Author Topic: set out to buy a Rigol DHO800, ordered a Vevor SDS1102 for $93 instead!  (Read 1331 times)

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Offline TomKatt

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Oh my...

You dun goofed.

This item and a DHO800 are not in the same playing field.
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Offline Kean

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That is a very basic scope compared to the DHO800.

Only two channels is very limiting, and the lack of any decoding functions may make it near useless if you work with digital devices.  A separate USB logic analyser helps to mitigate this.

You don't mention your use cases, but if you just want to see some analog waveforms it might be sufficient for you, and many beginners started off with worse.
 

Online coppercone2

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i don't get vevor. they sell machine tools and oscilloscopes ? i mostly know of them because of high end drill sharpening machines for small shops
 

Online Aldo22

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This is my first scope. I'm sure it's "super good enough". Will I regret it? Comment your prediction below.

I was going to buy a BMW for $60000, now I took a KIA for $16000.
Will I regret it?
I have no idea.   ;)
 

Offline TomKatt

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This is my first scope. I'm sure it's "super good enough". Will I regret it? Comment your prediction below.

I was going to buy a BMW for $60000, now I took a KIA for $16000.
Will I regret it?
I have no idea.   ;)
You were being generous I think lol.  A Yugo might be a better comparison.

You don't mention your use cases, but if you just want to see some analog waveforms it might be sufficient for you, and many beginners started off with worse.
In fairness, my first scope was a 1950's tube 'oscillograph' that had no calibrated scales or triggering capability.  But I could see audio signals on the screen, and that was good enough for me.  We all gotta start somewhere, and if you've got a budget, you work with what you can afford.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 06:29:07 pm by TomKatt »
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Offline ataradov

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For $90 it is a really good deal for a basic scope. I have the Owon branded one and it is my default scope for basic embedded work. It boots fast, easy to control  and just works. Obviously there are cases where it is not sufficient, but at that price I  would recommend it as a first basic scope.
Alex
 
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Offline MiroS

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This is my first scope. I'm sure it's "super good enough". Will I regret it? Comment your prediction below.

I was going to buy a BMW for $60000, now I took a KIA for $16000.
Will I regret it?
I have no idea.   ;)

German automotive industry is sinking, soon VW, BMW and so on will gone sky or change to ownership to Kia or one of chinese brands, so keep going with BMW as long as it exists. Btw. whole german economy is sinking  quickly
 

Offline ledtester

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From the comments it appears that the 4-channel version was recently on sale for about $100:

 

Offline thm_w

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For the price.. you won't regret it any time soon, might work for what you want. But you'll definitely be replacing it within a year or two if you continue to learn/practice etc.


i don't get vevor. they sell machine tools and oscilloscopes ? i mostly know of them because of high end drill sharpening machines for small shops

They sell everything they can get their hands on. Alcohol stills, power tools, garden tools, ultrasonic cleaners, fans, whatever.
Sort of like Xiaomi, but also do the logistics as well.

Hard to find info on their company and why they exist though.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 

Online coppercone2

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i think its kind of like a version of a index fund (i.e. S&P 500) but in form of company



sears was kind of like that I think. Maybe long ago before taiwan tools, they had sears brand US made tools. But if sears had engineers approving schematics and designing stuff, or if they just designed the sears decal stamp... idk

Its weird for a e-tailer to make their own products because then their competing with their own catalog listing? there is amazon basics, which is weird as hell. And if you put ONLY your own name on everything as a e-tailer, then it just seeems like extra work plus you can't have fluid product changes to keep cutting edge. if you just sell other people stuff you can always put the best thing there if you want because its just ware house cost. Like pay more and delay shipping of new product just so you can get your name on it? I gues you need to get alot of people hot about exclusive sales contracts
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 01:38:44 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline djacobow

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Good instruments used to be so expensive -- it made a lot of sense to use bargain barrel stuff because that is all most people could afford. But today, rigol and others make nice gear that doesn't cost that much at all. Since most people here do electronics for fun, I don't get why people subject themselves to bad gear. It's just more pleasant to use stuff today costs a tiny bit more. You know what's not fun? Wondering if you're instruments are deceiving you.

