures are getting jealous and are offering Dave new meters to plant the EEVBlog label on.  Yes wishful thinking but hey it is Christmas.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #181 on: December 26, 2020, 09:24:46 am »
Man this thread was hard to find.   
In any event is this meter still on as a coming new product.   It has been a few weeks and I've heard nothing.   

I just paid for my stock, so I guess it's coming shortly.


 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #182 on: December 26, 2020, 11:05:16 am »
Ahhhh....

Let us know when you have a price.
 
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Offline wizard69

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #183 on: December 26, 2020, 02:39:53 pm »
Man this thread was hard to find.   
In any event is this meter still on as a coming new product.   It has been a few weeks and I've heard nothing.   

I just paid for my stock, so I guess it's coming shortly.

So are taxes, I guess it will be RAMEN noodles all January.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #184 on: December 26, 2020, 05:04:17 pm »
Normally, when a new product comes out, I tend to give it some time while the company sorts out some kinks.   In this case, after spending a couple of months evaluating the meter and working with Brymen to make some improvements before its release, I'm looking forward to hearing what the first owners think of it.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
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Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #185 on: December 26, 2020, 09:26:03 pm »
Might be a bit off-topic, but which meter has the fasted continuity tester now? Is the BM786 in par with Fluke?
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #186 on: December 26, 2020, 10:20:34 pm »
Might be a bit off-topic, but which meter has the fasted continuity tester now? Is the BM786 in par with Fluke?

Are all Fluke products the same?

With no other constraints, I think the UT90A may still be one of the fasted.   

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Offline Pampalini

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #187 on: December 27, 2020, 12:14:10 pm »
BM780 Series - BM785 / BM789 leaflet

Prices in BIALL (excluding VAT)
  • BM785 - 529PLN (~116€)
  • BM789 - 699PLN (~154€)
  • BMH-02 (magnetic holder) - 35PLN (~8€)
So this prices seems to be slightly lower than in Welectron. This are list prices, retail prices may be even lower.
Both product are not available yet.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #188 on: December 29, 2020, 06:19:03 am »
Shipping around Dec 31st. That leaves very little time to get here, me to check things before I leave on the 8th Jan. But I should have them in hand before I leave at least.
Can probably take pre-orders in anticipation and then Suse my logistics person can ship them while I'm away.
 
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Offline rernexy

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #189 on: December 29, 2020, 06:22:58 am »
.....
Can probably take pre-orders in anticipation...
Right now ?!!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #190 on: December 29, 2020, 11:10:45 am »
Now shipping tomorrow, partial delivery though, supply issues.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #191 on: December 30, 2020, 10:13:27 am »
Cutting it fine, I'm away on the 8th
BTW, no more import custom delays and double handling now that I use my DHL account for all imports, way better.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 10:17:16 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #192 on: December 30, 2020, 11:14:46 am »
Any idea on which leads are going to be supplied with these meters ?   :-DMM

And will a case, crocodile clips or magnetic hanger also be available ?   :-DMM

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #193 on: December 30, 2020, 12:01:27 pm »
Any idea on which leads are going to be supplied with these meters ?   :-DMM
And will a case, crocodile clips or magnetic hanger also be available ?   :-DMM

The Brymen silicone leads as per BM235.
No plans for the accesories at this stage.
 

Offline pinback

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #194 on: December 30, 2020, 05:49:03 pm »
Dave, I have two of your earlier DMMs, and enjoy using them. Do you think you'll qualify a capacitance/ESR meter at some point? Its another piece of kit that SME review would make me feel more confident in purchasing.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #195 on: December 31, 2020, 04:28:03 am »
Dave, I have two of your earlier DMMs, and enjoy using them. Do you think you'll qualify a capacitance/ESR meter at some point? Its another piece of kit that SME review would make me feel more confident in purchasing.

No major plans in that area.
If anyone knows of any decent test gear that isn't being marketing or distributed well, let me know though. I do want to expand the product portfolio.
 

Offline symp

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #196 on: January 04, 2021, 03:24:48 am »
Soooo, any chance of putting in a pre-order? Also, is there a rough ETA for more 121GW stock?

Cheers
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #197 on: January 05, 2021, 01:26:02 am »
They arrived!



I guess they are version 5, they old prototype shows 1

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #198 on: January 05, 2021, 02:05:51 am »
Looks like you have all the latest updates.  Five was the last firmware version I tested.   We covered a lot of ground in the last few months. I certainly didn't treat it with kid gloves during that time.    Take out for a spin and let us know what you think of it. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #199 on: January 05, 2021, 02:06:50 am »
They arrived!

