Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 424704 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16012
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2400 on: February 27, 2019, 08:32:28 am »
Hey all

I'm considering an RTB2004 and found that R&S have a bargain store where they sell (as far as I can tell) refurbished equipment. Does anyone have any experience with this store and can you tell me if the units come as new (with all accessories) with a warranty? Also I presume global shipping is offered?

On another note I have been looking at potentially purchasing it instead from element14/newark and I see they have the base model listed for $2080 USD on their US website while it is about $3800 NZD on their NZ website (excluding GST). 

https://www.newark.com/rohde-schwarz/rtb2004/digital-storage-osc-70mhz-4-ch/dp/11AC0569
https://nz.element14.com/rohde-schwarz/rtb2004-rtb2k-74/digital-storage-osc-70mhz-2-ch/dp/2723115?st=rtb2004

I am curious as to why the NZ site has it listed for so much more when at the current exchange rate 2080 USD is just over $3000 NZD... anyone know the reasoning for this?....

And i thought that price hike was ridiculous till I contacted my local distributor who quoted between $5-6k for the base model.

Thanks for any help, Aidan
Nearly NZD4k inc GST for a 4ch 70 MHz DSO sounds crazy when the same $ could get you a 300 MHz 4ch DSO with some $ left over to put toward options.  :popcorn:
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Aidanator7000

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: nz
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2401 on: February 27, 2019, 09:15:33 am »
I'm aware of that but you have to admit the alternatives would not be as polished and/or reputable. In any case that is why I said I am "considering" not am going to... I'm weighing up the available options.


Nearly NZD4k inc GST for a 4ch 70 MHz DSO sounds crazy when the same $ could get you a 300 MHz 4ch DSO with some $ left over to put toward options.  :popcorn:
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16012
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2402 on: February 27, 2019, 09:21:06 am »
 :)
Sure, if you like polished screens.   :P

I do have demos that may make you reconsider.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Aidanator7000

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: nz
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2403 on: February 27, 2019, 09:23:37 am »
Do you demo R&S scopes now?  :-DD

Honestly i think the polished screen makes the product look polished overall... matte screens remind me of a Kindle E-reader.
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17660
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2404 on: February 27, 2019, 09:53:48 am »
I have an RTM3004 as a daily driver scope and the glossy screen doesn't bother me at all.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12001
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2405 on: February 27, 2019, 10:04:43 am »
I have an RTM3004 as a daily driver scope and the glossy screen doesn't bother me at all.
It's very dependent on positioning - not an issue if nothing's reflected in it, showstopper if something is.
 
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
The following users thanked this post: egonotto

Offline Robaroni

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 352
  • Country: us
  • Retired EE
    • Design Specialties
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2406 on: February 27, 2019, 12:53:04 pm »
I have an RTM3004 as a daily driver scope and the glossy screen doesn't bother me at all.
It's very dependent on positioning - not an issue if nothing's reflected in it, showstopper if something is.

I've had both glossy and matte screens on instruments and I actually like the glossy screen more. When I got the scope I set it up to minimize any reflections by adjusting it's angle and position, once I got used to it I never gave it a second thought. I think if you constantly think about and focus on the specular highlights and reflections you will be less prone to look past them. Either way, glossy or matte it's an easy fix. Maybe if I was limited to where I could put instruments it 'might' be more of a concern but I set up my benches with enough flexibility to move things around when a new instrument arrives.
I just checked a few instruments. My FCA3000 Tek counter has a glossy screen as does my TTI power supply and of course the R&S scope. I just shined a light directly into the scope to see if it bothered my viewing. What I found was that I instinctively moved my head about 6 inches to remove the light from the screen. Once I'm deep into a project I look right past any finger prints although I do clean the screen from time to time. I think glossy screens make the waveforms cleaner but I haven't done a side by side comparison.
 

Offline Hydron

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 394
  • Country: gb
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2407 on: February 27, 2019, 12:54:23 pm »
I tried a matte screen protector and then took it off - it worked perfectly well but in the position I had the scope in it was unnecessary. I would not discount the scope because of the glossy screen, as it is miles better than any other scope screen I've ever used (larger and higher resolution - a big part of the reason I bought mine).

As for the price it's the same old story with distributors fucking NZ basically because they can. And they wonder why people buy everything over the net - it's not the GST, it's the massive ripoff factor (normally >>15%)!

Farnell (element14) in the UK has a much more reasonable price compared to the US one in this instance, but they still didn't participate in the 2017 launch promo - to get the deal I had to get one shipped to a friend in the US and picked it up in person (the cost saved paid for a long weekend trip for two to NYC where I picked it up).
 
The following users thanked this post: skench

Offline Aidanator7000

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: nz
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2408 on: February 28, 2019, 03:28:07 am »
well we all know by now that the shiny screen is controversial and depends on preference (its been discussed to death in this thread, and yes, I read it all.)


As for the price it's the same old story with distributors fucking NZ basically because they can. And they wonder why people buy everything over the net - it's not the GST, it's the massive ripoff factor (normally >>15%)!


Anyhow, I find it extremely irritating that I have to pay a ~$700 premium simply because I live somewhere else. I can deal with 15% GST but screwing people over just because is ridiculous.

Has anyone here had experience (or know someone who has had experience) with the R&S Global Bargain Shop? If I can get it from there then its almost a no-brainer but I don't like how little their website says.
 

Offline maginnovision

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1108
  • Country: us
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2409 on: February 28, 2019, 04:10:19 am »
well we all know by now that the shiny screen is controversial and depends on preference (its been discussed to death in this thread, and yes, I read it all.)


As for the price it's the same old story with distributors fucking NZ basically because they can. And they wonder why people buy everything over the net - it's not the GST, it's the massive ripoff factor (normally >>15%)!


Anyhow, I find it extremely irritating that I have to pay a ~$700 premium simply because I live somewhere else. I can deal with 15% GST but screwing people over just because is ridiculous.

Has anyone here had experience (or know someone who has had experience) with the R&S Global Bargain Shop? If I can get it from there then its almost a no-brainer but I don't like how little their website says.

I think the only way around it would be a re-shipper.
 

Offline Hydron

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 394
  • Country: gb
Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2410 on: February 28, 2019, 07:40:49 am »
I recall looking into re-shipment options to both the UK and NZ when I got mine - was gonna be expensive plus Newark were pricks about anything that smelt like someone not in the US trying to buy a unit. There are some other distributors who are nicer to deal with however (in my case, Microlease).
Youshop was not an option btw due to the value of the unit.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 368
  • Country: us
Hi Folks - All PMs replied.  Sorry for my slowness!

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 368
  • Country: us
Hi Folks - All PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline sixtimesseven

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 147
  • Country: ch
  • EE
    • Flickr
Hi Rich

I have to say the Bode option on the RTB2000 is absolutly fantastic.
The division on the screen is good, it is possible to only get the Bode Plot on screen, it is quiet fast. The stepped generator voltage is just a brilliant idea!

Thank you also for including it in the existing package! I already have a freq. response analyzer (HP3577A) and thous would not have paid the additional 500 dollar for now but I will use that HP monster less now.

 
The following users thanked this post: Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

Offline 0xdeadbeef

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1315
  • Country: de
Seems like the 50% RTB-PK1 offer is back - at least at Batronix. Valid until end of June 2019.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
The following users thanked this post: exe

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 368
  • Country: us
Hi Folks - all PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline simone.pignatti

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 328
  • Country: it
yes it is official, active for all R&S partners.
Technical Support
 

Offline rtgvcde

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: de
Hi Rich,

How about people that bought the RTB2K-COM4 package? Can we receive K36 as a free upgrade as well?

Thanks!
FYI - for those of you that have asked this similar question in the PMs, I can confirm that people who own RTx-COM2/COM4 will also receive the K36 as a free upgrade.

-Rich

Hello Rich,

is this a special offer in USA again? I haven't found any information on how to apply for the free upgrade. I bought the RTB-PK1 from Farnell.

If this is not a limited offer it would be nice to post the necessary information here.

Markus
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 368
  • Country: us
Hi Rich,

How about people that bought the RTB2K-COM4 package? Can we receive K36 as a free upgrade as well?

Thanks!
FYI - for those of you that have asked this similar question in the PMs, I can confirm that people who own RTx-COM2/COM4 will also receive the K36 as a free upgrade.

-Rich

Hello Rich,

is this a special offer in USA again? I haven't found any information on how to apply for the free upgrade. I bought the RTB-PK1 from Farnell.

If this is not a limited offer it would be nice to post the necessary information here.

Markus
Hi Markus - it is available worldwide for anyone who purchased a PK1 or COM4 model.  Please send me a PM and I'll give you the details on how to request it.

For everyone else - all PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 368
  • Country: us
Hi Folks - all PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline Nouser2018

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Country: de
Greetings all,

I installed the 02.202 firmware yesterday on my RTB2004. Turns out that there now seems a persistence configured I cannot seem to get rid of. See attached pictures.

  • channel 1 only| sample | persistence off | color default | waveform brightness 80%

When changing for instance the scale, I'd see 1 or 2 wave forms at first, but then the screen fills up until I have this thick line. And as shown in the pictures, line thickness is the same regardless of Y scale. Particulary with large Y scale, I don't know if I'm seeing noise or if it's the scopes functionality.

I find this extremely annoying and am somewhat sure it was different in a previous firmware version. Am I chasing a ghost? How do I restore the previous behavior?

Thanks.
 

Offline PeDre

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: at
I don't understand the results of the SCPI command :SRATe?
How is the waveform sample rate calculated?

Acquisition Record Length: 1 MSa
Time scale: 50 µs/

:ACQuire:POINts:ARATe?;:ACQuire:SRATe?
"1.2500E+09;2.08E+08"

ADC sample rate: 1.25 GSa/s
Waveform sample rate: 208 MSa/s

My attempt at calculation:

12 * 50 µs = 600 µs
1 s / 0.0006 s = 1666.67
1.25 GSa / 1666.67 = 750000 Sa
History No. of Segments is 319 * 750000 Sa = 239.25 MSa/s

Is the 1 MSa record length interpolated when reading the data?

Peter
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 04:11:18 pm by PeDre »
 

Online genghisnico13

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: cl
I don't understand the results of the SCPI command :SRATe?
How is the waveform sample rate calculated?

Acquisition Record Length: 1 MSa
Time scale: 50 µs/

:ACQuire:POINts:ARATe?;:ACQuire:SRATe?
"1.2500E+09;2.08E+08"

ADC sample rate: 1.25 GSa/s
Waveform sample rate: 208 MSa/s

My attempt at calculation:

12 * 50 µs = 600 µs
1 s / 0.0006 s = 1666.67
1.25 GSa / 1666.67 = 750000 Sa
History No. of Segments is 319 * 750000 Sa = 239.25 MSa/s

Is the 1 MSa record length interpolated when reading the data?

Peter
The documentation doesn't seem very clear about it, I am writing a sigrok driver (hopefully to the entire R&S family), and which command you use depends on where you take the data from (CHAN:DATA:POIN DEF/DMAX/MEM), if you use DEF it gives you a little more than the screen data (around 100kSa) and you need to use ACQ:SRAT? and if you use DMAX/MEM you need to use ACQ:POIN:ARAT?. I haven't tested all cases to make sure it works 100%, but so far it seems to work.
In order to use DMAX/MEM the scope can't be running.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 02:43:24 pm by genghisnico13 »
 
The following users thanked this post: PeDre, edavid

Offline PeDre

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Country: at
Why does a relay click when you change the horizontal scaling from 500 µs to 1 ms?

Edit: Might have something to do with the sample rate. The relay only clicks on one active channel per group.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 07:19:14 pm by PeDre »
 

Offline AlexFerro

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: us
PeDre

I just tested that on mine.
With one channel enabled, and thus sample interleaving for 2.5GSPS operation at high sweep speeds, I can reproduce this. It looks like the default conditions change the sample rate from 2.5GSPS to 1.25GSPS between 500us/div and 1ms/div. When a second channel is enabled from the same group it never is in interleaved sampling mode. The relay click appears to be associated with that transition to/from interleaved sampling, and since it no longer needs to be interleaved, the scope changes that internal mode at that point.

I am not familiar with the internal architecture to answer why a relay clicks during that operation, but it would make sense to be associated with the switch to the signal path routing for interleaved mode.

Does that help?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 01:31:33 am by AlexFerro »
Typos and other errors graciously sponsored by my brain and/or the time of day.
 
The following users thanked this post: PeDre


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf