Author Topic: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510  (Read 118320 times)

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Online jjoonathan

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #550 on: July 05, 2019, 08:35:54 pm »
If I knew how to configure the relay delay, I'd decrease it for more lively updates. The default configuration is no good for browsing.

The problem here is that I factored selling the 34401a into my purchase justification. The buyer's remorse is hitting pretty hard right now.

I know, I know, I'm the dumbass for not finding a datasheet line where they wrote in blood that their 1MS/s digitizing multimeter with a secondary measurement display can actually simultaneously measure the AC and DC content of a waveform at > 1S/s.

Ugh.  :-\
 

Offline KedasProbe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #551 on: July 06, 2019, 10:43:45 am »
The maybe future FFT app may also give you your DC and AC. (assuming they make it right)

On the other hand, what is the lifetime of these relays at such low freq 1Hz. (1 000 000 to 10 000 000 operations?)
obviously we don't want to break them but aren't we over-cautious?
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
[W. Bruce Cameron]
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #552 on: July 06, 2019, 03:29:29 pm »
What's the deal with the Keithley 2000 being sold new at higher prices than the DMM6500? Are there reasons to stick with the Keithley 2000? Less noise?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2019, 07:15:32 pm by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline exe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #553 on: July 06, 2019, 08:00:16 pm »
What's the deal with the Keithley 2000 being sold new at higher prices than the DMM6500?

Greediness.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #554 on: July 06, 2019, 08:08:49 pm »
Greediness.
The same shops carry both, so I guess that's not it.
 

Offline exe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #555 on: July 06, 2019, 08:17:20 pm »
The same shops carry both, so I guess that's not it.

Wow, I thought you were talking about NOS on ebay, not shops... Didn't know it's still on sale, I thought it was obsolete more than 10 years ago. Amazing.
 

Offline ruffy91

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #556 on: July 06, 2019, 08:17:36 pm »
Most probably the newer DMM was designed with a cheaper BOM and more modern/better components.
 

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #557 on: July 06, 2019, 08:27:09 pm »
Wow, I thought you were talking about NOS on ebay, not shops... Didn't know it's still on sale, I thought it was obsolete more than 10 years ago. Amazing.
It's been the current model until the DMM6500 came out recently. It's obviously still being sold and by high volume sellers too. Those understand the value of shelf space and turnover and won't leave old models laying about in the hopes of selling them at an unrealistic price, so I assume I'm overlooking a demand for them.
 

Offline exe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #558 on: July 07, 2019, 07:28:35 am »
Those understand the value of shelf space and turnover and won't leave old models laying about in the hopes of selling them at an unrealistic price, so I assume I'm overlooking a demand for them.

I had the same question, but didn't find much information except some threads on eevblog. Even if we see some measurements of a particular unit, can we rely that all units are like that? I concluded that we can only rely on specs in datasheets. Spec-wise DMM6500 is similar or better than K2000. If one wants performance, then there is better equipment (e.g., 7.5 and 8.5 digit dmms).

[speculation]
What else can be is may be K2000 is in the list of approved equipment to purchase or something.

Anyway, there is an assumption that they are actively sold. But being stocked doesn't mean they make a lot of sales. May be storage space is cheap-enough to not be bothered about selling them. Big warehouses are in the middle of nowhere, it doesn't cost much to build a big hangar.
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #559 on: July 07, 2019, 08:32:38 am »
In some cases the K2000 is used with computer control, as part of a system and they need a replacement (possibly also new for low volume systems). Sometimes it is also being used to the old meter and some people do not like a touch screen. There could also be some buyers how prefer old an proven over brand new without a proven track record for reliability.

It sometimes happens that some pricing does not make much sense, mistakes are made. A still relatively high inventory of the K2000 could also be a miscalculation from a faster replacement. Sometimes a high price is only there to permit a larger discount.

For the measured performance on individual units, it depends on what to measure. Something like a temperature coefficient or the accuracy of calibration can vary a lot between units.
Other properties like the noise usually does not scatter that much between units - so here one can assume that other units will be similar. There is still some variation in the low frequency noise from thermal sources or popcorn noise of the reference.
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #560 on: July 08, 2019, 09:16:25 am »
My simple TSP script to perform zero calibration.