Do these meters come with bullshit or no-bullshit packaging ?   ???
 

Offline bc888

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #200 on: January 05, 2021, 02:24:21 am »
They arrived!

Do these meters come with bullshit or no-bullshit packaging ?   ???

Muttly, you need to put up a pic or few will get the joke unless they bought Daves earlier home run Evblog BM235. It was reminicent of the old generic packaging in the US where black text on a white package announced what was inside. Example: BEER on a 12 pack of beer. (That was most of it). I would have been an  early adopter but son-in-law to be got a used (but well within spec) Fluke 189 II with a link to the capacitor issue on Eevblog instead.

Now I can wait till it shakes out and get Daves Gen 2 789. Have a good road trip Dave, and Joe Smith, thank you for some great reads/watches. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 02:31:27 am by bc888 »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #201 on: January 05, 2021, 03:07:36 am »
Looks like you have all the latest updates.  Five was the last firmware version I tested.   We covered a lot of ground in the last few months. I certainly didn't treat it with kid gloves during that time.    Take out for a spin and let us know what you think of it.

Thanks.
Don't have time unfortunately. Will barely to able to get this listed and ready for shipment before I leave on holidays in a few days. So many people will be using the latest version before me...
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #202 on: January 05, 2021, 03:08:25 am »
They arrived!
Do these meters come with bullshit or no-bullshit packaging ?   ???

No bullshit!

 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2021, 03:34:16 am »
I think I should have licenced that graphic rather than giving it away.  (Though Dave did send me an unexpected - and good value - consideration for it, back when first created.)

Nice to see it still lives on, though.   :-+
 
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Offline symp

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2021, 06:10:17 am »
Ordered....hopefully it's even better than the BM235 has been

Any ETA for 121GW stock?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #205 on: January 05, 2021, 06:52:01 am »
Any ETA for 121GW stock?

No exact date. Likely March.
 
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Offline fabrizio_fabrice

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #206 on: January 05, 2021, 07:00:20 pm »
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

...and let them leak.

The real question should be "Does it work with Eneloops"?

Good point. I am moving all to rechargeable batteries , no 'Eneloop' means for me  'pass by /  not to  buy'

Mi-MH is not the only rechargeable chemistry. Not buying something because it doesn't work with Eneloops is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Ni-Zn have a nominal cell voltage of 1.6, though are 1.85-1.9 when freshly charged. I use them in my Fluke 289 with no ill effects.

Li-ion are an alternative also; you can get 1.5V AA cells, which have built in chargers, running of usb, or you can get AA sized cells with the usual 3.7V and use dummy AA's to match the voltage you want.

Personally I prefer the Ni-Zn as they are a variation on the existing and well understood nickel secondary cell. I'm still wary of using Li-ion in something I couldn't/wouldn't be happy to throw out of the window if things went wrong.

Yes, that's reasonable if you have only one device to power, don't mind the customization, or the need to keep another battery type on hand. 

But I'm with MiroS - I use Eneloops in significant numbers, kinds and types of devices where any other single approach would not be practical.  For me, the solution is to have a decent NiMH charger (thanks, HKJ  :-+  http://www.lygte-info.dk) and keep 1 more set of Eneloops than needed on-hand, fully-charged. 

I'm a fan of '60s Telefunken portables and use adapters to convert them from 5 D-cells to AA Eneloops.  Used about an hour a day in a home environment [not full-blast - they'll output 2.5W**], they last ~ 2 mo on a charge.  And it makes the radio so much lighter to carry around.

So yes, I was glad to see I can also use NiMH in this meter, and won't mind a bit if it won't run down to the dead battery limit.  Besides, more recharge cycles that way, too.

[**You know, I should try 'full blast' sometime; they'll probably sound pretty good since Eneloops won't droop under the current load.]
 

Online Andrew McNamara

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #207 on: January 06, 2021, 01:18:56 am »
If anyone knows of any decent test gear that isn't being marketing or distributed well, let me know though. I do want to expand the product portfolio.

What about a clamp meter like the BM065? Not as cheap as the UT210E, but I'd prefer the Brymen.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #208 on: January 06, 2021, 04:17:09 am »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!  It doesn't seem like a bad price.  The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #209 on: January 06, 2021, 04:31:12 am »
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

...and let them leak.

