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Need help! Test bench equipment recommendations. $2k+ budget
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geneonline:

--- Quote from: tautech on April 01, 2022, 03:08:48 am ---geneonline
You will love the 2kX+ as many others here do and I highly recommend you get a mouse for it despite it having a touch display and physical controls a mouse speeds usage and provide a better all-round experience with all these recent Siglent models.
Latest SDS6000A scopes are shipped with a wireless mouse for exactly the same reasons and as they have a 12" display it saves lots of time rather than chase around the display with a finger.

--- End quote ---
Great tip! There is a good number of peripherals laying around for use.  Looking forward to unboxing and exploring everything it can do! I'll be sufficiently busy with that for quiet a while.

--- Quote ---SPD3303X-E are certainly not your usual PSU design however we sell a good few each year and have little problem with them. That their 3 channels are all properly isolated from one another and mains ground allows multiple units to be connected in series to a rated max of 500V from mains GND.

--- End quote ---
Is there a way to have all devices linked/controlled in a single app? Example, logging, screen recording, and controlling in one window? Would like to synchronize tests  referencing back at a given time. Does every device needs their own software? Is it preferable to connect with a network switch or usb in your experience?
kcbrown:
Just a followup on the encoder thing.  I verified directly that the encoders Siglent is using for the vertical and horizontal scaling are indeed reversed in their outputs from the standard.

Here's the encoders I'm using: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/652-PEC12R-4220F-S24

And here's the datasheet for it: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/54/PEC12R-777795.pdf

Note that the pinout shows, with the 3 quadrature output pins (A, common, and B) at the bottom, and when viewed from above, A on the left, common on center, and B on the right.

With common grounded and A and B connected through pull-up resistors to power, the output of A will lead the output of B when turned clockwise, and will lag when turned counterclockwise.

The encoder Siglent is using generates output that is the reverse: A will lag B when turned clockwise, and will lead B when turned counterclockwise.  In essence, this means that Siglent's encoders have B on the left and A on the right, when the encoder is viewed as described above.

Why in the world Siglent would ever use encoders that have reversed signal pins is quite beyond me.  I have no idea how to find good replacements for them.  The parametric search Mouser provides doesn't even give an option to search for such a thing, and neither does DigiKey.

The encoders Siglent is using seem to be made by LJV: https://www.ibselectronics.com/ibsstore/datasheet/4425676.pdf.  In looking at them and feeling them in comparison with the Bourns encoders, they seem to be rather high quality, with a nice feel to them overall.

The datasheet shows nothing about the relative phase of the encoded signals.   The encoders appear to be something like the RE1103XC1-H01 (based on the dimensions, "X" is going to be "F", for 7mm).  The datasheet doesn't describe how to be more specific than that.  It's a 20-position encoder.

Obviously I had to hook the encoders up to a scope with the appropriate pull-up resistors (common went to ground) in order to see the output of the signals they would generate (the irony of using my SDS-2104X+ to view the signals generated by the Siglent encoders that were previously installed in that very scope is not lost on me).  I performed this exercise for the purpose of comparing how the phases worked in the Siglent encoders compared with the Bourns encoders I replaced them with, and found the above.  But here's the interesting thing: I can't find anything wrong with these encoders.

Whatever was going on with my scope before, it was not the fault of the encoders.  That implies either a broken solder joint that I somehow missed, or the connections between the encoder board and the rest of the scope were somehow intermittent.

That, of course, means that I can solve the directionality issue by putting the original encoders back into service.  That's likely what I'll do.

Meanwhile, I'm halfway tempted to replace the remaining two smooth encoders with these Bourns detented encoders, because it's really nice to be able to move the encoder with precision, and to easily go from the current value to the next value definitively.  But it's also nice to be able to move the horizontal and vertical positions fluidly, and that kind of precision isn't quite as useful for those as it is for the trigger position (or for pretty much anything controlled by the multifunction knob).


Regardless of what I end up doing, this wound up being a worthwhile, though frustrating, exercise.
geneonline:

--- Quote from: kcbrown on April 01, 2022, 04:10:02 am ---Just a followup on the encoder thing.  I verified directly that the encoders Siglent is using for the vertical and horizontal scaling are indeed reversed in their outputs from the standard.

Here's the encoders I'm using: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/652-PEC12R-4220F-S24

And here's the datasheet for it: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/54/PEC12R-777795.pdf

Note that the pinout shows, with the 3 quadrature output pins (A, common, and B) at the bottom, and when viewed from above, A on the left, common on center, and B on the right.

With common grounded and A and B connected through pull-up resistors to power, the output of A will lead the output of B when turned clockwise, and will lag when turned counterclockwise.

The encoder Siglent is using generates output that is the reverse: A will lag B when turned clockwise, and will lead B when turned counterclockwise.  In essence, this means that Siglent's encoders have B on the left and A on the right, when the encoder is viewed as described above.

Why in the world Siglent would ever use encoders that have reversed signal pins is quite beyond me.  I have no idea how to find good replacements for them.  The parametric search Mouser provides doesn't even give an option to search for such a thing, and neither does DigiKey.

The encoders Siglent is using seem to be made by LJV: https://www.ibselectronics.com/ibsstore/datasheet/4425676.pdf.  In looking at them and feeling them in comparison with the Bourns encoders, they seem to be rather high quality, with a nice feel to them overall.

The datasheet shows nothing about the relative phase of the encoded signals.   The encoders appear to be something like the RE1103XC1-H01 (based on the dimensions, "X" is going to be "F", for 7mm).  The datasheet doesn't describe how to be more specific than that.  It's a 20-position encoder.

Obviously I had to hook the encoders up to a scope with the appropriate pull-up resistors (common went to ground) in order to see the output of the signals they would generate.  I performed this exercise for the purpose of comparing how the phases worked in the Siglent encoders compared with the Bourns encoders I replaced them with, and found the above.  But here's the interesting thing: I can't find anything wrong with these encoders.

Whatever was going on with my scope before, it was not the fault of the encoders.  That implies either a broken solder joint that I somehow missed, or the connections between the encoder board and the rest of the scope were somehow intermittent.

That, of course, means that I can solve the directionality issue by putting the original encoders back into service.  That's likely what I'll do.

Meanwhile, I'm halfway tempted to replace the remaining two smooth encoders with these Bourns detented encoders, because it's really nice to be able to move the encoder with precision, and to easily go from the current value to the next value definitively.  But it's also nice to be able to move the horizontal and vertical positions fluidly, and that kind of precision isn't quite as useful for those as it is for the trigger position (or for pretty much anything controlled by the multifunction knob).

Regardless of what I end up doing, this wound up being a worthwhile, though frustrating, exercise.

--- End quote ---

This is a thorough implementation of patience tracking the information and specification. Taking the oscilloscope apart only later to discover that putting back together was all it needed :-/O. If swapping the encoders back, then changing the remaining refines use, that feeling of adjustments should be oddly satisfying with lingering love/hate. :-BROKE.  When and if you do this procedure, I would love to see your findings from the end result! I would be tempted to make the same modifications with the encoders you linked if they perform great in the respective adjustment purposes.

While you have the oscilloscope apart, is there a safe way to test the encoders on the board before fully assembling again? If it's a reverse signal between pins A/B in regard to Bourns, would the timing be sufficient if you crossed the lines? ie.  bend pins away from board to solder a wire to the correct path? If that doesnt give enough stability, breaking the trace further up the board and then crossing the wires if possible? Either of those options are sketchy ideas at best and more not truly being feasible.

Which probes did you use for checking the logic of the encoders? Was it on the sds1204x-e? Manufactured probes or home made? I'm deciding on getting a few general purpose kits to be able to make some myself.

My unit should arrive by the of end new week. There will be thorough use of the machine while I'm within the first month of purchase!

Not on the same level of frustration you are experiences with your scope, I respect not settling till its the way you want. Testing keycaps and the switches for peripherals, cycling through a dozen to find the most natural for many days  8). I do love a good tactile/haptic feedback. Hand full of things around the house will have your lesson applied when attempting trouble shooting procedures. checking solder joints and signal integrity a few times before removing things will be first on the list.
tautech:

--- Quote from: geneonline on April 01, 2022, 03:31:08 am ---
--- Quote from: tautech on April 01, 2022, 03:08:48 am ---SPD3303X-E are certainly not your usual PSU design however we sell a good few each year and have little problem with them. That their 3 channels are all properly isolated from one another and mains ground allows multiple units to be connected in series to a rated max of 500V from mains GND.

--- End quote ---
Is there a way to have all devices linked/controlled in a single app? Example, logging, screen recording, and controlling in one window? Would like to synchronize tests  referencing back at a given time. Does every device needs their own software? Is it preferable to connect with a network switch or usb in your experience?

--- End quote ---
I prefer LAN as I have a switch on the bench whereas others might have a USB hub I don't.

The scope has a webserver for remote control with a mouse and also a SCPI command panel and you can also use the EasyScopeX SW from Siglent but there are a couple of other notable SW packages that support most Siglent instruments:
Test Controller
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/

LXI tools has a thread here on the blog should you want to engage with the writer:
https://siglentna.com/application-note/lxi-tools/

Check out the various model specific programming guides:
 https://int.siglent.com/download/
geneonline:

--- Quote from: tautech on April 01, 2022, 06:29:30 am ---I prefer LAN as I have a switch on the bench whereas others might have a USB hub I don't.

The scope has a webserver for remote control with a mouse and also a SCPI command panel and you can also use the EasyScopeX SW from Siglent but there are a couple of other notable SW packages that support most Siglent instruments:
Test Controller
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/program-that-can-log-from-many-multimeters/

LXI tools has a thread here on the blog should you want to engage with the writer:
https://siglentna.com/application-note/lxi-tools/

Check out the various model specific programming guides:
 https://int.siglent.com/download/

--- End quote ---

I'm Very interested in learning more about LXI's platform.  Many devices are marked with it! You are an impressive one stop shop for resources. Thanks for taking time out to help and point to correct sources to reference! Time to go down another rabbit hole of information  :popcorn:
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