Author Topic: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?  (Read 106937 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #400 on: January 11, 2018, 03:12:54 am »
The quote was "you knew what you were buying".

Oh, that. But I think that was a paraphrase of "Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?"

My comment of "very slow" was referring to how Dave described the U1282A that was based on the same front end chip set that the 121GW was based on.    Again, I am only pointing out that there was data available.   Bread crumbs perhaps. 
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Online BravoV

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #401 on: January 11, 2018, 03:17:03 am »
Just make a really short video (less than 3 mins maybe) , on comparing this autoranging speed from few well known DMMs, like top tier ones and few popular Chinese ones.

I guess this video alone will clear things up what is the "commonly" acceptable speed.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 03:19:39 am by BravoV »
 

Offline IanB

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #402 on: January 11, 2018, 03:19:47 am »
My comment of "very slow" was referring to how Dave described the U1282A that was based on the same front end chip set that the 121GW was based on.    Again, I am only pointing out that there was data available.   Bread crumbs perhaps.

I don't know, since I don't have one yet.

But I don't really think I would be that bothered. If I only had one resistor to test, I can wait 7 seconds. If I had a batch to test, I would put the meter in manual range mode first, or I would use another meter.

Since there is the option for firmware updates, it might be improved later anyway.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #403 on: January 11, 2018, 03:50:35 am »
My comment of "very slow" was referring to how Dave described the U1282A that was based on the same front end chip set that the 121GW was based on.    Again, I am only pointing out that there was data available.   Bread crumbs perhaps.

I don't know, since I don't have one yet.

But I don't really think I would be that bothered. If I only had one resistor to test, I can wait 7 seconds. If I had a batch to test, I would put the meter in manual range mode first, or I would use another meter.

Since there is the option for firmware updates, it might be improved later anyway.

If you watch the video Akira Tsukamoto posted, he did not wait for the meter to settle and you can see how the meter gets faster.   If you were looking at a batch of parts, even the auto range may be fast enough as long as you don't let it settle.   I'm with you in that it really would not be that big of a deal for me.  If the continuity were slow, for me that would be a deal breaker. 

Not that it really matters but another meter that is along the same settling time as the 121GW is that Gossen M248B.  As many things that I brought up with that meter, I am not sure I focused on the speed.  Then again, that meter has a LOT of problems. 

With Dave's meter, I am more interested in seeing how well it can calculate power.  I had made a demo of the power measurement and ran into a few snags that didn't really concern me too much with it being a prototype.  I think we discussed that in my main thread.  I think Dave was suggesting I was not using the meter correctly and I think I was confused about how it handled the internal losses.   I think they revisited that so I am expecting it to be improved.   
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Offline TheSteve

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #404 on: January 11, 2018, 04:16:15 am »
FYI the U1282A which uses the same chipset auto ranges from OL to short in 2.5 to 3 seconds(still rather slow) so a speed increase with new firmware may be possible.
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steverino

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #405 on: January 11, 2018, 04:47:59 am »
should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?
It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.

I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster.  The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then.   I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter.  Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.       

There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters.  It's getting hard to know where to post.   Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here. 

I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange.  I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos.  I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow.    :-//    Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant? 

There may have been a way to overcome it as people have suggested but it seems like if it were an easy fix, it would have been addressed prior to the release.  Maybe Dave will comment on it.     

I am looking forward to seeing reviews of the more complex features, for example reading the power of a 110/220 LED bulb, showing  the BT,  trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing).   For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some  of these early test,  I appreciate your efforts.

Sorry Joe, but I've only occasionally watched your youtube videos (there's only 24hrs in a day).  And I'm not a read-every-post kind of guy.  I personally think this limitation should have been disclosed on the Kickstarter page.  Some people may feel fine with the slow response, some won't.  Would I purchase one had I known of this problem?  Probably not (don't really need another multimeter).  To me, 6-7 seconds is unacceptable.   I've always appreciated Dave for his honesty and straightforwardness, so I'm hoping this can be corrected.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #406 on: January 11, 2018, 05:05:10 am »
Anyway, I personally want to keep the conversation technical. And for me the biggest questions are: 1) can community help somehow with the issues

Apart form reporting issues, no they cannot. UEi are in control of the firmware.
I have the actual firmware but we have not even tried to compile it.

Quote
2) what is next? Shall we wait for firmware updates or this is the final version of the product and no further improvements are to be expected?

The firmware will get refined.
If you have an issue then report it in the thread for this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-121gw-multimeter-issues/
 
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Online exe

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #407 on: January 11, 2018, 08:45:38 am »
Thanks, Dave, for explaining the situation. Have a nice vacation! (BTW, sorry for asking again, if required, I could sign an NDA, etc to help with the firmware. But I understand that I don't have enough trust/reputation to be given access.).

joeqsmith, I see your point, please see mine about not being able to see tests of final product. Sorry if my point seems to be stupid to you. I'm not an EE, I don't have even 5% of your experience.

