It's a 100% Dave designed meter rather than a co-branded meter like the Brymen.
The mystery Multi Meter has "low burden" written on the case. He must have included some features of his uCurrent into the upcoming meter.
It's a 100% Dave designed meter rather than a co-branded meter like the Brymen.
It is?
The Supporters Lounge has multiple threads where you can read all about it.
Intertek as a outsource manufacturer?
Yes, Dave has been working on this for a while. It's a 100% Dave designed meter rather than a co-branded meter like the Brymen. They have been sneaking their way into the videos over the last month or so, but this last video is definitely the most open appearance. He used a "super secret meter" at one point that had a 15V diode tester, so that's probably on the list of features.
Dave mentioned in the Batteroo live stream that he was waiting on a final prototype (probably the one shown in the video you are referring to since it should be here by now), and after testing it Dave is expecting to be ready for a public unveiling. (Sorry, I'm too lazy to find a time stamp for any of this)
It's a 100% Dave designed meter rather than a co-branded meter like the Brymen.It is?
Ah, why not, it's been a long time so I'll release this video:
Intertek as a outsource manufacturer?
Intertek is Korean company that does certifications... Like TUV in Germany... It means it was independently tested... Not a meter OEM..
Intertek as a outsource manufacturer?
Intertek is Korean company that does certifications... Like TUV in Germany... It means it was independently tested... Not a meter OEM..
Is Intertek really Korean?
I see from the PCB print that it has 2 fuse holders. Does that mean abandoning the single fuse mosfet solution you spoke of in #931 was one of the compromises? Or does this sample predate the concepts discussed in that video?
I see from the PCB print that it has 2 fuse holders. Does that mean abandoning the single fuse mosfet solution you spoke of in #931 was one of the compromises?
its very interesting to see how long it takes to design a new mutimeter.
i think the sla print video cloud be 7 years old.
In addition to what I said above, yes this is designed from scratch exclusively for me. It's not based on any previous design.
One thing they wanted in the contract though, is they liked the compact 4xAA battery housing I specified and they came up with, so they wanted permission to re-use this on other (non-competing) products of theirs. So you might see the case used in other products.
So the big question is of course....
Does the Batterizer fit? Or is Bob going to send you an angry letter now requesting for you to change it?
:horse:
I couldn't help thinking of simpsons after I hear dave mention "it has bluetooth, 4 AA's instead of AAA, and two full size HRC".
I couldn't help thinking of simpsons after I hear dave mention "it has bluetooth, 4 AA's instead of AAA, and two full size HRC".
I just got the prototype and the Bluetooth doesn't seem to connect on my android phone :scared:
I couldn't help thinking of simpsons after I hear dave mention "it has bluetooth, 4 AA's instead of AAA, and two full size HRC".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHGczDHTDpo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHGczDHTDpo)
But it looks good so far, and I'm sure will be reasonably priced compared to a fluke.
its very interesting to see how long it takes to design a new mutimeter.The metadata in that image says Feb 16, 2000, but the date it was uploaded to Wikipedia was November 15, 2015. I think someone didn't set their camera's clock properly, or faked the metadata.
i think the sla print video cloud be 7 years old.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/SLA_3D_Printed_PCB.jpg/1920px-SLA_3D_Printed_PCB.jpg)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereolithography#/media/File:SLA_3D_Printed_PCB.jpg
Long time stalker, made this account just to add to the hype.
An app has been released on Android Play under the same name:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.co.finest.eevblog&hl=en (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.co.finest.eevblog&hl=en)
Under the credits, the page goes to UEI
http://www.ueitest.com/ (http://www.ueitest.com/)
Alright Dave,
We're ready for a new meter!
J
The app is not compatible with my Samsung S3 [emoji15]
Excited for this meter. Hope I can afford it. The big downfall of most PC Connectable DMMs is the software that goes along with it... I wonder what sort of software this will work with, for logging...
@Dave: any "advanced" information about pricing? This might be my best graduation gift for myself!
Judging from its feature set, if its basic accuracy can be on par with F289 or U1253B, I'm willing to pay ~$600.
I think $250 is a good price point for it, or possibly $270 (twice that of the BM235).
@Dave: any "advanced" information about pricing? This might be my best graduation gift for myself!
What do you think it should sell for?
if its basic accuracy can be on par with F289 or U1253B
Despite the feature set and street cred of being an "EEVBlog" meter, I suspect if it sells for that price he will not sell many. After all it's an untested and unknown brand at this point - more along the lines of Brymen (although one could argue they are now a known and tested brand) and not a Fluke or a Agilent/Keysight, Gossen,etc.
Now if he needs to sell it at that price to make a reasonable profit then he may have no choice. But I suspect (and hope) that's not the case.
True RMSinscription
LOW BURDEN
NO BULLSHIT
I think $250 is a good price point for it, or possibly $270 (twice that of the BM235).Well, hopefully a lot less.
I think $250 is a good price point for it, or possibly $270 (twice that of the BM235).Well, hopefully a lot less.
That's a lot for just a multimeter. I have a Brymen with similar accuracy and that wasn't even near that price.
Don't worry about that, it's not anywhere near that price.
Get hem from Poland and you'd probably even pay less.Don't worry about that, it's not anywhere near that price.
The Brymen 869s sells in Germany for about 219.- EUR incl. VAT.
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM869s-Multimeter (https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM869s-Multimeter)
I think, Dave's meter will be around this price.
Get hem from Poland and you'd probably even pay less.Don't worry about that, it's not anywhere near that price.
The Brymen 869s sells in Germany for about 219.- EUR incl. VAT.
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM869s-Multimeter (https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM869s-Multimeter)
I think, Dave's meter will be around this price.
Dave, please tell me that UI on the app is going to go? I will design you a new one for free if need be.
It's like the guy looked into his toilet after a hard night on the town for inspiration.
Sent from my phone using Tapatalk
No, that price is actually better, in Poland its 197,62 € without VAT, plus 7€ S&H.. Here it is 184,03 € (without VAT) + free S&H...
Dave, please tell me that UI on the app is going to go? I will design you a new one for free if need be.
It's like the guy looked into his toilet after a hard night on the town for inspiration.
No, that price is actually better, in Poland its 197,62 € without VAT, plus 7€ S&H.. Here it is 184,03 € (without VAT) + free S&H...
You mean this one? http://www.eleshop.nl/brymen-bm869s-multimeter.html (http://www.eleshop.nl/brymen-bm869s-multimeter.html)
Don't worry about that, it's not anywhere near that price.
The Brymen 869s sells in Germany for about 219.- EUR incl. VAT.
https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM869s-Multimeter (https://www.welectron.com/Brymen-BM869s-Multimeter)
I think, Dave's meter will be around this price.
Likely I'll just leave it up to the community, the protocol will be open and I don't mind if someone writes one and sells it. The best app will win out in the end.
Why is the degrees Celsius annunciator an upper index of the primary display when Dave is measuring voltage?
My guess would be that the upper region changes depending on what you're measuring. In AC V it's probably frequency etc. Possibly you can select what the top deck displays, or maybe it's just temp when measuring DC V rather than displaying nothing up there.
Don't get too caught up in what you're seeing now, the meter you're seeing is not a finished product! :)
Don't get too caught up in what you're seeing now, the meter you're seeing is not a finished product! :)
I believe Dave said it was. They are not going to redo the mold at this stage.
Re: pricing
Maybe Dave could offer two versions of the 121GW meter - a regular version at a sensible price, and an upgraded version with gold plating and personally autographed by Dave for $800+ aimed at Completionists and the members of "Test Equipment Anonymous" ? ?
My guess would be that the upper region changes depending on what you're measuring. In AC V it's probably frequency etc. Possibly you can select what the top deck displays, or maybe it's just temp when measuring DC V rather than displaying nothing up there.
Yes, that's almost certainly like you described and other meters do it like that, indeed. My only gripe is the location of the symbol. Like it is right now, it strongly implies it refers to the primary (lower, bigger) value instead of the secondary, top one.
My only gripe is the location of the symbol. Like it is right now, it strongly implies it refers to the primary (lower, bigger) value instead of the secondary, top one.
He needs to ask?
Dave, why did you call it the 121GW?From the film Back To The Future (Part 1)
Dave, why did you call it the 121GW?From the film Back To The Future (Part 1)
if its basic accuracy can be on par with F289 or U1253B
It's not.
Deliberately a lower accuracy to meet a lower price point
I'm in the market for a new multimeter and just happened to stumble upon this thread. I'm super excited about it and will hold out until I hear more info about this meter.
Did the issue of the "m
V" display get sorted out?
There's no challenge in that.
The 121GW is very much worth the effort!
More centimeters?There's no challenge in that.
The 121GW is very much worth the effort!
Indeed, it's fun to have been part of the process.
The uRuler is coming as well, just have to think of a few more things to add.
More centimeters?There's no challenge in that.
The 121GW is very much worth the effort!
Indeed, it's fun to have been part of the process.
The uRuler is coming as well, just have to think of a few more things to add.
Something that will be a world first in rulers
Something that will be a world first in rulersAdd WIFI, so it can convert between metric and imperial using some cloud service. :horse:
Something that will be a world first in rulersAdd WIFI, so it can convert between metric and imperial using some cloud service. :horse:
Put the numbers on an LCD, the base model will only show centimeters, when you need millimeters you need to buy an additional license. :horse:
I'm almost certain you've hit the nail on the head. :-+Dave, why did you call it the 121GW?From the film Back To The Future (Part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjCRUvX2D0E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjCRUvX2D0E)
... we have more important things to worry about.
This is the full quoted text of the response from Dave to my enquiry.... we have more important things to worry about.
I'm sure they will sort of what ever the problems are.The LCD is not changing, we have more important things to worry about.
That's a very direct, honest answer. Good on Dave for doing that.
Selectively editing words carelessly can change the meaning. I would possibly tolerate that sort of unctuous post if seemed other than totally self serving.
Meter is looking sharp! Hope the testing is going well
Actually, a few major issues still...
I couldn't help thinking of simpsons after I hear dave mention "it has bluetooth, 4 AA's instead of AAA, and two full size HRC".
I just got the prototype and the Bluetooth doesn't seem to connect on my android phone :scared:
I wonder if this DMM (121GW) is built on any aspects of this "TIDA-01012" reference design at all? (50000 counts, bluetooth, etc)
I wonder if this DMM (121GW) is built on any aspects of this "TIDA-01012" reference design at all? (50000 counts, bluetooth, etc)
It's not.
Standard multimeter chipset + ST ARM processor.
I wonder if this DMM (121GW) is built on any aspects of this "TIDA-01012" reference design at all? (50000 counts, bluetooth, etc)
It's not.
Standard multimeter chipset + ST ARM processor.
Whats the processor? and will it be open to custom firmware?
Whats the processor? and will it be open to custom firmware?
STM32L152D
Schematic and protocols will be open, not sure about firmware.
Standard low cost ST ARM programmer header.
Whats the processor? and will it be open to custom firmware?
STM32L152D
Schematic and protocols will be open, not sure about firmware.
Standard low cost ST ARM programmer header.
Awesome, will open up some possibilities for some since the chip is fully documented in the public domain and the schematic will help oodles too!
I also can't see why code snippets can't be released. e.g. LCD drivers, maybe chipset driver etc.
I'd like it to be completely open source, but it's hard to convince companies to do this.
From the pictures it almost looks as if there's an ESP8266 in there, but next to the STM32L152D does not make sense I guess :)
From the pictures it almost looks as if there's an ESP8266 in there, but next to the STM32L152D does not make sense I guess :)
Bluetooth module
Does this thing have an estimated time of release?
Is that going to be a Kickstarter as some people suggest in this thread or just "normal EEVBlog shop" ?
But presumably a normal stocked product afterwards ?Is that going to be a Kickstarter as some people suggest in this thread or just "normal EEVBlog shop" ?
Kickstarter
But presumably a normal stocked product afterwards ?Is that going to be a Kickstarter as some people suggest in this thread or just "normal EEVBlog shop" ?Kickstarter
But presumably a normal stocked product afterwards ?Is that going to be a Kickstarter as some people suggest in this thread or just "normal EEVBlog shop" ?Kickstarter
Of course, but almost certainly at a higher price.
It's the usual problem of having to pony up a large sum of money for that initial minimum bulk production run.
Didn't do that for my new high voltage probe, because it's already (or will be) an off-the-shelf product, so I can order as many as I like. But still I pony'd up a lot of cash for initial stock.
Will it have a dBm mode? That's something I use all the time - I do a lot of audio work.
In the case of Fluke, you need to stretch to a 187/9 or 287/9 to get that (and you know how these eat batteries!). The classic 8050A and 8060 models have it, of course, along with the 45. I use them all, along with an 8920A for wide BW stuff.
As it's only a bit of code, it's a shame that it isn't more widespread at the saner end of the market. I suppose a lack of a "dB" annunciator on the chosen LCD might rule it out?
For me, it'll turn a "maybe" into a "definitely" :-+
Sure, why not reveal a low-burden multimeter just after I order a uCurrent? :P
At least this uCurrent will have a lot of experiences to share with me, as DHL seems to be giving it a long vacation in Europe >:D
Whats the processor? and will it be open to custom firmware?
STM32L152D
Schematic and protocols will be open, not sure about firmware.
Standard low cost ST ARM programmer header.
More centimeters?There's no challenge in that.
The 121GW is very much worth the effort!
Indeed, it's fun to have been part of the process.
The uRuler is coming as well, just have to think of a few more things to add.
Something that will be a world first in rulers
Transistor tester?
What refresh rate does the display 3, 4 , 5 times per second?
Will it have a dBm mode? That's something I use all the time - I do a lot of audio work.
In the case of Fluke, you need to stretch to a 187/9 or 287/9 to get that (and you know how these eat batteries!). The classic 8050A and 8060 models have it, of course, along with the 45. I use them all, along with an 8920A for wide BW stuff.
As it's only a bit of code, it's a shame that it isn't more widespread at the saner end of the market. I suppose a lack of a "dB" annunciator on the chosen LCD might rule it out?
For me, it'll turn a "maybe" into a "definitely" :-+
Hope I'm right here -- pretty sure it does have dBm mode ;D
Will it have a dBm mode? That's something I use all the time - I do a lot of audio work.
In the case of Fluke, you need to stretch to a 187/9 or 287/9 to get that (and you know how these eat batteries!). The classic 8050A and 8060 models have it, of course, along with the 45. I use them all, along with an 8920A for wide BW stuff.
As it's only a bit of code, it's a shame that it isn't more widespread at the saner end of the market. I suppose a lack of a "dB" annunciator on the chosen LCD might rule it out?
For me, it'll turn a "maybe" into a "definitely" :-+
Hope I'm right here -- pretty sure it does have dBm mode ;D
Thanks for that - where did you pick up that information from?
Will it have a dBm mode? That's something I use all the time - I do a lot of audio work.
In the case of Fluke, you need to stretch to a 187/9 or 287/9 to get that (and you know how these eat batteries!). The classic 8050A and 8060 models have it, of course, along with the 45. I use them all, along with an 8920A for wide BW stuff.
As it's only a bit of code, it's a shame that it isn't more widespread at the saner end of the market. I suppose a lack of a "dB" annunciator on the chosen LCD might rule it out?
For me, it'll turn a "maybe" into a "definitely" :-+
Hope I'm right here -- pretty sure it does have dBm mode ;D
Thanks for that - where did you pick up that information from?
I'm not in the know or anything, but there's nothing I can see on the range switch labels indicating that capability:
(http://i.imgur.com/mUCOl2F.png)
I think the "REL" key is THE key here (see what I did here?)
Will it have a dBm mode? That's something I use all the time - I do a lot of audio work.
In the case of Fluke, you need to stretch to a 187/9 or 287/9 to get that (and you know how these eat batteries!). The classic 8050A and 8060 models have it, of course, along with the 45. I use them all, along with an 8920A for wide BW stuff.
As it's only a bit of code, it's a shame that it isn't more widespread at the saner end of the market. I suppose a lack of a "dB" annunciator on the chosen LCD might rule it out?
For me, it'll turn a "maybe" into a "definitely" :-+
Hope I'm right here -- pretty sure it does have dBm mode ;D
Thanks for that - where did you pick up that information from?
I'm not in the know or anything, but there's nothing I can see on the range switch labels indicating that capability:
(http://i.imgur.com/mUCOl2F.png)
15V diode test voltage? :-+
Dave, don't let Joe Smith get a hold of one of these. :D (Actually, I look forward to Joe's tests.)Me too, I can't wait til he gets a hold of it! ;D
:-DDDave, don't let Joe Smith get a hold of one of these. :D (Actually, I look forward to Joe's tests.)Me too, I can't wait til he gets a hold of it! ;D
Here is another meter with a 15V Zener diode test mode:
Protek 608
Even better.... those who were at the meetup had the opportunity to play with one :D
.... but I didn't bring a screwdriver to take it apart!
Looks really good. Can't wait for it. :) Just curious will it be able to measure power in W?
It's days away!!!
My guess is somewhere between 102 and 103 days. ;D
Hmm... so that's 3.33 months to 2.73 years.
Gee, I hope it's not the latter... :-DMM
If you need to satisfy your DMM dependency quickly, you can order the EEVblog Brymen BM235 from amazon.com.
Then, later, when you get the 121GW model, you will have a color matching pair.
:)
i have 2 worn up Fluke 83v loll they began to have some dial selector issues ...See Modemhead's 83 III repair blog regarding rotary switch
Is the multimeter to be IEC 61010 Cat. III approved? I remember from the Mooshimeter project (https://moosh.im/2014/07/), it took a very long time to pass approvals.
And there were many surprises. I have done designs for 61010 product approvals and it is a lot of work.
Hmm... so that's 3.33 months to 2.73 years.
Gee, I hope it's not the latter... :-DMM
If you need to satisfy your DMM dependency quickly, you can order the EEVblog Brymen BM235 from amazon.com. Then, later, when you get the 121GW model, you will have a color matching pair.
:)
Not sure about .com but Amazon.ca ran out of the BM235 earlier this month. :(
Not sure about .com but Amazon.ca ran out of the BM235 earlier this month. :(
I don't really have enough to re-stock Amazon at this time.
I may run out completely before new stock arrives :scared:
(stock is 2 months lead time from order)
Not sure about .com but Amazon.ca ran out of the BM235 earlier this month. :(
I had finally justified the expense and poof, all gone! I shall patiently await their future restocking.
I would order directly through the EEVblog store but then I would have to pay duty (which I can't actually find an answer as to how much it would be) and the $10 duty processing fee. :(
Does anyone know anything about the backlight of the 121GW? As far as the Brymen 829s is concerned the backlight goes off much too fast and you cannot change the timing, such as with a Fluke (113-117, 177-179, etc...) and their PowerUp-Feature for continous backlight. Therefore you cannot use it in a proper way under difficult light conditions. As a bench DMM it is fine but not my favourite.
At least the rotary switch seems to be improved. The rotary knob of my Brymen is the worst I have ever used. Much too small and hard to turn. I keep my fingers crossed, that Brymen will take this version of the 121GW for any new model...provided that it is really better. I hope that it is at least comparable with the 87V whch also has no depth for your fingertips. However, in this case it is negligible as you can use your bended forefinger together with your thumb.
By the way: Looking at the photos of Brymen's updated HP, I am not impressed by the way they manufactured the input receptacles - no DMM has all of them centered... :(
121GW is not manufactured by brymen...
121GW is not manufactured by brymen...
It is "Made in Korea".
So, who could it be, then? Samsung?
And I can hear suspicious noises behind the curtains .... ;D
121GW is not manufactured by brymen...
It is "Made in Korea".
So, who could it be, then? Samsung?
And I can hear suspicious noises behind the curtains .... ;D
121GW is not manufactured by brymen...
It is "Made in Korea".
So, who could it be, then? Samsung?
And I can hear suspicious noises behind the curtains .... ;D
He gives it away in the latest video. It's UEI.
UEI doesn't make meters, their OEM is FINEST TEST INSTRUMENTS in Korea, as is the case with many of the Klein multimeters, i.e. Klein MM6000 etc...
UEI doesn't make meters, their OEM is FINEST TEST INSTRUMENTS in Korea, as is the case with many of the Klein multimeters, i.e. Klein MM6000 etc...
He gives it away in the latest video. It's UEI.
He gives it away in the latest video. It's UEI.That video was for supporters only.
