Author Topic: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!  (Read 9176 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alm

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2903
  • Country: 00
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2022, 11:35:13 am »
Clearly with that kind of auto-ranging behavior there will be a switching pre-regulator, probably followed by a linear regulator for better noise and transient response.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 02:07:29 pm by alm »
 

Offline gamalot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1397
  • Country: au
  • Correct my English
    • Youtube
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2022, 12:17:52 pm »
It's in the BenchVue software supported instruments list.  You guys have found it already ...... :palm:
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 12:20:10 pm by gamalot »
I'm a poet, I didn't even know it. |  https://youtube.com/@gamalot | https://github.com/gamalot
 

Offline AVGresponding

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4928
  • Country: england
  • Exploring Rabbit Holes Since The 1970s
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2022, 12:24:01 pm »
What's with the big flat head screw type thing in the middle?
The prominent flat head screws off to the side (now that there is a better image) are equally interesting. Field swappable guard? or field swappable terminations?

Could be for a strain relief clamp? You wouldn't want a sudden disconnect if you're running it anywhere near its limits...
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
Addiction count: Agilent-AVO-BlackStar-Brymen-Chauvin Arnoux-Fluke-GenRad-Hameg-HP-Keithley-IsoTech-Mastech-Megger-Metrix-Micronta-Racal-RFL-Siglent-Solartron-Tektronix-Thurlby-Time Electronics-TTi-UniT
 
The following users thanked this post: Someone

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 39025
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2022, 12:24:39 pm »
What's with the big flat head screw type thing in the middle?
The prominent flat head screws off to the side (now that there is a better image) are equally interesting. Field swappable guard? or field swappable terminations?

I reckon swappable terminations so you can permanently wire them into test harnesses.
 

Offline simone.pignatti

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 384
  • Country: it
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2022, 01:14:58 pm »
It is a detachable high current front binding post compliant with the IEC61010.
I guess two PSU models will come, both 800W, 30V-80A and 60V-40A.
Several advanced software features.
Keysight price  :popcorn:
Technical Support
 
The following users thanked this post: AVGresponding

Offline Mike G

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2022, 05:07:47 am »
I wonder if Keysight thought the Envox BB3 was such a capable unit that they should copy it, put it in a posh case for 10x the price with less support and everything useful as an "optional upgrade".
May I politely suggest that if you are looking for something with these capabilities at a very affordable price check out the BB3. Max 80v (series) 10A (parallel)  and yes it can superimpose the arbitrary signal on top of a DC voltage.
It has fantastic development software (free!) where you can design your own GUI and scripts, all open source.
I admit the case is not as slick as the Keysight but the tech support is the best I have known in nearly 50 years in the business.
I now have 3 of these in my workshops

https://www.envox.eu/eez-bb3/
https://www.envox.eu/studio/studio-introduction/
 
The following users thanked this post: nctnico, Towger

Online HalFoster

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 232
  • Country: us
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2022, 11:56:20 am »
Keysight is worthless for anything other than a established business and even then is not recommended for anything other than a 3458A. For new power supplies, there are *much* better options - Siglent, Rigol etc for the consumer/hobbyist market. At work, I very much like various models from Chroma - full featured, durable and with very good manufacturer support.

For personal use, I use a couple of Power Designs TP340As as well as a C500. Kikusui linear supplies are also *highly* recommended.

Hal
--- If it isn't broken... Fix it until it is ---
 

Offline Lorisermejo

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 8
  • Country: it
 
The following users thanked this post: Someone

Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5560
  • Country: de
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2022, 02:11:57 pm »
We have data
https://www.keysight.com/es/en/assets/3122-1798/data-sheets/E36150-Series.pdf

Nice, Thanks!


Quote
The E36150 Series provides clean power with less than 5 mVrms ripple and noise. Precise output control allows voltage set with 0.03% accuracy and current set with 0.1% accuracy. Load and line regulation better than 0.01% ensures a steady output when power line and load changes occur, giving you better peace of mind.

