Author Topic: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017  (Read 161840 times)

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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #775 on: July 16, 2017, 08:30:18 am »
It's a matter of principle. Nothing more.

I am eager to hear feedback from His Majesty Keysight :)
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #776 on: July 16, 2017, 08:32:55 am »
I doubt they care, and I wouldn't have a problem with that.
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Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #777 on: July 17, 2017, 05:39:52 am »
I doubt they care, and I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I am eager to hear feedback from His Majesty Keysight :)

We absolutely do care and have been working pretty hard to get a complete answer for you all. It's unfortunately not as straightforward as just a phone call/e-mail.

 ?
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #778 on: July 17, 2017, 07:44:29 am »
It's a matter of principle. Nothing more.
I am eager to hear feedback from His Majesty Keysight :)

Pascal, please ease off, Keysight have said they are working on it.
 
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Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #779 on: July 18, 2017, 04:27:56 am »
Thanks, Dave.

Here's the response from the support team, who is handling the official communication around this probe concern. This is an official Keysight statement from the support team, not my normal forum stuff.

Quote

Ensure the best performance when using your InfiniiVision 1000 X-Series oscilloscopes/probes

Keysight is committed to supporting our customers and ensuring they make the highest integrity measurements possible.  In a few situations the N2140/42A probe compensation has been found to drift.   Keysight is working on a component modification to improve the performance of the N2140/42A probes and will communicate more as details become available. 

To prevent drift from happening and to ensure the best possible measurement with your N2140/42A probes, Keysight recommends the following procedures for optimal probe compensation:
•   Prior to making a measurement, power on and warm up the oscilloscope (with the N2140/42A  probes connected) for a minimum of 30 minutes.
•   When engaging and turning the N2140/42A  probe’s adjustment screw, don’t excessively push down on the component.
•   If the ambient temperature in the area in which the oscilloscope is being used changes more than 5 degrees C, the probe compensation steps should be repeated. 


So the above tips are good advice in general to get the best possible comp  :-/O.

I'm headed on vacation tomorrow where I won't have internet  :phew:, and won't be back until 25-July. So, I won't be able to respond to comments or questions between now and then.

If this issue is having an effect on your work, please do not hesitate to call your local Keysight support center and let them know. Also feel free to point them to this thread and/or response if they haven't seen it yet. If this is measurably impacting your measurements, please let us know through the normal Keysight support channels as this is potentially more than I can reasonably handle through the forum.

Thanks for your patience & understanding!

-Daniel
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #780 on: July 18, 2017, 06:33:10 am »
There, I fixed your display name.
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #781 on: July 18, 2017, 09:33:12 am »
Thanks Daniel. Appreciated!
 

Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #782 on: July 22, 2017, 09:03:35 am »
Does this scope have an intensity graded display like the 2000X? Does it have a hardware frequency counter (I saw in Dave's review of the 2000X that that model does not)?

EDIT: Also, is there a single unbiased and in depth review of this scope (comparing it to other models in it's class preferably) from anyone? I find it kind of strange that none of the big names who have received this (Dave included, sadly) haven't given it a real critical look in operation and comparison to other scopes @ similar pricepoints, though the teardown was nice. Is there something binding the people who received this scope from doing an in depth look at it in operation or something? I'm currently looking for something to replace my creaky-ass Siglent 1072CML and obviously I would like to have a "good name" (particularly since I'm an HP fanboy) but from where I'm sitting it seems like that's all you get for your money here, I would love to be proven wrong. What are the tangible and objective benefits here? When you buy a Mercedes over a Kia you get build quality and a good name but you also get performance. There's an odd situation here where the Kias (Rigol, Siglent, Instek) seem to have better performance over this Mercedes (again, I am dying to see a review or commentary that proves me wrong because deep down I want this thing).
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 09:20:52 am by dos »
 
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Online tautech

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #783 on: July 22, 2017, 09:49:49 am »
Does this scope have an intensity graded display like the 2000X? Does it have a hardware frequency counter (I saw in Dave's review of the 2000X that that model does not)?

EDIT: Also, is there a single unbiased and in depth review of this scope (comparing it to other models in it's class preferably) from anyone? I find it kind of strange that none of the big names who have received this (Dave included, sadly) haven't given it a real critical look in operation and comparison to other scopes @ similar pricepoints, though the teardown was nice. Is there something binding the people who received this scope from doing an in depth look at it in operation or something? I'm currently looking for something to replace my creaky-ass Siglent 1072CML and obviously I would like to have a "good name" (particularly since I'm an HP fanboy) but from where I'm sitting it seems like that's all you get for your money here, I would love to be proven wrong. What are the tangible and objective benefits here? When you buy a Mercedes over a Kia you get build quality and a good name but you also get performance. There's an odd situation here where the Kias (Rigol, Siglent, Instek) seem to have better performance over this Mercedes (again, I am dying to see a review or commentary that proves me wrong because deep down I want this thing).
Grab the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E and step into another class of DSO from your CML.
There'll be someone on the forum starting out that'll happily grab the CML off you and help subsidise the step up.
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Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #784 on: July 22, 2017, 10:22:23 am »
Grab the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E and step into another class of DSO from your CML.
There'll be someone on the forum starting out that'll happily grab the CML off you and help subsidise the step up.