Anyway, I stay positive. I wanted some EEVBlog swag, now I have it.

I'd try making my own FW, but without an SDK or a working "hello world" example I have zero chances to succeed. But hopefully other forum members are smarter than me.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #408 on: January 11, 2018, 09:00:58 am »
The firmware will get refined.
If you have an issue then report it in the thread for this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-121gw-multimeter-issues/
Not that I don't appreciate your continuous efforts, but make sure to get some rest and not spend too much time dealing with the forums or customer support. Taking some distance from your day to day affairs is invaluable!
 

Offline BU508A

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #409 on: January 11, 2018, 09:11:53 am »
Dave,

go on vacation! Now!

 :D

You and your family, have a good time.

Andreas
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Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #410 on: January 11, 2018, 09:40:09 am »
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. 

Me either, but I am getting a certain amount of shadenfreude from the wails of anguish in these threads. :popcorn:

A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.

Reality check: It's mostly an off-the-shelf, 0.05% meter*. It's not a meter designed by Dave, it's not been built to his specifications.

It's a good meter for the money. It's safe, it has data logging, it has Bluetooth, it has a bunch of features that not many other meters in this class have, eg. display of power. These extra features are the reason you'd buy this meter, IMHO.

It doesn't have any of the fancy laser-trimmed resistors, etc., that make Flukes what they are. If it was a Fluke 87 for half the money but with loads more features then we'd have known about this brand a long time ago.

(*) It appears to do better than 0.05% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 10:17:19 am by Fungus »
 
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Online amspire

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #411 on: January 11, 2018, 09:48:05 am »
(*) It appears to do better than 0.5% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.
Did you mean 0.05% ?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #412 on: January 11, 2018, 09:50:09 am »
(*) It appears to do better than 0.5% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.
Did you mean 0.05% ?

Yes, sorry. 0.05%, post edited.

(and only 0.05% on a subset of the DC voltage ranges)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 09:53:28 am by Fungus »
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #413 on: January 11, 2018, 10:09:47 am »
Anyway, I personally want to keep the conversation technical. And for me the biggest questions are: 1) can community help somehow with the issues

Apart form reporting issues, no they cannot. UEi are in control of the firmware.
I have the actual firmware but we have not even tried to compile it.
Have you taken a browse through it to get an impression of if it's well structured, commented etc. or just a spaghetti mess ?
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #414 on: January 11, 2018, 12:10:21 pm »
FYI the U1282A which uses the same chipset auto ranges from OL to short in 2.5 to 3 seconds(still rather slow) so a speed increase with new firmware may be possible.

I spent a little time looking for a review of this meter and the UNI-T I mentioned and did not find anyone showing the speed.  Thank you for posting this.   
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #415 on: January 11, 2018, 12:42:33 pm »
Me either, but I am getting a certain amount of shadenfreude from the wails of anguish in these threads. :popcorn:

A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.

This sure seems to be the case.  Maybe just wanting to be part of something, hard to say.   If the meter did have known problems, I could see where producing a full review may have hurt sales.  I guess it depends on your long and short term goals.   

Reality check: It's mostly an off-the-shelf, 0.05% meter*. It's not a meter designed by Dave, it's not been built to his specifications.

It's a good meter for the money. It's safe, it has data logging, it has Bluetooth, it has a bunch of features that not many other meters in this class have, eg. display of power. These extra features are the reason you'd buy this meter, IMHO.

I agree, the meter does have some nice features that make it unique and if you had the need why not.  Personally, I would want to see those unique features fully working before I bought one but the price makes it fairly low risk which may also help explain people buying on faith.     

It doesn't have any of the fancy laser-trimmed resistors, etc., that make Flukes what they are. If it was a Fluke 87 for half the money but with loads more features then we'd have known about this brand a long time ago.

(*) It appears to do better than 0.05% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.
LOL.  I somehow don't get the feeling we will see the same level of quality from UEI as Fluke.  History my prove me wrong. 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #416 on: January 11, 2018, 12:46:47 pm »
[quote ]

A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.[/quote]

This sure seems to be the case.  Maybe just wanting to be part of something, hard to say.   If the meter did have known problems, I could see where producing a full review may have hurt sales.  I guess it depends on your long and short term goals.   

[/quote]
I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #417 on: January 11, 2018, 01:09:04 pm »
I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.
This is the reason for unbiased reviews.  The meter has a lot of features and minimum standards will mean something different depending who you ask.  Even if Dave felt uncomfortable with producing a review because of the bias (perceived or otherwise), I was hoping he would send a few off to the large YT channels to review before offering them.  I thought the guy that offered that high speed camera had the right idea.  Sure there were sites that it was wasted on but a few sites really took the time to show it off.   I think that paid off. 

