Author Topic: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510  (Read 67499 times)

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Online MegaVolt

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #575 on: July 18, 2019, 03:03:32 pm »
I make a living in a field where most PC-related stuff after XP is regarded as unsuited for reliable long time data logging, so Kickstart on a modern laptop PC is not a first choice for me.
This is not a problem.
You can even communicate with the device via telnet. Those. you need a computer, a network cable and a little bit of C to send and receive commands.

You can also install the Keithley Visa library and control the device through the proposed functions.

Here are examples in different languages.
 
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Offline eplpwr

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #576 on: July 18, 2019, 08:38:52 pm »
1) Can I get the calibration data after I have the serial number? If so, how?

2) Is there a free Kickstart now? Or a test license?

1. No, not normally. After harassing Tek support i got a PDF with the factory calibration report, but that was "an exception".  8)

2. I created an account on tek.com and registered the meter. After that I got a license entitlement for one PC. I even had to ask Tek support "what's this license stuff, anyway?", since it just showed up. Hopefully, this function/offer is still active. The license key gets locked to one specific PC and is valid for 100 years.

Best regards,

eplpwr

Edit: License has part# "KSPROMONL-BASE".
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 08:51:21 pm by eplpwr »
 
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Offline drummerdimitri

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #577 on: July 18, 2019, 10:56:30 pm »
Is there a way to use the USB drive as a Buffer to store more readings or does the DMM6500 only support saving the existing readings onto a USB flash drive?
 

Offline AG7CK

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #578 on: July 19, 2019, 12:39:02 am »
Thank you MegaVolt and eplpwr

I will look closer at the code. Thanks.

If necessary I will arass them too  >:D . I have documentation from last year that I tried to order with calibration data from Tek's "partner". Like another poster in this thread I found the so-called partner seemingly did not know what I was talking about.

I will also try out the registration regarding the Kickstart license.

Thanks again for your info.

 

Online KedasProbe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #579 on: July 19, 2019, 07:19:37 pm »
About the kickstart license I think this is still valid:
- You can get the one when you register on tek.com touchscreen device promotion from tek (locked to PC when installed, I assume it dies when the PC dies)
- Second one you need to request from the seller (DMM6500 promotion from tek) but you can move it to another PC.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keithley-dmm6500/msg2315400/#msg2315400

« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 07:21:30 pm by KedasProbe »
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
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Offline JxR

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #580 on: July 19, 2019, 07:34:56 pm »
Is there a way to use the USB drive as a Buffer to store more readings or does the DMM6500 only support saving the existing readings onto a USB flash drive?

I don't believe that is possible. If you need to do long term logging that would fill the buffer, you can use KickStart on your PC.  There are some limitations when it comes to maximum sampling rate using KickStart, but you can set the "Measure Count" to infinite.

If you don't have your KickStart license yet, create an account on tek.com and register your DMM.  You should get a free license that will be locked to the single computer you install it on.
 

Offline cozdas

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #581 on: July 19, 2019, 07:54:04 pm »
Is there a way to use the USB drive as a Buffer to store more readings or does the DMM6500 only support saving the existing readings onto a USB flash drive?

Not sure with normal mode but if you use the scan feature you can have the DMM write the readings to USB after each scan (in various formats). It might be possible to define a pseudo scan card and "use" that too but I haven't played with pseudo scan cards yet so not sure about this. You can of course buy a physical scan card or make one

Alternatively you can write a small script running in a loop on the DMM (no computer connection needed) to read the value and write to a usb file in whatever format you want. With the scripting capabilities the device is very versatile, you should be able to come up with multiple solutions to save readings to usb file.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 12:23:03 am by cozdas »
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #582 on: July 22, 2019, 09:45:47 pm »
I'm wait some time while cozdas share 20 channels scan card, but i don't see any card sources in this topic... hmmm...
Sorry i can't wait more. I bought original 2000-SCAN and go to start testing that card with my 6500...

Pictures of 2000-SCAN card:
« Last Edit: July 22, 2019, 10:47:49 pm by shodan@micron »
 
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Online KedasProbe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #583 on: July 26, 2019, 01:21:53 pm »
I updated the save to USB script uses the startindex now but requires a lot more code just to do that.
Should be lower level stuff though not script code, I don't care where the first measurement is located, 1 should be the first measurement.

Anyway if you open the old csv file in excel and press 'sort' you will have the exact same result.
https://github.com/Ken26M/keithley/blob/pr/5/Instrument_Examples/DMM6500/Save_Measurement.tsp
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 02:43:07 pm by KedasProbe »
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
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Online KedasProbe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #584 on: July 27, 2019, 10:51:13 am »
I must say that the webinterface is very convenient, while I'm sitting in my quiet living room writing/testing some script code the DMM6500 is upstairs humming away. (for the DM3068 I had to write a .net program to see the screen remotely)
The only thing missing would be wake on LAN  ;D
And display.lightstate = display.STATE_LCD_OFF is luckily not changing the webinterface :)
(50% brightness: display.STATE_LCD_50)

About noise:
Is there a way to objectively measure the hum when the DMM6500 in standby because my DMM6500 is louder than the one at work although the one home is newer, is there a objective spec for that?
I know there was a problem with hum in the past that should be fixed but I don't know it this hum is within specifications or not. It could be that I'm just very lucky with the one at work.

In standby the DMM6500 is louder than the Rigol DM3068 but when on the DM3068 is louder.

edit: I did notice that it did turn the display on again without asking, maybe some timer.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 02:01:24 pm by KedasProbe »
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #585 on: July 27, 2019, 01:34:15 pm »
Does it make noise in standby?
 

Online KedasProbe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #586 on: July 27, 2019, 02:03:22 pm »
Does it make noise in standby?
Not fan noise because they are off but you can hear the mains hum.  (hence my question)
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 02:41:20 pm by KedasProbe »
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #587 on: July 29, 2019, 01:51:15 am »
Some more information for you guys! :)

You can watch the video here: [48 Minutes]

youtu.be/Lezd27BzQLo
Shahriar Shahramian
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Offline JxR

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #588 on: July 29, 2019, 04:23:30 am »
This video really makes me wish I waited and picked up a DAQ6510 vs the DMM6500.  I do foresee the DMM6500 going up on eBay eventually since 9 out of 10 times I use my other meter, while the DMM6500 mostly just logs temperature continuously.  No real complaints though, it does a great job logging those temps :)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 01:35:28 pm by JxR »
 

Online hwj-d

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #589 on: July 29, 2019, 09:21:35 am »
But the very most of them you can do with dmm6500 and scancard too?  :popcorn:
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Online KedasProbe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #590 on: July 29, 2019, 09:44:51 am »
Some more information for you guys! :)

You can watch the video here: [48 Minutes]

youtu.be/Lezd27BzQLo
What took you that long ;) nice to get some extra example of configuring a trigger and yes FFT please :)
Tip: if you just want to demo a new script you can just record the webinterface (no camera setup etc, saves time)
I may make one later this week.

I couldn't justify the extra price for the DAQ6510 + Cards though, most of it is present in the DMM6500 and I would probably not use the cards very often assuming I would buy one.
edit: Also the DMM6500 has a 10A input at the back while the DAQ6510 is limited to 3A with a high burden voltage.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 10:59:51 am by KedasProbe »
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
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Online Mr. Scram

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #591 on: July 29, 2019, 10:03:53 am »
But the very most of them you can do with dmm6500 and scancard too?  :popcorn:
A K2000 or DMM6500 with scan card is effectively a DAQ, unless I'm missing something.
 

Offline drummerdimitri

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #592 on: July 29, 2019, 11:24:47 am »
But the very most of them you can do with dmm6500 and scancard too?  :popcorn:
A K2000 or DMM6500 with scan card is effectively a DAQ, unless I'm missing something.

Pretty much yes. That is clearly reflected in the price difference.
 

Online hwj-d

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #593 on: July 29, 2019, 11:38:22 am »
But the very most of them you can do with dmm6500 and scancard too?  :popcorn:
A K2000 or DMM6500 with scan card is effectively a DAQ, unless I'm missing something.
Yes. One can use other and more scancards (Firmware). But the measuring, triggersystem and possibilities is apparently identical?
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Offline Hugoneus

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #594 on: July 29, 2019, 12:55:50 pm »
Some more information for you guys! :)

You can watch the video here: [48 Minutes]

youtu.be/Lezd27BzQLo
What took you that long ;) nice to get some extra example of configuring a trigger and yes FFT please :)
...

I have been so busy and this poor instrument was waiting for review.