UEI doesn't make meters, their OEM is FINEST TEST INSTRUMENTS in Korea, as is the case with many of the Klein multimeters, i.e. Klein MM6000 etc...
UEI helped design and manufacture the Klein meters, many of which incidentally are made in the USA. So Fluke are not the only ones to have Uncle Sam made meters.
UEI and Klein tools are also related companies.
There is quite a lot of complicated relationships with these companies in terms of manufacturing and design services.
e.g. You could ask UEI to design you a product, and they might subcontract that out to someone else, and have someone else again manufacture it.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but how do you become a supporter these days, is it via Patreon?He gives it away in the latest video. It's UEI.That video was for supporters only.
I hate patreon because they make too many youtubers make commercials for them. Anything that appears frequently in ads and commercials will automatically be hated by me.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but how do you become a supporter these days, is it via Patreon?He gives it away in the latest video. It's UEI.That video was for supporters only.
Im disappointed and concerned about the rotary switcher,this is bullshit and lame for our modern era .
Pls change it with buttons like in the MTX 3292 or for something similar.
No. I like range switches.Im glad that u like it ,but it would be way easier to produce the entire multimeter with buttons instead the rotary switcher .
No it wouldn't, as you'd need a lot more electronics to handle the switching that a multi-pole rotary switch does.No. I like range switches.Im glad that u like it ,but it would be way easier to produce the entire multimeter with buttons instead the rotary switcher .
A good product with poor usability is a bad product. I've found multimeters with too many buttons to be extremely annoying, especially when you can just stick it on the range switch. With a range switch, it's very easy to see what mode the meter is in because it is printed on the range switch.No. I like range switches.Im glad that u like it ,but it would be way easier to produce the entire multimeter with buttons instead the rotary switcher .
In my opinion the rotary switcher makes the abs case more complex to make,it's also way bulkier and also requires more space inside the multimeter.
However ,just my opinions .
He gives it away in the latest video. It's UEI.
That video was for supporters only.
No it wouldn't, as you'd need a lot more electronics to handle the switching that a multi-pole rotary switch does.No. I like range switches.Im glad that u like it ,but it would be way easier to produce the entire multimeter with buttons instead the rotary switcher .
I would tend to agree - but one thing that I find curious... If push buttons are so good, why are there so many meters out there with rotary switches?
The DMM market is very conservative - look how similar todays DMMs are to those of 20 years ago.I would tend to agree - but one thing that I find curious... If push buttons are so good, why are there so many meters out there with rotary switches?
Maybe because is begin to be an common mainstream ???
I dont know ,but i still prefer the buttons ,because they can ensure more time-life instead of etched traces on the pcb for the mechanical switcher ......
Im fascinating by the MTX 3292 design ,i think that when i get enough money that would be my 1st pro handled multimeter.
Didn't want to start a new topic and I couldn't find an existing one about the 121GW multimeter.
I saw the Joe Smith test with it and it left a good impression on me. However some comments left a sour taste, don't understand if it's the same person or different ones, badgering the same issue to death: "200-ish$, needs more buttons, cannot stand 2kV, FAIL". What the hell is wrong? I don't think there's
...
If I have one suggestion, is that it can be set up to default to continuity test on the ohms range and to DC on voltage range.
Speaking of safety ... I have yet to accidentally change ranges with a rotary switch.
Push buttons are all too easy to be operated unintentionally.
Who here has NEVER had the face of their meter come into contact with another object?
Im glad that u like it ,but it would be way easier to produce the entire multimeter with buttons instead the rotary switcher .
However ,just my opinions .
We gonna see this kickstarter go live with the EEVBlog #1000 episode perhaps? hmmm
FWIW the Fluke 189 dial and button arrangement got it pretty right imho :-+
It's the fastest no brainer feature packed meter I have ever used, and the continuity chirper and speed is unbeatable.
[...]
[...]I think this is one of these things you will start missing the second you have had it. On the other hand I have the BM235 and I do find myself actually being bothered by the resistance and continuity being the same position on the selector switch. Somehow it feels like the meter comes on randomly with resistance or continuity (while in fact it was just me having used these functions previously, but forgetting). This might be a personal quirk though, I have those... :-X
I would not be too surprised if the released version of the meter did not store the last settings. Personally, I really like that feature on the BM869s. I've seen people complain about it as well. It's really a question for Dave.
FWIW the Fluke 189 dial and button arrangement got it pretty right imho :-+Joeqsmith has compared the Fluke 289 and the Uni-t UT-181 in the review of the latter and I remember him mentioning the Uni-T kind of copied their user interface, but seems to have made quite some detail improvements on its interface, reducing the amount menu steps required for some funtions. It was also able to display the AC, the DC and the AC+DC value simultaneously while the 289 could not. It did not turn out to be particularly robust though.
It's the fastest no brainer feature packed meter I have ever used, and the continuity chirper and speed is unbeatable.
[...]
[...]
Friendly FYI: the 189 bears no resemblance to the 289
[...]
Friendly FYI: the 189 bears no resemblance to the 289
Whoops! My mistake... |O :-X Comment removed.
I am all waiting for 121GW to be out :). It has some serious features not found on any multimeter. I am following up on Joe youtube channel .. all multimeters get some good beating and come out more reformed and tested. 121GW has not fared bad considering it is not in production as yet, some issues can potentially be fixed.
I am all waiting for 121GW to be out :). It has some serious features not found on any multimeter. I am following up on Joe youtube channel .. all multimeters get some good beating and come out more reformed and tested. 121GW has not fared bad considering it is not in production as yet, some issues can potentially be fixed.
I think it's important to also understand Joe's tests in context.
The Fluke 87V, the most trusted meter on the market, fails every single one of Joe's tests. According to Joe's tests it's one of the worst meters on the market. Yet I doubt there is a single 87V owner ever who has seen their meter die due to any ESD or pulse overload etc.
I think it's important to also understand Joe's tests in context.
The Fluke 87V, the most trusted meter on the market, fails every single one of Joe's tests. According to Joe's tests it's one of the worst meters on the market. Yet I doubt there is a single 87V owner ever who has seen their meter die due to any ESD or pulse overload etc.
I agree.. most of the tests are a worst case scenarios (black swan events). 87v is a standard when it comes to rugged meters but has failed many of Joes tests. In fact Fluke 101 :) has passed more tests then any of the more expensive meters.
I think it's important to also understand Joe's tests in context.
The Fluke 87V, the most trusted meter on the market, fails every single one of Joe's tests. According to Joe's tests it's one of the worst meters on the market. Yet I doubt there is a single 87V owner ever who has seen their meter die due to any ESD or pulse overload etc.
I agree.. most of the tests are a worst case scenarios (black swan events). 87v is a standard when it comes to rugged meters but has failed many of Joes tests. In fact Fluke 101 :) has passed more tests then any of the more expensive meters.
For me it's simply a matter of has a meter passed independent safety testing (UL, ETL etc). If so then it's good enough to recommend and use it on anything it's rated for.
Sure, if a meter is failing ESD testing or something that could potentially be common place, then that may be a cause for concern, but even the Fluke 87V has shown no sign of doing that in practice for the 13 years it's been released as the V series, apart from Joe's test.
... thermocouple effects in probe and contact dissimilar metals will likely dominate.
My guess is that Joe was just replicating the tests he did previously with other meters.
I assume Dave reviewed the original video of the set and gave me the thumbs up to make it public, so I plan to leave that one.
... thermocouple effects in probe and contact dissimilar metals will likely dominate.It only has to be explained why these effects dominate just at Gossen and do not dominate at UNI-T ..., if they really dominate.
I see Joes test as a temperature drift test (of near to zero readings) - what is so bad about it?
Nothing per-se if you want such a data point, so long as the thermocouple effects from junctions are consistent. Mostly you won't know what materials are used in the test leads and the contacts on the meters, so it could be a bit of a crap-shoot.
That's why if your goal is to characterise the tempco of a meter (that is mostly comprised of the reference + divider resistors), then you do it on the higher voltage ranges.
in stock now in .com and .ca maybe it because I have bought one
Hmm... so that's 3.33 months to 2.73 years.
Gee, I hope it's not the latter... :-DMM
If you need to satisfy your DMM dependency quickly, you can order the EEVblog Brymen BM235 from amazon.com. Then, later, when you get the 121GW model, you will have a color matching pair.
:)
Not sure about .com but Amazon.ca ran out of the BM235 earlier this month. :(
Joking aside, is there a reason (except, well, sacrificing a button but that should not be a problem with >$100 meters) why so many multimeters do not have separate power buttons?
If you have a range switch anyway, then it costs nothing to add a power to to the PCB for that.
If you have a power button you can leave the meter on the range you most commonly use, which may also save some wear and tear on the range switch. It is probably a small thing, but it is a convenience, and it avoids the accident of turning the range switch to off while the meter is still connected (even if that may not be harmful to the meter, will it be harmful to the DuT?)
I really hope to buy the "Dave gw121" one loll
For me the only thing i would hack is to remove the mv selection, i measure lots of voltages, i need one range of AC and / or DC.
Im searching for a faster reading(s) meter like my gossen 28s, the newest metrahit ultra cost a mere 1200-1500$ here in Canada outch, boy i wish it could be like 3 -5 readngs a sec.
For me the only thing i would hack is to remove the mv selection, i measure lots of voltages, i need one range of AC and / or DC.Must be a technical reason for it (as in having to physically switch some components in). Personally I'd switch continuity to be default mode when switching to ohms (or even having its own position if possible), I use it almost as often than measuring resistance
That's really neat way to do it, wonder if there is any other meter with last mode memory like it.
I hope we can get the meter before christmas :D
Any word on when this will be available ...
.... and the price?
Any word on when this will be available ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILIO5b1BliE&feature=youtu.be&t=664 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILIO5b1BliE&feature=youtu.be&t=664).... and the price?
Have read here about 200,- $ + shipping + tax + customs depend on your country
I wonder when supporters (patreon & forum) 40 units are going to be ready && shipped? :)
The issue is fixed and the units are being shipped December 5th.
The issue is fixed and the units are being shipped December 5th.Will we get an email with tracking when they are shipped? I got my invoice with order number 11039 on 25th Nov but no more information since then and I am extremely curious if I will get a christmas present. :-+
Well, i had a look at the manual, but I am not that knowledgable of multimeters. I would prefer if someone laid it out for me :-)
He said he will not meet the deadline, i believe. I just wondered if I missed some videos or blogs about it. Looks like it was all kind of a secret?