Same goes for tools. "I'm a noob, so I'll start with a $10 iron" makes no sense to me. You're going to hate that iron in no time flat, or you're going to think you can't learn to solder because of it.

I'm also against giving children "student" versions of musical instruments. They don't sound good and don't feel good to play. Much better to rent a proper instrument.  You have a much higher chance of so sparkling passion.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 02:26:19 am by djacobow »
 
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Offline J-R

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The OP mentioned a $100 price point in another thread, so that is probably why the Rigol was passed over.

Low-priced Lilliput/Owon scopes and their rebrands aren't particularly new.  Also, this product line is maybe 10 years old.  Typically very little hope for firmware updates or hackability.

As a side note, general skill level and scope task requirements vary widely here on the forums.  Some just want to look at a waveform, others might want more.  Personally, I suggest buying above your level because it helps you to learn and who knows where you'll be in a few years.  But this is dependent on budgetary constraints...
 

Online coppercone2

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 its either you have a good trigger or you don't have a good trigger. a 2MHz 6 bit scope with a good trigger vs some 200MHz 14 bit BS.....
skill level is something, but if your trigger is just crap then its no good for anyone

you won't even look at the waveform you want if the trigger is bad


and I have seen a very expenisve scope fail to trigger before for no apparent reason! several times in hundreds of uses. this one was freshly calibrated too! by a lab.


imo that is the thing that make a scope either junk or acceptable for some skill level

did it happen? Not sure, but if I get lucky I will have a high res picture of SOMETHING, is not engineering useful.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2024, 02:59:44 am by coppercone2 »
 

Online Aldo22

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For the price.. you won't regret it any time soon, might work for what you want.
I also think so.
I only really regret expensive purchases where it turns out that the product isn't as useful for me as I thought, such as my robot vacuum cleaner.

I don't think that with a $90 scope you necessarily have to think about the next 10 years.
If it's enough for the beginning, it's good. If you're happy with it in the longer term, it's even better.

But you'll definitely be replacing it within a year or two if you continue to learn/practice etc.

Can you explain that?
It's often said that very cheap scopes will definitely not be good enough for you at some point, but what are the reasons for this?
I, for example, have a $130 Hantek DSO2000.
What exactly can I not do with it that I can do with a $500 scope?
I mean basic things, tasks, not performance aspects.

Like, "Now I'd like to measure this, but I can't do that with this scope, because..."

Can somebody explain? Thank you!
 

Offline J-R

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Good deals make a lot of people happy, although sometimes the deal is too good to be true.

Hobby use purchases can have complex aspects.  We choose to spend our own money in different ways.  Priorities differ, and as mentioned so do skill/knowledge levels.  So this discussion needs to keep that in mind.

A friend and I bought similar 2-door econoboxes with 13" wheels maybe 25+ years ago and while I've had a dozen vehicles since then, they can't be convinced to get anything else. "All I do is drive back and forth to work every day and it still does that just fine."  I try to invent excuses to give them a ride in one of my Audis but they always make excuses.  Like I'm asking them to join a cult or something.

So test equipment purchases can be similar to that analogy sometimes!

Anyway, for scopes, based on my limited knowledge, I think a typical hobbyist could be interested in such things as trigger types, decoding, mixed signal (digital), math functions, 50 Ohm termination, network connectivity...the list goes on quite a bit further.

However, I've watched a lot of videos from such people as CuriousMarc, IMSAI Guy and IanScottJohnston and quite often all they need the scope for is viewing a trace.
 
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Offline djacobow

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Can somebody explain? Thank you!

Perhaps in the beginner hobbyist realm there aren't that many things that you could measure with a better scope that you could not measure at all with a lesser one, but it could be much easier. For example

  • cheaper scopes have slower waveform update rates, so there is more dead time between opportunities for the scope to trigger. If you are trying to catch an infrequent strange pulse, the better scope is just an easier instrument to work with.
  • if you are trying to measure signal parameters, you can always measure them just by looking at the waveform and counting graticule lines (as we did in the CRO days) but better scopes do a nice job of doing all that for you -- and there is variation in how well they do it.
  • if you are trying to figure out what is happening on an i2c or SPI bus or whatever, you can eyeball the bytes, and work out the acks yourself, but decoders sure sure are nice, especially when the errant  byte or nak comes after 1000s of correct ones.
  • more sophisticated triggering makes it easier to get a picture of what you're after
  • remote control lets your automate some measurements

But I still want to point out that there are quality-of-life differences also matter. Like, when you press a button or turn a knob, having the scope react instantly without 100ms of delay. Those little delays when turning a gain or time base knob can actually be confusing.

