Author Topic: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)  (Read 10269 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 746
  • Country: us
  • ALL THE SCOPES!
    • Keysight Scopes YouTube channel
New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« on: January 14, 2019, 10:54:06 pm »
There's another thread on this, but I thought I'd put everything together on one page. We launched a new 1000 X-Series scope on 8-Jan! It's the 4-channel version of the 1000 X-Series.

We're also giving a bunch of them away here: http://bit.ly/Wave2019_EEVBlog (tell your friends)

Website:
https://www.keysight.com/en/pcx-2759552/infiniivision-1000-x-series-oscilloscopes?cc=US&lc=eng

Datasheet:

Quick overview:

2 models:
DSOX1204A
DSOX1204G (the "G" has the built-in WaveGen)

3 bandwidths -  70, 100, 200 MHz (software upgradeable)

Key features:

Standard:
Frequency Response Analyzer (G models)
20 MHz WaveGen + Arb (G models)
5 digit Frequency counter
Digital Voltmeter (Free with product registration)
Mask testing
70 MHz

Upgrades:
I2C + SPI + RS232 protocol decoding license
CAN + LIN protocol decoding license
100 MHz bandwidth
200 MHz bandwidth

Approximate pricing:
$998 for the 70 MHz base model – DSOX1204A
$1204 for the base model (with built in generator) - DSOX1204G
+$350 for 70 to 100 MHz upgrade
+$700 for 70 to 200 MHz upgrade
+$350 for 100 to 200 MHz upgrade
+$155 for Embedded Serial Triggering and Analysis (I2C, SPI, RS232) – D1200EMBA
+$155 for Automotive Serial Triggering and Analysis (CAN, LIN) – D1200AUTA

Includes four N2140A 200 MHz switchable 10:1/1:1 passive probes
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 10:58:02 pm by Keysight DanielBogdanoff »
 
The following users thanked this post: odessa, fpliuzzi, rsjsouza, AndyC_772, Gandalf_Sr, PTR_1275, TheSteve, s8548a

Offline fanOfeeDIY

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 390
  • Country: jp
    • YouTube Channel
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2019, 01:15:11 pm »
Thank you for the great information.
I have to update the oscilloscope chart   :D
Maybe this weekend...
 
The following users thanked this post: Keysight DanielBogdanoff

Offline Gandalf_Sr

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1744
  • Country: us
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2019, 01:57:53 pm »
Daniel,

These look like really nice scopes, I think the selection of features for the price range is just right.  The Decision to make these 4-channel is a very good one IMHO.

Do we need to be listening in on the online presentation to win?
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 
The following users thanked this post: Keysight DanielBogdanoff

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4522
  • Country: de
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2019, 02:42:51 pm »
Thanks for the info.
It's nice, that you can offer a 4 channel scope with so many features for such little money.

So, almost a year has passed since the last wave? Time really flies fast these days.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: Keysight DanielBogdanoff

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1604
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2019, 03:32:28 pm »
Approximate pricing:
$998 for the 70 MHz base model – DSOX1204A
$1204 for the base model (with built in generator) - DSOX1204G
on Keysight.com it says $1348 for the A model as Typical Price, but includes the 100MHz upgrade!!... you should correct it to say $998 as at the beginning it scared me but if it is $998, I might consider buying one
 

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 746
  • Country: us
  • ALL THE SCOPES!
    • Keysight Scopes YouTube channel
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2019, 04:47:17 pm »
@TK - Sorry for the confusion! I'll pass your feedback along to the team, I don't remember the logic of when we use "typically configured price" vs. "base price" on the web.

@Gandalf_Sr - no, you don't have to be watching.
 
The following users thanked this post: Gandalf_Sr, Jacon

Offline Twasnow

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2019, 10:03:46 pm »
I've been waiting for this DSOX1204G to get in to stock in march, but SIGLENT has the SDS2204X

This DSOX1204G looks like a great offering from a very reputable brand, but for pretty much the same price there is the Siglent SDS2204X (actually a few bucks cheaper once all options are added).
 
I haven't used either scope, and the fine details (fft functions, usability, etc.) I don't know. but on paper it seems like the Siglent is superior in specs and and has more features (logic analyzer)

140,000wfm/s - 500,000wfm/s in a sequence mode (not sure what this really means)
slightly larger screen (8 inch vs 7 inch)
16 bit logic analyzer including probe
25Mhz function gen. instead of 20mhz (not a huge deal)
all serial bus decoders for $250 less.

140Mpts memory with up to 80,000 segments ( instead of 1Mpts )



so what am I missing that might make the  keysight DSOX1204G the better choice (I don't NEED logic analyzer, but it would be nice)

To make it clear I really don't know which way to go! and I have no idea if specs can be trusted at face value.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 10:25:37 pm by Twasnow »
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19596
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2019, 10:26:38 pm »
To make it clear I really don't know which way to go!
Let's try and help......