The real question should be "Does it work with Eneloops"?

Good point. I am moving all to rechargeable batteries , no 'Eneloop' means for me  'pass by /  not to  buy'

Mi-MH is not the only rechargeable chemistry. Not buying something because it doesn't work with Eneloops is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Ni-Zn have a nominal cell voltage of 1.6, though are 1.85-1.9 when freshly charged. I use them in my Fluke 289 with no ill effects.

Li-ion are an alternative also; you can get 1.5V AA cells, which have built in chargers, running of usb, or you can get AA sized cells with the usual 3.7V and use dummy AA's to match the voltage you want.

Personally I prefer the Ni-Zn as they are a variation on the existing and well understood nickel secondary cell. I'm still wary of using Li-ion in something I couldn't/wouldn't be happy to throw out of the window if things went wrong.

Yes, that's reasonable if you have only one device to power, don't mind the customization, or the need to keep another battery type on hand. 

But I'm with MiroS - I use Eneloops in significant numbers, kinds and types of devices where any other single approach would not be practical.  For me, the solution is to have a decent NiMH charger (thanks, HKJ  :-+  http://www.lygte-info.dk) and keep 1 more set of Eneloops than needed on-hand, fully-charged. 

I'm a fan of '60s Telefunken portables and use adapters to convert them from 5 D-cells to AA Eneloops.  Used about an hour a day in a home environment [not full-blast - they'll output 2.5W**], they last ~ 2 mo on a charge.  And it makes the radio so much lighter to carry around.

So yes, I was glad to see I can also use NiMH in this meter, and won't mind a bit if it won't run down to the dead battery limit.  Besides, more recharge cycles that way, too.

[**You know, I should try 'full blast' sometime; they'll probably sound pretty good since Eneloops won't droop under the current load.]

Ni-Zn are no more expensive than Ni-MH, they just have a lower mAH capacity, though obviously this is offset somewhat by the higher nominal cell voltage. Overall they're probably around 10% lower in terms of mWH.
I use them in my Fluke 289 with no modifications, YMMV, you just have to suck it and see.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #210 on: January 06, 2021, 04:45:55 am »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!

I've been saying for a year now that I was going to offer a $150 class meter, why the surprise?
But of course that doesn't include shipping, and price will vary depending on where you get it from (Simon's Electronics, Welectron, Amazon (which is me))
Might have to reevaluate the BM235 price, but it is still significantly cheaper, and many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter.

Quote
The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.

Yes, it blows the Flukes out of the water, including of course the 70 series it's obviously designed to compete with in look'n'feel.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 04:52:07 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline LarryS

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #211 on: January 06, 2021, 04:33:18 pm »
Dave does not have a reply banner on his posts.  Thus, I could not "wish' he did have a LCR-ESR meter in his portfolio.

As to a LCR - ESR meter, I have a DER EE DE-5000 for which I bought BK Precision TL8KC1 Kelvin leads as the leads that come with the meter are a piece of s**t.  There is a gentleman on the this blog who has remarkable skills with mechanical things and made his own Kelvin leads for the meter.  I do not have either the tools no the skill to make what he did - he made a video of is effort.  In any event, the TL8KC1 leads work very well though I'm sure not as near perfect as the gentleman in question.

I wish the 'meter tester gentleman' (joesmith)would do a test of the various LCR-ESR meters out there.

Again to the 'meter tester gentleman', did you make the box that seemingly has an infinite number of test terminals to do his testing?

Thank you,         larry
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #212 on: January 06, 2021, 05:39:36 pm »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!

I've been saying for a year now that I was going to offer a $150 class meter, why the surprise?
But of course that doesn't include shipping, and price will vary depending on where you get it from (Simon's Electronics, Welectron, Amazon (which is me))
Might have to reevaluate the BM235 price, but it is still significantly cheaper, and many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter.
As I mentioned during the last video,  I'm just surprised that the BM235's price did not drop.   No doubt the 235 is very robust but outside of using it for some basic electrical work, I wouldn't have a use for it.  With only a $25 spread, I would hands down buy the 786. 

Quote
The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.

Yes, it blows the Flukes out of the water, including of course the 70 series it's obviously designed to compete with in look'n'feel.

