Author Topic: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?  (Read 48556 times)

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Offline tttonyyy

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #450 on: June 16, 2021, 07:52:15 pm »
The Hantek has some corners cut to get the price down. Is it still useful? Definitely. But I have a long career in embedded electronics and my new day job is full time WFH embedded development without access to a company lab, so I really need something a bit more precise. It's a shame, I really liked the Hantek styling and specs on paper. But I suspect the Siglent with its advertised low noise inputs and 500uV/div sensitivity is probably where I should have started instead. Hantek tempted me in with a scope half the price but failed to deliver the level of quality I hoped it would have.
 

Offline QuitButton

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #451 on: June 16, 2021, 08:32:38 pm »
Is it still useful? Definitely.

I'm not sure it is tbh. I've had a Hantek DSO5102P for the last few years, which, lets be honest, is pretty terrible compared to anything more pricey, but it does the job if you just want a basic modern-ish scope to check go/no go function for fault finding. Its somewhere neartm the correct readings, doesn't crash too much and for the price its useable (with patience).

I was hoping, as many of on this thread where, that the 'new' DSO2X1X would be little bit of an upgrade, probably no faster but still usable, and "near enough" accurate for hobby use and so on.

On the face of it it looks good. Nicer display, nicer spec that the DSO5102P, more memory, wave gen.. etc. etc.

 :palm:

Nope. Anyone reading this thread will know just some of the issues.

Will they get fixed? I'm not convinced. This thread says its a way underpowered CPU to do what its trying to do, its got a number of design issues that can't be fixed in firmware, and even if it could be fixed, Hantek don't seem to even be aware of the problems with it.

Total lemon.  :-// :-- :-BROKE



 

Offline imk

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #452 on: June 16, 2021, 09:02:15 pm »
So I'm pulling the trigger on a return and have ordered a Siglent SDS1202X-E instead.

My cat is currently trying to get inside the box my SDS1104X-U was supplied in  :-+

First Impressions? OOOh nice display!.. Gah! Fan!

Is there a thread for the SDS1104X-U? I have a few questions (one being why I'm struggling with a simple serial decode, lots of "Over length" message).

 :-+ :-+ :-+
QuitButton,
Think the fan was mentioned in a review, is it really that bad?
As SDS1104X is what I was thinking of getting, i guess i could change the fan but then warranty is gone i guess.
imk
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1104x-e-noisy-fan-replacement/
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 09:05:08 pm by imk »
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Offline tttonyyy

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #453 on: June 16, 2021, 09:57:56 pm »
The two channel SDS1202X-E is supposedly quieter as there is less to cool. Well, fingers crossed for that. I already swapped a passively cooled 15V 4A supply for a 30V 10A programmable one with fan, which is silent until it gets warm, then you know it's there. Can do without the scope competing with it.
One thing going for the Hantek, no fans!
 

Online tautech

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #454 on: June 16, 2021, 10:15:36 pm »
The two channel SDS1202X-E is supposedly quieter as there is less to cool. Well, fingers crossed for that. I already swapped a passively cooled 15V 4A supply for a 30V 10A programmable one with fan, which is silent until it gets warm, then you know it's there. Can do without the scope competing with it.
One thing going for the Hantek, no fans!
Much much quieter than any of the 4ch models certainly.
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Offline imk

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #455 on: June 16, 2021, 10:22:44 pm »
Had a fan noise google for siglent and found this thread, might be interesting.
https://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/484937
BTW does the Siglent have a warranty seal on it? If not i guess i could swap fans out with quiet ones :-)
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Offline QuitButton

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #456 on: June 16, 2021, 10:39:40 pm »

Think the fan was mentioned in a review, is it really that bad?


Bad? No. Unexpected? Yes.

Is kind of..  "Old Laptop on medium speed" noise, or "PC PSU from 10 years ago on the desk", or  "noticeable and could be annoying in a quiet room" volume. 


« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 10:10:04 am by QuitButton »
 

Offline AndrewBCN

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #457 on: June 17, 2021, 05:55:52 am »
I sincerely hope this thread can go back to a discussion of the Hantek DSO2X1X models, or perhaps I should start another thread?

If you know anything about electronics manufacturing, then you know that comparing a $200 entry-level Hantek DSO to one from any other brand costing twice as much is totally meaningless ("comparing apples to oranges").

Another thing some people seem to have fixated upon is the fact that the little 32-bit ARM SOC inside these Hantek DSOs does not have hardware floating point: it's an ARM926EJ-S without a hardware floating point coprocessor. But the fact is that for processing and displaying 8-bit integer data samples, there is simply no need for floating point code. And for the occasional FFT, the Linux kernel-provided floating point emulator is more than adequate performance-wise. The advantage of this lower performance ARM SOC is its low power dissipation, so there is no need for a fan in these Hantek DSOs.

Now, as far as I can tell, there is a lot of room for improving the firmware in these little scopes*, and I sincerely hope Hantek gets its act together on delivering significant firmware upgrades ASAP - which I hope we can continue to discuss here in this thread. Providing effective feedback on firmware issues to Hantek can only help them and accelerate the firmware revision process, but I don't see how all the whining and bitching can have any positive outcome.

*: I have determined that Hantek programmers used a 2017 version of Buildroot and gcc version 5.4.0 to build u-boot (also from 2017), the kernel (5.2.0) and the root filesystem. Without any particular difficulty, in a couple of hours I was able to use a 2019 version of Buildroot and gcc version 8.3.0 to build u-boot (from 2019), the kernel (5.2.4) and a more complete root filesystem - with room to spare. I intend to write to Hantek providing them with this information.
 
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Offline imk

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #458 on: June 17, 2021, 07:47:36 am »
Threads often drift to and from topic, but you right to try and keep the DSO2x thread alive.
My Banggood return request is stuck at "Solution under comfirming" at 28.8 days used up of 30 days.
Hence i look the hantek site everyday for a new stable software release as potentially great little scope for the monies.
But as mentioned these dozen lockups a day are its nemesis for me :-(
Good luck with you software rebuild  imk
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Offline imk

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #459 on: June 17, 2021, 08:17:42 am »
While on the issues of heat in scopes.
I ran my little DSO2xxx all day, it got warm on the left side above the power supply but noting i would consider excessive.
From videos i have seen of them with back removed there seems to be a place to add a small fan.
So has anyone added a small fan to the DSO2xxx?
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Online DavidAlfa

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #460 on: June 17, 2021, 10:17:39 am »
It's not that hot. Might be 50ºC inside, not more.
Some heat is actually good! Keeps the moisture out and helps with the accuracy by preventing huge temperature differences between runs.


Is this the noise we are all talking about, right? Do3esn't seem to come from the regulators, but from the ADC itself.
The actual noise frequency might be much higher, but appears modulated due aliasing artifacts.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 10:32:34 am by DavidAlfa »
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Online tautech

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #461 on: June 17, 2021, 10:34:46 am »
So I'm pulling the trigger on a return and have ordered a Siglent SDS1202X-E instead.

My cat is currently trying to get inside the box my SDS1104X-U was supplied in  :-+

First Impressions? OOOh nice display!.. Gah! Fan!

Is there a thread for the SDS1104X-U? I have a few questions (one being why I'm struggling with a simple serial decode, lots of "Over length" message).

 :-+ :-+ :-+
Yep here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-1120-new-sds1104x-u-4-channel-100mhz-1gsas-economy-oscilloscope/

Post some screenshots first saved to USB with the blue Print button but be sure to have decoding menus showing so to see some of your settings.
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Offline imk

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #462 on: June 17, 2021, 11:02:44 am »
It's not that hot. Might be 50ºC inside, not more.
Some heat is actually good! Keeps the moisture out and helps with the accuracy by preventing huge temperature differences between runs.

True, but the bigger the thermal cycle the bigger the overall stress on components and the sooner it will fail.
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Offline tttonyyy

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #463 on: June 17, 2021, 11:16:45 am »
Threads often drift to and from topic, but you right to try and keep the DSO2x thread alive.
My Banggood return request is stuck at "Solution under comfirming" at 28.8 days used up of 30 days.
Hence i look the hantek site everyday for a new stable software release as potentially great little scope for the monies.
But as mentioned these dozen lockups a day are its nemesis for me :-(
Good luck with you software rebuild  imk

If you paid through Paypal, you can invoke the buyer protection by starting a dispute.  For my Banggood purchase, taking that action does not expire until November.  Record all communication with Banggood and the seller (if they ever respond) in order to document it with Paypal.  If you e-mailed Hantek support before invoking the Banggood return, include that too with dates, even if Hantek did not respond.  It builds an irrefutable case with Paypal that shows that you, as the consumer, have acted reasonably.

I sincerely hope this thread can go back to a discussion of the Hantek DSO2X1X models, or perhaps I should start another thread?

If you know anything about electronics manufacturing, then you know that comparing a $200 entry-level Hantek DSO to one from any other brand costing twice as much is totally meaningless ("comparing apples to oranges").

Another thing some people seem to have fixated upon is the fact that the little 32-bit ARM SOC inside these Hantek DSOs does not have hardware floating point: it's an ARM926EJ-S without a hardware floating point coprocessor. But the fact is that for processing and displaying 8-bit integer data samples, there is simply no need for floating point code. And for the occasional FFT, the Linux kernel-provided floating point emulator is more than adequate performance-wise. The advantage of this lower performance ARM SOC is its low power dissipation, so there is no need for a fan in these Hantek DSOs.

Now, as far as I can tell, there is a lot of room for improving the firmware in these little scopes*, and I sincerely hope Hantek gets its act together on delivering significant firmware upgrades ASAP - which I hope we can continue to discuss here in this thread. Providing effective feedback on firmware issues to Hantek can only help them and accelerate the firmware revision process, but I don't see how all the whining and bitching can have any positive outcome.

I agree.  The Siglent scopes use components that add significantly more BOM cost than the Hantek and it is unfair to compare the two.  But it is useful for anyone considering purchasing the Hantek to go in "eyes open" to what they are getting, which can only be achieved by examining its shortcomings.

For the money, what it offers is a remarkable amount of technology, it seems to come with an "OK" front end and well laid-out application user interface.   Things like resolving crashes, DC offsets, scaling issues from calibration, some trigger filtering can potentially be fixed with updates.  Whether the noise level is tolerable comes down to what each user's expectations are, and how they intend to use it.  I still stand by my statement that it's a useful bit of kit - just not for what I need.

As for the cooling arrangement, it does get warm but the case slots top and bottom indicate that the design was intended for passive convection cooling.  Perhaps with an added fan overclocking the SoC and memory without shortening lifespan/crashing becomes an option for the hardcore Hantek hacker.  I also agree that the SoC is about what I'd expect given the price range.

My Siglent has arrived and first impressions are OK.  I actually prefer the button layout on the Hantek and elements of the Hantek UI (from a background of using many different scopes, that's saying a lot).  On the Siglent the knobs feel less substantial and "wobble" - the Hantek knobs are more solidly connected to the scope.  The buttons on the Hantek have a decent "clunk" when you depress them - the Siglent is like pressing foam with little feedback (when the key beep is off) to know that you've pressed it hard enough.

Noise and signal quality I have yet to assess (one for this evening) but first impressions are favourable.  I can still see some 100MHz pulses and trigger on them, the signal looks better.  But that might be an implementation detail in how the Siglent decimates the capture buffer for display vs the Hantek.  It could be the Hantek SoC does simpler decimation due to more limited processing, and that just looks worse.  I will do a more thorough assessment later.

Fan noise is a quiet murmur that is only noticeable when listening for it.  Not a patch on my programmable PSU that lets you know when it's cooling.

So it's not all rainbows and sunshine in Siglent vs Hantek land, but it's early days for comparison yet.

Edit: oh yes and my cat loves the Siglent box too.  Must be something about the shape that's optimised for cat brains.
 

Offline AndrewBCN

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #464 on: June 17, 2021, 12:08:09 pm »
...
So it's not all rainbows and sunshine in Siglent vs Hantek land, but it's early days for comparison yet.
...

Apart from comparing aesthetics (see attached pictures - in my totally subjective opinion, the Hantek looks better) and perhaps the feel of the buttons, I don't think it makes much sense to compare the technical performance of the 200MHz Siglent SDS1202X-E (a $400 DSO) to the 100/150MHz Hantek (a $200 DSO). Again, that's a typical case of "comparing apples to oranges".

At these price levels, they just can't perform the same - and obviously they don't. Just as an example: the Hantek uses an ARM926 processor in a $1.40 SOC, the Siglent uses a $25 Zynq 7020 which has two ARM Cortex A9 processors. The main board on the Hantek is probably 4 or 6 layers, whereas the main board on the Siglent is 8 or 10 layers (i.e. much more expensive). There is simply no comparison.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 01:46:54 pm by AndrewBCN »
 

Online DavidAlfa

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #465 on: June 17, 2021, 12:26:05 pm »
But the fact is that for processing and displaying 8-bit integer data samples, there is simply no need for floating point code. And for the occasional FFT, the Linux kernel-provided floating point emulator is more than adequate performance-wise. The advantage of this lower performance ARM SOC is its low power dissipation, so there is no need for a fan in these Hantek DSOs.