Which specs in particular are important, like what must you have ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Twasnow

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 5
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2019, 10:57:45 pm »
well, they both have everything I MUST have,

(I currently run a HP 54512B, but it's getting sleepy, and I really want something more modern with proper memory (8k I believe on this scope)

The really want the decoding (all of it, I am designing for CAN bus a lot and I2C a lot)

I have never bought Chinese test equipment (save for a few beater linear power supplies) even my main portable multi-meter is the Agilent U1253B, so I am a little leery making a jump to Siglent.

I primarily do embedded systems for use in robotics and industrial controls (non-PLC based) so a pretty good mix of analog circuitry, digital, and communications. (I'm not getting in to any RF communications design, I'll pull off the shelf.. always)





 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19596
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2019, 11:45:54 pm »
well, they both have everything I MUST have,

(I currently run a HP 54512B, but it's getting sleepy, and I really want something more modern with proper memory (8k I believe on this scope)

The really want the decoding (all of it, I am designing for CAN bus a lot and I2C a lot)

I have never bought Chinese test equipment (save for a few beater linear power supplies) even my main portable multi-meter is the Agilent U1253B, so I am a little leery making a jump to Siglent.

I primarily do embedded systems for use in robotics and industrial controls (non-PLC based) so a pretty good mix of analog circuitry, digital, and communications. (I'm not getting in to any RF communications design, I'll pull off the shelf.. always)
Great, thanks.
Just a jump to 10+ Mpts/ch will open up another world for you then.  :)
Decode for the SDS2kX range is an $ option while you can have it for free in the X-E models however I see 4ch is a primary need so that rules out the SDS2000X-E 2ch range.  :(

I can't see any reason why a $499 SDS1104X-E couldn't meet your needs bar it doesn't have an inbuilt AWG.
It's a MSO too like the SDS2kX models but they have a much nicer probe set and no need for the external MSO box like X-E models.
I'd say keep looking and familiarize yourself with the specs of other models available.
Happy hunting.  :)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20104
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2019, 11:49:35 pm »
The really want the decoding (all of it, I am designing for CAN bus a lot and I2C a lot)
If you are really after decoding then look at the R&S RTB2000 too. Maybe outside the budget but R&S really put much thought into cramming as much information as possible on the screen. For example: if you make the decoder traces higher, the texts rotate 90 degrees when the boxes get smaller so there is more room horizontally to show packets without losing the information. I don't know whether R&S is the only one doing this but I have not seen this on other oscilloscopes.

Sorry for going off-topic in this thread but Tautech is peddling Siglent as well  8) I'll stop right here.

Edit: one advantage of the Keysight though is that it can decode across segments and use the list display to jump from one segment to the other. In turn I have not seen any other oscilloscopes do that.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 11:55:50 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1604
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2019, 12:38:49 am »
Edit: one advantage of the Keysight though is that it can decode across segments and use the list display to jump from one segment to the other. In turn I have not seen any other oscilloscopes do that.
I am not sure the Keysight 1000X series has list display for serial decoding, are you referring to 2000 / 3000 series?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9700
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2019, 12:57:20 am »
Do Siglents have the same hardware based processing, like decoding and the interface? I thought they don't.
 

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3002
  • Country: hr
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2019, 07:37:53 am »
Do Siglents have the same hardware based processing, like decoding and the interface? I thought they don't.

Hardware based processing is nice for speed but is crap sometimes.
If you capture something, and then switch on decoding it won't decode anything. You need to recapture, because decoding works in capture time not display.
With software decode you can see something and than switch on decoding, even experiment if this is this or that.

Every solution has it's pros' and cons, and what is best for you depends heavily on what you do and what is your process.
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 20104
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2019, 09:09:37 am »
Edit: one advantage of the Keysight though is that it can decode across segments and use the list display to jump from one segment to the other. In turn I have not seen any other oscilloscopes do that.
I am not sure the Keysight 1000X series has list display for serial decoding, are you referring to 2000 / 3000 series?
I don't know about the 1000X series. I'd assume a scope with decoding has a list display...
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline MrW0lf

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 921
  • Country: ee
    • lab!fyi
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2019, 09:25:59 am »
Edit: one advantage of the Keysight though is that it can decode across segments and use the list display to jump from one segment to the other. In turn I have not seen any other oscilloscopes do that.

All Picoscopes.
 

Offline Calvin

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 102
  • Country: de
    • Calvin´s audio page
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2019, 09:29:07 am »
Hi,

Quote
It's nice, that you can offer a 4 channel scope with so many features for such little money.
Is that really ´such little money´?
A similar equipped Keysight with 200MHz and bus decoders -still with not as many features and functionality as the Siglent SDS1204X-E- costs >2k€ ... almost 3 times as much.
From the pictures it is a GWInstek OEM ... hence also of chinese origin.
Honest question ... in what regard is the Keysight better or offers more to close the financial gap?

regards
Calvin

..... it builds character!
 

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3002
  • Country: hr
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2019, 10:23:31 am »
With my apologies to Daniel and Keysight , I personally wouldn't recommend any of their scopes less than 3000 series.
3000 series is amazingly fast, both in user responsiveness and in retrigger time and is pleasure to use.
It also has very short memory, and as such is not good for lots of decoding, or looking at long captures.
But as interactive scope is the best.

On the other hand, what is pretty much a single flaw with 3000T (short sample memory) is many times worse with 1000X and 2000 series, and also waveform capture rate is much slower on 1000x/2000 (which was one of good things with 3000). So you get worst of the both worlds.

If you are looking at 1000X series class, from A manufacturer you have RTB2000 that will give you 20x the scope in every regard,but for more money, or you can look at the GW Instek MSO/MDO/GDS-2000E that are fantastic scopes, and also Siglent 1000X-E or even Rigol MSO5000 series (still really new, but will be stable in coming months) for much less money and much better capabilities.

P.S.: I own a fully optioned 3000T and love it for what it is. But also own a Picoscope 3406D MSO, because it has 512MS sample memory. I use that one for decoding if I need to decode something seriously. If I had to have only one scope, and wanted to decode , I would choose one with long memory. There is no replacement for that and bandwidth.
 

Online JPortici

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2687
  • Country: it
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2019, 10:30:23 am »
But also own a Picoscope 3406D MSO, because it has 512MS sample memory. I use that one for decoding if I need to decode something seriously. If I had to have only one scope, and wanted to decode , I would choose one with long memory

but don't forget that you can't trigger on decode.. and more importantly, on decode errors.
If i had to have only one scope and wanted to devoce i would choose one that has the required protocol and can trigger on errors, then memory, then bandwidth.

But besides that, ditto everything except the rigol 5000. The more i see of it the more i see them repeating the same old errors again and again.
 

Offline Smokey

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1633
  • Country: us
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2019, 10:49:13 am »
I tend to agree that 1Mpt memory is just not enough these days for a new scope in this price range.

Who's the target customer here, Tek TDS3000 users that are desperate for anything over 10kpt?

What's the reasoning on releasing a new product line with such low memory?  Is it just to not cannibalize the sales of higher end products?  I can't see it's actually a parts cost issue for the memory chips.  Trying to squeeze the last bit of life from an old custom ASIC?
(that was a lot of question marks....)
 
The following users thanked this post: hugo, Jacon, petrinch

Offline 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3002
  • Country: hr
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2019, 11:21:06 am »
but don't forget that you can't trigger on decode.. and more importantly, on decode errors.
If i had to have only one scope and wanted to devoce i would choose one that has the required protocol and can trigger on errors, then memory, then bandwidth.

But besides that, ditto everything except the rigol 5000. The more i see of it the more i see them repeating the same old errors again and again.

Agree. Complained to Pico many times about that.  But despite that, my pico has huuge memory and in segmented mode you can capture hours of slow traffic and then just filter.
But sometimes that is not enough, so I use Keysight for it's trigger to pinpoint errors, and even sometimes to cross trigger...

I also don't like some design decisions on new Rigols. But still, at least, on this new platform there is room to grow and we'll see if they fix some problems.
I personally like direction in which Siglent is going with these new scopes much better .

But if someone would give me Keysight 3000T with 50MS per ch sample memory depth, that would be hard to beat.
I think that if new 1000X from Keysight had 10Mpoints per ch (like GW Instek) that would be something fantastic.

This way, it is just 2000 without MSO, smaller case and no individual controls per ch.
It's an art of giving less not giving more to your customers.
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1604
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2019, 11:30:47 am »
Edit: one advantage of the Keysight though is that it can decode across segments and use the list display to jump from one segment to the other. In turn I have not seen any other oscilloscopes do that.
I am not sure the Keysight 1000X series has list display for serial decoding, are you referring to 2000 / 3000 series?
I don't know about the 1000X series. I'd assume a scope with decoding has a list display...
Not the Keysight 1000X series, and micsig added it in the latest firmware
 

Offline pascal_sweden

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1512
  • Country: no
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2019, 11:32:56 am »
Why did you again look over on the Logic Analyzer?
 

Offline w4tch0

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: sk
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2019, 01:00:28 pm »
Hi,

Quote
It's nice, that you can offer a 4 channel scope with so many features for such little money.
Is that really ´such little money´?
A similar equipped Keysight with 200MHz and bus decoders -still with not as many features and functionality as the Siglent SDS1204X-E- costs >2k€ ... almost 3 times as much.
From the pictures it is a GWInstek OEM ... hence also of chinese origin.
Honest question ... in what regard is the Keysight better or offers more to close the financial gap?

regards
Calvin

I came to the same conclusion. In the market for a 4 channel 100MHz scope with I2C/SPI decoding and looking at local retailers pricing the Keysight came in literary 3 times the price. Waiting for some reviews and teardowns to see what might justify the price premium. I hope they at least improved the internal build quality. The 2 channel 1000x series was major disappointment in this regard.
 

Offline TK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1604
  • Country: us
  • I am a Systems Analyst who plays with Electronics
Re: New Keysight 4 Channel Scope (1200 X-Series)
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2019, 01:06:11 pm »
I hope they at least improved the internal build quality. The 2 channel 1000x series was major disappointment in this regard.
Can you list the issues you had with the 1000X build quality?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf