Author Topic: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter  (Read 56886 times)

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Offline bc888

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #200 on: January 05, 2021, 02:24:21 am »
They arrived!

Do these meters come with bullshit or no-bullshit packaging ?   ???

Muttly, you need to put up a pic or few will get the joke unless they bought Daves earlier home run Evblog BM235. It was reminicent of the old generic packaging in the US where black text on a white package announced what was inside. Example: BEER on a 12 pack of beer. (That was most of it). I would have been an  early adopter but son-in-law to be got a used (but well within spec) Fluke 189 II with a link to the capacitor issue on Eevblog instead.

Now I can wait till it shakes out and get Daves Gen 2 789. Have a good road trip Dave, and Joe Smith, thank you for some great reads/watches. 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2021, 02:31:27 am by bc888 »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #201 on: January 05, 2021, 03:07:36 am »
Looks like you have all the latest updates.  Five was the last firmware version I tested.   We covered a lot of ground in the last few months. I certainly didn't treat it with kid gloves during that time.    Take out for a spin and let us know what you think of it.

Thanks.
Don't have time unfortunately. Will barely to able to get this listed and ready for shipment before I leave on holidays in a few days. So many people will be using the latest version before me...
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #202 on: January 05, 2021, 03:08:25 am »
They arrived!
Do these meters come with bullshit or no-bullshit packaging ?   ???

No bullshit!

 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2021, 03:34:16 am »
I think I should have licenced that graphic rather than giving it away.  (Though Dave did send me an unexpected - and good value - consideration for it, back when first created.)

Nice to see it still lives on, though.   :-+
 
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Offline symp

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2021, 06:10:17 am »
Ordered....hopefully it's even better than the BM235 has been

Any ETA for 121GW stock?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #205 on: January 05, 2021, 06:52:01 am »
Any ETA for 121GW stock?

No exact date. Likely March.
 
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Offline fabrizio_fabrice

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #206 on: January 05, 2021, 07:00:20 pm »
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

...and let them leak.

The real question should be "Does it work with Eneloops"?

Good point. I am moving all to rechargeable batteries , no 'Eneloop' means for me  'pass by /  not to  buy'

Mi-MH is not the only rechargeable chemistry. Not buying something because it doesn't work with Eneloops is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Ni-Zn have a nominal cell voltage of 1.6, though are 1.85-1.9 when freshly charged. I use them in my Fluke 289 with no ill effects.

Li-ion are an alternative also; you can get 1.5V AA cells, which have built in chargers, running of usb, or you can get AA sized cells with the usual 3.7V and use dummy AA's to match the voltage you want.

Personally I prefer the Ni-Zn as they are a variation on the existing and well understood nickel secondary cell. I'm still wary of using Li-ion in something I couldn't/wouldn't be happy to throw out of the window if things went wrong.

Yes, that's reasonable if you have only one device to power, don't mind the customization, or the need to keep another battery type on hand. 

But I'm with MiroS - I use Eneloops in significant numbers, kinds and types of devices where any other single approach would not be practical.  For me, the solution is to have a decent NiMH charger (thanks, HKJ  :-+  http://www.lygte-info.dk) and keep 1 more set of Eneloops than needed on-hand, fully-charged. 

I'm a fan of '60s Telefunken portables and use adapters to convert them from 5 D-cells to AA Eneloops.  Used about an hour a day in a home environment [not full-blast - they'll output 2.5W**], they last ~ 2 mo on a charge.  And it makes the radio so much lighter to carry around.

So yes, I was glad to see I can also use NiMH in this meter, and won't mind a bit if it won't run down to the dead battery limit.  Besides, more recharge cycles that way, too.

[**You know, I should try 'full blast' sometime; they'll probably sound pretty good since Eneloops won't droop under the current load.]
 

Offline Andrew McNamara

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #207 on: January 06, 2021, 01:18:56 am »
If anyone knows of any decent test gear that isn't being marketing or distributed well, let me know though. I do want to expand the product portfolio.

What about a clamp meter like the BM065? Not as cheap as the UT210E, but I'd prefer the Brymen.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #208 on: January 06, 2021, 04:17:09 am »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!  It doesn't seem like a bad price.  The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #209 on: January 06, 2021, 04:31:12 am »
I guess we buy a pack of alkaline then.