Outside of the vintage Fluke 189 and 97, I don't use any of their other products.  Not that they are over priced and they are certainly one of the most robust brands I have looked at, they just don't offer products that are a good fit feature wise for me.  If I were a technician or electrical worker, it would be a totally different story.   The 78x series fills a void IMO for people wanting a robust well built meter with some basic features for electronics but can't afford $200+.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #213 on: January 06, 2021, 05:49:12 pm »
...
I wish the 'meter tester gentleman' (joesmith)would do a test of the various LCR-ESR meters out there.

Again to the 'meter tester gentleman', did you make the box that seemingly has an infinite number of test terminals to do his testing?
...

I'll leave the scopes, signal generators, power supplies and LCR meters to the other reviewers.  Outside of reading the manual, I'm not sure what I would have to offer for an LCR meter.   It's not a device I am expecting someone is damaging with normal use. 

Yes, that box is something I put together to partially determine if a meter has been damaged during my testing.   It contains an APEX reference and several Caddock SVD2  parts.  Not good enough for a standard but more than good enough to see if a meter is starting to deviate.  It's changed over time to increase the number of tests I can quickly rifle through. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #214 on: January 06, 2021, 05:53:23 pm »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!

I've been saying for a year now that I was going to offer a $150 class meter, why the surprise?
But of course that doesn't include shipping, and price will vary depending on where you get it from (Simon's Electronics, Welectron, Amazon (which is me))
Might have to reevaluate the BM235 price, but it is still significantly cheaper, and many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter.
As I mentioned during the last video,  I'm just surprised that the BM235's price did not drop.   No doubt the 235 is very robust but outside of using it for some basic electrical work, I wouldn't have a use for it.  With only a $25 spread, I would hands down buy the 786. 

Quote
The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.

Yes, it blows the Flukes out of the water, including of course the 70 series it's obviously designed to compete with in look'n'feel.

Outside of the vintage Fluke 189 and 97, I don't use any of their other products.  Not that they are over priced and they are certainly one of the most robust brands I have looked at, they just don't offer products that are a good fit feature wise for me.  If I were a technician or electrical worker, it would be a totally different story.   The 78x series fills a void IMO for people wanting a robust well built meter with some basic features for electronics but can't afford $200+.   

Well said. And now it has all the features Fluke users complained about  as "must haves": diode test mode, auto hold, and some other details..
 

Offline fabrizio_fabrice

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #215 on: January 06, 2021, 11:05:38 pm »
Quote
Ni-Zn are no more expensive than Ni-MH, they just have a lower mAH capacity, though obviously this is offset somewhat by the higher nominal cell voltage. Overall they're probably around 10% lower in terms of mWH.
I appreciate you mentioning these, I wasn't familiar with them.  I got suspicious when I saw the change in rating method.  HKJ wrote they specify in Wh, "probably to hide the fact that they has less capacity than NiMH batteries".

What is the advantage of higher cell voltage if used in a device like the BM786, if it down-regulates to 3.5 v?  If they have less total capacity, the higher voltage wouldn't translate into better run-time. 

OTOH, if you have drones, their better energy density would be a real help!

There's a discrepancy between Wikipedia: "they can be discharged to almost 100%, and recharged without problems"  vs. HKJ's statement that they have a rather short lifetime because "they are over discharged when used as replacement for alkaline or NiMH cells."  What's the reality?   Over-discharging is particularly likely if they're down to near-zero by the time the device begins to noticeably misbehave.   

I agree about Li-I,but it's not about throwing them away.  It's about my home going up in flame. I want to buy from a reputable company with lots to lose.  Even so, Samsung had to get stung, first, didn't they?

I don't know how to fairly compare costs. Can you recommend a brand that has established a reputation for reliability and durability that's comparable to Eneloops?
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #216 on: January 06, 2021, 11:18:44 pm »
What is the advantage of higher cell voltage if used in a device like the BM786, if it down-regulates to 3.5 v?  If they have less total capacity, the higher voltage wouldn't translate into better run-time. 

There is very little capacity in the higher terminal voltage batteries at the high voltage point, the voltage drops pretty quickly under load.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #217 on: January 06, 2021, 11:23:28 pm »
Dave does not have a reply banner on his posts.  Thus, I could not "wish' he did have a LCR-ESR meter in his portfolio.

