Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 395567 times)

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Online 2N3055

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Agreed. While the RTB promotion makes sense, there is a huge gap with the promo RTM (3200E>8600E) and with the promo RTA barely higher at 10500E, it could have made sense to have an offering in the 5-6kE range.

LOL.
Companies are not here to help us. They exist to make money. This is another one of campaigns where manufacturer is spinning  facts and wanting to create positive emotions.
But all they are doing is trying to move hundreds of scopes that are not selling because original price is frankly idiotic. They are doing this only for 1GHz scopes because nobody buys them.
And all they proved is that 1GHz fully loaded one realistic price is 8600 €. Which is about right..  And they should drop 100MHz and 200MHz models, and start with 350MHz at 3000ish €.
Siglent SDS5000X has the right idea.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Hi Folks - all PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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And all they proved is that 1GHz fully loaded one realistic price is 8600 €. Which is about right.. 
Yeah, while this discount causes the 1GHz full featured version to enter a somewhat realistic price range (and even quite a bit below a full featured Rigol MSO7000 500MHz), limiting the discount to the top model with all features creates some really weird pricing issues. E.g. a used demonstration model of the RTM3104 without any options now costs about the same as a full featured brand new RTM3104 in R&S's own store. Also the 1GHz version without features is now much more expensive than the full featured version. So I guess that more or less all models above 200MHz will be impossible to sell until the discount is over.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline RobBarter

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And my RTM3004 100MHz with all options only arrived a month ago  :palm:
minimal sig so a single msg doesn't take up the entire page!
 

Offline tv84

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Today I bought an MSO5000 but wanted to buy a RTB2004...  :-\

All because this discount only happened in the the full-optioned versions.

 

Online JxR

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Today I bought an MSO5000 but wanted to buy a RTB2004...  :-\

All because this discount only happened in the the full-optioned versions.



Yep, It's too bad they don't just provide the discount at different bandwidth levels.  Not like there is an actual hardware difference between them either, just a software license.  The only reason I have the RTB2004 is because I got it at the original COM4 price when the unit first came out.  Above that price, I would be looking at different manufacturers as well.  I would love to see a heavily discounted RTM3004 @350MHz so I could sale the one I have and trade up.  I don't technically need 1GHz, but would love to have the probe interface, more memory, and the power/spectrum analysis options.
 
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Offline rowifi

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I almost bought a RTB2004 but there are still bugs in it which made it unusable until fixed.
Mainly, Segmented memory, replay with overlay enabled. Doesn't work properly.
There are other bugs in the display, double image after trigger/held but correcting itself if time base adjusted.
 

Online JxR

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I almost bought a RTB2004 but there are still bugs in it which made it unusable until fixed.

"Unusable"?  Give me a break, there hasn't been a bug of that level in its entire life-cycle.  Some people are just drama queens.  If there were actual bugs that made the device unusable the actual owners of the scope would be throwing a fit.  The fact is, the firmware is quite mature at this time and it generally works great.  Are there still improvements to be made, yes, just like every other product.  Is the device currently "unusable", absolutely not.
 
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Online KaneTW

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I'm really happy with my RTB, and I don't think I even encountered a noticeable bug. At first I thought measured risetime was off, but then I added a 50 Ohm termination. Now measured risetime with a 50Ohm inline termination is 980-990ps +-7ps (at 2.5GSa) while without it floats around 1.35-1.5ns +- 50ps (likely due to reflections into the fast edge generator).
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Hi Folks - all PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline rowifi

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Unusable for the purpose  I  needed it for. The  facts are the scope  is here waiting to be collected. The segmented memory replay has bugs. The overlay  function does not work. R&S have acknowledged it and are still working to fix it.  Of course it  works generally, but  a paid for software feature that is  critipcal to analyse the changes between individual segmented trigger captures simply fails.
Spending 3K+ on a tool that doesn't ( yet) do  what it should is hardly being a drama queen. I'm sure they will fix it, but until then it's value to  me is limited.
Clearly most  actual owners haven't used the more in depth features, perhaps they just like the the decoding and touch screen whereas some of us need it to perform as it was intended.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 07:43:21 am by rowifi »
 

Online maginnovision

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Unusable for the purpose  I  needed it for. The  facts are the scope  is here waiting to be collected. The segmented memory replay has bugs. The overlay  function does not work. R&S have acknowledged it and are still working to fix it.  Of course it  works generally, but  a paid for software feature that is  critipcal to analyse the changes between individual segmented trigger captures simply fails.
Spending 3K+ on a tool that doesn't ( yet) do  what it should is hardly being a drama queen. I'm sure they will fix it, but until then it's value to  me is limited.
Clearly most  actual owners haven't used the more in depth features, perhaps they just like the the decoding and touch screen whereas some of us need it to perform as it was intended.

What specifically doesn't work? I'm curious as someone who has used segmented memory and playback for analysis. I'm not sure what you mean by overlay function. Are you referring to a saved waveform?

Also if you bought the scope for a single function that doesn't work I can understand not wanting it but calling it unusable is demonstrably false.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 07:58:03 am by maginnovision »
 
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Online JxR

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Of course it  works generally...
Oh, so it usable then?  A bit dramatic of you to make false statements about the scope in general because you found a bug in one area.  Maybe that is why I called you a drama queen...

Clearly most  actual owners haven't used the more in depth features, perhaps they just like the the decoding and touch screen whereas some of us need it to perform as it was intended.
Clearly you must feel that insulting every other owner of this scope somehow makes you superior.  Best of luck to you, and I hope you manage to find your perfect scope.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 11:18:35 am by JxR »
 

Online KaneTW

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Clearly most  actual owners haven't used the more in depth features, perhaps they just like the the decoding and touch screen whereas some of us need it to perform as it was intended.

Yeah, no. Not only this is insulting, but also just plain wrong. Please don't make generalizing statements like this just because one feature you really need isn't working.
 
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Offline coppice

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Clearly most  actual owners haven't used the more in depth features, perhaps they just like the the decoding and touch screen whereas some of us need it to perform as it was intended.

Yeah, no. Not only this is insulting, but also just plain wrong. Please don't make generalizing statements like this just because one feature you really need isn't working.
Its not insulting. Its just realistic. Most people only use a small subset of the features of most instruments. That's all they need, and they have no incentive to find what other features are even present. Only when the instrument proves annoying do they try to find a new and more effective way to use it.
 

Offline LaurentR

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Promo up on TEquipment in the US:
https://www.tequipment.net/Rohde-and-Schwarz-promotions-and-offers/?utm_campaign=edc&utm_source=tm&obem=o3gmwH16cVG91bBXxAoKOA%3D%3D&bc_lid=11#changeseverything2019

RTC1K-COM2: $1,490.00
RTB2K-COM4: $3,700.00
RTM-COM4US: $9,900.00
RTA-COM4US: $12,000.00

More discounts on fully optioned power supplies, spectrum analyzers... (see link above)
 
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Offline egonotto

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Hi,

no Spectrum analysis and spectrogram 4 R&S®RTA-K18?

best regards
egonotto
 

Online maginnovision

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US doesn't get it, those are unavailable in our market.
 

Online KaneTW

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That's weird. A regulation thing?
 

Online maginnovision

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I have heard about regulations regarding that but I don't have any links. It is in the datasheet that it's not available in US market though.
 

Offline egonotto

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Hi,

it is probably much too dangerous. What not all can happen, if this feature come in wrong hands :)
 

best regards
egonotto
 

Offline rowifi

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Not being an owner does not mean I haven't used the scope in depth. The scope was on evaluation in preparation to buy it with the particular aim to do said measurements of subsequent triggered segment captures.
Measuring the event timing change between each capture requires the scope to display on screen more than a single capture as the segments are replayed.
Without having persistence (overlaying) of separate segments then measuring the differences  is not possible. I can't recall the exact function name.
I'm sorry if some R&S scope fans are triggered by my pointing out flaws but I have plenty of videos of the problem which have been received by R&S who have acknowledge the bug.
As mentioned, few owners probably use all features, many here are just hobbiests, not all will have the extended memory options either.
I really don't get the hostility shown for simply pointing out facts.
Fact is the Rigol 7000 was evaluated prior to this and was a disaster due to bugs. At least R&S engaged. Unfortunately to my knowledge the bug has not been resolved  yet.
 

Offline rowifi

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What specifically doesn't work? I'm curious as someone who has used segmented memory and playback for analysis. I'm not sure what you mean by overlay function. Are you referring to a saved waveform?
PM you with link
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Hi Folks - all PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline artelse

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FYI: There's a whole bunch of RTB2004's and RTM3Ks and a load of other test gear up on auction site:
https://www.troostwijkauctions.com/uk/da-elekmess/01-29457/20/

For example:
https://www.troostwijkauctions.com/uk/oscilloscope-4-channel/03-29457-33390-5714971/

But seeing the current price reduction, one might wonder if it's worth it.
 


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