Another "nice" thing is the DPO / phosphor grading color displays that make it easier to see what the variation of the waveform is from scan to scan. You can see the same without the color, but it's a nice visualization.
 
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Online Aldo22

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Thanks for your answers!
There are certainly a few important points, but I don't really see THE compelling reason why I absolutely need a new scope after one or two years.

It's probably more about quality aspects than hard limits on features.
I guess it depends on how often you use it and what you use it for.
Just like you would choose a different car for shopping once a week, than if you were driving a cab every day.

Perhaps many people don't realize that even the cheapest scopes these days have many of the features you mentioned:

trigger types
DSO2000 has: Edge,Pulse,Video,Slope,Overtime,Window,Pattern,Interval,Delay,UART,LIN,CAN,SPI,IIC

decoding
DSO2000 has: RS232/UART、I2C、SPI、CAN、LIN. "Hello world" in the attached image.

math functions
DSO2000 has: +, -, x, /, FFT. FFT Demo in the attached image.

  • if you are trying to measure signal parameters, you can always measure them just by looking at the waveform and counting graticule lines (as we did in the CRO days) but better scopes do a nice job of doing all that for you -- and there is variation in how well they do it.
DSO2000 has Automatic Measurements: PkPk, Frequency, Average, Max, Min, Period, Vtop, Vmid, Vbase, Vamp, RMS, R-Overshoot, Period, Rms, F-Preshoot, PeriodRms, PeriodAvg, RiseTime, FallTime, + Width, - Width, + Duty, - Duty, FRR, FFF, F-Overshoot, R-preshoot, BWidth, FRF, FFR, LRR, LRF, LFR and LFF


remote control lets your automate some measurements.
DSO2000 has SCPI. I made a bode plot script with it.

I think that even a cheap(-est) scope will keep you busy for a while.  :)
But don't get me wrong, the DSO2000 really is a cheap device and it is a bit rough at many points.
I wouldn't want to work with it every day, but it does have a lot to offer for beginners.
 

Offline Shock

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If your budget for a new 2 channel digital scope was only $100 then you can't complain. Spending $300-400 (based on your previously defined usage case) you could have had a fully featured 4 channel unlockable model. Personally I would have done the latter as my budget is different.

But, spending $100 though isn't exactly a huge investment and you'd probably get about $50 for it secondhand. So worst case you're down $50, best case you further your electronics education and it becomes a useful tool.
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Offline J-R

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• Trigger types: edge, edge then edge, pulse width, pattern, OR, rise/fall time,
Nth edge burst, runt, setup & hold, video, and USB.
• Serial decode/trigger options for: CAN/LIN, FlexRay, I2C/SPI, I2S,
UART/RS232, and MIL-STD-1553/ARINC 429. Lister for serial decode
• Math waveforms: add, subtract, multiply, FFT, d/dt, integrate, and square root.
Ax+B, square, absolute value, common logarithm, natural logarithm,
exponential, base 10 exponential, low pass filter, high pass filter, magnify,
measurement trend, chart logic bus timing, and chart logic bus state.
 

Online wraper

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Its specs are like an entry level scope from 2 decades ago. Unless its firmware is buggy as hell, should be usable for basic stuff and where tiny memory is OK. But I'd never buy something like that unless I was extremely tight on money.
 

Online wraper

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This is my first scope. I'm sure it's "super good enough". Will I regret it? Comment your prediction below.

I was going to buy a BMW for $60000, now I took a KIA for $16000.
Will I regret it?
I have no idea.   ;)
More like I was going to buy a KIA but bought an electric scooter instead. Both can get you somewhere...
 


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