I'd like one, but it's hard find something good without an already well established distribution chain and low prices.
Brymen works because they have pretty horrible marketing and distribution in a lot fo the world, and the margins are good, so they are winners for me.
If anyone knows of a suitable one on the market please let me know, I do want to expand my product portfolio.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #218 on: January 06, 2021, 11:29:11 pm »
As I mentioned during the last video,  I'm just surprised that the BM235's price did not drop.   No doubt the 235 is very robust but outside of using it for some basic electrical work, I wouldn't have a use for it.  With only a $25 spread, I would hands down buy the 786.

Sure but everyones needs are different.
When I list the BM786 on amazon I'll see if the BM235 sales drop, if they do then I'll adjust the price. I sell a ton of BM235 on amazon. Could actually take the BM786 substantial time to build up the same search ranking.

Quote
The 78x series fills a void IMO for people wanting a robust well built meter with some basic features for electronics but can't afford $200+.   

Yep, that's what I thought too when they first proposed it. I'm fairly confident it'll be a winner. Have just ordered another batch.
FYI Brymen pitched me the BM836/839 and sent me samples but I turned those down as they didn't have the same value proposition, so I waited an extra year for the BM786
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 11:39:34 pm by EEVblog »
 
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Offline BU508A

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #219 on: January 06, 2021, 11:39:00 pm »
If anyone knows of any decent test gear that isn't being marketing or distributed well, let me know though. I do want to expand the product portfolio.

Dave, I've forwarded your request to the TEA thread. Maybe those folks have some ideas ...  ;D  ;D

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3403880/#msg3403880
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #220 on: January 07, 2021, 12:05:04 am »
Dave does not have a reply banner on his posts.  Thus, I could not "wish' he did have a LCR-ESR meter in his portfolio.

I'd like one, but it's hard find something good without an already well established distribution chain and low prices.
Brymen works because they have pretty horrible marketing and distribution in a lot fo the world, and the margins are good, so they are winners for me.
If anyone knows of a suitable one on the market please let me know, I do want to expand my product portfolio.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but how about the DER EE DE-5000 LCR meter? If one wants to buy one new, one has to order it in Japan, e.g. via ebay sellers from there. There is nearly no marketing for them e.g. in Europe.

Just as an idea, probably a stupid one.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #221 on: January 07, 2021, 12:30:26 am »
What is the advantage of higher cell voltage if used in a device like the BM786, if it down-regulates to 3.5 v?  If they have less total capacity, the higher voltage wouldn't translate into better run-time. 

There is very little capacity in the higher terminal voltage batteries at the high voltage point, the voltage drops pretty quickly under load.
Does the meter benefit in any way from a higher cell voltage? ???
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #222 on: January 07, 2021, 12:31:32 am »
many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter

With aging eyesight I find I need a magnifier to use small format meters like the 235. I find big meters like the 869 much more comfortable to use  :P
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #223 on: January 07, 2021, 12:34:38 am »
Does the meter benefit in any way from a higher cell voltage? ???

It depends. You do have to be a little bit careful though. The NiZn chemistry starts out at 1.8 V or higher when freshly charged and some devices may not work properly at such a high voltage.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #224 on: January 07, 2021, 02:24:33 am »
many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter
With aging eyesight I find I need a magnifier to use small format meters like the 235. I find big meters like the 869 much more comfortable to use  :P

Err, the BM235 has the same size display as the 869.
 

Offline J-R

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #225 on: January 07, 2021, 05:00:47 am »
Actually, the digits on the BM235 are larger than the BM869!
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #226 on: January 07, 2021, 06:01:32 am »
Err, the BM235 has the same size display as the 869.

That's true. It was actually the labels around the rotary switch of the 121GW that I found quite small, and I misremembered which meter I was thinking of.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #227 on: January 07, 2021, 06:19:27 am »
Does the meter benefit in any way from a higher cell voltage? ???

It depends. You do have to be a little bit careful though. The NiZn chemistry starts out at 1.8 V or higher when freshly charged and some devices may not work properly at such a high voltage.

I mentioned the Ni-Zn chemistry purely for when Ni-MH don't work due to low voltage. As Dave has already stated the 786 works fine with Ni-MH so there would be no advantage.

I run my 289 on Ni-Zn purely because I wanted to see if it would. I'm confident it would work as well with Ni-MH, preferably an LSD type like Eneloop etc.

Personally I like the Hobby King Turnigy brand for the simple reason they are pretty cheap, and reliable in terms of quality. I have found their Ni-MH LSD AA cells to be above rated capacity, haven't measured the Ni-Zn yet.