See "Calibration and Adjustment Manual" DMM6500-905-01B pages 3-7 to 3-14
  • Front-terminal adjustment with a 4-wire short
  • Rear-terminal adjustment with a 4-wire short
  • Front-terminal adjustment with open circuit inputs
  • Rear-terminal adjustment with open circuit inputs

PS. to perform zero calibration procedure i use  Fluke 884X-SHORT
« Last Edit: July 08, 2019, 09:34:35 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline rej

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #561 on: July 11, 2019, 07:21:59 am »
Hello, I´m searching for a bench multimeter and received a DMM6500 from my supplyer. I´m quiet happy with it, but there is one thing i noticed: There is no exact information about the measurement in full screen mode. It just shows V instead of Vdc or Vac. If the slider tab is active it shows "AC Voltage: Front". I miss this information on the full screen mode. The firmware version of my device is 1.0.01f.

Is it the same on your device? Has this changed with the new firmware?
 

Offline drummerdimitri

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #562 on: July 11, 2019, 09:07:37 pm »
I would like to use my DMM6500 to make general purpose temperature measurements (air, heatsink, liquid etc.).

I read that using a 4 wire RTD is the best way to go about it for accuracy but I'm not sure if the meter has a built in Cold Junction Compensation feature.

Can someone assist me with this?
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #563 on: July 11, 2019, 09:27:15 pm »
I would like to use my DMM6500 to make general purpose temperature measurements (air, heatsink, liquid etc.).

I read that using a 4 wire RTD is the best way to go about it for accuracy but I'm not sure if the meter has a built in Cold Junction Compensation feature.

Can someone assist me with this?

You need cold junction compensation for thermocouples. RTD's are resistors, don't need it.
 
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Offline drummerdimitri

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #564 on: July 11, 2019, 09:58:15 pm »
I would like to use my DMM6500 to make general purpose temperature measurements (air, heatsink, liquid etc.).

I read that using a 4 wire RTD is the best way to go about it for accuracy but I'm not sure if the meter has a built in Cold Junction Compensation feature.

Can someone assist me with this?

You need cold junction compensation for thermocouples. RTD's are resistors, don't need it.

Good to know thanks!

How do i set the CJC since I am currently using a K-type thermocouple? Manual was too complicated I need a simpler guide.
 

Offline windsmurf

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #565 on: July 11, 2019, 11:23:50 pm »
Greediness.
The same shops carry both, so I guess that's not it.

Still could be greediness... some companies may have validated/standardized on the 2000 and can only purchase that model, so why reduce prices?   

It might also be getting used as a psychological tool to make people think the DMM6500 is such a bargain.   ;D
 

Online JxR

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #566 on: July 11, 2019, 11:25:36 pm »
How do i set the CJC since I am currently using a K-type thermocouple? Manual was too complicated I need a simpler guide.

Unless you have a scanner card, you can only use the simulated CJC.  Best way I know to calibrate a K-Type is with an insulated cup full of ice with water added ( then wait about 5 mins).  Set your simulated cold junction to 0C/32F.  Then continuously stir the ice water with the thermocouple inside.  Use the relative calculation to compensate to 0C/32F once you have the temperature stabilized.  Record the relative value and put it on a tape/label and attach to the thermocouple so you don't have to do the calibration again in the future.

Or just buy a 4-wire PT100 RTD.  Plug it in, and your pretty much done.  You can go through the calibration procedure above, but they are pretty much spot on from my experience.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 11:30:23 pm by JxR »
 
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Offline drummerdimitri

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #567 on: July 11, 2019, 11:44:42 pm »
How do i set the CJC since I am currently using a K-type thermocouple? Manual was too complicated I need a simpler guide.

Unless you have a scanner card, you can only use the simulated CJC.  Best way I know to calibrate a K-Type is with an insulated cup full of ice with water added ( then wait about 5 mins).  Set your simulated cold junction to 0C/32F.  Then continuously stir the ice water with the thermocouple inside.  Use the relative calculation to compensate to 0C/32F once you have the temperature stabilized.  Record the relative value and put it on a tape/label and attach to the thermocouple so you don't have to do the calibration again in the future.

Or just buy a 4-wire PT100 RTD.  Plug it in, and your pretty much done.  You can go through the calibration procedure above, but they are pretty much spot on from my experience.

Great explanation thanks! Will be getting an RTD from Aliexpress should be good enough for my needs.
 

Offline cozdas

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #568 on: July 12, 2019, 05:35:57 am »
Is it the same on your device? Has this changed with the new firmware?

It's the same in the latest firmware.
 

