Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 433106 times)

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Offline nictinkers

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2600 on: October 11, 2019, 10:10:20 am »
The RTB series may be (close to) entry level R&S oscilloscopes but they’re certainly not entry level relative to the oscilloscopes market more generally. Serial bus decoding is thankfully become an included feature even on base model oscilloscopes. I take the point it’s a paid option here but that might be out of an effort to provide institutional / education buyers with a poverty-pack stripped down RTB series option. Something like the test equipment equivalent of a fleet car.

The aggressive bundle pricing and discounts make me think the fully loaded COM2 / COM4 bundles are the default way the scopes should currently be considered. I hope those discounts continue beyond this year.

On closer inspection of the specification sheet, I now see that I misunderstood the decoder limitation. It’s only UART decoding that’s limited to 3 Mbit. I²C goes to 10 Mbit and SPI to 25 Mbit. CAN goes to 2 Mbit and LIN to 2.5 Mbit. That’s not as bad a situation as I thought, though still more limiting than I’d like.
 

Offline DeepLink

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2601 on: October 11, 2019, 11:41:24 am »
A few months back I had the opportunity to try several scopes, including a R&S RTB2K
(very swift response from R&S Denmark, even though I’m a one-man company and only need 1 scope)
The RTB2K was considered only due to the COM4 bundle, otherwise it was to expensive, for me at least.
I also tried a Rigol MSO5000 and a Keysight MSOX3024T
I quickly ruled out the Rigol, due to the very dark screen and the button layout, which I find unintuitive, and the Keysight was turned down due to pricing (and serial decodes cost almost as much as the scope itself)
The RTB2K was pleasant to use, but also had some issues
Screen
-   Large, Hi-res, crisp and bright (one of the best I seen)
-   Glossy screen, which I don’t like as there are to much reflection (can be solved with a matte screen protector)
Probes
-   Very poor, look like some thing left over from Hameg. The RTB2K deserves something better (and without the x1/x10 switch)
-   The BNC doesn’t have automatic recognition of 10x probes (the ring around the BNC is missing)
I do have some very nice Tek and HP probes and as the BNC itself is recessed into the front so some Agilent probes can’t be used. As I only use x10 probes or Coax, it’s annoying to manually switch between x10 and x1

Buttons
-   Nice layout, though I prefer individual controls for each vertical channel
-   Nice with color coding and adjustable light level

Timebase
-   RTB2K uses 1-2-5 scheme, which is standard. But below 200ns, it switches between 10ns, 20ns, 40ns 80 ns & 200ns. I can’t find the explanation for this

So for now I’m still using my trusty old HP 54645D (running +20 years) and a ScanaQuad for bus decoding
Still looking for a replacement…
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2602 on: October 11, 2019, 06:07:33 pm »
Timebase
-   RTB2K uses 1-2-5 scheme, which is standard. But below 200ns, it switches between 10ns, 20ns, 40ns 80 ns & 200ns. I can’t find the explanation

I believe this came up in the thread earlier, but I can't remember the exact reason.
 

Offline JxR

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2603 on: October 11, 2019, 06:13:06 pm »
Timebase
-   RTB2K uses 1-2-5 scheme, which is standard. But below 200ns, it switches between 10ns, 20ns, 40ns 80 ns & 200ns. I can’t find the explanation

I believe this came up in the thread earlier, but I can't remember the exact reason.

Rich explained it here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg1967450/#msg1967450

and here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rohde-schwarz-rtb2004-timebase-quirk/
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 06:20:42 pm by JxR »
 

Offline KaneTW

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2604 on: October 20, 2019, 12:08:55 am »
Another feature request: Peak-to-peak measurements using the DVM and more than one counter.
 

Offline JxR

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2605 on: October 25, 2019, 11:15:27 pm »
So I turned on my scope today and there was a DC offset on all channels :o.  Tried to perform the built in alignment and it failed. My unit is one of the original promotion scopes.