I would guess most modern battery devices to be designed with one eye on the Ni-MH cell voltage, so Ni-Zn is pretty niche really, mostly useful for older devices that don't like the low nominal Ni-MH/Cd cell voltage.
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Offline cschun86

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #228 on: January 07, 2021, 11:13:52 am »
Is it sold out? Eevblog store stated sold out. Couldn't find it on Amazon as well.
Can only find it on welectron at the moment.

Any place else I can purchase it? I don't really want to get it shipped from UK/Euro all the way to New Zealand.
Thanks.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #229 on: January 07, 2021, 11:54:13 am »
Is it sold out? Eevblog store stated sold out. Couldn't find it on Amazon as well.
Can only find it on welectron at the moment.
Any place else I can purchase it? I don't really want to get it shipped from UK/Euro all the way to New Zealand.
Thanks.

Sorry, had to shut down my store for while, I'm on holidays. No stock sent to amazon yet. Simons Electronics will have some shortly but he's in the UK.
 

Offline NuclearMusket

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #230 on: January 07, 2021, 10:46:51 pm »
Thanks Dave, great meter. Just got my mine in today via DHL.
No trouble with it at all yet.
It does seem to be a quite a bit shorter than it appeared on camera, but maybe I'm just used to the oversized American brands...  :-DD
 
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Offline jknightandkarr

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #231 on: January 09, 2021, 05:28:14 am »
Sorry, had to shut down my store for while, I'm on holidays. No stock sent to amazon yet. Simons Electronics will have some shortly but he's in the UK.
That explains things, when might the store be available for orders again?  I really have been wanting a 121gw dmm for a good while and finally have the cash for it.  I got one decent one, I think, but really want a nice one I can trust.  In school for electronics engineering and do hobby stuff as well.  Always enjoy watching your channel!

Joe
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #232 on: January 09, 2021, 09:58:42 am »
Thanks Dave, great meter. Just got my mine in today via DHL.
No trouble with it at all yet.
It does seem to be a quite a bit shorter than it appeared on camera, but maybe I'm just used to the oversized American brands...  :-DD

Australia post at it's finest....I'm 400km from Dave in the same state and don't expect it until Monday.  :-DD

Edit: arrived safely, solid meter, auto hold is nice, think I'll miss is the LoZ mode compared to the 237 though, might get the 789 next time. I should of checked my old email, had the pre public link and a coupon in there, could of saved $15 for lunch! Haha
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 02:32:14 am by symp »
 

Offline bibz

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #233 on: January 11, 2021, 12:05:29 pm »
Got mine today, nice display and ohms beepy is also great. First upgrade from a jaycar/chinesey meter and I feel this is the perfect price point for me, so thanks Dave! Cant wait to poke some stuff with it
 
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Offline Roger Need

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #234 on: January 15, 2021, 08:58:03 pm »
I ordered my Brymen 786 on January 5 and it was shipped by DHL to Canada the next day.  Shipping was $30 Cdn. ($24 USD) for express delivery.  The package arrived 8 days later after a payment of $42 Cdn. ($31 USD) to DHL for Cdn. taxes, duties and the processing fee.  Everything was in great shape. 

I thought readers might want to know what comes in the "No BS Box" so I took some pictures of the meter and the accessories.  Batteries are not included but I never like the unknown brand that usually comes with Asian products.  It was nice to see that banana plug adapters come with the test leads and that standard alligator clips slide on easily.

I have been putting the meter through quite a few tests.  The RMS accuracy with different waveforms (sine, triangle, square wave etc.) and DC offsets is very good.   The Amps current range with 50,000 counts means I only have to use the ma. range, with the higher burden voltage, if I really need more than 3 digits.  The only drawback I have seen is that it does not have enough range to measure capacitors under 100 pF but my DE-5000 is used for that anyway.

 
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Offline Roger Need

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #235 on: January 15, 2021, 09:02:10 pm »
Here is a photo with the battery holder removed.  Are the pins shown for flashing firmware??

Roger
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #236 on: January 16, 2021, 07:40:48 am »
Here is a photo with the battery holder removed.  Are the pins shown for flashing firmware??

I believe they are, but Brymen don't want any (including me) to have the programmer or the details.
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #237 on: January 16, 2021, 07:43:47 am »
It does seem to be a quite a bit shorter than it appeared on camera, but maybe I'm just used to the oversized American brands...  :-DD

I think I posted a photo of it compared to some other meters some time back, will try and find it again.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 07:45:41 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline NY2KW

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #238 on: January 16, 2021, 02:49:47 pm »
How fast is the Autorange?
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #239 on: January 16, 2021, 04:52:40 pm »
Here is a photo with the battery holder removed.  Are the pins shown for flashing firmware??

