new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[EEVblog]

MSO GBP609
I2C+SPI £418
UART £418

Why do DSO manufacturers miss the fact that there are USB based LAs with much more supported protocols plus a few advantages over a DSO for less money? I fully agree with you that decoding for the most common protocols should be a built-in standard feature.

It's just marketing. As soon as one big player starts giving them away for free then they all will.

Until then?  People are paying money so...

I got a new scope in my lab today that comes with free serial decode, and it's under $400.
It's started...

[mikeselectricstuff]

Daniel likes to show off the added functionality of touch in his demonstrations and it's certainly better than voice control.

Voice control? 

That would be in the special EE version of hell. 

I think some of the high-end KS scopes have voice control. I can see how it would be useful in some niche situations, where all your hands are tied up holding sketchy probing arrangements.

[Fungus]

edit: OMG: they use ribbon cable for the MSO probes which cost over 300 euro each:

 

If I remember correctly, the small box has the comparators in it, converting the sensed input signals into differential signals.
Ribbon cable has close to 100ohms impedance between neighbouring wires, so it is useable for differential signals like LVDS up to many 100MBits/s.

That is true but ribbon cable is the worse choice by far because the insulation is weak (melts quickly) and the wire strands are brittle.

And the particular connector shown in that photo will break after you pull it out half a dozen times.

(maybe you're only supposed to connect it once and leave it there)

It wouldn't be so bad if the cable was detachable from the magic box so you could replace it but they never are.

[Fungus]

It's just marketing. As soon as one big player starts giving them away for free then they all will.

Until then?  People are paying money so...

I got a new scope in my lab today that comes with free serial decode, and it's under $400.
It's started...

Sure, but it won't be a "professional" 'scope so it won't change anything.

The DS1054Z has had free serial decode for a while, too (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...)

[Fungus]

I was going to write Owon or Hantek but Rigol also makes sense.

Rigol already has a $400 'scope that sells like hot cakes. I wouldn't expect them to launch a new model in the current climate unless it's a lot less than $400.

It would have to be $300 for a (hackable) 2-channel 'scope or something like that. People would simply keep on buying the DS1054Z otherwise.

They can probably do that: They still sell the DS1052E for not much more than that and a newer design would be cheaper to manufacture.

[tautech]

It's just marketing. As soon as one big player starts giving them away for free then they all will.

Until then?  People are paying money so...

I got a new scope in my lab today that comes with free serial decode, and it's under $400.
It's started...

Sure, but it won't be a "professional" 'scope so it won't change anything.

The DS1054Z has had free serial decode for a while, too (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...)

Unless it's got a really good FFT and a few other tricks. nudge, wink, wink.

[JPortici]

infos when? this week? next week?
I thought i would already see something (electronica 2017 started yesterday) but nothing on their website either

[MrW0lf]

few other tricks

Let me guess... floating inputs maybe (as extra)?

[Faith]

My reaction on seeing:

Highlights:
1.25Gs/s with 4 channels on
10" 1280x800 touch screen
70, 100, 200 and 300 MHz (but no 50 Ohm input mode so 300MHz is quite useless)
10 bit ADC
10Mpts per channel (but it seems to be shared with the digital channels so caveat emptor)
Peak detect acquisition mode included
Protocol decoding and digital inputs optional

=

Manual up already! I see 8 upgrade options..
1. Mixed signal option, additional 16 logic channels
2. Waveform generator and 4-bit pattern generator
3. Bandwith upgrades, 100 MHz, 200 MHz, 300 MHz
4. I2C triggering and decoding
5. UART/RS-232/RS-422/RS-485 triggering and decoding
6. CAN triggering and decoding
7. LIN triggering and decoding
8. History and segmented memory

=

Really though. This does look like a wonderful little pocket rocket of a scope and I really love that screen! But the last time I even attempted to look at a Rohde & Schwarz oscilloscope I simply couldn't get past how expensive the options were (especially once you look at the RTM line).

I always prefer to assume worst case scenario pricing since you don't always know what lies ahead in the future.

Keysight options aren't exactly cheap, but Rohde & Schwarz is in a completely different league. At least Keysight has the all-in-one application bundle which isn't actually too badly priced. Would really have to take a look at the full pricelist for the new RTB before I can decide how worthwhile it is to consider.

[rachaelp]

Daniel likes to show off the added functionality of touch in his demonstrations and it's certainly better than voice control.

Voice control? 

That would be in the special EE version of hell. 

I think some of the high-end KS scopes have voice control. I can see how it would be useful in some niche situations, where all your hands are tied up holding sketchy probing arrangements.

Voice control in an engineering lab environment.... Just imagine all the colourful language the scope would have to be trained to "understand".... 

[mikeselectricstuff]

At least Keysight has the all-in-one application bundle which isn't actually too badly priced. Would really have to take a look at the full pricelist for the new RTB before I can decide how worthwhile it is to consider.

R&S also do an app bundle - I linked to it earlier in this thread. OK value if you need most of it, but individual decodes, especially as UART & I2C+SPI are seperate options and crazy expensive.

[Faith]

Voice control in an engineering lab environment.... Just imagine all the colourful language the scope would have to be trained to "understand".... 