...and let them leak.

The real question should be "Does it work with Eneloops"?

Good point. I am moving all to rechargeable batteries , no 'Eneloop' means for me  'pass by /  not to  buy'

Mi-MH is not the only rechargeable chemistry. Not buying something because it doesn't work with Eneloops is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Ni-Zn have a nominal cell voltage of 1.6, though are 1.85-1.9 when freshly charged. I use them in my Fluke 289 with no ill effects.

Li-ion are an alternative also; you can get 1.5V AA cells, which have built in chargers, running of usb, or you can get AA sized cells with the usual 3.7V and use dummy AA's to match the voltage you want.

Personally I prefer the Ni-Zn as they are a variation on the existing and well understood nickel secondary cell. I'm still wary of using Li-ion in something I couldn't/wouldn't be happy to throw out of the window if things went wrong.

Yes, that's reasonable if you have only one device to power, don't mind the customization, or the need to keep another battery type on hand. 

But I'm with MiroS - I use Eneloops in significant numbers, kinds and types of devices where any other single approach would not be practical.  For me, the solution is to have a decent NiMH charger (thanks, HKJ  :-+  http://www.lygte-info.dk) and keep 1 more set of Eneloops than needed on-hand, fully-charged. 

I'm a fan of '60s Telefunken portables and use adapters to convert them from 5 D-cells to AA Eneloops.  Used about an hour a day in a home environment [not full-blast - they'll output 2.5W**], they last ~ 2 mo on a charge.  And it makes the radio so much lighter to carry around.

So yes, I was glad to see I can also use NiMH in this meter, and won't mind a bit if it won't run down to the dead battery limit.  Besides, more recharge cycles that way, too.

[**You know, I should try 'full blast' sometime; they'll probably sound pretty good since Eneloops won't droop under the current load.]

Ni-Zn are no more expensive than Ni-MH, they just have a lower mAH capacity, though obviously this is offset somewhat by the higher nominal cell voltage. Overall they're probably around 10% lower in terms of mWH.
I use them in my Fluke 289 with no modifications, YMMV, you just have to suck it and see.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #210 on: January 06, 2021, 04:45:55 am »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!

I've been saying for a year now that I was going to offer a $150 class meter, why the surprise?
But of course that doesn't include shipping, and price will vary depending on where you get it from (Simon's Electronics, Welectron, Amazon (which is me))
Might have to reevaluate the BM235 price, but it is still significantly cheaper, and many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter.

Quote
The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.

Yes, it blows the Flukes out of the water, including of course the 70 series it's obviously designed to compete with in look'n'feel.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 04:52:07 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline LarryS

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #211 on: January 06, 2021, 04:33:18 pm »
Dave does not have a reply banner on his posts.  Thus, I could not "wish' he did have a LCR-ESR meter in his portfolio.

As to a LCR - ESR meter, I have a DER EE DE-5000 for which I bought BK Precision TL8KC1 Kelvin leads as the leads that come with the meter are a piece of s**t.  There is a gentleman on the this blog who has remarkable skills with mechanical things and made his own Kelvin leads for the meter.  I do not have either the tools no the skill to make what he did - he made a video of is effort.  In any event, the TL8KC1 leads work very well though I'm sure not as near perfect as the gentleman in question.

I wish the 'meter tester gentleman' (joesmith)would do a test of the various LCR-ESR meters out there.

Again to the 'meter tester gentleman', did you make the box that seemingly has an infinite number of test terminals to do his testing?

Thank you,         larry
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #212 on: January 06, 2021, 05:39:36 pm »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!

I've been saying for a year now that I was going to offer a $150 class meter, why the surprise?
But of course that doesn't include shipping, and price will vary depending on where you get it from (Simon's Electronics, Welectron, Amazon (which is me))
Might have to reevaluate the BM235 price, but it is still significantly cheaper, and many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter.
As I mentioned during the last video,  I'm just surprised that the BM235's price did not drop.   No doubt the 235 is very robust but outside of using it for some basic electrical work, I wouldn't have a use for it.  With only a $25 spread, I would hands down buy the 786. 

Quote
The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.

Yes, it blows the Flukes out of the water, including of course the 70 series it's obviously designed to compete with in look'n'feel.

Outside of the vintage Fluke 189 and 97, I don't use any of their other products.  Not that they are over priced and they are certainly one of the most robust brands I have looked at, they just don't offer products that are a good fit feature wise for me.  If I were a technician or electrical worker, it would be a totally different story.   The 78x series fills a void IMO for people wanting a robust well built meter with some basic features for electronics but can't afford $200+.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #213 on: January 06, 2021, 05:49:12 pm »
...
I wish the 'meter tester gentleman' (joesmith)would do a test of the various LCR-ESR meters out there.

Again to the 'meter tester gentleman', did you make the box that seemingly has an infinite number of test terminals to do his testing?
...

I'll leave the scopes, signal generators, power supplies and LCR meters to the other reviewers.  Outside of reading the manual, I'm not sure what I would have to offer for an LCR meter.   It's not a device I am expecting someone is damaging with normal use. 

Yes, that box is something I put together to partially determine if a meter has been damaged during my testing.   It contains an APEX reference and several Caddock SVD2  parts.  Not good enough for a standard but more than good enough to see if a meter is starting to deviate.  It's changed over time to increase the number of tests I can quickly rifle through. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
Software, documentation and test reports for the low cost NanoVNA & V2 Plus 4 may be found here:
https://github.com/joeqsmith
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #214 on: January 06, 2021, 05:53:23 pm »
$123 for the 235 and only $150 for this?!

I've been saying for a year now that I was going to offer a $150 class meter, why the surprise?
But of course that doesn't include shipping, and price will vary depending on where you get it from (Simon's Electronics, Welectron, Amazon (which is me))
Might have to reevaluate the BM235 price, but it is still significantly cheaper, and many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter.
As I mentioned during the last video,  I'm just surprised that the BM235's price did not drop.   No doubt the 235 is very robust but outside of using it for some basic electrical work, I wouldn't have a use for it.  With only a $25 spread, I would hands down buy the 786. 

Quote
The Fluke 115 is over $180 and not near as useful.

Yes, it blows the Flukes out of the water, including of course the 70 series it's obviously designed to compete with in look'n'feel.

Outside of the vintage Fluke 189 and 97, I don't use any of their other products.  Not that they are over priced and they are certainly one of the most robust brands I have looked at, they just don't offer products that are a good fit feature wise for me.  If I were a technician or electrical worker, it would be a totally different story.   The 78x series fills a void IMO for people wanting a robust well built meter with some basic features for electronics but can't afford $200+.   

Well said. And now it has all the features Fluke users complained about  as "must haves": diode test mode, auto hold, and some other details..
 

Offline fabrizio_fabrice

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #215 on: January 06, 2021, 11:05:38 pm »
Quote
Ni-Zn are no more expensive than Ni-MH, they just have a lower mAH capacity, though obviously this is offset somewhat by the higher nominal cell voltage. Overall they're probably around 10% lower in terms of mWH.
I appreciate you mentioning these, I wasn't familiar with them.  I got suspicious when I saw the change in rating method.  HKJ wrote they specify in Wh, "probably to hide the fact that they has less capacity than NiMH batteries".

What is the advantage of higher cell voltage if used in a device like the BM786, if it down-regulates to 3.5 v?  If they have less total capacity, the higher voltage wouldn't translate into better run-time. 

OTOH, if you have drones, their better energy density would be a real help!

There's a discrepancy between Wikipedia: "they can be discharged to almost 100%, and recharged without problems"  vs. HKJ's statement that they have a rather short lifetime because "they are over discharged when used as replacement for alkaline or NiMH cells."  What's the reality?   Over-discharging is particularly likely if they're down to near-zero by the time the device begins to noticeably misbehave.   

I agree about Li-I,but it's not about throwing them away.  It's about my home going up in flame. I want to buy from a reputable company with lots to lose.  Even so, Samsung had to get stung, first, didn't they?

I don't know how to fairly compare costs. Can you recommend a brand that has established a reputation for reliability and durability that's comparable to Eneloops?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #216 on: January 06, 2021, 11:18:44 pm »
What is the advantage of higher cell voltage if used in a device like the BM786, if it down-regulates to 3.5 v?  If they have less total capacity, the higher voltage wouldn't translate into better run-time. 

There is very little capacity in the higher terminal voltage batteries at the high voltage point, the voltage drops pretty quickly under load.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #217 on: January 06, 2021, 11:23:28 pm »
Dave does not have a reply banner on his posts.  Thus, I could not "wish' he did have a LCR-ESR meter in his portfolio.

I'd like one, but it's hard find something good without an already well established distribution chain and low prices.
Brymen works because they have pretty horrible marketing and distribution in a lot fo the world, and the margins are good, so they are winners for me.
If anyone knows of a suitable one on the market please let me know, I do want to expand my product portfolio.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #218 on: January 06, 2021, 11:29:11 pm »
As I mentioned during the last video,  I'm just surprised that the BM235's price did not drop.   No doubt the 235 is very robust but outside of using it for some basic electrical work, I wouldn't have a use for it.  With only a $25 spread, I would hands down buy the 786.

Sure but everyones needs are different.
When I list the BM786 on amazon I'll see if the BM235 sales drop, if they do then I'll adjust the price. I sell a ton of BM235 on amazon. Could actually take the BM786 substantial time to build up the same search ranking.

Quote
The 78x series fills a void IMO for people wanting a robust well built meter with some basic features for electronics but can't afford $200+.   

Yep, that's what I thought too when they first proposed it. I'm fairly confident it'll be a winner. Have just ordered another batch.
FYI Brymen pitched me the BM836/839 and sent me samples but I turned those down as they didn't have the same value proposition, so I waited an extra year for the BM786
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 11:39:34 pm by EEVblog »
 
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Online BU508A

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #219 on: January 06, 2021, 11:39:00 pm »
If anyone knows of any decent test gear that isn't being marketing or distributed well, let me know though. I do want to expand the product portfolio.

Dave, I've forwarded your request to the TEA thread. Maybe those folks have some ideas ...  ;D  ;D

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3403880/#msg3403880
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Online BU508A

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #220 on: January 07, 2021, 12:05:04 am »
Dave does not have a reply banner on his posts.  Thus, I could not "wish' he did have a LCR-ESR meter in his portfolio.

I'd like one, but it's hard find something good without an already well established distribution chain and low prices.
Brymen works because they have pretty horrible marketing and distribution in a lot fo the world, and the margins are good, so they are winners for me.
If anyone knows of a suitable one on the market please let me know, I do want to expand my product portfolio.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but how about the DER EE DE-5000 LCR meter? If one wants to buy one new, one has to order it in Japan, e.g. via ebay sellers from there. There is nearly no marketing for them e.g. in Europe.

Just as an idea, probably a stupid one.
“Chaos is found in greatest abundance wherever order is being sought. It always defeats order, because it is better organized.”            - Terry Pratchett -
 

Offline fabrizio_fabrice

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #221 on: January 07, 2021, 12:30:26 am »
What is the advantage of higher cell voltage if used in a device like the BM786, if it down-regulates to 3.5 v?  If they have less total capacity, the higher voltage wouldn't translate into better run-time. 

There is very little capacity in the higher terminal voltage batteries at the high voltage point, the voltage drops pretty quickly under load.
Does the meter benefit in any way from a higher cell voltage? ???
 

Offline IanB

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #222 on: January 07, 2021, 12:31:32 am »
many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter

With aging eyesight I find I need a magnifier to use small format meters like the 235. I find big meters like the 869 much more comfortable to use  :P
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline IanB

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #223 on: January 07, 2021, 12:34:38 am »
Does the meter benefit in any way from a higher cell voltage? ???

It depends. You do have to be a little bit careful though. The NiZn chemistry starts out at 1.8 V or higher when freshly charged and some devices may not work properly at such a high voltage.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter
« Reply #224 on: January 07, 2021, 02:24:33 am »
many people like myself just prefer the smaller meter
With aging eyesight I find I need a magnifier to use small format meters like the 235. I find big meters like the 869 much more comfortable to use  :P

Err, the BM235 has the same size display as the 869.
 


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