Roger

I was guessing that connector allowed them to perform the alignment semi-automatically.  There appears to be two other unpopulated connectors which I was guessing were for development and not needed once they got into production.   During my evaluation, any changes the to firmware required that I change ICs.   

Hopefully the majority of the problems have now been corrected and there will be little need for additional firmware changes. 

Just a quick check, the unpopulated 4-pin connector with the two pairs of common pins is on the back side of U20 and ground, used to power the meter during development or provide power to some peripheral. 

The other unpopulated connector is not in parallel with the one you asked about.   It's possible that these two unpopulated connectors were both intended to control an add-on peripheral rather than development.  The LCD is far enough away that there is certainly room to add something but with the lack of mounting holes in this area, my guess is they are both for development.   Probing the two connectors,  I didn't see anything while trying different modes.   
« Last Edit: January 16, 2021, 06:07:50 pm by joeqsmith »
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Offline Roger Need

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #240 on: January 16, 2021, 07:02:04 pm »
How fast is the Autorange?

I suggest you take a look at joeqsmith's excellent Youtube videos on the latest firmware with autoranging.



Roger
 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #241 on: January 16, 2021, 07:33:00 pm »
Here is a photo with the battery holder removed.  Are the pins shown for flashing firmware??

Roger

I was guessing that connector allowed them to perform the alignment semi-automatically.  There appears to be two other unpopulated connectors which I was guessing were for development and not needed once they got into production.   During my evaluation, any changes the to firmware required that I change ICs.   
Despite they asked you to switch ICs, this may be due simply to the fact the devices have their JTAG port cut off to protect the Flash contents against prying eyes. This may still be used for flash programming (and perhaps some basic testing) during production.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #242 on: January 16, 2021, 08:19:00 pm »
Here is a photo with the battery holder removed.  Are the pins shown for flashing firmware??

Roger

I was guessing that connector allowed them to perform the alignment semi-automatically.  There appears to be two other unpopulated connectors which I was guessing were for development and not needed once they got into production.   During my evaluation, any changes the to firmware required that I change ICs.   
Despite they asked you to switch ICs, this may be due simply to the fact the devices have their JTAG port cut off to protect the Flash contents against prying eyes. This may still be used for flash programming (and perhaps some basic testing) during production.

It's possible.  I didn't ask.  I did however offer to program them to avoid the shipping times and speed up our progress.   We may have saved a few weeks.  Then again, getting everything setup and working may have been more trouble than it was worth.  Not a big deal one way or the other.   It's not the 121GW.  While Dave's UEI meter still has some firmware problems noted with the prototype back in 2017,  the Brymen BM786 even though it's a brand new product, is much more mature (not to mention the quality of the parts and design).   The UEI meter needed that crutch.  I don't see that being the case with most high quality meters. 

My tests certainly are not the end all of tests but I am interested to see what problems early buyers find.  It may point to the need to improve or add to my own tests. 
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #243 on: January 16, 2021, 08:43:11 pm »
While Dave's UEI meter still has some firmware problems noted with the prototype back in 2017,  the Brymen BM786 even though it's a brand new product, is much more mature (not to mention the quality of the parts and design).   The UEI meter needed that crutch.  I don't see that being the case with most high quality meters. 
UEI's core business is not on multimeters, but Brymen's is. For them it is make it or break it. For UEI, it is another department.

IIRC, shortly before the release of the 121GW UEI had discontinued their entire range of DMMs. Nowadays I see four models, all 4000/6000 counts clearly for industrial markets.
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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #244 on: January 16, 2021, 11:51:21 pm »
While Dave's UEI meter still has some firmware problems noted with the prototype back in 2017,  the Brymen BM786 even though it's a brand new product, is much more mature (not to mention the quality of the parts and design).   The UEI meter needed that crutch.  I don't see that being the case with most high quality meters. 
UEI's core business is not on multimeters, but Brymen's is. For them it is make it or break it. For UEI, it is another department.

IIRC, shortly before the release of the 121GW UEI had discontinued their entire range of DMMs. Nowadays I see four models, all 4000/6000 counts clearly for industrial markets.
I had tried to buy a few new UEI meters once Dave announced they were going to produce his meter.  They were already out of the business by that time which is why you never saw me run one. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #245 on: January 17, 2021, 01:24:05 am »
Here is a photo with the battery holder removed.  Are the pins shown for flashing firmware??