Probably a big toroidal transformer inside.

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Online TheSteve

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 3785
  • Country: ca
  • Living the Dream
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2022, 04:50:55 pm »
I'd like the E36154A please.
VE7FM
 

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7462
  • Country: hr
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2022, 06:04:02 pm »
Why are people thinking this is linear PSU ?

40/80 A

Noise:
Normal mode voltage, Vpp(20 Hz to 20 MHz) < 75 mV
Normal mode voltage, Vrms (20 Hz to 10 MHz) < 5 mV

That is switcher and it should be...
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
The following users thanked this post: nctnico, thm_w

Offline electr_peter

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1443
  • Country: lt
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2022, 09:53:41 pm »
Curved V/I limit curve (with same max power) suggests hybrid topology, i.e. switching pre-regulator plus linear output stage like R&S HMP series and similar PSUs.
 

Offline J-R

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1318
  • Country: us
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2022, 09:56:17 pm »
Temperature sensor in the connector is interesting.

Wonder why it mentions a range from 20Hz to 20MHz, as it seems it should technically be able to do frequencies below 20Hz.  Maybe they are just separating the specifications, or are they different operating modes?

Output is not bipolar?
 

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7462
  • Country: hr
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2022, 10:24:06 pm »
Curved V/I limit curve (with same max power) suggests hybrid topology, i.e. switching pre-regulator plus linear output stage like R&S HMP series and similar PSUs.
No it doesn't. Switchers also do constant power trick. 80 A PSU is not going to be linear, and noise proves it..
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
The following users thanked this post: nctnico

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28429
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2022, 10:56:35 pm »
Curved V/I limit curve (with same max power) suggests hybrid topology, i.e. switching pre-regulator plus linear output stage like R&S HMP series and similar PSUs.
No it doesn't. Switchers also do constant power trick. 80 A PSU is not going to be linear, and noise proves it..
I agree. It is nice to see though that Keysight brings this old concept back to life. In the HP days they used to have a whole bunch of these kind of supplies that have a power limit. It makes a PSU much more versatile. I have a pair of HP6012As which are excellent for when a lot of current or high voltage is needed (and the power limit is kind of a conservative estimate). Still, I would like some more modern metering though.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2022, 11:00:46 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
The following users thanked this post: 2N3055

Offline Someone

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5154
  • Country: au
    • send complaints here
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2022, 01:08:27 am »
Curved V/I limit curve (with same max power) suggests hybrid topology, i.e. switching pre-regulator plus linear output stage like R&S HMP series and similar PSUs.
No it doesn't. Switchers also do constant power trick. 80 A PSU is not going to be linear, and noise proves it..
I agree. It is nice to see though that Keysight brings this old concept back to life. In the HP days they used to have a whole bunch of these kind of supplies that have a power limit. It makes a PSU much more versatile. I have a pair of HP6012As which are excellent for when a lot of current or high voltage is needed (and the power limit is kind of a conservative estimate). Still, I would like some more modern metering though.
This looks like a very close competitor to the Aim TTI QPX750SP, continuing their range of "powerflex" supplies. Pricing will be key as always.
 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7275
  • Country: ca
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2022, 01:26:34 am »
Curved V/I limit curve (with same max power) suggests hybrid topology, i.e. switching pre-regulator plus linear output stage like R&S HMP series and similar PSUs.
No it doesn't. Switchers also do constant power trick. 80 A PSU is not going to be linear, and noise proves it..
Net weighf 6.64kg proves it  ;D
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
The following users thanked this post: 2N3055

Online floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7675
  • Country: ca
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2022, 02:50:41 am »
Can you charge a battery with it? Don't see mention of it in the datasheet or app notes, no precautions etc. unlike the EDU36311A which requires a lame output diode.
Regen, backspin, large capacitive load, battery potential etc.- unexpected voltage at the output terminals does happen.
I expect a power supply to be robust and cope with any load. Not crowbar it and don't take the backfeed and auto-destruct.

