New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510

[2N3055]

Did you short out (or put some resistor) across the voltage inputs of the meters? Otherwise, they do read zero but its not an accurate representation of what happens if some voltage source is connected.

No, I forgot to short them, hence why on low ranges they were collecting charge (GOhms). But they behaved exactly the same when nothing is connected (also to current input) so I assume it is fine. DMM6500 was also tested the same way and yet it showed 2.5V out of nowhere, on 10MOhm ranges that don't accumulate that much charge.

Rigol DM3068 also didn't measure anything without shorting voltage input. I guess when shorted, we measure internal voltage drop on that branch of ground caused by current flow...

It all means pretty much nothing. It is using meter outside intended use..
Fact that you can program it, doesn't mean you can do what hardware wasn't meant to do...

[iMo]

What would be the typical "use cases" for such a setup (provided all work fine) with one common terminal? Normally, I would expect something like - to measure a voltage between the nodes A and B, and the current in any wire in my wiring. Thus I would need V+ V- and I+ and I- terminals, all floating.

[KedasProbe]

Rigol DM3068 also didn't measure anything without shorting voltage input. I guess when shorted, we measure internal voltage drop on that branch of ground caused by current flow...

It all means pretty much nothing. It is using meter outside intended use..
Fact that you can program it, doesn't mean you can do what hardware wasn't meant to do...

When you try second measurement on the DM3068 it shows a pop-up message on the screen that voltage measurement and current measurement can not be combined. Although I think they designed it with the possibility in mind and disabled it later.

It could be that a firmware update just disables the option for the DMM6500

[KedasProbe]

Hi,

Just to let you know that I updated the linear conversion script
https://github.com/Ken26M/keithley/blob/dev/Instrument_Examples/DMM6500/LinearConversion.tsp

I added a few defaults, including 1 to 1, I let you figure out why

[Kleinstein]

What would be the typical "use cases" for such a setup (provided all work fine) with one common terminal? Normally, I would expect something like - to measure a voltage between the nodes A and B, and the current in any wire in my wiring. Thus I would need V+ V- and I+ and I- terminals, all floating.

A possibel such case would be measuring the voltage / current relationship of something nonlinear (e.g. a incandescent lamp, input side of SMPS). The classical setup is to use 2 meters, one for current and the other for voltage. Doing both reading with the same meter, without disconnecting the wires and upsetting the current flow would be a nice plus. This meter could even combine the data and plot the curve.

[KedasProbe]

Basically high voltages >10V combined with low current <1mA won't really notice the 30µV voltage drop.
For other combinations you would need to take it into account that you have a variable offset or use two DMM.
(assuming the big error of the 100V/1000V range is fixed)

[Kleinstein]

The higher error is likely from the way the divider is connected. So there likely is no fix to the higher error in the 100/1000 V ranges. So the less critical voltages would be more some 2-10V.

One may be able to correct some of the coupling, but chances are the internal resistance is copper wiring and maybe contact resistance (front to rear switch), so it would not be very stable. Still some correction (e.g. 95%) is better than the full error. 

[drummerdimitri]

Anyone else having major lag/freezing and crashing issues with their DMM6500?

It's so bad I'm having a hard time using the damn thing! I've upgraded to the latest firmware and this issue still persists  :-

How are you dealing with this major annoyance?

[KedasProbe]

I had a crash on my first day use but haven't had it since.
What I do though is I don't change the def1buffer size and don't use the apps. (I do use scripts)
I assume they have some memory problems with changing buffer sizes.
I use USB and network.

[KedasProbe]

Is it possible to load an lua module?
like:
complex = require "complex"
https://github.com/h4rm/luafft/blob/master/src/luafft.lua

[drummerdimitri]

This DMM is completely unusable and extremely frustrating! 

This can't possibly be right!

I've attached a short clip demonstrating how the instrument is totally unresponsive. I can't be the only one having these issues right?

https://mega.nz/#!MZURjIxQ!z3RixZ78lUd9IsXTKDPOkJ3QRNn7nYZNAlUjnb4h_-4

[MegaVolt]

I've attached a short clip demonstrating how the instrument is totally unresponsive. I can't be the only one having these issues right?

It seems like a malfunction of the device.

[drummerdimitri]

This DMM is completely unusable and extremely frustrating!

Seems like your DMM want repair.
I use 6500 about 1 year - all works fine, captivate touch is very sensitive, and working on all my touches.

How can I tell if the touchscreen is the culprit or a bad firmware?

[cozdas]

This DMM is completely unusable and extremely frustrating! 

This can't possibly be right!