Roger

I was guessing that connector allowed them to perform the alignment semi-automatically.  There appears to be two other unpopulated connectors which I was guessing were for development and not needed once they got into production.   During my evaluation, any changes the to firmware required that I change ICs.   

I have been told that "Firmware update will need Custom-made Programmer."
And I think way back they inidcated it was a re-programmable part as opposed to previous models that use OTP processors.

As for firmware changes, the BM235 had several firmware changes over 3-4 years as users slowly found obscure issues.
Just look at the ohm ranging issue with the BM867 recently, a once previously solidly tested meter.
So I'd be surprised if we don't see some firmware changes over the next few years.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #246 on: January 17, 2021, 01:27:58 am »
While Dave's UEI meter still has some firmware problems noted with the prototype back in 2017,  the Brymen BM786 even though it's a brand new product, is much more mature (not to mention the quality of the parts and design).   The UEI meter needed that crutch.  I don't see that being the case with most high quality meters. 
UEI's core business is not on multimeters, but Brymen's is. For them it is make it or break it. For UEI, it is another department.

IIRC, shortly before the release of the 121GW UEI had discontinued their entire range of DMMs. Nowadays I see four models, all 4000/6000 counts clearly for industrial markets.
I had tried to buy a few new UEI meters once Dave announced they were going to produce his meter.  They were already out of the business by that time which is why you never saw me run one.

Actually not true. They have been selling into the Chinese market under the Kane brand.
http://www.kanetest.com.cn/category.php?id=33
And there is a new model coming our in that 500 series, it's an upgraded design based on the 121GW design, but new much bigger case for a tripple display much like the original concep 121GW proposed right at the start, and I believe new firmware.
I have partly shown this in a previous video, it's probably not far from release.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #247 on: January 17, 2021, 03:13:52 am »
Here is a photo with the battery holder removed.  Are the pins shown for flashing firmware??

Roger

I was guessing that connector allowed them to perform the alignment semi-automatically.  There appears to be two other unpopulated connectors which I was guessing were for development and not needed once they got into production.   During my evaluation, any changes the to firmware required that I change ICs.   

I have been told that "Firmware update will need Custom-made Programmer."
And I think way back they inidcated it was a re-programmable part as opposed to previous models that use OTP processors.

As for firmware changes, the BM235 had several firmware changes over 3-4 years as users slowly found obscure issues.
Just look at the ohm ranging issue with the BM867 recently, a once previously solidly tested meter.
So I'd be surprised if we don't see some firmware changes over the next few years.

Interesting about the programmer.  I have not looked into it beyond what I posted today. 

I bought the BM235 late and missed out on all the fun Scott was having with it finding early problems.  Outside of the cut away area around the connector for added clearance, the one I have seems fine for the most part.  I mentioned the autorange problem with it.   The BM869s has a similar problem but it's not anything that has hindered me. 

I've up'ed my game since looking at the very first handheld, even since looking at the BM235.   The benefit to the BM786 is that we find more problems early on and we have a company who not only wants to correct them but is also capable of doing so. 

After experiencing the 121GW, I have adopted the old adage of fool me once ....   I don't care if it's sold under UEI, Kane or Finest. 
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Offline ian.ameline

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #248 on: January 17, 2021, 09:25:41 pm »
Are the calibration procedures documented for this meter?
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #249 on: January 17, 2021, 10:58:34 pm »
Are the calibration procedures documented for this meter?
I assume you are asking about how to align the meter.   I'm sure Brymen has these procedures documented along with everything else about the design.   It's not available to the general public that I am aware of.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 01:29:18 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 

Online Andrew McNamara

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #250 on: January 17, 2021, 11:21:05 pm »
Dave - the soft case seems to have disappeared from the store - are we going to see that return (particularly one suited to the larger BM786)?
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #251 on: January 18, 2021, 09:20:55 pm »
Are the calibration procedures documented for this meter?

No they aren't.
They usually only release this to trusted major dealers.
 

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #252 on: January 18, 2021, 09:21:44 pm »
Dave - the soft case seems to have disappeared from the store - are we going to see that return (particularly one suited to the larger BM786)?

I don't particually want to carry multiple cases, so I might look into if it's possible to get one that suits all meters.