I think we are just starting to scratch the surface on the UEI meter.  Give it a few months.   I did go back and look at my Gossen BTW doing a side by side comparison and I would say the settling time is a wash between the two.   The Gossen is ever so slightly faster (half second or so).   
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Online exe

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #418 on: January 11, 2018, 01:16:34 pm »
I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.

Absolutely!

Quote from: Fungus
A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.

Guys, please stop this nonsense. Nobody seen/reviewed the final version of the meter. There weren't any reviews and the meter has very obvious problems. Problems that if Dave was reviewing this meter it wouldn't get a good score, imho.

There are problems that are fixable and I'd like them to be fixed. Please stop telling "but this a unique product, it is still worth the money". It's not about it, it's about stupid problems the meter has.

BTW, most people who say "stop whining" don't actually own it.
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #419 on: January 11, 2018, 01:20:10 pm »
I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.
This is the reason for unbiased reviews.  The meter has a lot of features and minimum standards will mean something different depending who you ask.  Even if Dave felt uncomfortable with producing a review because of the bias (perceived or otherwise), I was hoping he would send a few off to the large YT channels to review before offering them.  I thought the guy that offered that high speed camera had the right idea.  Sure there were sites that it was wasted on but a few sites really took the time to show it off.   I think that paid off. 

I think we are just starting to scratch the surface on the UEI meter.  Give it a few months.   I did go back and look at my Gossen BTW doing a side by side comparison and I would say the settling time is a wash between the two.   The Gossen is ever so slightly faster (half second or so).
The point I was making is that you'd expect that  Dave, would tell the manufacturer that it needs to meet certain minimum standards.
It has features that make it unique, but if it's inadequate in other areas, it lessens its value as a general-purpose meter that improves upon the competition and becomes more of a niche instrument that only gets used when the unique features are needed
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Offline Iagash

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #420 on: January 11, 2018, 02:38:02 pm »
Well, Dave wrote it on the kickstarter campaign:

Quote
Risks and challenges

Like all hardware projects, hardware is hard, and "sh!t happens".

So yes, I think one can expect some quirks when buying an initial revision. I just got it today and can confirm some of the complaints in the issue thread and even found some new ones.
I'll report those seperately. I'm not gonna whine about them.

This is not my only meter, but the only one, that has SD-card logging and bluetooth.

I guess most people bought it (like me) because they wanted some swag or a toy, so I got what I wanted.
Until it proves otherwise I consider it a toy and I think I got a nice one.

If the issues get fixed, maybe some day it'll become a tool.
 
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Online amspire

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #421 on: January 11, 2018, 02:39:38 pm »
I am actually delighted at the quality. It is a Kickstarter campaign, I have one of the first 500 meters made, and so far the hardware seems  really excellent. I expected the firmware to be imperfect, but it is very close. Do you think the firmware on the very first production units from Fluke, Keysight, etc to be perfect? The truth is you never see these units. You see meter 1000 or 100000. They are pretty good by then.


Slow autoranging, beeping, the autoranging bug in VA readings, Bluetooth issues, inability to be able to download SD files via Bluetooth. I don't see any of those as significant problems at this stage. They will improve for sure.

Did I want to wait an extra month of two for the firmware to be perfected? Absolutely not. It still would have had bugs anyway. When Dave starts selling on Amazon,  the meters will have had firmware and perhaps even hardware fixes. If you want a polished meter, then of course you should wait for the Amazon meters.
 

Offline hayatepilot

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #422 on: January 11, 2018, 02:48:12 pm »
I will get my meter in the second Kickstarter batch.  8)

The problems so far don't worry me very much since they can (all?) be fixed with firmware updates.
It may take a significant amount of time until the firmware is "perfect" but I'm sure we will get there eventually.  :phew:

Greetings
 

Offline dcac

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #423 on: January 11, 2018, 02:55:28 pm »
Do we know the actual update rate on the bargraph?  the manual only states “fast updating" and then there is the “5 times per second nominal”.   

Could we get a figure or estimate on the bargraph update speed? (or is this info also >hidden< in some now deleted videos or comments thread)
 

steverino

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Re: New EEVBlog-Branded Multimeter Coming?
« Reply #424 on: January 11, 2018, 03:59:07 pm »
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. 

Me either, but I am getting a certain amount of shadenfreude from the wails of anguish in these threads. :popcorn:

A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.

Reality check: It's mostly an off-the-shelf, 0.05% meter*. It's not a meter designed by Dave, it's not been built to his specifications.

It's a good meter for the money. It's safe, it has data logging, it has Bluetooth, it has a bunch of features that not many other meters in this class have, eg. display of power. These extra features are the reason you'd buy this meter, IMHO.

It doesn't have any of the fancy laser-trimmed resistors, etc., that make Flukes what they are. If it was a Fluke 87 for half the money but with loads more features then we'd have known about this brand a long time ago.

(*) It appears to do better than 0.05% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.

I'm sorry.  I didn't know this was a charity donation.
 


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