Author Topic: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017  (Read 161986 times)

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Offline Fungus

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #100 on: January 30, 2017, 07:53:34 pm »
Where it appears they've chosen to use an Ext trig for CS, right ?
If so, it's a feature that can be added in FW for any DSO with a Ext trig in.  :)

If it decodes whatever's in memory then no FW update is needed. Trigger using CS and decode the captured CLOCK and MOSI data.

Most SPI data is bidirectional though. Normally you want to get data back from your slaves. Very few things will be purely master->slave with no reply. SPI with two channels isn't very useful.

 

Offline nfmax

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2017, 08:09:51 pm »
Anyone noticed the DVM option is free on registration of the scope? The FFT has phase as well as magnitude? (and can we have that on the 2000X series as well, please Mr Keysight?) The bode plot function on the wavegen equipped models? And the ADC is 2Gsps on the 100MHz versions, not 1GHz split 4 ways like on the hacked Rigols?

Really, it all depends on the price...
 

Offline memset

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2017, 08:51:43 pm »
Oops.

Ok, an announcement finally came a little earlier :)

Nice, cut down 2000X series. Too bad no MSO capabilities.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #103 on: January 30, 2017, 08:53:32 pm »
If it's $650 as per the Rupee document then I don't think this will in any way dissuade those to buy the 1054Z. Memory depth looks low compared to the Rigol to me...
And that would be $650 for the educational model (limited to 50 MHz without upgrade option, and probably limited to customers in the educational market). I would assume around $1000 for the 70 MHz "regular" model.

You will be pleasantly surprised
 
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Offline memset

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #104 on: January 30, 2017, 09:02:18 pm »
You will be pleasantly surprised
Russian retailer's pricelist hints for possible US retail price of ~$800 for DSOX1102G (and ~$1750 from that retailer in Russia).
 

Online nctnico

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #105 on: January 30, 2017, 09:14:07 pm »
If it's $650 as per the Rupee document then I don't think this will in any way dissuade those to buy the 1054Z. Memory depth looks low compared to the Rigol to me...
And that would be $650 for the educational model (limited to 50 MHz without upgrade option, and probably limited to customers in the educational market). I would assume around $1000 for the 70 MHz "regular" model.
You will be pleasantly surprised
But even then there are better options out there. Buying a crippled Keysight is just paying for the badge but it gets you nowhere:

What was that about 'Scrap the toys?>:D
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online Someone

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #106 on: January 30, 2017, 10:12:26 pm »
I was under the impression that all you have to do is to hit the Stop button on the InfiniiVision.

But the whole memory thing is not so important to me so I'm maybe the wrong person to discuss this.
Rather than stop, which leaves the last acquisition (with its memory halved from the ping-pong buffer) on the screen you press single and then it captures the next trigger with the full memory depth.
 

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #107 on: January 30, 2017, 10:22:02 pm »
I was under the impression that all you have to do is to hit the Stop button on the InfiniiVision.

But the whole memory thing is not so important to me so I'm maybe the wrong person to discuss this.
Rather than stop, which leaves the last acquisition (with its memory halved from the ping-pong buffer) on the screen you press single and then it captures the next trigger with the full memory depth.

Yep, I actually did a quick video about this:

http://bit.ly/2bx0Jrr
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #108 on: January 30, 2017, 10:56:21 pm »
I was under the impression that all you have to do is to hit the Stop button on the InfiniiVision.

But the whole memory thing is not so important to me so I'm maybe the wrong person to discuss this.
Rather than stop, which leaves the last acquisition (with its memory halved from the ping-pong buffer) on the screen you press single and then it captures the next trigger with the full memory depth.
Are you serious? The 'trace of interest' is gone if you do that!  :palm: :palm:
That is the whole problem: You keep switching between single and continuous mode with this half baked memory solution. It is just too tedious and time consuming.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 11:02:36 pm by nctnico »
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2017, 11:00:11 pm »
I was under the impression that all you have to do is to hit the Stop button on the InfiniiVision.

But the whole memory thing is not so important to me so I'm maybe the wrong person to discuss this.
Rather than stop, which leaves the last acquisition (with its memory halved from the ping-pong buffer) on the screen you press single and then it captures the next trigger with the full memory depth.

