Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 401753 times)

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Online nfmax

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Just for compare, (previous detail image from R&S  @agdr
Same settings (afaik)
Around same ballpark (note BW diffeerence R&S 300MHz  / Sig measured BW around 200MHz, nameplate  BW 100MHz)
Noise comparisons have to use the same analog bandwidth, same memory depth, same sample rate, and same update rate, otherwise they are not apples-apples.
It is not just about comparisons at the higher sensitivity settings (which are not often used anyway) but even at lower sensitivity setting a scope may make a signal look way too woollie to be usefull. A high update rate is less desireable for a close look at a signal because each sweep adds more noise.
Yes indeed. That's why there is a user control called 'trigger holdoff' to reduce the maximum update rate. But it's nice to have the fast update available when it's needed.
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: Noise, with a BNC shorting cap on channel 1
« Reply #1001 on: April 05, 2017, 12:08:01 am »
Now it looks better, nearly like Sigl.  (meaningful is full BW 1mV/div raw realtime mode without any "cleaning" functions on.)

Which Siglent model(s) are you comparing to?
Would you have any data? (Maybe they are already posted on a Siglent thread somewhere, but I can't recall.)
Thanks!
Bog standard SDS1kX.
When I saw Mikes vid I thought R&S might have done better than Siglent's best selling model but no.
I'd put some shots up but I'm out of stock, anyway there's plenty of examples in the SDS1000X thread.

I am a little bit unhappy with foggy sales comments like this. Do you really think this is good for your business? Or does Siglent think so?

Indeed. Implying that a noise comparison between nominal 100MHz and 300MHz bandwidth scopes (without any common BW limiting, etc) has any meaning is very car-salesman-ish.  I don't think it achieves the desired effect on a technical forum. Quite the opposite.

Also, rf-loop really needs a Siglent distributor disclaimer in his sig. Just saying...
 
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Online ebastler

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Re: Noise, with a BNC shorting cap on channel 1
« Reply #1002 on: April 05, 2017, 12:12:07 am »
Also, rf-loop really needs a Siglent distributor disclaimer in his sig. Just saying...

Agree. He had that for a long time, and decided to remove it a few months (?) ago. I asked him to re-instate it, but without response.
 
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Offline genghisnico13

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I placed the order on TEquipment on march 22nd, confirmed on the 24th and yesterday it was canceled because "Rohde & Schwarz feels it will be exported" (which was the plan BTW) and now they are sold out :-[ I think my only chances of ever getting one are with the upcoming giveaway. :'(
 

Offline ElectronMan

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I placed an order with Newark on 3/30 and got confirmation and a ship date of 4/3 (and my card was charged). Now I see the charge has disappeared from my card and no sign of shipping info (and the order won't pull up by order #).

The page I ordered from now has the unit listed in stock but for about $8k. It is looking more and more like they are canceling orders and gaming the system... R&S's reputation is may well be damaged by their distributors.
 

Offline TK

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I placed an order with Newark on 3/30 and got confirmation and a ship date of 4/3 (and my card was charged). Now I see the charge has disappeared from my card and no sign of shipping info (and the order won't pull up by order #).

The page I ordered from now has the unit listed in stock but for about $8k. It is looking more and more like they are canceling orders and gaming the system... R&S's reputation is may well be damaged by their distributors.
Maybe they tried to contact you to get additional information about the credit card and they did not get a reply on time.  Newark system is a mess, their online and offline ordering systems are disconnected with manual re-entry of orders, multiple databases with different pricing and availability.  The order number is 8 digits.  Any other number is preliminary (they call it PO number) and pretty much useless.  Until you receive the order confirmation email and get assigned an ORDER number, your purchase is not confirmed.
And my online credit card activity shows like 8 authorizations from Newark from 3/30 to 4/4 for amounts varying from $2K to $8K.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 01:33:33 am by TK »
 

Offline ElectronMan

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Just got off the phone with them. They never attempted contact, just canceled the order. They said they needed the CVV code from my card (which is odd because they actually were able to place the temporary charge on it). They then told me my address was wrong. I read it out of the e-mail and it is exactly the address that has always been used with that card. Funny enough, I am getting their newsletter e-mails now, but no one bothered to send an e-mail about canceling my order.

