Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 812230 times)

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Offline EyeDontKnow

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2625 on: January 25, 2020, 04:20:57 am »
I just gifted my older Tek 2246 scope... to my 18yo nephew.
So, it is time for me to modernize my test bench.
I'm looking at the RTB2004... but confused at some of the options and prices.
~$3k, is my goal.

I'm not a EE, just a self-taught home hobbyist who builds:
Analog audio gear,
Eurorack synth music modules,
Linear PSUs (measuring ripple and noise).
Measuring active and passive filters in the audio realm,
Building voltage references as a challenge,
Rehabilitating classic test and music gear.
(this would include testing for opamp oscillation and also testing for room resonances using a calibration microphone)

I also have additional funds for a 3-channel modern PSU, and a new Signal generator.

I'm a little disappointed because I applied for 2 on-line quotes on the R&S site two weeks ago, and have not heard back (I checked spam folder too).
Calling the USA phone#, four hours later I got a call back to then was told to then call a regional rep (los Angeles)...left a message, and so far no call-back. (Phil Luken).

I don't want to add extras and software I don't need, but at the same time I would like to grow into a scope, so some options could be included at the time of purchase if my budget allows it, or see if there is a bundling option..
.....plus probes and cabling.

 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2626 on: January 25, 2020, 04:25:27 am »
I just gifted my older Tek 2246 scope... to my 18yo nephew.
So, it is time for me to modernize my test bench.
I'm looking at the RTB2004... but confused at some of the options and prices.
~$3k, is my goal.

I'm not a EE, just a self-taught home hobbyist who builds:
Analog audio gear,
Eurorack synth music modules,
Linear PSUs (measuring ripple and noise).
Measuring active and passive filters in the audio realm,
Building voltage references as a challenge,
Rehabilitating classic test and music gear.
(this would include testing for opamp oscillation and also testing for room resonances using a calibration microphone)

I also have additional funds for a 3-channel modern PSU, and a new Signal generator.

I'm a little disappointed because I applied for 2 on-line quotes on the R&S site two weeks ago, and have not heard back (I checked spam folder too).
Calling the USA phone#, four hours later I got a call back to then was told to then call a regional rep (los Angeles)...left a message, and so far no call-back. (Phil Luken).

I don't want to add extras and software I don't need, but at the same time I would like to grow into a scope, so some options could be included at the time of purchase if my budget allows it, or see if there is a bundling option..
.....plus probes and cabling.
Lucky nephew!  The 2246 is a nice scope. 

And I'm very sorry to hear about the troubles you're having getting information from us - please shoot me a PM with your contact info and I'll get the right person in touch with you shortly.

Thanks for considering the RTB2000.

-Rich
 

Offline EyeDontKnow

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2627 on: February 01, 2020, 12:36:46 am »
Rich has offered some very good help......thanks Rich.
I was able to get in contact with a regional distributor (Test Equity, Newberry Park, CA) to purchase a new scope.
But, it did take some diligence on my part, as R&S never replied to my online "click here for a quote"......and that seems strange to me, . If they really want to sell what they offer., why was there no reply ?
You would think an eager buyer would have a bit of priority......with money burning in their pocket.

All said and done, I have an RTB2004 ordered, and being sent to me free shipping.
I'll chalk this up to......if you want something, go get it.....don't be perturbed if it takes some extra effort.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2628 on: February 01, 2020, 12:56:11 am »
Let me know how that goes for you. I've ordered 3 things from them and the only thing I received within a month(all labelled in stock) was my RTB when it was released. The other times I've had to contact them a few times. Last thing I ordered I never even paid for because after two months I charged it back and then a few days later they shipped it and never responded to my MULTIPLE emails asking how to pay them for it. Oh, they're also 15 minutes away from me.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2629 on: February 03, 2020, 04:19:04 am »
I'm sorry you folks had trouble ordering.  It shouldn't be so difficult.  If there is one positive, as I told EyeDontKnow via PM, we've had a lot of internal discussions about EyeDontKnow's issues.  I'm hoping to see some changes to make sure we're more responsive.

maginnovision - are you in Columbia?  If so, next time I'm out there (I travel out every other month or so), maybe I can set up a tour for you of our facilities.  PM me if you'd be interested.