I've attached a short clip demonstrating how the instrument is totally unresponsive. I can't be the only one having these issues right?

https://mega.nz/#!MZURjIxQ!z3RixZ78lUd9IsXTKDPOkJ3QRNn7nYZNAlUjnb4h_-4

The firmware has rough edges, looks like people at Keithley made sure that the main use cases are mostly error free but if you go well outside the typical use cases it misbehaves. When I got my unit early this year it was crashing/freezing multiple times a day, probably because I was clicking the buttons, doing things outside of the typical use scenarios. After my learning phase ended the problems went away.

There are known issues, one is with swap screen and some scripts and applications. Brad O. said somewhere above that they were hoping to get a new firmware late March 2019 but that didn't happen and he got silent recently. Hope they are still working on a bug-fix firmware to be released sometime soon.

Anyhow if you installed some apps, scripts, especially a startup script, you may want to do a system reset and check again. With the current firmware it's easy to put the unit in an unstable state.

[drummerdimitri]

This DMM is completely unusable and extremely frustrating! 

This can't possibly be right!

I've attached a short clip demonstrating how the instrument is totally unresponsive. I can't be the only one having these issues right?

https://mega.nz/#!MZURjIxQ!z3RixZ78lUd9IsXTKDPOkJ3QRNn7nYZNAlUjnb4h_-4

The firmware has rough edges, looks like people at Keithley made sure that the main use cases are mostly error free but if you go well outside the typical use cases it misbehaves. When I got my unit early this year it was crashing/freezing multiple times a day, probably because I was clicking the buttons, doing things outside of the typical use scenarios. After my learning phase ended the problems went away.

There are known issues, one is with swap screen and some scripts and applications. Brad O. said somewhere above that they were hoping to get a new firmware late March 2019 but that didn't happen and he got silent recently. Hope they are still working on a bug-fix firmware to be released sometime soon.

Anyhow if you installed some apps, scripts, especially a startup script, you may want to do a system reset and check again. With the current firmware it's easy to put the unit in an unstable state.

I have installed 5 scripts onto the machine. Will try to remove those to see if the unit will work normally again.

[drummerdimitri]

I've noticed that the placement of the DMM6500 affects this issue. When it was placed on a shelf as can be seen in the video, the issue appears. Now that I have it placed on my wooden computer desk it is back to working normally again

My theory is that the surface of whatever the DMM is sitting on and/or my position relative to the DMM is somehow affecting the capacitance of my finger which results in a functional or non function touchscreen 

Have I gone mad or does this make any sense?

[drummerdimitri]

I've noticed that the placement of the DMM6500 affects this issue. When it was placed on a shelf as can be seen in the video, the issue appears. Now that I have it placed on my wooden computer desk it is back to working normally again

My theory is that the surface of whatever the DMM is sitting on and/or my position relative to the DMM is somehow affecting the capacitance of my finger which results in a functional or non function touchscreen 

Have I gone mad or does this make any sense?

Never-mind, the problem is the power source.

For some reason it works fine when powered from the wall socket in my bedroom but not in another room 

How does this make any sense?! Could it be that the instrument does not work properly when power from one of the 3 phases powering my house? Could it be a question of harmonics disturbing the sensitive components inside the meter?

I tried isolating the unit form the mains by powering it up from a pure sinewave inverter using a lead acid battery but the issue persisted.

[AG7CK]

According to the forum page for Brad O, he was last active "June 14, 2019, 09:29:26 pm". His last post here seems to be June 7. He has not answered a private message I sent some 10+ days ago. Maybe the Danaher Group don't find it profitable to let him use his time here   

My DMM6500 works OK out of the box (Calibration dated March 2019). It has survived 3-10 black- and brownouts a day. It even runs on down to 160-70 volt AC line voltage (I live in the countryside in not particularly developed NE-Thailand).

                                                   ------ EDIT August 15 ------
Yesterday I sent a an email to Tek support just to try once more. This time I got all my 3 cases solved in a matter of hours. So I must change my view of the support given by Keithley/Tektronix US this time to a very positive one. I do however write "US" (i.e. Americas) above because I have not changed my view on support emails I got from China/Singapore.

So I am now quite a happy user of DMM6500 with full calibration data and Kickstart running. Let us hope Brad O or another Keithley representative comes back here so that the forum can report bugs in a single place.
- END of edit

- ORIGINAL post continued - but I am quite a lot more positive regarding support now:
I probably will never change firmware or program the box. Why? Because over the last 2 weeks in some 30+ emails back and forth with "support" persons in Keithley / Tektronix / Fluke (all Danaher) that redirected me around from Shanghai to Singapore to Thailand to the US and back and around and ... again and again, I have lost all hope of finding anything that (imo) even only remotely could be labeled helpful resulting from opening a support ticket. But I am OK. With the good reference manual, you will do fine as long as the box works. If it stops working - well, then ...

Good luck
- END of old post - please see EDIT above as I have changed my view since writing this.

[Kleinstein]

I've noticed that the placement of the DMM6500 affects this issue. When it was placed on a shelf as can be seen in the video, the issue appears. Now that I have it placed on my wooden computer desk it is back to working normally again

My theory is that the surface of whatever the DMM is sitting on and/or my position relative to the DMM is somehow affecting the capacitance of my finger which results in a functional or non function touchscreen 

Have I gone mad or does this make any sense?

Never-mind, the problem is the power source.

For some reason it works fine when powered from the wall socket in my bedroom but not in another room 

How does this make any sense?! Could it be that the instrument does not work properly when power from one of the 3 phases powering my house? Could it be a question of harmonics disturbing the sensitive components inside the meter?

I tried isolating the unit form the mains by powering it up from a pure sinewave inverter using a lead acid battery but the issue persisted.

It could be a grounding issue. The touch-screen may work better if the instrument is properly grounded ( PE via the mains cable).

[eplpwr]

!!!!DANGEROUS!!!!

Hi dear Brad O.

Hardware bug report:

DMM6500 do not compatible with Keithley 4299-9 Dual Fixed Rack-Mount Kit for 2U Graphical Display Instruments.

When i install front rack ear, down screw cannot install properly. That screew is too long and break current sense terminal if install it on full lenght.


PS.I use nut as spacer, for install that screw to proper letght... but it bad way... you need fix dmm6500! With 2450 that ear install's properly.

I can confirm the very same problem with DAQ6510 as well. Very bad engineering of 4299-9 RM kit.

[drummerdimitri]

I've noticed that the placement of the DMM6500 affects this issue. When it was placed on a shelf as can be seen in the video, the issue appears. Now that I have it placed on my wooden computer desk it is back to working normally again

My theory is that the surface of whatever the DMM is sitting on and/or my position relative to the DMM is somehow affecting the capacitance of my finger which results in a functional or non function touchscreen 

Have I gone mad or does this make any sense?

Never-mind, the problem is the power source.

For some reason it works fine when powered from the wall socket in my bedroom but not in another room 

How does this make any sense?! Could it be that the instrument does not work properly when power from one of the 3 phases powering my house? Could it be a question of harmonics disturbing the sensitive components inside the meter?

I tried isolating the unit form the mains by powering it up from a pure sinewave inverter using a lead acid battery but the issue persisted.

It could be a grounding issue. The touch-screen may work better if the instrument is properly grounded ( PE via the mains cable).

That could very well be the case, however the issue is that in Lebanon we do not install a ground connection for in residences so how can I properly ground the instrument to assure the touchscreen would work properly?

Could I create an artificial ground somehow?

[KedasProbe]

How can I tell if the touchscreen is the culprit or a bad firmware?

Easy, when you have a buttons that do not respond anymore, go to the webinterface an try to click it with your mouse.
If it works you know it's the touchscreen.
(keep in mind that dragging with the mouse doesn't work very well, so you cannot test that)

And also if you pressed "copy to  power up" in run scripts with a bad script it could put it in a bad situation every time you reboot. (not sure if that is erased with a reset or if you have to overwrite it)
Attached the default "empty script" you can load. (remove .txt)

[The Soulman]

It could be a grounding issue. The touch-screen may work better if the instrument is properly grounded ( PE via the mains cable).

That could very well be the case, however the issue is that in Lebanon we do not install a ground connection for in residences so how can I properly ground the instrument to assure the touchscreen would work properly?

Could I create an artificial ground somehow?

You could use any metal plumbing in your house, but this may be illegal and could be dangerous when the dmm6500
develops a short circuit between mains and ground, at least wire in a 30mA rcd.
Better is using a separate grounding rod if soil conditions allow (wet and soft is ideal, dry and hard is not).

[Wintel]

Does the DMM6500 can show one more digits, the 7.5th Digits in the STATISTICS screen like Keysight 34465A?

In Keysight 34465A, when enable the MATH -> Statistics function, the screen can display one more digits (the 7.5th Digits) in Average, like Average: +10.000,123 V, does DMM6500 can get the 7.5th Digits in the STATISTICS screen ?

[hwj-d]

@Wintel

No doubleposts, please.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/someone-ask-me-to-buy-which-dmm-keysight-34465a-or-keitley-dmm6500/msg2609490/#msg2609490