Offline KedasProbe

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #569 on: July 12, 2019, 07:02:36 am »
Hello, I´m searching for a bench multimeter and received a DMM6500 from my supplyer. I´m quiet happy with it, but there is one thing i noticed: There is no exact information about the measurement in full screen mode. It just shows V instead of Vdc or Vac. If the slider tab is active it shows "AC Voltage: Front". I miss this information on the full screen mode. The firmware version of my device is 1.0.01f.

Is it the same on your device? Has this changed with the new firmware?
They do have free space to keep the text bar above with this info visible. (they even have free room for the range without changing the size of the reading)
But what I do for graphs for example is that I go to the internal web page so it's big on my screen, (obviously you need a PC but could be a small one with big monitor)
And yes you can press the touchscreen with your mouse. (although swipe with your mouse isn't that obvious)
Refresh is a bit slower but still fast, and doesn't refresh while doing high sample rates though. (priorities)

edit added screenshots + what is possible:
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 02:02:04 pm by KedasProbe »
Not everything that counts can be measured. Not everything that can be measured counts.
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Offline rej

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #570 on: July 12, 2019, 07:22:06 am »
@KedasProbe

Thanks for your answer. I just send an email to Keithley about that topic. Lets see what they think about that.
 

Offline AG7CK

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #571 on: July 18, 2019, 09:29:50 am »
First, thanks to Brad O for trying to help me to find a (somewhat) rational way to by a DMM6500 in Thailand last year. I tried several ways but finally gave it up.

This year however, I decided to bite the dust and try to navigate myself through element14's web page in Thai (the flag button for English does not only change the language - it also sends you to the UK web page that of course cannot sell and ship to Thailand). So with the help of translation tools and dumb luck (there is no way known to me for translating button and menu text, so you just push/choose and hope for the best ...)

I managed to buy a meter more or less blindly  :o
They have now debited my card  :scared: :phew: :-DMM :clap:

I have read most of the thread before, but I would like fresh answers:

1) Can I get the calibration data after I have the serial number? If so, how?

2) Is there a free Kickstart now? Or a test license?

3) I would like to have RS232 or GPIB data out (instrument control is not important for me), but I did not buy any modules. I find them high priced. So I ask if there is a way to set the instrument in 'Talk-Only' mode so that it streams data that can be sniffed by the hobbyist?

Thanks.
 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #572 on: July 18, 2019, 10:48:41 am »
3) I would like to have RS232 or GPIB data out
Nop... only with KTTI-GPIB or KTTI-RS232 extension modules.


I find them high priced.
Price for any Keithley(or Keysight) modules always extremely high.

So I ask if there is a way to set the instrument in 'Talk-Only' mode so that it streams data that can be sniffed by the hobbyist?
You can use LXI. I use Raspberry Pi with my LXIIDL apps or PC with KickStart apps to loging data.

1) Can I get the calibration data after I have the serial number? If so, how?
As i  known - no. You can ask Keithley about "C/NEW DATA" "C/NEW DATA ISO" contracts, but i think it may be also high price.

2) Is there a free Kickstart now? Or a test license?
Yes trial is available - 30 days or so... i use that before buying license.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 11:02:45 am by shodan@micron »
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Offline AG7CK

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #573 on: July 18, 2019, 02:45:40 pm »
Thank you shodan@micron for your information.

I have looked at your LXI page. I do have a RPI3+ w/ a 10inch touch screen in a (tablet-like) case called RasPad. I have used it with Python, but have never used ethernet-stuff. I will put it up as a new project. Thanks.

As for serial data I would still like an answer from Tektronix if it would be possible to sniff measurement data using the PCB pins/edge connector inside the communication cover/slot. I make a living in a field where most PC-related stuff after XP is regarded as unsuited for reliable long time data logging, so Kickstart on a modern laptop PC is not a first choice for me.

And if all else fails I can just buy a communication module  :-/O

PS
I looked at your web site. Do you sell LM399 or LTZ1000 board with measurement data?

 

Offline shodan@micron

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Re: New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510
« Reply #574 on: July 18, 2019, 02:50:24 pm »
I looked at your web site. Do you sell LM399 or LTZ1000 board with measurement data?
No. I doing that  just for fun.

I have used it with Python, but have never used ethernet-stuff. I will put it up as a new project. Thanks.
I try that with PyVISA, not works at all. That library require NI-VISA drivers, but cannot install on RPi's.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 05:17:53 am by shodan@micron »
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