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards but I would like to wait for a real in depth review of this Keysight before making any decisions. I don't need the 200MHz bandwidth, and the Keysight unit has 2Gsa/s whereas the 1202X-E only has 1 (tho the Keysight has a smaller memory). I also just don't like the way the Siglent looks, it seems chintzier than my 1072 (which honestly has held up fine, it's just ungodly slow) and it's a dumb complaint but the pink second channel looks silly. The knobs also look cheap and it seems like they changed them from the regular 1202X, maybe to cut costs. I will also miss the "bonus" digital channel the Keysight has, which seems like one of the big plusses in it's favor. The UI of the Siglent looks great however and I like that the wide screen is actually taken advantage of with 14 horizontal divisions that are perfectly square, a proper hardware frequency counter that's always on in the upper right, and a generally uncluttered display. Why are these things so hard for some other manufacturers to do?

If the Siglent had a 4 channel model of the 1000X series (with independent controls) for a few hundred dollars more it would be a no brainer though. There's the Rigol 1054Z and Instek 1000B but the former seems sluggish and has a cluttered UI/annoying single vertical control and the latter looks like it was designed by a crack head for twenty dollars
 

Online tautech

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #785 on: July 22, 2017, 10:37:38 am »
Grab the 200 MHz SDS1202X-E and step into another class of DSO from your CML.
There'll be someone on the forum starting out that'll happily grab the CML off you and help subsidise the step up.

Yeah, that's what I'm leaning towards but I would like to wait for a real in depth review of this Keysight before making any decisions. I don't need the 200MHz bandwidth, and the Keysight unit has 2Gsa/s whereas the 1202X-E only has 1 (tho the Keysight has a smaller memory). I also just don't like the way the Siglent looks, it seems chintzier than my 1072 (which honestly has held up fine, it's just ungodly slow) and it's a dumb complaint but the pink second channel looks silly. The knobs also look cheap and it seems like they changed them from the regular 1202X, maybe to cut costs. I will also miss the "bonus" digital channel the Keysight has, which seems like one of the big plusses in it's favor. The UI of the Siglent looks great however and I like that the wide screen is actually taken advantage of with 14 horizontal divisions that are perfectly square, a proper hardware frequency counter that's always on in the upper right, and a generally uncluttered display. Why are these things so hard for some other manufacturers to do?

If the Siglent had a 4 channel model of the 1000X series (with independent controls) for a few hundred dollars more it would be a no brainer though. There's the Rigol 1054Z and Instek 1000B but the former seems sluggish and has a cluttered UI/annoying single vertical control and the latter looks like it was designed by a crack head for twenty dollars
OK, you appear to have a reasonable handle on things but you need find an X-E and have a test drive.
IMO the 1kX is nicer than the X-E but my opinion is predominantly based on the larger display but the X-E has some nice features.
Each manufacturer sticks to their own trace colour scheme and what you mightn't be aware of is in the CML+ released a few months back Siglent dropped the ch2 blue like yours to standardise all their later releases as ch2 pink.
The perfect scope is yet to be made.  :(
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Online exe

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #786 on: July 22, 2017, 11:06:45 am »
If the Siglent had a 4 channel model of the 1000X series (with independent controls) for a few hundred dollars more it would be a no brainer though. There's the Rigol 1054Z and Instek 1000B but the former seems sluggish and has a cluttered UI/annoying single vertical control and the latter looks like it was designed by a crack head for twenty dollars

There is also Micsig TO1074 (I own to1104) :). Anyway, I recommend try all scopes you interested in and pick the one that suits you best. Also be sure to use latest firmware available.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #787 on: July 22, 2017, 11:07:24 am »
Do you get wafers with it?

(see Monty Python Albatross sketch)
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Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #788 on: July 22, 2017, 11:15:20 am »
There is also Micsig TO1074 (I own to1104) :). Anyway, I recommend try all scopes you interested in and pick the one that suits you best. Also be sure to use latest firmware available.

Personally I would never use a scope like that, I like real knobs and buttons. I wish I lived somewhere close to a Keysight or Siglent dealer with some kind of showroom but Florida is a wasteland for that kind of thing. I've gotten good at watching in depth reviews and figuring out if the item suits my needs though, which is why I'm dying to see someone (like Dave for instance) really put the Keysight through it's paces.
 

Online exe

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #789 on: July 22, 2017, 11:17:23 am »
Personally I would never use a scope like that, I like real knobs and buttons.

I thought so too up until recently. Anyway, I don't insist, it's a matter of taste.
 

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #790 on: July 22, 2017, 11:20:39 am »
Do you get wafers with it?

"'Cause you don't get bloody wafers with it!" Not only just that, mine seems not equipped with stereo speakers, that's a bummer :(
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #791 on: July 22, 2017, 04:20:56 pm »
There is also Micsig TO1074 (I own to1104) :). Anyway, I recommend try all scopes you interested in and pick the one that suits you best. Also be sure to use latest firmware available.
Personally I would never use a scope like that, I like real knobs and buttons.
You'll change your mind within 5 minutes when using a scope with a good touch screen UI (*). Human brains are much better wired for using a touch screen than knobs.

(*) I had a short play with a recent Keysight S-series scope a couple of weeks ago but the touch screen interface didn't impress me much becuase it was more like a replacement for using a mouse.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 04:23:49 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline GlowingGhoul

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #792 on: July 22, 2017, 07:49:11 pm »
There is also Micsig TO1074 (I own to1104) :). Anyway, I recommend try all scopes you interested in and pick the one that suits you best. Also be sure to use latest firmware available.
Personally I would never use a scope like that, I like real knobs and buttons.
You'll change your mind within 5 minutes when using a scope with a good touch screen UI (*). Human brains are much better wired for using a touch screen than knobs.

(*) I had a short play with a recent Keysight S-series scope a couple of weeks ago but the touch screen interface didn't impress me much becuase it was more like a replacement for using a mouse.

Audio/video and automotive control manufacturers used to think that touch interfaces were better as well. Now it's universally understood by ergonomic designers that frequently used linear controls are far superior in the form of physical interfaces. Think volume controls, temperature controls, etc, now often residing side by side with touchscreen interfaces.

Touch only in most instances is simply cheaper to deploy, but not superior to a proper combination of the two.
 

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #793 on: July 22, 2017, 09:05:42 pm »
There is also Micsig TO1074 (I own to1104) :). Anyway, I recommend try all scopes you interested in and pick the one that suits you best. Also be sure to use latest firmware available.

Personally I would never use a scope like that, I like real knobs and buttons. I wish I lived somewhere close to a Keysight or Siglent dealer with some kind of showroom but Florida is a wasteland for that kind of thing.
The US Siglent site lists these guys as Florida reps:
http://www.dbm-marketing.net/contact.html
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Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #794 on: July 23, 2017, 01:50:38 am »
There is also Micsig TO1074 (I own to1104) :). Anyway, I recommend try all scopes you interested in and pick the one that suits you best. Also be sure to use latest firmware available.

Personally I would never use a scope like that, I like real knobs and buttons. I wish I lived somewhere close to a Keysight or Siglent dealer with some kind of showroom but Florida is a wasteland for that kind of thing.
The US Siglent site lists these guys as Florida reps:
http://www.dbm-marketing.net/contact.html

Are these the sort of people to be bothered to set up a demo for one guy looking for a $4-600 scope for his own workshop? I don't really see mention of a storefront or anything that suggests they want to interact with the general public/people not placing big orders. Also, I have a pretty good idea of how the 1202X(E) operates and what it's strengths and weaknesses are, there are several in depth reviews etc. I'm really looking for a good hard critical look at the Keysight which despite the scope being given away left and right doesn't really seem to exist (kind of strange, yeah?)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 01:54:22 am by dos »
 

Online exe

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #795 on: July 23, 2017, 07:56:43 am »
Are these the sort of people to be bothered to set up a demo for one guy looking for a $4-600 scope for his own workshop?

Why not? It never hurts to ask :). You can also try find a local workshop or something or even ask here at eevblog if someone can arrange a small demo. Also people often willing to help individual hobbyist, even those who deal only with corporate clients.

I have a pretty good idea of how the 1202X(E) operates and what it's strengths and weaknesses are, there are several in depth reviews etc.

Imho, only If you need very basic functions (but then you can take any scope). And here is why.

I'm yet to see a really comprehensive review on all functions. So, no matter how many reviews I watched on 1202X-E, TO1104, 1052E (plus a few hours of playing with R&S, Keysight and GWS scopes) I still discovered a lot of things relevant to me and not covered in any review. Like, "advanced" triggering (e.g., on noisy signal), clock skew/lag between channels, dc accuracy, remote control, remote access to saved files, advanced measurements (gain and phase, etc), math (beyond simple +/- operations), etc. Even standard functions can be implemented slightly differently, different enough to add a lot of hustle in some particular scenarios relevant to my typical usage. Plus, as new FW versions released, reviews outdate.

So, I only trust my hands-on experience. Preferably, with somebody more experienced around to explain me "weird" behavior or help to set it up. It's very easy to make things wrong with a DSO when going beyond simple stuff.

PS I suggest a four channel model (even if it comes at cost) for two reasons: 1) differential measurements (remember all channels connected to the ground, you cannot just connect probes in arbitrary way) 2) I often have multiple DUTs it's convenient to dedicate, say, channel 4 for quick-n-dirty measurements without disconnecting probes from the main device.
 
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Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #796 on: July 23, 2017, 10:44:47 am »
PS I suggest a four channel model (even if it comes at cost) for two reasons: 1) differential measurements (remember all channels connected to the ground, you cannot just connect probes in arbitrary way) 2) I often have multiple DUTs it's convenient to dedicate, say, channel 4 for quick-n-dirty measurements without disconnecting probes from the main device.

Really the two analog plus one digital channel of the Keysight is fine for my uses, of course ideally I would like a 4 channel model, and I'm looking really hard at the Siglent 2102X which Saelig has on sale for just under $800. I'm just not sure I want to spend that much on a Siglent (no offense Siglent employees, insert any Chinese brand there and I feel the same)
 

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #797 on: July 23, 2017, 09:09:06 pm »
PS I suggest a four channel model (even if it comes at cost) for two reasons: 1) differential measurements (remember all channels connected to the ground, you cannot just connect probes in arbitrary way) 2) I often have multiple DUTs it's convenient to dedicate, say, channel 4 for quick-n-dirty measurements without disconnecting probes from the main device.

Really the two analog plus one digital channel of the Keysight is fine for my uses, of course ideally I would like a 4 channel model, and I'm looking really hard at the Siglent 2102X which Saelig has on sale for just under $800. I'm just not sure I want to spend that much on a Siglent (no offense Siglent employees, insert any Chinese brand there and I feel the same)
They're a big step from CML and ~twice the physical size. To get one fully spec'ed (DC, FG, LA) will cost a lot more but you'd probably never want anything better. Yep, I have a 2304X as my personal unit.
PM me you you want to know more.
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Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #798 on: July 24, 2017, 06:47:11 am »
PS I suggest a four channel model (even if it comes at cost) for two reasons: 1) differential measurements (remember all channels connected to the ground, you cannot just connect probes in arbitrary way) 2) I often have multiple DUTs it's convenient to dedicate, say, channel 4 for quick-n-dirty measurements without disconnecting probes from the main device.

Really the two analog plus one digital channel of the Keysight is fine for my uses, of course ideally I would like a 4 channel model, and I'm looking really hard at the Siglent 2102X which Saelig has on sale for just under $800. I'm just not sure I want to spend that much on a Siglent (no offense Siglent employees, insert any Chinese brand there and I feel the same)
They're a big step from CML and ~twice the physical size. To get one fully spec'ed (DC, FG, LA) will cost a lot more but you'd probably never want anything better. Yep, I have a 2304X as my personal unit.
PM me you you want to know more.

I just went back and looked and the model I was talking about that was $800 was a 2 channel, for some reason I had a brain fart yesterday. All the 4 channel models of that series are definitely out of my price range and if I was going to get a 2 channel Siglent I would spend half of $800 and get the 1202X-E. I am not sure why Siglent has a big gap of nothing where a cheap 4 channel model should be to compete with Rigol and Instek.
 

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #799 on: July 24, 2017, 07:29:22 am »
PS I suggest a four channel model (even if it comes at cost) for two reasons: 1) differential measurements (remember all channels connected to the ground, you cannot just connect probes in arbitrary way) 2) I often have multiple DUTs it's convenient to dedicate, say, channel 4 for quick-n-dirty measurements without disconnecting probes from the main device.

Really the two analog plus one digital channel of the Keysight is fine for my uses, of course ideally I would like a 4 channel model, and I'm looking really hard at the Siglent 2102X which Saelig has on sale for just under $800. I'm just not sure I want to spend that much on a Siglent (no offense Siglent employees, insert any Chinese brand there and I feel the same)
They're a big step from CML and ~twice the physical size. To get one fully spec'ed (DC, FG, LA) will cost a lot more but you'd probably never want anything better. Yep, I have a 2304X as my personal unit.
PM me you you want to know more.

I just went back and looked and the model I was talking about that was $800 was a 2 channel, for some reason I had a brain fart yesterday. All the 4 channel models of that series are definitely out of my price range and if I was going to get a 2 channel Siglent I would spend half of $800 and get the 1202X-E. I am not sure why Siglent has a big gap of nothing where a cheap 4 channel model should be to compete with Rigol and Instek.
Why would they want to if they can do better............but you'll have to wait a little bit.  ;)
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