As long as it doesn't respond, we'll be good :p

Silence is often the best cure in high stress environments. If the scope even thinks about responding with "don't shoot the messenger! I'm not to blame for displaying this crappy excuse of a signal!" then it goes straight out of the window >,<"...

[Faith]

R&S also do an app bundle - I linked to it earlier in this thread. OK value if you need most of it, but individual decodes, especially as UART & I2C+SPI are seperate options and crazy expensive.

That's nice. How are R&S probe prices though?

I guess for the new RTB this shouldn't be too much of an issue since it doesn't have any active smart probe interface so anything goes; but when I did look at some of their active probes their prices were, ahem... and never mind active probes, the logic analyser probes too were insanely expensive.

And since R&S are relatively young in the market you don't have the same flood of parts on eBay which can occasionally be acquired for pretty decent prices.

[nugglix]

And since R&S are relatively young in the market you don't have the same flood of parts on eBay which can occasionally be acquired for pretty decent prices.

How many decades are not young in the market for you?

And as already stated above, it seems to be of Hameg descent.
And Hameg is not so young I think.

The probes cost a fortune or two... but I think they're quite nice.

[ebastler]

How many decades are not young in the market for you?

And as already stated above, it seems to be of Hameg descent.
And Hameg is not so young I think.

Hameg has been around since 1957, and Rohde & Schwarz since 1933.
Hameg was pretty late in making the transition to purely digital scopes though -- 2008 according to Wikipedia.

[Howardlong]

Auto/norm button, LIKE! Not sure why more scopes don't have this as a simple toggle button, it is such a frequently used mode change.

The Keysight scopes have a "quick action" button that can be configured as auto/norm, which is how I have it.

Now why didn't I think of that?

[Howardlong]

edit: OMG: they use ribbon cable for the MSO probes which cost over 300 euro each:

 

If I remember correctly, the small box has the comparators in it, converting the sensed input signals into differential signals.
Ribbon cable has close to 100ohms impedance between neighbouring wires, so it is useable for differential signals like LVDS up to many 100MBits/s.

That is true but ribbon cable is the worse choice by far because the insulation is weak (melts quickly) and the wire strands are brittle.

And the particular connector shown in that photo will break after you pull it out half a dozen times.

(maybe you're only supposed to connect it once and leave it there)

It wouldn't be so bad if the cable was detachable from the magic box so you could replace it but they never are.

FWIW the Rigol MSO1074Z-S LA ribbon cable detaches at both ends.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Auto/norm button, LIKE! Not sure why more scopes don't have this as a simple toggle button, it is such a frequently used mode change.

The Keysight scopes have a "quick action" button that can be configured as auto/norm, which is how I have it.

Now why didn't I think of that?

You never saw that button and wondered what it did...?

[Asymmetric13]

I wonder if it would be possible (time available), presuming there is sufficient communal interest, for @EEVBlog / @mikeselectricstuff to conduct a full comparison between this new scope, the (seemingly) equivalently positioned Siglent that @tautech refers to and also the (presumably) similar GW Instek that @nctnico mentioned (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/gw-instek-announces-new-mso-2000/. Alternatively/additionally perhaps there is enough knowledge of each product amongst contributors here to carry out such a comparison on a consolidated basis.

[salviador]

I can't wait that Dave review mso !!

[Howardlong]

Auto/norm button, LIKE! Not sure why more scopes don't have this as a simple toggle button, it is such a frequently used mode change.

The Keysight scopes have a "quick action" button that can be configured as auto/norm, which is how I have it.

Now why didn't I think of that?

You never saw that button and wondered what it did...?

Its function in earlier scopes was limited to things like saving and printing. The Quick Trigger is a relatively new option for that key.

[Skagit]

Fyi, there's a promo at Testequity for a fully unlocked 4ch version for the price of the base 4ch model. While supplies last it looks.

Pretty decent savings.

https://www.testequity.com/products/33440/?pitem=45772

[kwass]

Fyi, there's a promo at Testequity for a fully unlocked 4ch version for the price of the base 4ch model. While supplies last it looks.

Pretty decent savings.

https://www.testequity.com/products/33440/?pitem=45772

A bit less expensive at Tequipment with member discount: http://www.tequipment.net/search/?F_Keyword=rtb2k-com4&guid=91eba3a788cd4993988097219695d556&s=1&F_Suggestions=rtb2k-com4&F_OriginalKeyword=RTB2K-COM4.99

Looks great and a good price for all that, but I'd like to see a review (Dave's or otherwise) before further consideration.

[nctnico]

Fyi, there's a promo at Testequity for a fully unlocked 4ch version for the price of the base 4ch model. While supplies last it looks.

Pretty decent savings.

https://www.testequity.com/products/33440/?pitem=45772

So basically the 300MHz model with all the options for slightly over US $2000.

[EEVblog]

It's just marketing. As soon as one big player starts giving them away for free then they all will.

Until then?  People are paying money so...

I got a new scope in my lab today that comes with free serial decode, and it's under $400.
It's started...

Sure, but it won't be a "professional" 'scope so it won't change anything.
The DS1054Z has had free serial decode for a while, too (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...)

Hacking the scope does not count.
By having Siglent say this low end scope now includes free serial decode out of the box, that still says a lot IMO.