R&S has already issued me an RMA for under warranty repair and it is about to be sent out.  Spoke with Rich as well and he offered to expedite getting a replacement or a loaner, which is fantastic since I'm in the middle of some projects.  Big thank you to Rich again for looking out for the little guys.  Your help is very much appreciated, and the support we receive from you is incredible as always!
 

Online maginnovision

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2606 on: October 26, 2019, 07:53:43 am »
I know this is a bit OT. I built a small Tektronix demo board tonight and tested it. I mostly did this to show the next owner of the 475A what sort of silly things he can do his current siglent might have a tough time with. After I tried the Tek I figured why not try the RTB as well. I'd say it works just fine. I haven't tested pong though as the pots haven't arrived yet. I doubt it'll be as responsive as the Tek, probably not even playable.

EDIT: I also tried a Keysight U1620A and that one was totally useless. I might retry tomorrow since I actually couldn't even begin to make anything out.

EDIT2: You can play pong on the RTB. It's really hard to get a video of it though trying to record and control two paddles.

EDIT 3: Sort of got the Keysight to work. Required high res and infinite persistence. Could have got it to fill in really well but the chip routinely shifts the image to prevent burn in.

EDIT 4: I tried a Micsig TO1152 and it sort of works but the lack of fine vertical controls kills it. The resolution is also pretty low so details are poor. I'm not sure exactly how the x-y mode works but it does seem to use some form of decimated data as cutting memory doesn't affect the image much.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 02:19:52 am by maginnovision »
 
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Online maginnovision

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2607 on: October 26, 2019, 09:34:54 pm »


Ok I was able to make a video of pong/table tennis. Apologies in advance for the music it made me laugh in the context of the video. Also the left paddle moves poorly because of my left hand, not the pot.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 09:37:43 pm by maginnovision »
 
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Offline nictinkers

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2608 on: October 30, 2019, 10:18:11 am »
It took seven weeks of badgering before I managed to get my first response from the Australian distributor. They gave me a price and I sent back a couple of questions that day. That was a week ago now and it’s been radio silence again. It’s like pulling teeth with these guys.  |O

It seems like the only other option for paying Australian dollarydoos for one of these is to pay the outrageous price element 14 wants for one: https://au.element14.com/rohde-schwarz/rtb2k-com4-bundle-rtb2004-b243-b1-pk1/rtb2004-complete-bundle-300-mhz/dp/2723153
 

Offline Kean

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2609 on: October 30, 2019, 02:37:33 pm »
It took seven weeks of badgering before I managed to get my first response from the Australian distributor. They gave me a price and I sent back a couple of questions that day. That was a week ago now and it’s been radio silence again. It’s like pulling teeth with these guys.  |O

It seems like the only other option for paying Australian dollarydoos for one of these is to pay the outrageous price element 14 wants for one: https://au.element14.com/rohde-schwarz/rtb2k-com4-bundle-rtb2004-b243-b1-pk1/rtb2004-complete-bundle-300-mhz/dp/2723153

Have you tried the Australian R&S direct sales?  That's who I've been buying from, and they've been very helpful and beat other pricing like E14.
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/au/service-support/plus-services/service-sales-locator/service-sales-locator_58697.html
 

Offline nictinkers

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2610 on: October 30, 2019, 07:46:44 pm »
Have you tried the Australian R&S direct sales?

Thanks Kean but yes, I started this process talking to them in person at Electronex. They  want to pass me off to the distributor, who don't seem to want to have anything to do with me.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2611 on: October 31, 2019, 08:27:08 pm »
Have you tried the Australian R&S direct sales?

Thanks Kean but yes, I started this process talking to them in person at Electronex. They  want to pass me off to the distributor, who don't seem to want to have anything to do with me.
Can you please PM me the distributor and I'll see if I can light a fire under them via Munich.  Sorry for the trouble.

-Rich
 
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Offline nictinkers

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2612 on: October 31, 2019, 08:29:48 pm »
Thanks Rich but my posts here might have already done that. If I drop off the radar again I'll let you know.
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2613 on: October 31, 2019, 08:47:28 pm »
Sounds good.  Don't hesitate to ping me if there's something I can do.

-Rich
 

Offline Doug_T

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2614 on: November 03, 2019, 06:49:21 pm »
The RTB2K-COM4: $3,700.00 almost attainable price apparently vaporized at the end of October. 
 

Offline Cthulhoid

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2615 on: November 03, 2019, 07:17:39 pm »
The RTB2K-COM4: $3,700.00 almost attainable price apparently vaporized at the end of October.

That's probably an error at Tequipment; Newark and TestEquity both have the correct price, and R&S's website still says $3700 through 31 December.
 


Offline thn788

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2617 on: November 04, 2019, 01:30:04 pm »
BATRONIX (also in Germany) still lists the special offers: https://www.batronix.com/versand/rohde-schwarz/RTB2000.html

And R&S themselves also still list the special offer as "Limited time offer: now through December 31, 2019." for all scopes from the RTC1K series up to RTA4K: https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/de/produkt/pr-oscilloscopes-produkt-startseite_63493-630293.html

The R&S website also shows, which packages are available in which countries and the only special cases are some options not included in some countries for the RTM3K and up. But generally the special offers should still be available world-wide until end of this year, according to R&S.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2618 on: November 04, 2019, 01:51:50 pm »
The RTB2K-COM4: $3,700.00 almost attainable price apparently vaporized at the end of October.

That's probably an error at Tequipment; Newark and TestEquity both have the correct price, and R&S's website still says $3700 through 31 December.
Correct.  We're notifying Tequipment (not sure what happened).  The promo runs through the end of December.  No change. 

-Rich
 

Offline sixtimesseven

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2619 on: November 04, 2019, 02:39:49 pm »
Hi Rich

Any chance the offers also extend to upgrades to existing scopes in the EU?

Thanks :)
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2620 on: November 04, 2019, 02:46:38 pm »
Hi Rich

Any chance the offers also extend to upgrades to existing scopes in the EU?

Thanks :)
Not that I'm aware of.  Were you able to jump on the pk1 bundle promo here recently?  Not sure when/if that will come back, but I'll pass on your suggestion.

-Rich
 

Offline maxspb69

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2621 on: November 14, 2019, 07:22:04 pm »
Hi Rich!

It's almost been a year since the last firmware update. Is any update expected this year?
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2622 on: November 14, 2019, 09:57:31 pm »
Hi Rich!

It's almost been a year since the last firmware update. Is any update expected this year?
I'll check.  Anything in particular you want me to check on?

-Rich
 

Offline maxspb69

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2623 on: November 15, 2019, 12:00:14 pm »
First of all, I am interested in the ability to manage the FFT buffer size. Is such a revision planned? It would also be nice to improve the math capabilities and add  MIL-STD 1553 protocol decoding.
 
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Offline Kittel99

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2624 on: November 16, 2019, 04:41:02 pm »
Hi all,

I am new in this blog and a user of RTB2004 since march and I am also waiting for an update:

For solving few bugs:
- Zoom window is wrong if Menu box is open on right side
- Zoom window is wrong if Display track grid is active
- Pattern Aribitrary: Save and Load again: Nothing will work anymore, only Off/On helps
- Pattern generator: Arbitray Value is not available for Ouick Access (with <<<), (Index works)

And maybe we will get some new features:
- Quick measurement : with Duty
- Search: also for protokoll UArt and SPI
- new Trigger types: Runt, Rise time, Edge A/B
  (here I contacted already R+S Munich and I have got a feedback: reserved for RTB3000...
   sorry, but all other 400,-€ scopes can do this...)

@Rich: thank you for your support - I am a follower of this blog since several months!

...and in summary: I like working with this scope very much - big touchscreen, low noise, on board function generator,  protocol results, ...

Best regards Kittel99
 


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