New EEVblog BM786 Multimeter

[EEVblog]

Hello,
I was about ordering the BM786, but when I saw the price difference with the BM789: I switched to the 789.
Also I use the Z-Low of my U1272A (very slowwww about 1read/s with low resolution, whereas all the other function are super fast with high resolution and I love that), and the "Auto" of my BM257s (full speed and resolution) for big capacitor discharge and other low-Z checking.
So here is my question: why EEVblog meter is not the 789 model ? 

It's because Brymen are incredibly loyal to their distributors, even if those distributors are crap.
If they already have an official distributor in a specific country and they have an agreement with them for a particular model, then they will not sell that model to any other distributor.
I sell orders of magnitude more meters than the other official Australian Brymen distributor, but they are loyal to them, so they won't let me sell any other meter they are selling.
So Brymen created the BM786 model specifically for me in order to get around this limitation, that was never supposed to be on the market otherwise.
For example, for more than 5 years I've wanted to sell the BM869 but they will not sell it to me.

[Caliaxy]

It's because Brymen are incredibly loyal to their distributors, even if those distributors are crap.
If they already have an official distributor in a specific country and they have an agreement with them for a particular model, then they will not sell that model to any other distributor.
I sell orders of magnitude more meters than the other official Australian Brymen distributor, but they are loyal to them, so they won't let me sell any other meter they are selling.
So Brymen created the BM786 model specifically for me in order to get around this limitation, that was never supposed to be on the market otherwise.
For example, for more than 5 years I've wanted to sell the BM869 but they will not sell it to me.

Idea: would they let you sell blue holsters for the meters they don't let you sell? Then people would buy whatever meter they want (BM789, BM869 etc) from whoever sells it and the holster from you, to support eevblog. You could sell blue holsters for every meter you endorse 

[Fungus]

It's because Brymen are incredibly loyal to their distributors, even if those distributors are crap.
If they already have an official distributor in a specific country and they have an agreement with them for a particular model, then they will not sell that model to any other distributor.
I sell orders of magnitude more meters than the other official Australian Brymen distributor, but they are loyal to them, so they won't let me sell any other meter they are selling.

Is that why they have such poor representation in the USA?

(ie. Greenlee have some sort of a licensing deal)

[EEVblog]

It's because Brymen are incredibly loyal to their distributors, even if those distributors are crap.
If they already have an official distributor in a specific country and they have an agreement with them for a particular model, then they will not sell that model to any other distributor.
I sell orders of magnitude more meters than the other official Australian Brymen distributor, but they are loyal to them, so they won't let me sell any other meter they are selling.

Is that why they have such poor representation in the USA?
(ie. Greenlee have some sort of a licensing deal)

Almost certainly.
If you are in the US, contact Brymen and try to order 500 meters to resell and see what they say.

Back when I originally wanted to resell a Brymen I wanted the BM257, but I was told I couldn't have it because another dealer already sells it. Then they told me about the BM235 which had just started development, and hadn't been offered to them yet, so I had to wait more than a year for that model to be released before I could sell anything Brymen.

[totalnoob]

Is that why they have such poor representation in the USA?

(ie. Greenlee have some sort of a licensing deal)

And Greenlee has a hell of a mark up on their meters, too, which doesn't help any. 

[EEVblog]

Is that why they have such poor representation in the USA?

(ie. Greenlee have some sort of a licensing deal)

And Greenlee has a hell of a mark up on their meters, too, which doesn't help any.

But they don't sell direct do they? So they need a markup on top of that for their retailers.
But I can confirm that the markup is very large.
I do very well selling Brymen meters, even at my reasonable prices.

[rsjsouza]

Is that why they have such poor representation in the USA?

(ie. Greenlee have some sort of a licensing deal)

And Greenlee has a hell of a mark up on their meters, too, which doesn't help any.

But they don't sell direct do they? So they need a markup on top of that for their retailers.
But I can confirm that the markup is very large.
I do very well selling Brymen meters, even at my reasonable prices.

The markup for a DM-860A (BM869 equivalent) is comparatively high (20% when compared to TME), although Tequipment sells them for US$313.00 (US$295 with the 6% EEV discount) which, with shipping (for me it is about US$14.00) it does not necessarily break the bank, as Greenlee promises a "lifetime warranty" (I didn't look at the fine print).

https://www.tequipment.net/Greenlee/DM-860A/Multimeters/?search=true

As an individual user I would go for the TME prices but, if you are a company or can have a tax break of sorts, it would not be tantamount to legalized theft... 

[bdunham7]

But they don't sell direct do they? So they need a markup on top of that for their retailers.
But I can confirm that the markup is very large.

They do sell direct, although not exclusively.  Greenlee is a professional electrician's tool seller, so a lot of their product will be sold through electrician's supply houses.

https://www.greenleestore.com/search?type=product&options%5Bprefix%5D=last&q=multimeter

I don't think those prices are outrageous since they include free shipping and a lifetime warranty that probably isn't backed by Brymen.  Note that they are sold out of almost everything...

Then there's TEquipment, after the 6% EEVblog discount the 869 equivalent is under $300 and includes a nice bag.

https://www.tequipment.net/Greenlee/DM-860A/Multimeters/?v=65116

[ceut]

Quote from: EEVblog on June 01, 2021, 01:01:40 am

It's because Brymen are incredibly loyal to their distributors, even if those distributors are crap.
If they already have an official distributor in a specific country and they have an agreement with them for a particular model, then they will not sell that model to any other distributor.
I sell orders of magnitude more meters than the other official Australian Brymen distributor, but they are loyal to them, so they won't let me sell any other meter they are selling.
So Brymen created the BM786 model specifically for me in order to get around this limitation, that was never supposed to be on the market otherwise.
For example, for more than 5 years I've wanted to sell the BM869 but they will not sell it to me.

Hello Dave,
Thank you for the explaination !
So, today I have received my BM789 but...
Really disappointed 

It has the LCD washed out problem, as you show on your BM786 video.
I has also the right segments washed more than the other - exactly same problem as your video.

Tried with the new battery packed with, then new battery from me, then my Eneloop 100% fully charged: no screen change. (I use my Eneloop for my tests)
And slow auto-range (but this is not really a big problem).

Many great functions too..

No calibration certificate (whereas on BM257s ans BM869s it was there).
But no problem: it spots on with my 2 meters, even the U1272a who as a new certificate / 8 months old (I have recalibred my BM257s after). And my power supply has good calibration too (SPD3303X-E unlocked to X).
 
Compared to BM257s, BM869s and U1272A: the BM789 screen is really bad.
I have protection film on my meters too (original one on the U1272A  , and one I have cut on my BM257s).

So I return the meter, I can't use a screen as bad as this one (I have mailed the shop to do that).

Also, I don't know if the rotary switch has some problem on the PCB tracks.

Some photos here (the BM869 is not there because not mine, but compared too)

The package (except Eneloop !) - not calibration certificate (strange from Brymen):


The Screen    :








Is Brymen starting to fail?  

[EEVblog]

Brymen have never provided a calibration certificate 
Perhaps they can offer one as an optional service to the supplier, but that would cost more.

As for autorange, I think it's quite quick, so 

[ceut]

Brymen have never provided a calibration certificate 
Perhaps they can offer one as an optional service to the supplier, but that would cost more.

As for autorange, I think it's quite quick, so 

Hello,
It's strange because I have had one with my 257s from them, and the serial number is matching with the back of my meter
 

Also, based on your photos, maybe the washed-out screen is something linked to the HY2613C Contrast setting which we can't change (there is a 10K resistor 01C R104 on pin 4 of it which is described as "VLCD" on the datasheet).
But I will not modify my meter to check that 

For the auto-range: it is slower than my 2 others meters (257s and u1272a): I have seen that only when I checked the washed-out screen with all 3 meters in parallel, but I have no problem with that.

I think it is something with the 60.000 counts.

Edit: When I check a BM235 photo on this another great review
https://lygte-info.dk/review/DMMBrymen%20BM235%20UK.html

=>the pin 4 of the same HY2613C chip is tied to a capacitor, so switch to "VLCD Internal Charge Pump" as they talk about on the datasheet with a recommanded value of 1uF.

[joeqsmith]

I checked the one I have and indeed the contrast is so poor I can't make it out. 

[Muttley Snickers]

I don't own this meter but was almost tempted after seeing the image below which was posted on the previous page of this thread, the display appears to be quite crisp in contrast.   

[EEVblog]

I don't own this meter but was almost tempted after seeing the image below which was posted on the previous page of this thread, the display appears to be quite crisp in contrast.   

The contrast is good, but lighting and exposure makes a huge difference when doing comparisons.

BTW, I took this photo way back, not trying to show the LCD, just the sizes.

[Cymaphore]

Is Brymen starting to fail?  

I don't think so. First, by my personal impression, Brymen only recently got better with the displays. We've an old Beha-Amprobe Unitest Hexagon at the workplace, I'm certain it was built by Brymen. Horrible backlight, ok-ish LCD. Overall a good device.

Look at the amount of changes and innovations they do with every new product. With so many significant changes and improvements in relatively short time. They are not just building a box around some standard DMM-chipset with reference circuits, they are maintaining a line of ASICs. And at the same time a huge pressure in pricing and component part cost, no wonder they can't always get everything perfect.

Just look at the interior of that BM78x. You can really see that some engineers love what they are doing and trying to improve every spot available. With that amount of pressure, chances are higher that things go wrong or unexpected and you can't figure it all out before the things are boxed.

That kind of a gear with so much obvious engineering passion, functionality and quality in it and on it, for such a small price. I see no reason to be angry about imperfections or problems.

[joeqsmith]

The my 789 appears to have about the same contrast is the 786s.   Shown with the lab light, backlights on and outdoors.   Angle will make a big difference as well.  Sometimes when comparing so many meters, I have to tilt them just right to get a decent shot.   

https://youtu.be/pPCtnQa0Thc?t=979

[Fungus]

I don't understand why all these fancy meters aren't be as contrasty as a freebie DT830B.  What gives?

(eg. are the freebies overdriving something so that the display won't last very long?)

[HKJ]

I don't understand why all these fancy meters aren't be as contrasty as a freebie DT830B.  What gives?

(eg. are the freebies overdriving something so that the display won't last very long?)

When you have many segments on the display the contrast will be lower, due to the way they are scanned.

[ceut]

Hello,
So, I have sent back the BM789 and have the refund of it.

Also, I have found an youtube video from Dave which shows the solution to fix the LCD contrast on the BM235, @9min39s:


As the BM789 has exactly the same chipset, like I was thinking previously, the resistor for the contrast setting is not good.
Maybe someone would try to change the value and probably fix the issue ?

[EEVblog]

Got a BM786 returned with a reported fluctating low value on ohms, never gets to zero, continuity buzzer going off on it's own etc. Touching range switch causes some change. Completely repeatable.
I test the meter and absolutely nothing wrong. Switch contamination that got wiped away? 

[Brumby]

@EEVblog   How much for the "faulty" meter?  PM me if you want.


(  Not that I need another meter ... but when has that stopped any of us?  )

[wizard69]

As Dave noted you really can't get a good representation of what a human would see when looking at a photo of an LCD screen.    All I can say is that my meter is pretty good at the moment.    There are certainly far worse LCD's on the market.

Personally for my use a 7 segment LED display would probably be better.   I end up having back light turned on most of the time when using meters so an LED would likely be far more readable, especially at odd angles. 

Sadly I don't believe anybody makes a meter with an LED screen (readout) these days.   It is far too easy to put a lot of data on screen via a matrix display.   The user just suffers from the inherent readability issues of LCD's.

Dave

I don't own this meter but was almost tempted after seeing the image below which was posted on the previous page of this thread, the display appears to be quite crisp in contrast.   

[Doctorandus_P]

I just had a (very short) look at that other australian distributor:
https://www.cabac.com.au/brands/

And apparently they do not sell Brymen anymore.

[EEVblog]

I just had a (very short) look at that other australian distributor:
https://www.cabac.com.au/brands/
And apparently they do not sell Brymen anymore.

Wow, that seems to be the case. That could open up opportunities for me to sell more Brymen products. As Cabac have been the reason why I haven't been able to sell any model that they offered.

[2N3055]

I just had a (very short) look at that other australian distributor:
https://www.cabac.com.au/brands/
And apparently they do not sell Brymen anymore.

Wow, that seems to be the case. That could open up opportunities for me to sell more Brymen products. As Cabac have been the reason why I haven't been able to sell any model that they offered.

There is dozens of Brymens sold by them, but branded Cabac.
Just search for BM869, for instance
I actually went and looked, because I was curious and was hoping that you could get them to give distribution to you (you did more for their brand recognition that all distributors combined, and I think you and people who would want to buy Brymen in Aussie land deserve it) but unfortunately,  no.

I guess they went with Greenlee type of arrangement.

Shame..