Well, i had a look at the manual, but I am not that knowledgable of multimeters. I would prefer if someone laid it out for me :-)
I don't have to know anything to enjoy information. Dave's videos usualy say "look at this! this is crap because this and this. When you compare it with this multimeter, you see the difference!"
That is all I need. I'm just interested. I wasn't even aware he did the kickstarter until it was already over.
It just seemed strange to me that so many people would order a multimeter without knowing exact specs, so i figured i missed some information. That is all.
And again, I am just interested about why would you do a project of two years when you already have the best multimeters in the world on your bench. What is different (except burden voltage).
For example Bluetooth communication, 15V diode test (I've never seen that on other meters)
The information video here is surely a good start:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eevblog/eevblog-121gw-multimeter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/eevblog/eevblog-121gw-multimeter)
It's not about your English, we understand your questions OK. But the information is already out there. I don't know of any videos that are exclusive to Patreon or Kickstarter. All the information is public.
The meter has many extra features, some of them you can also find on other meters, but not al of them in the same meter.
Some of the features are (I am probably missing some):
15V diode test
Bluetooth
SD card logging
Concurrent V and A measurement
Low burden voltage
Software in meter can be updated
Possibly Apple, IOS software too? 👍
Thanks
Russ
If I recalled it correctly, it's written in Xamarin/C#, so there is no reason why it won't run on iOS if Dave is willing to pay for an iOS license of Xamarin.
And yet again you have missed what I have been saying.
I said that I understand that one of the things is burden voltage, but I am wondering what else.
I wasn't thinking about consumer reviews but info from Dave. I thought i missed the videos. I mean, this project lasts for two years, does it not?
And again, I am just interested about why would you do a project of two years when you already have the best multimeters in the world on your bench. What is different (except burden voltage).
Is my english so bad?
Guys honestly I was following up on 121GW but doh |O Holidays + YearEnd I missed when kick starter happed. The time I knew it was already over :scared:
I have purchased a few multimeters last year, Fluke 87v, Extech EX540 and yes Uni-t ut171B. The last uni-t that I received is independently certified, and 0.025% class (that they claim at least). I was comparing the specs of all the above against Dave's 121GW, the 121GW is cool, desirable small form factor with some unique features, bluetooth + that EEVBlog Blue :popcorn:
But I am at a loss when it comes accuracy - in 121GW manual, accuracy is mentioned to be different for each range. Where as for Fluke 87v it is same across the range and pretty good too, for ex: Resistance up to 50 M? @ ±(0.2% + 1), DC Voltage up to 1000 V @±(0.05% + 1)
But 121GW accuracy is different for different ranges. Resistance 50 M? range @ ±1.2%+20, DC voltage 600 V @ ±0.1% + 10
May be some one can clarify here.. are the other meters hiding the accuracy for different ranges ?
For example Bluetooth communication, 15V diode test (I've never seen that on other meters)
Sorry if I have missed the announcement or information, but when will the general public, who were not part of the funding project, be able to place an order for one of these beauties.
Guys honestly I was following up on 121GW but doh |O Holidays + YearEnd I missed when kick starter happed. The time I knew it was already over :scared:
I have purchased a few multimeters last year, Fluke 87v, Extech EX540 and yes Uni-t ut171B. The last uni-t that I received is independently certified, and 0.025% class (that they claim at least). I was comparing the specs of all the above against Dave's 121GW, the 121GW is cool, desirable small form factor with some unique features, bluetooth + that EEVBlog Blue :popcorn:
But I am at a loss when it comes accuracy - in 121GW manual, accuracy is mentioned to be different for each range. Where as for Fluke 87v it is same across the range and pretty good too, for ex: Resistance up to 50 M? @ ±(0.2% + 1), DC Voltage up to 1000 V @±(0.05% + 1)
But 121GW accuracy is different for different ranges. Resistance 50 M? range @ ±1.2%+20, DC voltage 600 V @ ±0.1% + 10
May be some one can clarify here.. are the other meters hiding the accuracy for different ranges ?
Higher end meters use custom laser trimmed ceramic hybrid divider networks, this likely results in the ability to more confidently state a specification over all the ranges.
Sorry if I have missed the announcement or information, but when will the general public, who were not part of the funding project, be able to place an order for one of these beauties.
It is a bit unclear. If UEi will produce it after the kickstarter, then not before March 2018 most likely.
For example Bluetooth communication, 15V diode test (I've never seen that on other meters)
Protek 608 (https://www.tequipment.net/Protek608.asp) had 20V diode mode (if the battery was fresh).
If I remember correctly, the later model (protek 610/620) sadly dropped the high voltage diode mode, but added 100k count and datalogging. Was an amazing meter for the price: https://www.tequipment.net/Protek620.asp (https://www.tequipment.net/Protek620.asp)
For example Bluetooth communication, 15V diode test (I've never seen that on other meters)
Protek 608 (https://www.tequipment.net/Protek608.asp) had 20V diode mode (if the battery was fresh).
If I remember correctly, the later model (protek 610/620) sadly dropped the high voltage diode mode, but added 100k count and datalogging. Was an amazing meter for the price: https://www.tequipment.net/Protek620.asp (https://www.tequipment.net/Protek620.asp)
Interesting:
"Due to the unreliability of Protek producing this item on time we have discontinued this unit."
They simply can't make enough f them due to parts availability.
Any available stock goes to Kickstarters first.
They simply can't make enough f them due to parts availability.
Any available stock goes to Kickstarters first.
Thanks for your answer. Do I understand this right:
When UEi will have all the needed parts and all kickstarter meters are delivered,
then UEi will produce more 121GW so everybody can buy them?
Cheers,
Andreas
They simply can't make enough f them due to parts availability.
Any available stock goes to Kickstarters first.
Thanks for your answer. Do I understand this right:
When UEi will have all the needed parts and all kickstarter meters are delivered,
then UEi will produce more 121GW so everybody can buy them?
Cheers,
Andreas
Cheers on them for not doing the Shenzhen routine! (Nothing quite beats calling around to suppliers asking for that one resistor array in a weird format to be able to finish a batch of boards - only to receive crusty parts that look as if they were desoldered and re-reeled)
They simply can't make enough f them due to parts availability.
Any available stock goes to Kickstarters first.
Thanks for your answer. Do I understand this right:
When UEi will have all the needed parts and all kickstarter meters are delivered,
then UEi will produce more 121GW so everybody can buy them?
Cheers,
Andreas
Cheers on them for not doing the Shenzhen routine! (Nothing quite beats calling around to suppliers asking for that one resistor array in a weird format to be able to finish a batch of boards - only to receive crusty parts that look as if they were desoldered and re-reeled)
What? :-//
I don't get it. What do you want us to say with your statement?
*scratching head*
If you really *want* components you can usually get them if you call around enough and they're not too exotic, but the sources are questionable at best. You risk things like fakes, desoldered components, reels that were partially used and were sitting in a damp warehouse , ... So the fact that they're running into supplying limitations means they're using reputable distributors who don't just buy up components left and right in an attempt to meet deadlines. :)I remember Dave talking about this in one of his videos. It's the only way to go if you care about your product.
Or you have to pay a lot to get them from the one person in the world who is sitting on a stash of genuine partsThey simply can't make enough f them due to parts availability.
Any available stock goes to Kickstarters first.
Thanks for your answer. Do I understand this right:
When UEi will have all the needed parts and all kickstarter meters are delivered,
then UEi will produce more 121GW so everybody can buy them?
Cheers,
Andreas
Cheers on them for not doing the Shenzhen routine! (Nothing quite beats calling around to suppliers asking for that one resistor array in a weird format to be able to finish a batch of boards - only to receive crusty parts that look as if they were desoldered and re-reeled)
What? :-//
I don't get it. What do you want us to say with your statement?
*scratching head*
If you really *want* components you can usually get them if you call around enough and they're not too exotic, but the sources are questionable at best. You risk things like fakes, desoldered components, reels that were partially used and were sitting in a damp warehouse , ... So the fact that they're running into supplying limitations means they're using reputable distributors who don't just buy up components left and right in an attempt to meet deadlines. :)
Or you have to pay a lot to get them from the one person in the world who is sitting on a stash of genuine parts
They simply can't make enough f them due to parts availability.
Any available stock goes to Kickstarters first.
Thanks for your answer. Do I understand this right:
When UEi will have all the needed parts and all kickstarter meters are delivered,
then UEi will produce more 121GW so everybody can buy them?
DaveMy calculator cannot work with these numbers. At 100,000 volts maybe a 6 foot diameter fuse may work. But there is a typo, it is 1.21 GW not 121 GW (the decimal is missing from the model number). FYI I read that 1.21 can power about a million homes. So maybe 121 GW can power the US. I wonder what size fuse is needed for the US? I think a 6 foot fuse at 100,000 volts will not last long.
What brand and type of fuse is in it, that enables it to handle readings in the 121GW range? You’ll be supplying extra fuses for it? Leads/probes?
Thanks
:-DD
DaveMy calculator cannot work with these numbers. At 100,000 volts maybe a 6 foot diameter fuse may work.
What brand and type of fuse is in it, that enables it to handle readings in the 121GW range? You’ll be supplying extra fuses for it? Leads/probes?
Thanks
:-DD
But there is a typo, it is 1.21 GW not 121 GW (the decimal is missing from the model number). FYI I read that 1.21 can power about a million homes. So maybe 121 GW can power the US. I wonder what size fuse is needed for the US? I think a 6 foot fuse at 100,000 volts will not last long.
So you need to say what voltage you are using. At 5 volts maybe a fuse that is 1000 feet in diameter may work. Probably all the copper in the world would be needed to make the fuse. I doubt that even Bill Gates could buy one.
Someone with a better calculator needs to do the math. I am waiting for the video showing it measuring 1.21 GW.
Or you have to pay a lot to get them from the one person in the world who is sitting on a stash of genuine parts
Yes. In this case the parts were available, but at an exorbitant price. EUi were not going to eat that.
Thanks Dave for clarifying that. I will point to your post here every time, when I'll see that somebody is asking the same or similar.
Dave
What brand and type of fuse is in it, that enables it to handle readings in the 121GW range? You’ll be supplying extra fuses for it? Leads/probes?
Shorter answer: No, you can't have one yet. Go to the back of the queue and wait. :popcorn:
I’m a bit concerned/surprised with the initial reports that auto-ranging seems slow on the 121GW. I seem to remember Dave often pointed out if a DMM seemed slow in his reviews
I’m a bit concerned/surprised with the initial reports that auto-ranging seems slow on the 121GW. I seem to remember Dave often pointed out if a DMM seemed slow in his reviews
Just because he's a qualified multimeter critic doesn't mean his own meter has to be perfect. Maybe he's just trying to sell a decent meter and make some money while he's at it.
(He'd have to charge a lot more for the mythical 100% perfect meter. :popcorn: )
should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?
should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?
should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?
It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I’m a bit concerned/surprised with the initial reports that auto-ranging seems slow on the 121GW. I seem to remember Dave often pointed out if a DMM seemed slow in his reviews, and also the Brymen meters seems quite fast both in update-rate and auto-ranging so I was hoping the 121GW would at least have similar speed as the Brymen.I don't know about the 121GW, but I don't recall seeing anything faster than the Brymen meters I have used (I currently have a BM857) and the Fluke 179 I had.
I’m backer 924 btw, so I’ve yet to test anything myself. And my initial impression was that the 121GW did not really seem slow when Dave used one of the prototypes in his videos.
I’m a bit concerned/surprised with the initial reports that auto-ranging seems slow on the 121GW. I seem to remember Dave often pointed out if a DMM seemed slow in his reviews, and also the Brymen meters seems quite fast both in update-rate and auto-ranging so I was hoping the 121GW would at least have similar speed as the Brymen.I don't know about the 121GW, but I don't recall seeing anything faster than the Brymen meters I have used (I currently have a BM857) and the Fluke 179 I had.
I’m backer 924 btw, so I’ve yet to test anything myself. And my initial impression was that the 121GW did not really seem slow when Dave used one of the prototypes in his videos.
Keysight U1233A/U1273A are quite fast as well, in contrast to their new flagship model U1282A.
I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster.
Even better: Do a binary chop instead of a linear search (ie. start in the middle) :popcorn:
Presumably it's already doing fast sampling for the bargraph display - it should be using this for ranging.I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster. The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then. I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter. Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.
Looking at the video, that autorange time on ohms is totally unacceptable.
Fluke 87 takes a second.
Any more than this is simply broken.
Fluke 87 takes a second.
Any more than this is simply broken.
from my shop:
(ohms autoranging from open to short)
UT61e - half second, sometimes almost instantly
UT181a - 1.5 second
87V - 1 second
289 - 2 seconds
and AN8008 about four seconds, too slow.
Can someone please try the same (speed of autoranging) on capacitance range, for example from open to 20uF ?
Any meter that has sampling fast enough to do a bargraph display has no excuse to take longer then a second to autorangeFluke 87 takes a second.
Any more than this is simply broken.
That makes most of the multimeters on the market broken, except the manual range ones.
I think the firmware needs some serious love. Perhaps an opportunity for a GitHub open-source project once Dave releases the schematics?
I think the firmware needs some serious love. Perhaps an opportunity for a GitHub open-source project once Dave releases the schematics?
Hope current behavior is a bug, not a workaround around a hardware problem or limitation.
Hope current behavior is a bug, not a workaround around a hardware problem or limitation.
I'm really surprised this behavior wasn't discovered before release...Hopefully fixable in firmware...
it would be nice to see if the Bluetooth can be used the implement a simple UART link with SCPI.
There are many apparent experts in multimeter design in this thread.
Maybe there is a reason for it being the way it is?
Poor implementation of something as fundamental as autoranging suggests it's more of a software design issue than a bug.
it would be nice to see if the Bluetooth can be used the implement a simple UART link with SCPI.
AFAIK Dave said the BT chip manufacturer screwed BT firmware and UART mode disappeared. They couldn't replace it because at that point the meter got its expensive certificates, so they decided not to change it to avoid further delays. But may be hardware mods are still possible. Or a good library that would wrap nasty code in a good API.
it would be nice to see if the Bluetooth can be used the implement a simple UART link with SCPI.
AFAIK Dave said the BT chip manufacturer screwed BT firmware and UART mode disappeared. They couldn't replace it because at that point the meter got its expensive certificates, so they decided not to change it to avoid further delays. But may be hardware mods are still possible. Or a good library that would wrap nasty code in a good API.
Bluetooth LE does not have serial UART capability. We tried workaround to implement this but it wasn't possible so far as we could find.
The module is using the Bluegiga Cable Replacement interface.
We have talked about using a matching module in a USB dongle and then formatting into a SCPI UART string. i.e. doing it with dedicated hardware. Maybe there is even an off-the-shelf dongle wiht the Bluegiga module that could be re-programmed to do this?
I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster. The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then. I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter. Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.
... trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing). For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some of these early test, I appreciate your efforts.
I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos.
I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos.
It was a pre-production unit and I had an impression that a lot of effort was put to make it clear that "it's not a final performance, do not judge product by those videos". So, sorry, I completely disagree with your comment "you knew what you were buying".
Apart from that, for obvious reasons people had some (imho reasonable) expectations. Because this is Dave, because he knows what he is doing, etc. Even though Dave told it several times that he is only supervising the project and not directly involved in development. It has EEVBlog brand on it, which people trust. Please stop saying "I told you it's a slow meter, watch my videos better next time". That's not nice, not productive and you are not involved in this product (I'm not offending, I'm expressing how it looks to me, sorry if I'm wrong).
Anyway, I personally want to keep the conversation technical. And for me the biggest questions are: 1) can community help somehow with the issues 2) what is next? Shall we wait for firmware updates or this is the final version of the product and no further improvements are to be expected?
Interesting that you quote a comment that I never seem to have made.
Scratch that. Looks like you've maybe got it backwards? Look at the permissions and number of downloads.I think that was caused by the Google App Store search. When I tried to search for EEVBLOG or 121GW yesterday, initially I got nothing and then with persistence, I got the non-EEVBLOG app only. I did not get the correct App in the search at all. Today I am getting both 121GW Apps with the same searches.
Joe, I think the point still stands that the current behavior is undesirable and should be improved if possible. Also, I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to have watched your videos or perused through a bunch of disperse forum threads to get a full picture of the meter. If you were simply coming from the Kickstarter campaign, you would have no idea about the current auto-ranging situation. Personally, I expected a comprehensive "review" of the meter from Dave himself and was surprised at the one short Kickstarter video he put out.While I am suggesting the information has been available for some time, based on several of these posts I doubt that everyone took the time to do their research. That responsibility is on the buyer.I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos.
It was a pre-production unit and I had an impression that a lot of effort was put to make it clear that "it's not a final performance, do not judge product by those videos". So, sorry, I completely disagree with your comment "you knew what you were buying".
Apart from that, for obvious reasons people had some (imho reasonable) expectations. Because this is Dave, because he knows what he is doing, etc. Even though Dave told it several times that he is only supervising the project and not directly involved in development. It has EEVBlog brand on it, which people trust. Please stop saying "I told you it's a slow meter, watch my videos better next time". That's not nice, not productive and you are not involved in this product (I'm not offending, I'm expressing how it looks to me, sorry if I'm wrong).
Anyway, I personally want to keep the conversation technical. And for me the biggest questions are: 1) can community help somehow with the issues 2) what is next? Shall we wait for firmware updates or this is the final version of the product and no further improvements are to be expected?
I am sure I have made several comments about the meter I looked at having been a prototype and that the final product may behave differently. That would almost go without saying but it did seem to still cause a fair amount of confusion. That said, if people were concerned about what they saw and did not follow up to make sure their concerns were addressed prior to ordering, who's fault is that?
Interesting that you quote a comment that I never seem to have made.
FYI, you said this in Reply #381 above.
Joe, I think the point still stands that the current behavior is undesirable and should be improved if possible. Also, I don't think it's reasonable to expect everyone to have watched your videos or perused through a bunch of disperse forum threads to get a full picture of the meter. If you were simply coming from the Kickstarter campaign, you would have no idea about the current auto-ranging situation. Personally, I expected a comprehensive "review" of the meter from Dave himself and was surprised at the one short Kickstarter video he put out.While I am suggesting the information has been available for some time, based on several of these posts I doubt that everyone took the time to do their research. That responsibility is on the buyer.I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos.
It was a pre-production unit and I had an impression that a lot of effort was put to make it clear that "it's not a final performance, do not judge product by those videos". So, sorry, I completely disagree with your comment "you knew what you were buying".
Apart from that, for obvious reasons people had some (imho reasonable) expectations. Because this is Dave, because he knows what he is doing, etc. Even though Dave told it several times that he is only supervising the project and not directly involved in development. It has EEVBlog brand on it, which people trust. Please stop saying "I told you it's a slow meter, watch my videos better next time". That's not nice, not productive and you are not involved in this product (I'm not offending, I'm expressing how it looks to me, sorry if I'm wrong).
Anyway, I personally want to keep the conversation technical. And for me the biggest questions are: 1) can community help somehow with the issues 2) what is next? Shall we wait for firmware updates or this is the final version of the product and no further improvements are to be expected?
I am sure I have made several comments about the meter I looked at having been a prototype and that the final product may behave differently. That would almost go without saying but it did seem to still cause a fair amount of confusion. That said, if people were concerned about what they saw and did not follow up to make sure their concerns were addressed prior to ordering, who's fault is that?
On the issue of feedback and follow-up, I don't think it was ever publicly elicited from members of the forum or the community at large prior to launch.
fyi:I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster. The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then. I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter. Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.
There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters. It's getting hard to know where to post. Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here.
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos. I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow. :-// Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?
There may have been a way to overcome it as people have suggested but it seems like if it were an easy fix, it would have been addressed prior to the release. Maybe Dave will comment on it.
I am looking forward to seeing reviews of the more complex features, for example reading the power of a 110/220 LED bulb, showing the BT, trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing). For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some of these early test, I appreciate your efforts.
I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster. The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then. I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter. Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.
There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters. It's getting hard to know where to post. Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here.
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos. I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow. :-// Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?
Sorry but I am not seeing the quoted text. :-//
There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters. It's getting hard to know where to post. Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here.
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos. I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow. :-// Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?
There may have been a way to overcome it as people have suggested but it seems like if it were an easy fix, it would have been addressed prior to the release. Maybe Dave will comment on it.
I am looking forward to seeing reviews of the more complex features, for example reading the power of a 110/220 LED bulb, showing the BT, trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing). For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some of these early test, I appreciate your efforts.
The quote was "you knew what you were buying".Sorry but I am not seeing the quoted text. :-//
Here:There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters. It's getting hard to know where to post. Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here.
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos. I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow. :-// Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?
There may have been a way to overcome it as people have suggested but it seems like if it were an easy fix, it would have been addressed prior to the release. Maybe Dave will comment on it.
I am looking forward to seeing reviews of the more complex features, for example reading the power of a 110/220 LED bulb, showing the BT, trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing). For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some of these early test, I appreciate your efforts.
The quote was "you knew what you were buying".
I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster. The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then. I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter. Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.
There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters. It's getting hard to know where to post. Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here.
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos. I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow. :-// Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?
You seem to be referring to this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-a-new-handheld-multimeter-with-fast-autorange-keysight-u1282a/msg1014173/#msg1014173 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/looking-for-a-new-handheld-multimeter-with-fast-autorange-keysight-u1282a/msg1014173/#msg1014173)
But I can't find where the 121GW is ever mentioned or that it had the same issues as U1282A.
Could you please provide a link to where it was "discussed some time ago".
I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos. I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow. :-// Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?
The quote was "you knew what you were buying".
Oh, that. But I think that was a paraphrase of "Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?"
My comment of "very slow" was referring to how Dave described the U1282A that was based on the same front end chip set that the 121GW was based on. Again, I am only pointing out that there was data available. Bread crumbs perhaps.
My comment of "very slow" was referring to how Dave described the U1282A that was based on the same front end chip set that the 121GW was based on. Again, I am only pointing out that there was data available. Bread crumbs perhaps.
I don't know, since I don't have one yet.
But I don't really think I would be that bothered. If I only had one resistor to test, I can wait 7 seconds. If I had a batch to test, I would put the meter in manual range mode first, or I would use another meter.
Since there is the option for firmware updates, it might be improved later anyway.
I guess everything is relative but here it seemed slower than I was expecting from a meter with 5 updates/sec.should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?It didn't seem slow when I watched someone test it.
I had wondered if it could not run in a low res mode then switch to high res to get it to lock in faster. The 121GW uses the same front end chipset used in another meter that Dave had reviewed and I though the settling time was discussed back then. I would guess some of the people who bought one have more than one meter. Maybe others will do a side by side comparison to give you a better idea how it compares.
There are more threads on the 121GW than there are meters. It's getting hard to know where to post. Because I do not view the slow autorange as a bug, I'll will keep my comments here.
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange. I thought we had discussed this some time ago and I certainly showed it in a few of my videos. I thought I had even made a comment about them using a chip set that Dave had previously commented on it being slow. :-// Did people not understand what VERY SLOW meant?
There may have been a way to overcome it as people have suggested but it seems like if it were an easy fix, it would have been addressed prior to the release. Maybe Dave will comment on it.
I am looking forward to seeing reviews of the more complex features, for example reading the power of a 110/220 LED bulb, showing the BT, trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing). For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some of these early test, I appreciate your efforts.
Anyway, I personally want to keep the conversation technical. And for me the biggest questions are: 1) can community help somehow with the issues
2) what is next? Shall we wait for firmware updates or this is the final version of the product and no further improvements are to be expected?
The firmware will get refined.Not that I don't appreciate your continuous efforts, but make sure to get some rest and not spend too much time dealing with the forums or customer support. Taking some distance from your day to day affairs is invaluable!
If you have an issue then report it in the thread for this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-121gw-multimeter-issues/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/eevblog-121gw-multimeter-issues/)
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange.
(*) It appears to do better than 0.5% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.Did you mean 0.05% ?
(*) It appears to do better than 0.5% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.Did you mean 0.05% ?
Have you taken a browse through it to get an impression of if it's well structured, commented etc. or just a spaghetti mess ?Anyway, I personally want to keep the conversation technical. And for me the biggest questions are: 1) can community help somehow with the issues
Apart form reporting issues, no they cannot. UEi are in control of the firmware.
I have the actual firmware but we have not even tried to compile it.
FYI the U1282A which uses the same chipset auto ranges from OL to short in 2.5 to 3 seconds(still rather slow) so a speed increase with new firmware may be possible.
Me either, but I am getting a certain amount of shadenfreude from the wails of anguish in these threads. :popcorn:
A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.
Reality check: It's mostly an off-the-shelf, 0.05% meter*. It's not a meter designed by Dave, it's not been built to his specifications.
It's a good meter for the money. It's safe, it has data logging, it has Bluetooth, it has a bunch of features that not many other meters in this class have, eg. display of power. These extra features are the reason you'd buy this meter, IMHO.
It doesn't have any of the fancy laser-trimmed resistors, etc., that make Flukes what they are. If it was a Fluke 87 for half the money but with loads more features then we'd have known about this brand a long time ago.LOL. I somehow don't get the feeling we will see the same level of quality from UEI as Fluke. History my prove me wrong.
(*) It appears to do better than 0.05% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.
I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.This is the reason for unbiased reviews. The meter has a lot of features and minimum standards will mean something different depending who you ask. Even if Dave felt uncomfortable with producing a review because of the bias (perceived or otherwise), I was hoping he would send a few off to the large YT channels to review before offering them. I thought the guy that offered that high speed camera had the right idea. Sure there were sites that it was wasted on but a few sites really took the time to show it off. I think that paid off.
I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.
A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.
The point I was making is that you'd expect that Dave, would tell the manufacturer that it needs to meet certain minimum standards.I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.This is the reason for unbiased reviews. The meter has a lot of features and minimum standards will mean something different depending who you ask. Even if Dave felt uncomfortable with producing a review because of the bias (perceived or otherwise), I was hoping he would send a few off to the large YT channels to review before offering them. I thought the guy that offered that high speed camera had the right idea. Sure there were sites that it was wasted on but a few sites really took the time to show it off. I think that paid off.
I think we are just starting to scratch the surface on the UEI meter. Give it a few months. I did go back and look at my Gossen BTW doing a side by side comparison and I would say the settling time is a wash between the two. The Gossen is ever so slightly faster (half second or so).
Risks and challenges
Like all hardware projects, hardware is hard, and "sh!t happens".
Do we know the actual update rate on the bargraph? the manual only states “fast updating" and then there is the “5 times per second nominal”.
I don't understand the big surprise about the slow autorange.
Me either, but I am getting a certain amount of shadenfreude from the wails of anguish in these threads. :popcorn:
A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.
Reality check: It's mostly an off-the-shelf, 0.05% meter*. It's not a meter designed by Dave, it's not been built to his specifications.
It's a good meter for the money. It's safe, it has data logging, it has Bluetooth, it has a bunch of features that not many other meters in this class have, eg. display of power. These extra features are the reason you'd buy this meter, IMHO.
It doesn't have any of the fancy laser-trimmed resistors, etc., that make Flukes what they are. If it was a Fluke 87 for half the money but with loads more features then we'd have known about this brand a long time ago.
(*) It appears to do better than 0.05% in tests but you'd have no right to complain if it didn't.
should I take your statement as a confirmation that the 121GW is indeed slow?
I wouldn't know.
A whole load of people seem to have bought this meter without watching any of the videos Dave/joe has been posting or reading any of the threads on what it is or where it comes from. I guess that's the EEVBLOG effect in action.
The point I was making is that you'd expect that Dave, would tell the manufacturer that it needs to meet certain minimum standards.I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.This is the reason for unbiased reviews. The meter has a lot of features and minimum standards will mean something different depending who you ask. Even if Dave felt uncomfortable with producing a review because of the bias (perceived or otherwise), I was hoping he would send a few off to the large YT channels to review before offering them. I thought the guy that offered that high speed camera had the right idea. Sure there were sites that it was wasted on but a few sites really took the time to show it off. I think that paid off.
I think we are just starting to scratch the surface on the UEI meter. Give it a few months. I did go back and look at my Gossen BTW doing a side by side comparison and I would say the settling time is a wash between the two. The Gossen is ever so slightly faster (half second or so).
It has features that make it unique, but if it's inadequate in other areas, it lessens its value as a general-purpose meter that improves upon the competition and becomes more of a niche instrument that only gets used when the unique features are needed
Do we know the actual update rate on the bargraph? the manual only states “fast updating" and then there is the “5 times per second nominal”.Could we get a figure or estimate on the bargraph update speed? (or is this info also >hidden< in some now deleted videos or comments thread)
Would a 7 sec autorange meet anyone's minimum standards ?The point I was making is that you'd expect that Dave, would tell the manufacturer that it needs to meet certain minimum standards.I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.This is the reason for unbiased reviews. The meter has a lot of features and minimum standards will mean something different depending who you ask. Even if Dave felt uncomfortable with producing a review because of the bias (perceived or otherwise), I was hoping he would send a few off to the large YT channels to review before offering them. I thought the guy that offered that high speed camera had the right idea. Sure there were sites that it was wasted on but a few sites really took the time to show it off. I think that paid off.
I think we are just starting to scratch the surface on the UEI meter. Give it a few months. I did go back and look at my Gossen BTW doing a side by side comparison and I would say the settling time is a wash between the two. The Gossen is ever so slightly faster (half second or so).
It has features that make it unique, but if it's inadequate in other areas, it lessens its value as a general-purpose meter that improves upon the competition and becomes more of a niche instrument that only gets used when the unique features are needed
I agree with you and assume that the time required the the meter to settle was considered to meet their minimum standards. However, that does not mean it meets your minimum standards.
I assume it met Gossen's minimum as well as again, the one I have is on par with the UEI. I am not suggesting that I wouldn't want a meter that could auto range faster but the speed of the UEI would not prevent me from using it. For what you use it for, it seems this is not be the case. There are a lot of products out there and there is certainly nothing wrong with finding one that suits you.Would a 7 sec autorange meet anyone's minimum standards ?The point I was making is that you'd expect that Dave, would tell the manufacturer that it needs to meet certain minimum standards.I think it's quite reasonable to expect a meter with the EEVBLOG branding on it to meet certain minimum standards, like acceptable autorange speed.This is the reason for unbiased reviews. The meter has a lot of features and minimum standards will mean something different depending who you ask. Even if Dave felt uncomfortable with producing a review because of the bias (perceived or otherwise), I was hoping he would send a few off to the large YT channels to review before offering them. I thought the guy that offered that high speed camera had the right idea. Sure there were sites that it was wasted on but a few sites really took the time to show it off. I think that paid off.
I think we are just starting to scratch the surface on the UEI meter. Give it a few months. I did go back and look at my Gossen BTW doing a side by side comparison and I would say the settling time is a wash between the two. The Gossen is ever so slightly faster (half second or so).
It has features that make it unique, but if it's inadequate in other areas, it lessens its value as a general-purpose meter that improves upon the competition and becomes more of a niche instrument that only gets used when the unique features are needed
I agree with you and assume that the time required the the meter to settle was considered to meet their minimum standards. However, that does not mean it meets your minimum standards.
Do we know the actual update rate on the bargraph? the manual only states “fast updating" and then there is the “5 times per second nominal”.Could we get a figure or estimate on the bargraph update speed? (or is this info also >hidden< in some now deleted videos or comments thread)
I read the manual and you appear correct. I had made a video showing the speed of the prototype compared with my BM869s and UT181A. These are some of the fastest ones I have come across. I can tell you that the prototype was not as fast but still impressive. I could make that clip public but would rather someone run the released version instead as the results may be different.
Would a 7 sec autorange meet anyone's minimum standards ?
Would a 7 sec autorange meet anyone's minimum standards ?
And does REPEATING the same point 8-10 times on different threads with ZERO hands on use make you useful in the discussion or just LOUD?
Would a 7 sec autorange meet anyone's minimum standards ?
And does REPEATING the same point 8-10 times on different threads with ZERO hands on use make you useful in the discussion or just LOUD?
Not his fault we have multiple threads talking about the same thing, and his comment is SPOT on, don't need to own one to make that observation.
A short clip comparing the autorange speed of some portable DMMs I have. Sorry about the shaking; I did not have my tripod with me. Ah, the video has no audio.
U1273A 0-5vdc = 1.6 Sec 0-30vdc = 1.5 Sec 0-89vac = 2.3 sec 0 ohms = 1.6 sec & 1.8,sec 20Kohms = 0.9 sec & 0.8 sec U1282A 0-5vdc = 0.7 Sec 0-30vdc = 2.5 Sec 0-89vac = 4.5 sec 0 ohms = 3.5 sec & 3.6 sec 20Kohms = 2.2 sec & 2.2 sec 121GW 0 ohms = 7.4 sec |
I didn't, as at 40u/s the number of counts is reduced by tenfold, which turns it into an oversized UT136C. :-DDA short clip comparing the autorange speed of some portable DMMs I have. Sorry about the shaking; I did not have my tripod with me. Ah, the video has no audio.
Did you try the u1282a in both the 9 and 40 updates per second modes?
And does REPEATING the same point 8-10 times on different threads with ZERO hands on use make you useful in the discussion or just LOUD?
But to keep harping on that same point?? It seems more about trying to whip up some sort of online frenzy about a point that will take a little time to fix in firmware, bleating incessantly about it won't make it magically fixed or even happen sooner.
I am looking forward to seeing reviews of the more complex features, for example reading the power of a 110/220 LED bulb, showing the BT, trying some long term data logging to the memory card (over night sort of thing). For those of you who have received their meters and have taken the time to run some of these early test, I appreciate your efforts.
I tried the SD card data logging overnight with 5V and 50V.Thanks!! This is very good news. After hearing about the VA, I was starting to wonder.
....
I am looking forward to get the meter in a month or two and check it out (I will do a review). The main reasons I got the meter was the low burden voltage and the 15V diode mode. I wonder if the VA mode is useful, I will probably continue to use my meter with a real W mode.
I tried the SD card data logging overnight with 5V and 50V.Thanks!! This is very good news. After hearing about the VA, I was starting to wonder.
....
I'm looking forward to your review.
Thanks for all your other reviews on your website. It's my first stop whenever I need a new battery or charger. :-)
I'm looking forward to your review.
Thanks for all your other reviews on your website. It's my first stop whenever I need a new battery or charger. :-)
I also hope to make the multimeter reviews useful for selecting a meter, but I need more for that, at the moment there is only 18 reviews.
I am looking forward to get the meter in a month or two and check it out (I will do a review).
HKJ - something that would help me and maybe others - put a link to your great website in your profile so it shows up every time you write something
put a link to your great website in your profile so it shows up every time you write something. Every time you write something, I try to find it and fail. (also I want to add it to #3).
Beep beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....
Skip to 6min 32sec
youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKvyoZa5J8Q&t=6m32s)
Click the globe to the left
Beep beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep!
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD....
Skip to 6min 32sec
youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKvyoZa5J8Q&t=6m32s)
Hey, at least that one doesn't play music at you!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2em32KNwry0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2em32KNwry0)
Skip to 1min 15sec
Wait, the 121GW can't play music can it?? I know my UT90A could. :-DDThat seems to be the most critical issue found in 121GW so far.. :-DD
Do you want it to play mp3 from the sd card lolll
..Well the Micsig tablet scopes can play videos, but I suspect the 121GW's processor doesn't have the power to decode MP3s. WAVs, maybe..Do you want it to play mp3 from the sd card lolll
Yes I think this a good feature for a meter.
I agree. Dave could start the EEVTunes store to buy your favorite music.Do you want it to play mp3 from the sd card lolllYes I think this a good feature for a meter.
..Well the Micsig tablet scopes can play videos, but I suspect the 121GW's processor doesn't have the power to decode MP3s. WAVs, maybe..Do you want it to play mp3 from the sd card lolll
Yes I think this a good feature for a meter.
If I remember correctly there's a 32-bit ARM inside it. Most of those can decode MP3s, even without an FPU. Talking about low-bitrate here.
My opinion is that, if this thing lands in enough hands, even without source code and firmware, some people will manage to built a custom firmware for it. It has happened to every thing that was affordable and/or appealing. Either that, or something better, cheaper and more hackable comes along.
If folks want a MP3 player plus a multimeter, why not buy a mooshimeter instead? :-DDI think Scott said he played with one.
Yes, I did buy one, ran it in some testing and well. I only review and do videos on products I keep, like and woild recomend to others. It went back.If folks want a MP3 player plus a multimeter, why not buy a mooshimeter instead? :-DDI think Scott said he played with one.
There is no "THE" STM32 chip.Yes, I’m aware their are multiple variations of the chip, and I wasn’t about to list them all.
There are literally hundreds of variations.
The chip in the x9D+ is a STM32F205
I'm not sure what the chip in the 121GW is, but I doubt it is that fast.
I'm not sure what the chip in the 121GW is, but I doubt it is that fast.From the manual, it's a STM32L152D (Cortex-M3, 33Mhz max).
• Circuit breakers to trip prematurely
• Bus bars and electrical panels to vibrate
Just a little more info on AC+DC measurement from Greenlee DM-860A (which is a rebadged Brymen BM869S) user manual.You could have used Mathjax... :)
AC + DC True RMS
AC + DC true RMS calculates both of the AC and DC components given by the expression
(...)
\( \sqrt{ V_{ACrms}^2 + V_{DC}^2} \)
Would a 7 sec autorange meet anyone's minimum standards ?
And does REPEATING the same point 8-10 times on different threads with ZERO hands on use make you useful in the discussion or just LOUD?
Not his fault we have multiple threads talking about the same thing, and his comment is SPOT on, don't need to own one to make that observation.
But to keep harping on that same point?? It seems more about trying to whip up some sort of online frenzy about a point that will take a little time to fix in firmware, bleating incessantly about it won't make it magically fixed or even happen sooner.
In my opinion Mike just asked a valid question.
It seems to me that YOU are the one that's bleating.
3db
Mike and others with NO first hand use have prattled on and attacked the product and Dave's thoughts and actions and repeated those sentiments and statements in multiple posts. Some of these comments made seem to be more about whipping up a storm than looking for a solution.
While certainly not perfect Dave deserves the decency of some time with his family for a start then some time to go back to the manufacturer to sort out some of the issues then let us know what they have found and a path forward to improve the meter.
As I mentioned in another thread, this is most probably coming from the unrealistic and unfulfilled expectation (=frustration) of a "close to perfection" product that had an unparalleled transparent development process. It is a new product and issues like these are bound to happen.Mike and others with NO first hand use have prattled on and attacked the product and Dave's thoughts and actions and repeated those sentiments and statements in multiple posts. Some of these comments made seem to be more about whipping up a storm than looking for a solution.
While certainly not perfect Dave deserves the decency of some time with his family for a start then some time to go back to the manufacturer to sort out some of the issues then let us know what they have found and a path forward to improve the meter.
Sorry to intervene, but you are either unique among people or just biased in this case. People are not thinking of the Amazon delivery men/women's families when Christmas approaches nor will they investigate why it takes time for a reseller to solve their issues - thinking they must be on vacation. Maybe not the case here, but not sure where the line is drawn between customers and enthusiasts.
I felt bad about dragging the hotel manager out from a family outing on the 24th of December - but not my fault if there is only one hotel manager who also managed to lock me out of my room. Again, not the case here, but I think there should be a distinction between expectations and sentiments.
While I'm sure it will be [somehow] settled, it seems like a s*storm from both sides, without even a single quote from Dave. Not sure where all this rage is coming from or going to...
I guess polarized opinions means a successful product or campaign, regardless of the results.
As I mentioned in another thread, this is most probably coming from the unrealistic and unfulfilled expectation (=frustration) of a "close to perfection" product that had an unparalleled transparent development process. It is a new product and issues like these are bound to happen.
If you find issues like that, you start wondering, what else the firmware the guys will probably have messed up.Exactly.
Mike and others with NO first hand use have prattled on and attacked the product and Dave's thoughts and actions and repeated those sentiments and statements in multiple posts. Some of these comments made seem to be more about whipping up a storm than looking for a solution.
While certainly not perfect Dave deserves the decency of some time with his family for a start then some time to go back to the manufacturer to sort out some of the issues then let us know what they have found and a path forward to improve the meter.
Sorry to intervene, but you are either unique among people or just biased in this case. People are not thinking of the Amazon delivery men/women's families when Christmas approaches nor will they investigate why it takes time for a reseller to solve their issues - thinking they must be on vacation. Maybe not the case here, but not sure where the line is drawn between customers and enthusiasts.
I felt bad about dragging the hotel manager out from a family outing on the 24th of December - but not my fault if there is only one hotel manager who also managed to lock me out of my room. Again, not the case here, but I think there should be a distinction between expectations and sentiments.
While I'm sure it will be [somehow] settled, it seems like a s*storm from both sides, without even a single quote from Dave. Not sure where all this rage is coming from or going to...
I guess polarized opinions means a successful product or campaign, regardless of the results.
You need to remember this is a Kickstarter. It is very different to buying a finished product from Amazon, or paying a hotel for accommodation.
You need to remember this is a Kickstarter. It is very different to buying a finished product from Amazon, or paying a hotel for accommodation.It's not reasonable to compare with typical Kickstarters - it's a product designed and manufactured by an experienced test equipment company, with significant input from someone with considerable expertise in the field. The KS wasn't started until it was pretty much ready to go.
Only a fraction of people will use datalogging, while continuity is the third pillar of a DMM. That alone will draw criticism in much larger numbers, and the feedback here reflects that.As I mentioned in another thread, this is most probably coming from the unrealistic and unfulfilled expectation (=frustration) of a "close to perfection" product that had an unparalleled transparent development process. It is a new product and issues like these are bound to happen.
Yes of course. But I saw enough of Daves reviews to be able to imagine what he would have said about the meter.
What I am wondering about, is that the felt majority of posts is about the ohm autoranging speed and other cosmetic deficiencies. Wtf? This is the smallest of the problems the meter has and I don't get why everybody seems so excited about this problem.
As long as there aren't any underlying hardware issues, hopefully things will get fixed in due course.
You need to remember this is a Kickstarter. It is very different to buying a finished product from Amazon, or paying a hotel for accommodation.It's not reasonable to compare with typical Kickstarters - it's a product designed and manufactured by an experienced test equipment company, with significant input from someone with considerable expertise in the field. The KS wasn't started until it was pretty much ready to go.
I'm pretty sure its manufactured and assembled in South Korea. Can anyone confirm this?
Loosy goosy range switch:
https://youtu.be/7E2Pjcogrho?t=5m28s (https://youtu.be/7E2Pjcogrho?t=5m28s)
And that was April 2017, kinda disappointing it didn't 'get worked on'. :-\
Loosy goosy range switch:
https://youtu.be/7E2Pjcogrho?t=5m28s
And that was April 2017, kinda disappointing it didn't 'get worked on'. :-\
What I am wondering about, is that the felt majority of posts is about the ohm autoranging speed and other cosmetic deficiencies.
What I am wondering about, is that the felt majority of posts is about the ohm autoranging speed and other cosmetic deficiencies.
Autoranging speed is not a cosmetic problem (for those who actually use the meter). Same for beeper, etc, these are significant usability flaws. At least for me. I think most people underrate comfort and productivity of tools. I'm glad you consider this a "minor annoyance". But there are other opinions on this.
It did.
That video is from April 2016, not 2017, see the date code on the back, that video wasn't released until much later. It was the first prototype that used a PIC24 processor. It was not the final range switch.
We have had no problems with the range switch since then. I'm surprised to hear about any issues to do with the range switch.
Alright, we get it. :horse:What I am wondering about, is that the felt majority of posts is about the ohm autoranging speed and other cosmetic deficiencies.
Autoranging speed is not a cosmetic problem (for those who actually use the meter). Same for beeper, etc, these are significant usability flaws. At least for me. I think most people underrate comfort and productivity of tools. I'm glad you consider this a "minor annoyance". But there are other opinions on this.
No need to post on this subject any more until Dave officially says "fixed/not fixable". :horse: :horse:
At the risk of being censored, we did discuss problems with the switch. I wonder with it now being intermittent if they did not reduce the spring pressure.Loosy goosy range switch:
https://youtu.be/7E2Pjcogrho?t=5m28s
And that was April 2017, kinda disappointing it didn't 'get worked on'. :-\
It did.
That video is from April 2016, not 2017, see the date code on the back, that video wasn't released until much later. It was the first prototype that used a PIC24 processor. It was not the final range switch.
We have had no problems with the range switch since then. I'm surprised to hear about any issues to do with the range switch.
It did.
That video is from April 2016, not 2017, see the date code on the back, that video wasn't released until much later. It was the first prototype that used a PIC24 processor. It was not the final range switch.
We have had no problems with the range switch since then. I'm surprised to hear about any issues to do with the range switch.
From the video it is hard to compare. But here is a video of my range switch dancing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD9ue0OjQRk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD9ue0OjQRk)
At the risk of being censored, we did discuss problems with the switch. I wonder with it now being intermittent if they did not reduce the spring pressure.
I assume you pulled my post when you bold texted me. Maybe you have a different definition of censorship. Really no matter. I certainly understand that it is your site and you are free to do as you wish with it.At the risk of being censored, we did discuss problems with the switch. I wonder with it now being intermittent if they did not reduce the spring pressure.
Joe, I am not censoring anyone. I didn't want people constantly discussing stuff in the thread that is only for reporting and confirming issues.
Having an "issues" thread that's a 30 page long discussion kinda make it hard to find the issues for all involved...
I hope you can understand that.
And yes we improved the switch wear issue after you reported it, but the pre-production units that came after that were fine, and we have never had this "wobble" or intermittent contact issue. Not even the first "wobbly" prototype back in April 2016 had intermittent contacts. This seems to be a new issue.
"We have had no problems with the range switch since then.was not entirely true. I will say that I never saw the wobble on the prototype. If people watch the video where I had repaired it, I ran it outside the case. The rotating spring contact holder what held in place by its locking barbs where it fits through the board. Even then I don't think it was intermittent. This is why I wonder if they had loosened the tension maybe to help reduce the wear. If so, maybe they went too far with it. Hard to say but it would be easy enough to compare them at some point. With you unboxing a fair number of them to test, I would think if there was a major problem you would have come across it.
I assume you pulled my post when you bold texted me. Maybe you have a different definition of censorship. Really no matter. I certainly understand that it is your site and you are free to do as you wish with it.
On the switch, I just wanted to be clear that your commentQuote"We have had no problems with the range switch since then.was not entirely true. I will say that I never saw the wobble on the prototype. If people watch the video where I had repaired it, I ran it outside the case. The rotating spring contact holder what held in place by its locking barbs where it fits through the board. Even then I don't think it was intermittent. This is why I wonder if they had loosened the tension maybe to help reduce the wear. If so, maybe they went too far with it. Hard to say but it would be easy enough to compare them at some point. With you unboxing a fair number of them to test, I would think if there was a major problem you would have come across it.
Dave has confirmed the switch wobble is causing an issue, confirmed on the "Issues" thread.
I hope Dave will update us all on the switch and firmware solutions as soon as he has an idea, (discussed with UEi) the course of action to take.
I deleted a few non-relevant posts in the other thread trying to tidy it up, they contained nothing of importance.
I am NOT censoring anyone, say whatever you want in this thread or the main discussion thread, but PLEASE don't discuss things in the Issues thread, is that too much to ask?
I am trying to keep the Issues thread clean so that it contains a reasonably concise list of the issues and confirmations. UEi are reading this thread, I do not want them (and us) to have to look through a hundred page thread to reference the issues.QuoteOn the switch, I just wanted to be clear that your commentQuote"We have had no problems with the range switch since then.was not entirely true. I will say that I never saw the wobble on the prototype. If people watch the video where I had repaired it, I ran it outside the case. The rotating spring contact holder what held in place by its locking barbs where it fits through the board. Even then I don't think it was intermittent. This is why I wonder if they had loosened the tension maybe to help reduce the wear. If so, maybe they went too far with it. Hard to say but it would be easy enough to compare them at some point. With you unboxing a fair number of them to test, I would think if there was a major problem you would have come across it.
I'll repeat again, we had several more revisions after your unit, and none of them had any issues with the switch. This seems to be an entirely new issue in the production units.
It was the first prototype that used a PIC24 processor. It was not the final range switch. We have had no problems with the range switch since then. I'm surprised to hear about any issues to do with the range switch.
"to delete (a word or passage of text) in one's capacity as a censor."
QuoteIt was the first prototype that used a PIC24 processor. It was not the final range switch. We have had no problems with the range switch since then. I'm surprised to hear about any issues to do with the range switch.is not true. The meter I have is certainly post PIC24 and there are problems with the switch design. That's all I am saying. I would have no way to know what changes they made after this revision or what testing they performed to validate it. While I would like to assume they have done their due diligence, it does seem that there are still problems with it.
No problems means no problems. I can believe there were no wobble or intermittent contact problems but there were certainly other problems relating to the switch after the PIC24."to delete (a word or passage of text) in one's capacity as a censor."
Please get over it.QuoteQuoteIt was the first prototype that used a PIC24 processor. It was not the final range switch. We have had no problems with the range switch since then. I'm surprised to hear about any issues to do with the range switch.is not true. The meter I have is certainly post PIC24 and there are problems with the switch design. That's all I am saying. I would have no way to know what changes they made after this revision or what testing they performed to validate it. While I would like to assume they have done their due diligence, it does seem that there are still problems with it.
How can you state this is not true? you have no knowledge of this.
You have not seen the several revisions of meter after your unit.
I'm telling you that there was nothing wrong with these meters in regards to wobble intermittent contact, and you even admitted yourself that your unit had no such issues. The issue you had with the switch had nothing to do with the "wobble" or intermittent contact.
I'll state again for the last time, this is a new issue that has only appeared on the production units.
Dave we need you to communicate a reassurance that hardware and firmware will be fixed.
Dave we need you to communicate a reassurance that hardware and firmware will be fixed.
Hardware and firmware will be fixed, that is my intention.
But obviously this it outside of my personal physical control though, I am reliant upon the manufacturer to investigate and fix the issues.
And the 121GW is after all a production model now so it deserves to be scrutinized, especially with problems like the wobbly selector switch that was already thought (supposed) to have been fixed. Seems appropriate to make a video about it - taking that switch assembly apart.