-Rich
 

Offline kaz911

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2630 on: February 03, 2020, 08:33:55 am »
The normal bug from manufacture handling leads are
1. Manufacture receive your request
2. then they pass it on to a dealer
3. and the dealer says "hmm only 1 scope - i'll deal with that later" - and promptly forgets.
4. And no follow up is done from main source of lead (manufacture)

I know from own experience that happens in just about 75% of the request for quotes I do. But it is not limited to R&S.

But it does provide an opportunity to get a much larger discount when dealer stands there with teary eyes after having been told off by Manufacture.

But it does not only happen with external dealers. Some companies internal sales departments are not much better.



 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2631 on: February 03, 2020, 03:31:41 pm »
Didn't have such problem with R&S in Germany. I needed one scope and I even though I decided to buy an HMO1000, which isn't actually a R&S but a Hameg design, referral to the distributor worked without a hitch... Seems more a local problem.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Harjit

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2632 on: February 03, 2020, 07:36:46 pm »
Something must have changed in the last year because I got a very prompt response (in the US) when I used the give me a quote button.

Glad to see that Rich is chasing it down.

Did the new firmware for the RTB2004 ship?
 

Offline EyeDontKnow

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2633 on: February 17, 2020, 08:22:01 pm »
My new RTB2004 300Mhz scope arrived, (with the latest firmware and apps installed.)
I was eventually  told there was a one month "back order"...but alas, it somehow arrived within a week.
All is good.
Then a day later, a second "duplicate" scope was delivered from a different address.......probably because I was a polite  "squeaky wheel".
 I'll be returning the extra package, as I appreciate all the efforts, once I made personal contacts.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 08:24:31 pm by EyeDontKnow »
 

Offline Weston

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2634 on: February 26, 2020, 03:13:39 am »
My RTB2004 arrived today! I have spent a few hours fiddling with it and it has been a joy to use.z Many thanks to Rich and the people at TEquipment for helping me deal with some issues relating to the edu discount.

I am happy to now own a scope designed and made in Europe. My old rigol, my very first scope, is going to the kid of a family friend. Hopefully it will get him into electronics.

One minor thing to note is that the manual claims that the probes are pre-adjusted for the scope when they are not. Spending some time adjusting the probes I realized that the ground clip on the compensation output is designed to cradle to probe and keep it in place without any external force, such a convenient feature!
 
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Offline Hydron

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2635 on: February 26, 2020, 10:52:44 am »
The cradle can be a bit of a fiddle when compensating other probes, but does work well with the included ones. The compensation output is pretty quick btw - risetime under 1ns.
As for the included probes, mine didn't come with BNC adaptors unfortunately, but they are made by the OEM "Hong Kong Texas" with the same OEM used by Lecroy, Picoscope etc, so you should be able to get accessories from a few places.

Edit: oh and I found the "pre compensated probe" claim to be BS too - why do they even say that when compensating a probe is a fundamental part of using a scope?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2020, 11:00:42 am by Hydron »
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2636 on: February 26, 2020, 09:34:18 pm »
I'll let Munich know about the compensation note in the manual. 

-Rich
 

Offline MikeP

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2637 on: February 27, 2020, 09:09:43 pm »
 Dear Rich.
 Please ask in Munich when the new software arrives. For more than a year now I have not been able to use FFT for low frequencies. :horse:
 Is there any way to get back to the old version?
 Thanks.
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2638 on: February 28, 2020, 02:34:50 pm »
Dear Rich.
 Please ask in Munich when the new software arrives. For more than a year now I have not been able to use FFT for low frequencies. :horse:
 Is there any way to get back to the old version?
 Thanks.
I've talked with Munich.  Unfortunately, the next revision of firmware (and honestly, it sounds like all future revisions) won't change the FFT behavior for low frequencies.   Having said that, you can send an email to customer support and ask them to provide FW: V02.101  for the RTB2000

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/au/service-support/service-sales-locator/service-sales-locator_58697.html

This is a fairly old FW, so there will be bugs that have since been fixed, but the FFT won't slow down significantly when working in low frequencies.

And since I'm sure I'll get asked "why", I didn't get a lot of details but it sounds like there are some limitations in finding a sweet spot for the FFT and the team has decided to optimize for other areas outside of low frequency.  I know this isn't ideal for some of you  :(, but hopefully the ability to use older FW will help. 

-Rich
 
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Offline KaneTW

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2639 on: February 28, 2020, 02:36:03 pm »
It's kind of a stupid workaround but I just transfer the data to my PC and DSP/FFT it from there.
 

Offline MikeP

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2640 on: February 29, 2020, 03:18:36 pm »
 What a surprise.  :wtf: I can do my work, but I can not play with my toys!

It's kind of a stupid workaround but I just transfer the data to my PC and DSP/FFT it from there.

  Yes, I can live on the street and look through the windows in to my house ... This is not a solution.
  I will write a letter with a request to change the structure of the FFT. And I urge everyone to make the same request!

 Rich, does RTA have such a phenomenon?
 

Offline MikeP

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2641 on: February 29, 2020, 04:05:00 pm »
 I have all the firmware saved. I did not dare to think that I could go back ...  |O
 I can play with my toys again!
 Rich, is harm from frequent firmware changes is possible?
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Rich, is harm from frequent firmware changes is possible?
No harm  :-+

-Rich
 
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Offline ppeterl

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Dear Rich.
 Please ask in Munich when the new software arrives. For more than a year now I have not been able to use FFT for low frequencies. :horse:
 Is there any way to get back to the old version?
 Thanks.
I've talked with Munich.  Unfortunately, the next revision of firmware (and honestly, it sounds like all future revisions) won't change the FFT behavior for low frequencies.   Having said that, you can send an email to customer support and ask them to provide FW: V02.101  for the RTB2000

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/au/service-support/service-sales-locator/service-sales-locator_58697.html

This is a fairly old FW, so there will be bugs that have since been fixed, but the FFT won't slow down significantly when working in low frequencies.

And since I'm sure I'll get asked "why", I didn't get a lot of details but it sounds like there are some limitations in finding a sweet spot for the FFT and the team has decided to optimize for other areas outside of low frequency.  I know this isn't ideal for some of you  :(, but hopefully the ability to use older FW will help. 

-Rich

Rich,

I find this news quite disappointing, actually. I have postponed my amplifier project for a year now, awaiting a usable FFT on the scope for audio frequencies. Not to worry, I have multiple other projects on the side, so I'm not totally out of projects to work on in the mean time.

The one thing I've been waiting for is to be able tune a pot to minimize some harmonic, and that can't be done in 4 sec slideshow-mode, which is where the R&S FFT is at the moment. And cheaper scopes can do that easily - as shown in the link I posted previously in this thread: https://youtu.be/b_PnT7lq9Xg?t=774 (12:53 in if ads kick in). I though I'd have that covered by going for a higher prized (10x) reputed brand, thinking that they will at least be on par with cheaper Chinese options. Apparently not so.

Now, what equipment does R&S recommend me to use to tune that pot, now that we learned that the scope won't do it, and at what prize?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 10:50:14 pm by ppeterl »
 
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Offline Joel_l

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I find this news quite disappointing, actually. I have postponed my amplifier project for a year now, awaiting a usable FFT on the scope for audio frequencies. Not to worry, I have multiple other projects on the side, so I'm not totally out of projects to work on in the mean time.



For audio, have you looked into using your PC sound card and software?
 

Offline MikeP

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 RTB can be a versatile and serious tool. I like it (still) so much that I planned to buy a higher model. Now I have a question - to buy an additionally cheap two-channel PTB with the old firmware for low-frequency applications ?! Three oscilloscopes. This is idiocy. Then I do not need an existing oscilloscope!
  I work with 400Hz and 50Hz converters, I work a lot with sound. And I am not alone with such tasks. Incredible situation. This is a car that cannot drive slower than 40 km / h!
 
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Offline maginnovision

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You could just buy something better suited to this particular task or sell the R&S and get something better suited. Either way if it doesn't work for you make sure you have something that does.
 

Offline Harjit

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Is there a new version of FW for the RTB2004 coming out anytime soon? The last release was more than a year ago.
 

Offline ppeterl

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For audio, have you looked into using your PC sound card and software?

Yes, that's where I'm going. It would however be convenient to have it on the scope for quick adjustments. Setting up the laptop, fiddling with software etc is kind of a meh. Also, space is premium here. I was hoping that a good allrounder scope would suffice.
 
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Offline Chefbastler

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Is there a new version of FW for the RTB2004 coming out anytime soon? The last release was more than a year ago.

I hope too.
The actual version have some bugs around the logik protocol analyzer, signal generator, ...
I sent a bug report to R&S last year.
 


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