If it was an isolated incident, fine. but combined with everything else I am reading it is a suspicious amount of incompetence.

I did have an order confirmation, an 8 digit "PO" number, a 6 digit "Order number" and a ship date.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 01:38:36 am by ElectronMan »
 

Offline tequipment

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Thanks for all the business.

To anyone international who ordered from us that we canceled.  We appreciate the business but cannot export RS.
The promotion caused a lot of concern over export.  We currently are sold out of the 60 units have have coming in.

Again thanks,
Evan Cirelli

Vice President and co-founder
TEquipment.NET
 

Offline edavid

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Thanks for all the business.

To anyone international who ordered from us that we canceled.  We appreciate the business but cannot export RS.
The promotion caused a lot of concern over export.  We currently are sold out of the 60 units have have coming in.

Have you shipped any units yet?   Does R&S like Newark better than you? :)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 05:49:30 am by edavid »
 

Offline NA5WH

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Thanks for all the business.

To anyone international who ordered from us that we canceled.  We appreciate the business but cannot export RS.
The promotion caused a lot of concern over export.  We currently are sold out of the 60 units have have coming in.

Have you shipped any units yet?   Does R&S like Newark better than you :)

at least i got an estimated ship date today from them... but yeah... basically arriving in may.  So if they had any, it was a couple.
But yeah, can imagine the EU dealers were pointing fingers at RS to ensure they enforced the distribution contracts, since they didnt want to offer the deal.  not sure how i feel about the whole thing. 
 

Offline admiralmaggie

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Continental Resources (http://www.conres.com/test-equipment) still has some in stock. They don't take online orders so you have to request a "Quote". I placed an order last week and it was shipped same day...

 
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Offline JoHr

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Yes indeed. That's why there is a user control called 'trigger holdoff' to reduce the maximum update rate. But it's nice to have the fast update available when it's needed.

Hold off is not the only thing that reduces the update rate. Acquisition length and trigger offset will do this as well. I know many cases where people developed
their 50/60Hz mains, watch their periods and complaind about the update rate ...  :clap:
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 03:18:40 am by JoHr »
The law of conservation of bugs states that the total amount of  bugs of an isolated system remains constant. Bugs can neither be created nor destroyed; rather, they can be transformed from one form to another.
 

Offline piranha32

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We currently are sold out of the 60 units have have coming in.
thanks for info. Do you know approx date when the scopes will arrive and when you will be able to start shipping them?

Online thanasisk

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So annoying European distributors do not care at all offering something closer to the US offer, i suppose most of the people in europe would be happy with just the 2channel model with a couple of options with a brave discount.

 And 700 euros plus vat just for enabling the generator?  This is absurd
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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So annoying European distributors do not care at all offering something closer to the US offer, i suppose most of the people in europe would be happy with just the 2channel model with a couple of options with a brave discount.

 And 700 euros plus vat just for enabling the generator?  This is absurd
I think the mistake they've made is pricing the options relative to a 300MHz scope, not the 70MHz base model.
Hopefully they'll see the error of this and make the pricing more realistic.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
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Offline admiralmaggie

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Mike, I want to thank you for mentioning the promotion on your video! I would not have known about it any other way... Serial decoding on RTB2004 in particular is a great lifesaver! Really happy with it overall...
 

Online Pinkus

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I am wondering if anybody here really received his scope from Newark or at least got a tracking #?
It looks like they are taking orders, charging the credit card and then (sometimes silently) just canceling the order either without any reason or under a pretext ...  what a shabby behavior  of Newark :--
 
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Offline agdr

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I am wondering if anybody here really received his scope from Newark or at least got a tracking #?

Mine came from Newark.  But I started out with a phone call to their sales dept. given how messed up the ordering situation was. I didn't even try to use the website until after she called back once Corporate OK'ed the promo price (that took about 2 hours wait) and sent a confirmed quote in the email ("locked" price at that point, she called it ), where I was then supposed to click on a link to follow it through.  I've done a fair amount of regular business with them for a few years so already had a bit of a customer history.  Not an account though, mine did go through a credit card and I didn't get contacted about it.  But I've used that same card number for at least a year there, again a bit of history with them I guess.

