Author Topic: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter  (Read 8643 times)

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Online Fungus

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2024, 04:58:44 pm »
their main defects where the supercap ....

That's why mine's a 187 - no supercap.

I don't need the 189's internal data logging function, so... bigger numbers aren't always better. :-//
 

Offline H.O

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2024, 07:40:59 pm »
I've got an original 87, a small 101, a 233 with the remote display, a 175 and then the 189.
The 189 is, by far, the one I use the most, it is just rock solid.

I've must've missed the supercap issue, does it leak and eat the PCB? Should I replace it before it's too late?
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2024, 08:13:58 pm »
Well problems or not (I assume they could be fixed now they know about it), it is general fact that 187/189 is considered by many as "best" meter they made.

If they want to make something "new" they shouldn't design anything new, or even have to make stupid market research.

Simply bring back 187/189. Full specification is there. Just make technology refresh. Keep LCD display. No OLED crap.

If I could buy brand new 189 today, I would. But, not if it will  be 1500 USD. Price of 87V today is also cretinously high.
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Online Fungus

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #53 on: September 19, 2024, 09:25:49 pm »
The 189 is, by far, the one I use the most, it is just rock solid.

I've must've missed the supercap issue, does it leak and eat the PCB? Should I replace it before it's too late?

Yes.

It can also drain the battery like crazy even if it doesn't leak.

If you don't need it then just remove it. All you lose is the data logging and the time of day.

 
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Online Fungus

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #54 on: September 19, 2024, 09:27:51 pm »
Price of 87V today is also cretinously high.

Big corporation and government contract pricing.  :)

They simply aren't worth it if you can get hold of a Brymen.

Even the famous warranty doesn't mean much when you can buy three Brymens for the price of one Fluke.
 

Offline BeBuLamar

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2024, 10:15:30 pm »
Price of 87V today is also cretinously high.

Big corporation and government contract pricing.  :)

They simply aren't worth it if you can get hold of a Brymen.

Even the famous warranty doesn't mean much when you can buy three Brymens for the price of one Fluke.

I had the original 87 bought in 1988. It had bad display and so I had them fixed it in the mid 90's under warranty. Until 2004 it once again had bad display and I sent it in they don't fix it any more. So the lifetime warranty doesn't cover their or my lifetime.
 
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Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #56 on: September 20, 2024, 04:48:43 am »
I know what it says, since I do this crazy thing called “reading it before posting it”. ;)

However, your original comment, to which I was replying, said “DMMs”. I then used the word “multimeters”. The job listing says “meters”. And while all DMMs are multimeters, and all multimeters are meters, not all meters are DMMs. Fluke makes a whole stable of other meters. So we can’t necessarily infer from the job listing that they will do multimeter development in Poland.

Of course, though, I clearly missed what you meant by it, which is why I noted it. I appreciate you taking the time to help me catch up to what you were saying :)
 

Offline J-R

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #57 on: September 20, 2024, 05:18:15 am »
"I don't understand gravity or celestial mechanics, so the earth must be flat and the moon landing was a hoax."
"I don't understand why people would buy a Fluke, so it must just be big corporations and government contracts."

Anyway, there is a Fluke 87V w/AC clamp deal right now on Amazon for $476.98:
https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-87V-IMSK-Industrial-Multimeter/dp/B004HDUNQ2/
Some other deals to be found too...
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #58 on: September 20, 2024, 06:00:39 am »
Anyway, there is a Fluke 87V w/AC clamp deal right now on Amazon for $476.98:
https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-87V-IMSK-Industrial-Multimeter/dp/B004HDUNQ2/
Some other deals to be found too...

a) They won't ship to me
b) My BM857s cost me a third of that "deal"
 

Offline linux-works

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2024, 04:00:09 pm »
any mechanical designers out there want to help?

I have a diy POC working with an esp-01 chip and a coin cell battery.

the next step is to make some small enclosure that fits around a DMM test probe (or maybe replaces it?) and has this button circuit.

if anyone wants to help, we can get this moving along.  the hardware and firmware is not hard; the hard part is making something you'd WANT to hold and be slim enough or hand-friendly enough so that its useful in real life.

I think we can do better than that photo mock-up from fluke.

Offline Everett_Tom

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2024, 09:27:19 pm »
any mechanical designers out there want to help?

I have a diy POC working with an esp-01 chip and a coin cell battery.

the next step is to make some small enclosure that fits around a DMM test probe (or maybe replaces it?) and has this button circuit.

if anyone wants to help, we can get this moving along.  the hardware and firmware is not hard; the hard part is making something you'd WANT to hold and be slim enough or hand-friendly enough so that its useful in real life.

I think we can do better than that photo mock-up from Fluke.

Have you considered just purchasing an off-the-shelf BLE button? I know I've seen some small ones used for accessories for Selfie-sticks that just act like a BLE keyboard. Alternatively, I think the Fluke 1587 has test leads with a nice build in button that you may be able to use (The Fluke TP-165x is super expensive https://www.fluke.com/en-us/product/accessories/probes/fluke-tp165x, but a knockoff one is like $20 https://www.amazon.com/ZIBOO-Megohmmeter-Insulation-Resistance-Multimeter/dp/B08DCLPDP9 )
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2024, 09:47:02 pm »
I have a diy POC working with an esp-01 chip and a coin cell battery.

I think we can do better than that photo mock-up from fluke.

That's the easy part.

How does it make things happen inside the multimeter?
 

Offline linux-works

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2024, 10:10:35 pm »
for my setup, the way I touch the DMM is via its digital interface and I'm limited to it being a one-way push.  for many, its two-way but you dont really need that.  nice to have, but not 100% needed for most tasks.

I'm polling the dmm and getting its value over optical.  my esp chip in that opto poller 'head unit' (literally sits on the dmm's head) will listen for espnow pings from the button and it will mark the current (last) value along with an ntp timestamp of the value.  log to nvram if you want or echo thru websockets to some remote target, etc.

but that's the overview.  a bit of hw that reads a meter and will mark the sample with time when it gets some remote indication.

I've been thinking more about this.  do I really want to make a nice probe awkward to hold?  I'm struggling to think of some 'clamp on' that wont make the probing annoying to use.  also, if you are in a tight area with your probe needle, pressing a button on the probe could very well cause it to slip and short where its not wanted.  what I'm now thinking is the better method is a wireless footswitch.  it accomplishes exactly the same thing, although less sexy.  but way more practical.  no probe movement, you use ANY probe you want (I like my probemasters) and the foot switch is 100% wireless so you locate it where you want.  comments about that approach?  would you use it, if you had some need for this?

the link on amazon on the special button probe is interesting.  I might buy one to just see if its usable.  I can intercept that button and the hardwork (plastic design) is already done.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2024, 10:18:01 pm by linux-works »
 

Offline linux-works

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2024, 10:25:22 pm »
in terms of BLE, how quick can a pulse be sent across?  I dont normally think of ble as fast for latency. 

I avoided involving any AP and dhcp and went with espnow since its just 'throw wifi frame and exit', so its as fast as you can get.  I might add serial number to each button press so you can detect bounces or drops.

Offline tooki

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2024, 09:02:02 pm »
in terms of BLE, how quick can a pulse be sent across?  I dont normally think of ble as fast for latency. 
It’s fast enough that, other than for demanding gaming, the latency of keyboards and mice is not noticeable, whether on traditional Bluetooth or BLE.

In other words, it’s plenty fast for normal human interaction.
 

Offline linux-works

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2024, 01:20:08 pm »
once you are paired and any re-connects are done, then the flow is fast enough.

but if you are in sleep mode and you need to send one sample and then go back to hiber mode, that overhead on ble may still be too much.

Offline mqsaharan

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2024, 03:52:38 am »


Fluke new Self Check feature, just watched it.
It may be good for all the paper work in industry. To me, it sounds like they are making the device unnecessarily more complex.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #67 on: October 19, 2024, 12:13:42 am »
Fluke new Self Check feature, just watched it.
It may be good for all the paper work in industry. To me, it sounds like they are making the device unnecessarily more complex.

How hard was it to show the screen properly?
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #68 on: October 19, 2024, 06:25:36 pm »
WAFWOT we used to call videos like that what a f waste of time. The screen isn't shown that I could see other than the poor contrast and glare, terrible in the outdoors.

If the 283 multimeter is any good, why do you need self-check? Isn't it supposed to be reliable lol "Limited Lifetime Warranty".

It seems the DMM knows the date and self-check could be to generate nuisance reminders to get a calibration cycle done. Settings: 1,2,3 years or never.
Why show me battery voltage? I'd rather have some % SOC estimate rather than converting in my head i.e. 3.9VDC is what.
This is just a few "features" added, kind of another nothing burger product for $558 for 6,000 count. Claims a 1,500V range but protection is clamping at 1,100V and there's no LowZ feature - this isn't a useful product out in the field IMHO. Fortive marketing wank ICK.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #69 on: October 19, 2024, 10:32:41 pm »
If the 283 multimeter is any good, why do you need self-check? Isn't it supposed to be reliable lol "Limited Lifetime Warranty".

It's for companies that like checklist procedures for important things.
e.g. Run and document the left test before taking this critical measurement for this space probe going to Pluto.
 

Offline LazyJack

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #70 on: October 20, 2024, 08:37:10 am »
I see you have no clue of what you are talking about. Self test is not there, becasue the unit is not realiable, or that there is or is not lifetime warranty.
Selftest is there to make sure that at the time of the measurement you can be pretty much certain that it is working as expected. And you can enter the measurement documentation that self test passed, that the battery voltage is xxV and that the unit was last calibrated 14 months ago. This is all extremely important for certain use cases at certain industries. And extremely not important to use cases where the people rate test and measurement equipement from Aliexpress on how nice the animation on the startup screen and whine about the price of a Fluke comapred to an Aneng.
 
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Offline 2N3055

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #71 on: October 20, 2024, 09:55:48 am »
I see you have no clue of what you are talking about. Self test is not there, becasue the unit is not realiable, or that there is or is not lifetime warranty.
Selftest is there to make sure that at the time of the measurement you can be pretty much certain that it is working as expected. And you can enter the measurement documentation that self test passed, that the battery voltage is xxV and that the unit was last calibrated 14 months ago. This is all extremely important for certain use cases at certain industries. And extremely not important to use cases where the people rate test and measurement equipement from Aliexpress on how nice the animation on the startup screen and whine about the price of a Fluke comapred to an Aneng.

I disagree. It is still useless, in a way that it does not replace or enhance any procedures in industries that need this kind of thing.

- Calibration is still needed, and it is clearly stated on Calibration sticker. If Calibration sticker is unreadable return for calibration.
- Probe cable, and 2 voltage ranges are checked on EXTERNAL known voltages before checking live circuits that can pose health hazard. By Fluke's own statement SelfCheck does not replace that and is not to be used instead. They specifically say it is not replacement for calibration or live test.
- Every meter (including Aneng) has battery self check. They have battery low indicator. If battery low indicator in on, meter is not to be used. If battery indicator is showing battery is OK, then all specifications of meter are in specifications. Nobody gives a FF what battery voltage is.

In fact calibration warning is more than useless because it does not keep a record who and when pressed OK on the warning, and battery and all other checks are only adding work to people, because now they have to do paperwork on that crap too. And writing down a battery voltage, instead of just checking Battery OK.

In fact, this sounds exactly like something invented by someone that was never a technician in critical industries but they wanted to add some cool wanky feature to show innovation.

This switch position will never be used by any people in critical industries. In fact, I could see field manuals enhanced by warnings that it should not be used as a replacement for current safety procedures.
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Offline robert.rozee

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #72 on: October 20, 2024, 11:36:44 am »
- Calibration is still needed, and it [needs to be] clearly stated on Calibration sticker. If Calibration sticker is unreadable return for calibration.
- Probe cable, and 2 voltage ranges are checked on EXTERNAL known voltages before checking live circuits that can pose health hazard. By Fluke's own statement SelfCheck does not replace that and is not to be used instead. They specifically say it is not replacement for calibration or live test.

agreed 100%, for traceability when things go wrong, the only acceptable thing will be an initialed and dated calibration sticker. likewise, when things go wrong, only use of a physically external test device of some sort (with a cal sticker itself) will be accepted as proof that the operator had checked out the meter.

and in the majority of cases when things do not go wrong, no one will care less about any of these things anyway. it is only when someone loses an eye that calibration stickers and other records are examined!


... but did nobody else notice the obvious - the abysmally bad display? while the meter has a very large LCD screen, measurements are displayed in a font that fills just a tiny proportion of the screen real-estate, and the contrast was appalling. those things are surely enough to exclude the meter from any serious field use.


cheers,
rob   :-)
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #73 on: October 20, 2024, 06:36:32 pm »
Why would it show the battery level?

Isn't it better to make a meter that simply refuses to work if the battery is too low?

This is a gimmick in terms of real functionality...

...but with the right marketing I bet it'll sell millions.
 

Offline floobydust

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Re: NEW Fluke 87-VI Multimeter
« Reply #74 on: October 20, 2024, 07:13:24 pm »
Fluke Everett next to Boeing does have some employee crosstalk problems. First the "MAX" name and now it's a multimeter for doing QA. Makes me laugh, all it needs is a printer for QA PASS stickers lol which was a thing in early 2000 when ISO-9001 was all the rage. Such innovation.

Proof is if the "Self-check" is simply a marketing wank feature for some QA sales OR does it instill a sense of safety that the DMM reads voltage correctly? If self-check fails and hazardous voltages are not displayed, it's going to be a neat lawsuit. We can ask Fluke for the FMEA showing 100% coverage of those safety issues.
Any of us with vintage or chinese multimeters always do a self check every time we use them.


The 283 manual says F/W updates must be done with 3xAA battery voltage above 4.0V and no mention what chemistry the product works with, just LR6.

The TL175-HV test leads look interesting with patent TwistGuard extendable guard whatever that is.
Nice to pull a Boeing and use the same model number, who ordered the ordinary 1,000V TL175 and killed that QA person LOL.
 


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