Yep, I actually did a quick video about this:

http://bit.ly/2bx0Jrr
What would be useful, especially for less frequent trigger events,  is a "repeated single" mode, which would be the equivalent of pressing "single" after each trigger. Maybe press and hold the single button to activate this mode?
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Online scopeman

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #110 on: January 31, 2017, 04:01:28 am »
All that new scope and still multplexed cursor, zoom and vertical controls. Why does every new scope have to be run like a damn video game?
Why not spend a few extra dollars and give me individual controls?
 

Offline Faith

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #111 on: January 31, 2017, 04:15:21 am »
Actually, wasn't Keysight supposed to be painting everything black now?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-keysight-changing-colours-beige-to-black/

Or is that going to be reserved for the MegaZoom V? :horse:
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #112 on: January 31, 2017, 06:31:22 am »
I was under the impression that all you have to do is to hit the Stop button on the InfiniiVision.

But the whole memory thing is not so important to me so I'm maybe the wrong person to discuss this.
Rather than stop, which leaves the last acquisition (with its memory halved from the ping-pong buffer) on the screen you press single and then it captures the next trigger with the full memory depth.
Are you serious? The 'trace of interest' is gone if you do that!  :palm: :palm:
That is the whole problem: You keep switching between single and continuous mode with this half baked memory solution. It is just too tedious and time consuming.

I'd rather have the faster update and processing in the background whilst it's taking another capture. Losing half my memory isn't such a big deal when I know that if I want the full memory I can just hit the single button or deliberately set up a single shot event.
Granted, in modern terms, the 4MS memory in the Megazoom IV is long in the tooth. But I've hardly ever wanted/needed more memory than the Keysight offers anyway, but I appreciate the responsiveness every time I used it.
 

Online TheSteve

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #113 on: January 31, 2017, 06:34:56 am »
Actually, wasn't Keysight supposed to be painting everything black now?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-keysight-changing-colours-beige-to-black/

Or is that going to be reserved for the MegaZoom V? :horse:

The probes are black :)
VE7FM
 

Online Someone

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2017, 07:08:22 am »
Anyone noticed the DVM option is free on registration of the scope? The FFT has phase as well as magnitude? (and can we have that on the 2000X series as well, please Mr Keysight?) The bode plot function on the wavegen equipped models?
Not looking good:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/frequency-response-with-a-tek-md3000/msg1048001/#msg1048001
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #115 on: January 31, 2017, 07:48:16 am »
And the ADC is 2Gsps on the 100MHz versions, not 1GHz split 4 ways like on the hacked Rigols?

2Gsps on both channel, It does not half when the 2nd channel is switched on.
They must be using the full 4Gsps capability of the ASIC. Nice.
 

Offline ProBang2

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #116 on: January 31, 2017, 08:19:21 am »

Is there an estimated schedule, so we can expect a review/teardown video?   :popcorn:
 

Online nctnico

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #117 on: January 31, 2017, 08:46:51 am »
I was under the impression that all you have to do is to hit the Stop button on the InfiniiVision.

But the whole memory thing is not so important to me so I'm maybe the wrong person to discuss this.
Rather than stop, which leaves the last acquisition (with its memory halved from the ping-pong buffer) on the screen you press single and then it captures the next trigger with the full memory depth.
Are you serious? The 'trace of interest' is gone if you do that!  :palm: :palm:
That is the whole problem: You keep switching between single and continuous mode with this half baked memory solution. It is just too tedious and time consuming.
I'd rather have the faster update and processing in the background whilst it's taking another capture. Losing half my memory isn't such a big deal when I know that if I want the full memory I can just hit the single button or deliberately set up a single shot event.
Granted, in modern terms, the 4MS memory in the Megazoom IV is long in the tooth. But I've hardly ever wanted/needed more memory than the Keysight offers anyway, but I appreciate the responsiveness every time I used it.
I own an  Agilent DSO7104A and it is sitting on a shelve. Double buffering isn't a Keysight specific feature because most (all?) DSOs use double buffering  but simply fit doube the memory it says on the badge (which sometimes doubles the number of segments in segmented recording). Granted I don't need deep memory all the time but if you need to jump through hoops and start pushing buttons before capturing each trace in order to use all the memory then something is wrong.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 08:51:01 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #118 on: January 31, 2017, 08:50:56 am »

Is there an estimated schedule, so we can expect a review/teardown video?   :popcorn:
I think the clue is in the title of this thread  :)
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #119 on: January 31, 2017, 09:26:55 am »
I own an  Agilent DSO7104A and it is sitting on a shelve. Double buffering isn't a Keysight specific feature because most (all?) DSOs use double buffering  but simply fit doube the memory it says on the badge. Granted I don't need deep memory all the time but if you need to jump through hoops and start pushing buttons before capturing each trace in order to use all the memory then something is wrong.

Jumping through hoops like pushing the Single button instead of Stop?

If you are using the stop button then you are generally looking at a triggered repetitive signal, so it makes virtually no difference between pushing the Single button instead of the Stop button.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #120 on: January 31, 2017, 09:28:47 am »

Is there an estimated schedule, so we can expect a review/teardown video?   :popcorn:
I think the clue is in the title of this thread  :)

A teaser will come sooner...
 

Offline nfmax

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #121 on: January 31, 2017, 09:35:57 am »
I was under the impression that all you have to do is to hit the Stop button on the InfiniiVision.

But the whole memory thing is not so important to me so I'm maybe the wrong person to discuss this.
Rather than stop, which leaves the last acquisition (with its memory halved from the ping-pong buffer) on the screen you press single and then it captures the next trigger with the full memory depth.
Are you serious? The 'trace of interest' is gone if you do that!  :palm: :palm:
That is the whole problem: You keep switching between single and continuous mode with this half baked memory solution. It is just too tedious and time consuming.
I'd rather have the faster update and processing in the background whilst it's taking another capture. Losing half my memory isn't such a big deal when I know that if I want the full memory I can just hit the single button or deliberately set up a single shot event.
Granted, in modern terms, the 4MS memory in the Megazoom IV is long in the tooth. But I've hardly ever wanted/needed more memory than the Keysight offers anyway, but I appreciate the responsiveness every time I used it.
I own an  Agilent DSO7104A and it is sitting on a shelve. Double buffering isn't a Keysight specific feature because most (all?) DSOs use double buffering  but simply fit doube the memory it says on the badge (which sometimes doubles the number of segments in segmented recording). Granted I don't need deep memory all the time but if you need to jump through hoops and start pushing buttons before capturing each trace in order to use all the memory then something is wrong.
Because your lightning-fast reaction time beats the Keysight's trigger system every time?  :palm:
 

Online nctnico

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2017, 09:58:03 am »
No. For many measurements you'll want to capture just one event. Like a UART message or certain signal. Usually this means pressing buttons on a generator, closing a switch, clicking a button in a GUI, etc. Having to also press a button on the oscilloscope to arm it just wastes time and adds extra room for error (or annoyance when putting the probe onto the test point also produces a trigger and you need to re-arm the scope once more). If you can let the oscilloscope stay in continuous trigger mode instead of single the scope does what it should do without needing manual arming and thus save time and work more comfortably.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 10:01:42 am by nctnico »
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Online Someone

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2017, 10:14:14 am »
Because your lightning-fast reaction time beats the Keysight's trigger system every time?  :palm:
We've been here before. If its something happening frequently the realtime is nice and you press single to get a longer record, if its something rare but you still want the longer record press single. Some people get really worked up over their workflow and specific methods (the auto trigger timeout differences etc). I like using all sorts of scopes and appreciate the idea of providing as much memory as possible given the current configuration rather than synthetically limiting it to the worst case in all cases, it keeps marketing happy with a big headline specification but you're not missing out on anything.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2017, 11:13:45 am »
No. For many measurements you'll want to capture just one event. Like a UART message or certain signal. Usually this means pressing buttons on a generator, closing a switch, clicking a button in a GUI, etc. Having to also press a button on the oscilloscope to arm it just wastes time and adds extra room for error (or annoyance when putting the probe onto the test point also produces a trigger and you need to re-arm the scope once more). If you can let the oscilloscope stay in continuous trigger mode instead of single the scope does what it should do without needing manual arming and thus save time and work more comfortably.

But in that case you STILL have to reach up to the scope and press the STOP button!
What's the difference between pressing the STOP button and the SINGLE button when your signal is re-triggering all the time?
Your argument seems to be almost entirely without merit.
 


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