That is really unfortunately people have wound up with cancelled orders just due to cc verification issues!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 06:56:07 am by agdr »
 

Offline admiralmaggie

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I am wondering if anybody here really received his scope from Newark or at least got a tracking #?
It looks like they are taking orders, charging the credit card and then (sometimes silently) just canceling the order either without any reason or under a pretext ...  what a shabby behavior  of Newark :--

I had an order with Newark but I canceled it since the expected ship date was moving and bought mine from Continental Resources. I received it unit two days after...
 

Offline corax

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I am wondering if anybody here really received his scope from Newark or at least got a tracking #?
It looks like they are taking orders, charging the credit card and then (sometimes silently) just canceling the order either without any reason or under a pretext ...  what a shabby behavior  of Newark :--

Mine came from Newark.  Ordered last week twice- first order came through at the $8000 price and was cancelled; things were corrected with a new order after a call to customer service.  Had to make another call
to verify my credit card.  Scope arrived yesterday.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 03:04:50 pm by corax »
 

Offline Joel_l

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Ordered mine Friday, finally got shipped and have tracking number today.

Joel[

quote author=Pinkus link=topic=84856.msg1178695#msg1178695 date=1491337796]
I am wondering if anybody here really received his scope from Newark or at least got a tracking #?
It looks like they are taking orders, charging the credit card and then (sometimes silently) just canceling the order either without any reason or under a pretext ...  what a shabby behavior  of Newark :--
[/quote]
 

Offline NA5WH

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Ordered mine Friday, finally got shipped and have tracking number today.

Guess R&S must have sent a baseline number to each distributor, although late (just like those to the reviewers).  Sadly looks like TEq and TestEq got swamped.. since I ordered as soon as I heard the deal, and here 2-3 weeks later got a ship date of another 3 weeks.   *shrugs* 
 

Offline ws2812b

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Looks like there is a new video (or at least YouTube just recommended it to me). Unfortunately in Portuguese again:
https://youtu.be/ZNDdfAcP2xc
 

Offline ci11

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Re: It works! 174uV(rms) triggering on high definition or averaging acquire
« Reply #1023 on: April 05, 2017, 03:47:59 pm »
So here is ci11's test and... it works!  :D  Pretty darn amazing.

The first photo below shows the signal level. 492Vp-p = 246uV(peak) = 174uV(rms).  This is coming from a Krohn-Hite KH4400B audio oscillator (95% similar to their current KH4402B), which specs at 0.0005% THD at 20Hz.  The scope BW limit is set to 20MHz, although it really didn't make that much difference.  Keep in mind that the oscillator's attenuation network is a series of resistors.  Even though the THD is very low the oscillator is adding a pile of Johnson/thermal noise to the signal.  So that is not all scope noise floor visible in the signal, there is some incoming noise at this tiny level.   Just one 49K series resistor at 25C with the 100KHz bandwidth of the generator would add 9uV of noise.

The second photo shows the capture and trigger with the scope on high definition mode.

I've posted a bunch of additional photos (high res photos, I can only get two attached per post) on Google Drive here including unboxing, test setup, and averaging acquire mode.  Averaging acquire mode was almost as good as high res, I'll post that next (2 photo limit).

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B67cJELZW-i8X294RF9XWFVkSDQ?usp=sharing

Thanks, AGDR! Looks great - I am eagerly waiting to try the test myself very soon!

FYI - 1audio has posted his mod findings and parts list on the KH 4400A on the DIYAudio forum and I'm ordering parts now.
 

Offline agdr

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Re: It works! 174uV(rms) triggering on high definition or averaging acquire
« Reply #1024 on: April 05, 2017, 04:29:20 pm »

Thanks, AGDR! Looks great - I am eagerly waiting to try the test myself very soon!

FYI - 1audio has posted his mod findings and parts list on the KH 4400A on the DIYAudio forum and I'm ordering parts now.

It does seem to be a nice little scope!:)   I'll be eager to hear how your testing goes.

Yeah 1audio was able to get the THD way down there with a bunch of part swaps!  My "B" turned out to be a different animal, but one or two of the mods might apply.  As far as I can tell the inverting out and quadrature out are exactly the same circuit.  Same ancient op-amps.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 04:31:27 pm by agdr »
 


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