Meh. Do you see stm32 burning because of having FPU?
AllWinner has the LicheePi zero, based on the V3s, much powerful, not only die faster clocks, but also has FPU.
And the "ocassional" FFT.... I think it does a lot more work in floats than you might think.  For sure, there're some algorithms behing the drawing functions.
Find/do some performance tests with and without fpu. It's easily 20x slower... or more!
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Offline AndrewBCN

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #466 on: June 17, 2021, 12:35:22 pm »
...
Meh. Do you see stm32 burning because of having FPU?

That's not the point.

AllWinner has the LicheePi zero, based on the V3s, much powerful, not only die faster clocks, but also has FPU.
And the "ocassional" FFT.... I think it does a lot more work in floats than you might think.  For sure, there're some algorithms behing the drawing functions.
Find/do some performance tests with and without fpu. It's easily 20x slower... or more!

Usually 2D display algorithms need exactly zero floating point code. So the performance difference will be exactly none. Obviously I can't vouch for the quality of the programming in these little scopes, but as I wrote, there is a lot of room for further improvements, from what I have seen until now.

 

Online DavidAlfa

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #467 on: June 17, 2021, 12:55:48 pm »
The 2D drawing algorithms can be escalated using fixed point, for sure.
But you'd be surprised how today's programmers take the floats for granted, and use them  even for storing "1"  :-DD.
I doubt it's only drawing simple xy plots. Probably there's a lot more behind.

I found another serious bug. It only happens below 500mV (When the relay clicks)
If you saturate the signal it goes completely nuts.
Easy way of testing: Set the AWG to square wave, 1KHz, 1.5Vpp and 250mV offset.
Set the channel (1x Mode) to 200mV/div. You see a zoomed square sigbnal, no problem.
Now start rising the offset. What the *** happens to the signal?
It's not the AWG. Anything saturating the input in modes under 500mV/div do that.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 01:46:46 pm by DavidAlfa »
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Offline tttonyyy

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #468 on: June 17, 2021, 03:24:53 pm »
That's odd.  The slope doesn't look linear, as though there is some form of AC decoupling.  If you slow down the AWG is the slope more pronounced?
 

Offline imk

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #469 on: June 17, 2021, 03:51:17 pm »
tttonyyy,
Re paying for the hantek, yes i did pay with paypal and thanks for the reminder about my rights.

However Banggood have a Get Out Of Jail Free clause.

Have you contacted Hantek about this problem, Yes
Did you follow their advice, Yes i uploaded the new firmware.
Sorry will don't accept returns of modified products. :-(

Have you contacted Hantek about this problem, Yes
Did you follow their advice, No.
Follow their advice and get back to us. :-(

This is the Kobayashi Maru scenario, anyone know James T Kirk's number :-)

I think the way the return request is going I shall be out of time on Midnight Friday.
Not too worried, either ebay it, or await next firmware from Hantek which is few weeks overdue.
Maybe they are feeling the flak from these threads and having a do or die last push.
Has anyone checked the job adds for programmers at Hantek :-)

BTW when reporting new DSO2xxx features would it be worth noting the firmware release number/date?
all the best imk


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Online DavidAlfa

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #470 on: June 17, 2021, 06:37:22 pm »
It's not the AWG, anything you throw there with too high level and 20mV/div setting(1x) or less, makes it!
Will flash it again and ensure it's not a software issue, but...
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Offline Victor1964

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #471 on: June 17, 2021, 06:40:13 pm »
My Hintek DSO2D15 is OK
 
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Offline imk

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #472 on: June 17, 2021, 07:25:29 pm »
My Hintek DSO2D15 is OK
What firmware version are you on please?
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Offline Sergey_Malyshev

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #473 on: June 17, 2021, 07:39:31 pm »
I have a question?
Unintentionally installing the update dso3kb_20210510. On the FW (3000) software. The oscilloscope stopped working as it should !!! How can I become a licensed owner of this device? (DSO2D15)
 

Offline Victor1964

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Re: New Hantek DSO2X1X models?
« Reply #474 on: June 17, 2021, 08:45:55 pm »
DSO2000 Firmware
2021-04-20
 


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