Review videos honestly take the most time. I can do two or even three repair videos in a weekend, but reviews can take many days. I have to make sure I do the instrument justice and highlight its strengths and weaknesses in a fair and relevant way by designing experiments, study data sheet and since nothing is scripted I have to make sure I am not being verbose at all.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 12:57:38 pm by Hugoneus »
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Offline JxR

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #595 on: July 29, 2019, 03:18:43 pm »
I couldn't justify the extra price for the DAQ6510 + Cards though, most of it is present in the DMM6500 and I would probably not use the cards very often assuming I would buy one.
edit: Also the DMM6500 has a 10A input at the back while the DAQ6510 is limited to 3A with a high burden voltage.

Yes, I couldn't justify the price difference at the time either when I picked up the DMM6500.

The 7700 series scan cards are obviously more versatile.  The 7700 card having both a CJT and 2x relays dedicated for up to 3A current.  The 2000-SCAN also has two relays for current measurement but they are 1A max, and can only be used with shunt resistors to measure the voltage drop (so no actual direct current measurement as far as I can tell).

For the most part I was happy with the DMM6500 since you had the option to do simultaneous V/I measurements, although there is a serious flaw with that either in hardware or software (not sure which since Keithley went dead silent after I pointed it out to them). I can only guess its in the hardware, but who knows since they won't discuss it.

Either way I became a bit more interested in picking up a scan card, but obviously prefer something like a 7700 card over the 2000-SCAN.  Regardless, I don't see myself buying a DAQ6510 any time soon and the DMM7510 doesn't share the V/I measurement flaw that the DMM6500 has, so I'm content for the most part.  Maybe one day I will get the DAQ, but it would be next year time frame at the earliest (if at all).
 

Online MegaVolt

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #596 on: July 29, 2019, 05:23:38 pm »
although there is a serious flaw with that either in hardware or software (not sure which since Keithley went dead silent after I pointed it out to them). I can only guess its in the hardware, but who knows since they won't discuss it.
Could you clarify the details of this problem?
 

Offline JxR

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #597 on: July 29, 2019, 05:49:12 pm »
Could you clarify the details of this problem?

Sure.  I mentioned it a 2-3 pages back, but here is the setup and pics below.  This occurs on the 100V range when the circuit is setup to perform simultaneous V/I measurement.  The larger the current in the circuit, the greater the effect.  I chose 9V as the source to make it easy to switch between the 10V and 100V ranges.  I use a 10R power resistor so the current is high, but not high enough to force me to use the 3A range (although the effect in the 3A/10A ranges are the same).

Basic Setup:
-Manually select DCA Range of 1A
-Manually select DCV Range of 10V
-Auto Impedance or 10M impedance is fine

Simple Circuit:
797844-0

DMM6500 on 10V/1A Ranges:
797850-1

DMM6500 on 100V/1A Ranges (Notice the large unexplained voltage drop):
797856-2

For comparison:

DMM7510 on 10V/1A Ranges:
797862-3

DMM7510 on 100V/1A Ranges (No large voltage drop):
797868-4

You don't have to use the exact values I did for the test circuit, but the more current through the circuit the better, since at very small currents you will not see much of a difference.  Try it with even larger voltages/current and see larger drops that can't be explained solely by burden voltage.

Keithley originally tried to blame my power supply as the problem.  But then I showed them the results using a battery.  They have been silent ever since.  I even asked if I should send my DMM6550 in for warranty work, and they wouldn't even respond to that.  I technically don't even know if it is just my specific DMM6550 that is the problem, but Keithley complete silence is not reassuring.

Edit: All I do is swap the test leads between the DMM6500 and DMM7510, no other changes are made.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 01:36:15 pm by JxR »
 
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Online MegaVolt

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #598 on: July 29, 2019, 06:05:55 pm »
here is the setup and pics below.
How exactly do you connect the device?
For 6500 there is a limit: "Sense terminals on inputs are limited to 10 V range during ratio measurement."
 

Offline JxR

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #599 on: July 29, 2019, 06:08:36 pm »
here is the setup and pics below.
How exactly do you connect the device?
For 6500 there is a limit: "Sense terminals on inputs are limited to 10 V range during ratio measurement."

No sense terminals are used.  The circuit diagram shows the connection points, and the polarity of the measurements in the pictures confirms which terminals I used.

Here are some pics.  Hopefully the wire colors make it clearer.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 06:22:38 pm by JxR »
 
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