I can't get excited about a product, no right to repair- access to a service manual or at least a power-section schematic, that can get damaged with a common use, and asking Keysight Support over their shortcomings I've been through that and don't waste time taking blame for their own engineering omissions.

Can these new power supplies withstand voltage at the output terminals (4-wire sense as well), when powered off, or the output disabled, or above the setpoint? Yes the OVP function is obviously not enabled when working with these type of loads.
 

Offline Someone

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5154
  • Country: au
    • send complaints here
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2022, 03:51:18 am »
Can you charge a battery with it? Don't see mention of it in the datasheet or app notes, no precautions etc. unlike the EDU36311A which requires a lame output diode.
Its not really clear on that in the datasheet, the manual would probably have more on the matter. The Up/Down programming settling times (rather a mouthful) are suspiciously symmetric, but if it was 2 quadrant you'd expect the specifications to include current + and - ranges rather than 0 to +.
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 29808
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2022, 04:13:57 am »
Can you charge a battery with it?
You can charge a battery with any PSU if you take some basic precautions especially to eliminate the chance of any reverse voltage.
I certainly have no concerns punching 30A+ into a 24V series parallel string of 160AH SLA's with my 60A 40V SPS5042X.
Hardly raises the smart fan revs.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Online floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7675
  • Country: ca
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2022, 04:26:11 am »
No, the backfeed can cause the damage and does blow up the crowbar, if enabled or it seems to be stupid and trip as if an UVLO. Or the pass transistor array etc.
While charging, pull the power cord as if a mains failure occured. Or with the power supply off, connect a battery to the output terminals. Many PSU's I've seen killed that way or worse as batteries can punch harder. Here we have a ton of firmware with devs not knowing about this issue.

I noticed press releases pulled a couple weeks ago, not sure what that is about  :-//
I did see: E36155A USD $3,845 60V 40A, E36150ADVU USD $532
 
The following users thanked this post: nctnico, Someone

Offline LaurentR

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 536
  • Country: us
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2022, 04:50:40 am »
The E36300 User Guide has a paragraph (see clipping below) about this (talking about OVP) where they recommend a diode to avoid backfeed and even putting the sense wire on the PSU side of the diode, which may make sense to keep sense and terminal within range but makes the sense input a lot less useful.

OTOH, the TTi QSP series, which is a hybrid very much like the Keysight supply of this thread (including the very similar and much cheaper QPX750SP mentioned above) claims:

"Output will withstand an applied forward voltage of up to 70V. Reverse protection by diode clamp for reverse currents up to 3A"

So it seems that that particular series of supplies can survive a battery backfeed.

I also looked at the Electro Automatik PSI 9000 DT Series (recommended as a high-power supply on this forum). The situation is not entirey clear. They have a section on battery charging. They clarify that they don't have reverse-polarity protection but they don't recommend an external diode for backfeed.
 
The following users thanked this post: Someone


Offline HighVoltage

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5560
  • Country: de
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2022, 08:04:18 am »
Many many years ago, I killed a nice Agilent PSU, charging a battery.
The crowbar hit during a short mains power drop.
I learned all about crowbars then and was able to fix the PSU.

Be careful with any PSU, charging a battery and always apply a protection circuit!
 
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 
The following users thanked this post: nctnico

Online tggzzz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21225
  • Country: gb
  • Numbers, not adjectives
    • Having fun doing more, with less
Re: New Keysight DC Power supply announced!
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2022, 08:11:02 am »
Please stop polluting threads! That song is getting old.

Is this link spamming is happening on other Keysight threads?

Where someone suggests that individuals may be interested in a product but the company does not support individuals, I think a single warning is appropriate. That's similar to warning people not to use float scopes every time someone suggests doing that.

N.B. as someone that was very appreciative of HP support policies, and who worked happily for HP for 13 years and loves HP kit, the Keysight attitude pains me. I think it deserves to be mentioned when appropriate.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
The following users thanked this post: Towger


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf