Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 409523 times)

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Offline irakandjii

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I just noticed this scope does not seem to have a "persistence" mode in the display.  Am I missing something? 

If it is not there, is this a significant issue?  I am still not really sure how useful it is, but it seems to be a big talking point on competitive scopes.  So some real advice would be useful.
 

Offline ruairi

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I just noticed this scope does not seem to have a "persistence" mode in the display.  Am I missing something? 

If it is not there, is this a significant issue?  I am still not really sure how useful it is, but it seems to be a big talking point on competitive scopes.  So some real advice would be useful.

A quick search of the manual says it has persistence controls as you'd expect.

 

Offline irakandjii

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I just noticed this scope does not seem to have a "persistence" mode in the display.  Am I missing something? 

If it is not there, is this a significant issue?  I am still not really sure how useful it is, but it seems to be a big talking point on competitive scopes.  So some real advice would be useful.

A quick search of the manual says it has persistence controls as you'd expect.

Doh.. oh yes right there under intensity ... thank you!

ok that's it I'm going to bed.

 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Just been having a more detailed look through the manual.
Some unusual features :

USB - can be configured as
TMC ( test/measure class - like most scopes)
VCP - COM port for SCPI commands via terminal  - no LXI drivers etc.needed  just so send some simple commands
Mass Storage - scope appears as a drive on the PC

Grid can be made to track the waveform as you scroll. Could be really handy for manually decoding serial protocols - keeping timeslots in a consistent place.
Time/Voltage values shown on every grid line ( optional)

1gbit ethernet - appears to support live screen updates via web interface. (Even mentions using a RasPi to do it for low-cost HDMI output!)

Colour intensity modes, and  inverse mode - infrequent signals show up more brightly - sounds really useful for catching occasional glitches etc.

Simultaneous XY and waveform display, and XYY to display 2 Y axes ( 3-phase?)

Defaults to 50mS persistance  ( can be turned off) I noticed this in the Polish demo, Not sure how I feel about that - wondering if it's to hide something in zero-persistence mode.

Envelope acquisition mode - think I'll have to see it to understand if useful

Adjustable hysteresis on trigger input

"set to trace"  for manual cursors - sets cursors to one cycle/ peak-peak of current trace

Adjustable front-panel LED brightness

Obvious omissions :
No Nth-edge burst or runt pulse trigger
No integration/difference maths function 
No event search ( never used it myself but I can see how could be useful)
No foreign language help, only menus etc. ( expect that may get done at some point)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 12:28:51 am by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline mrpackethead

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Exactlty like Altium, PNP machines and anything that costs more than $1000..   I always go and look for the best deal they have done and that sets the price that i'm prepared to pay.   

On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline kwass

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Just been having a more detailed look through the manual.
.......
Obvious omissions :
No Nth-edge burst or runt pulse trigger
No integration/difference maths function 
No event search ( never used it myself but I can see how could be useful)
No foreign language help, only menus etc. ( expect that may get done at some point)

I saw runt pulse triggering in one of the documents (there are many) on their site, same for event search.  Math/s functions do seem limited however.  I've found from my reading and demo watching (there are series of app demos on their site too) that there's much that is in this scope that's not in the current version of the manual.

Here's the trigger system document that says it has runt pulse triggering:  https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/service_support_30/RTH_Faster_ac_en_3607-3339-92_v0100.pdf

Search is front panel button and is mentioned under the "Analysis Controls" section in the user manual:

Quote

SEARCH

Enables the search with the last configured setup. The second keypress opens the
"Search" menu, where you can perform a search for various events in an acquisition -
for example, peaks or specific width conditions - and analyze the search results.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 04:14:00 am by kwass »
-katie
 

Offline snoopy

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Looks like this R&S scope has stolen the limelight away from Keysights new offering. Maybe saving your money and getting a 'real' scope was good advice from Keysight ;)
 

Online coppice

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Looks like this R&S scope has stolen the limelight away from Keysights new offering. Maybe saving your money and getting a 'real' scope was good advice from Keysight ;)
The R&S scope isn't competing with Keysight's new scope, so they probably aren't getting the same people's interest.
 

Offline mrpackethead

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Looks like this R&S scope has stolen the limelight away from Keysights new offering. Maybe saving your money and getting a 'real' scope was good advice from Keysight ;)
The R&S scope isn't competing with Keysight's new scope, so they probably aren't getting the same people's interest.

No but its competing with their other scopes,  ( like the 3000X
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline agdr

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Quantifying the noise floor
« Reply #284 on: March 17, 2017, 07:11:56 am »

Q.  Does the ADC run at 10-bits even at 1mV/div?
A.  Yes.  You also get full bandwidth.  The scope also has very good noise for this class of instrument.


Rich, could you get the lab to quantify that at 100Mhz and the 300MHz of the RTB2004 sales special?  I was just leafing through the 6000 series Keysight website and noticed they do, below.  115 uVrms noise floor at 1mV/div at 1GHz BW.  I've searched through the RTB200o0 datasheet here

https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/RTB2000_dat-sw_en_3607-4270-22_v0400.pdf   (opens PDF)

and I'm not finding the number in the vertical section.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 07:15:49 am by agdr »
 
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Offline Neganur

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I saw runt pulse triggering in one of the documents (there are many) on their site, same for event search.  Math/s functions do seem limited however.  I've found from my reading and demo watching (there are series of app demos on their site too) that there's much that is in this scope that's not in the current version of the manual.

Here's the trigger system document that says it has runt pulse triggering:  https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/service_support_30/RTH_Faster_ac_en_3607-3339-92_v0100.pdf

I think, judging by the link name, that's for a different scope (the RTH series)
 

Online coppice

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Looks like this R&S scope has stolen the limelight away from Keysights new offering. Maybe saving your money and getting a 'real' scope was good advice from Keysight ;)
The R&S scope isn't competing with Keysight's new scope, so they probably aren't getting the same people's interest.

No but its competing with their other scopes,  ( like the 3000X
Uh, yeah, that's what new products are supposed to do. They tend to fail miserably if they don't.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Looks like this R&S scope has stolen the limelight away from Keysights new offering. Maybe saving your money and getting a 'real' scope was good advice from Keysight ;)

Half an order of magnitude price difference.
 

Offline nfmax

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Looks like this R&S scope has stolen the limelight away from Keysights new offering. Maybe saving your money and getting a 'real' scope was good advice from Keysight ;)

Half an order of magnitude price difference.

I make it 13dB more expensive
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Just got an answer from the UK guy re, Europe. Looks like it's time to look at reshippers.
Looks like distributors didn't want to upset their other suppliers.
Quote
I investigated into this, and this was promotion was offered to our European distributors as well. But none of them were ready to take this on (it's beyond me why). The closet we got is with Farnell who have this going on currently,

http://uk.farnell.com/rohde-schwarz/rtb2k-com4-launch-edition/rtb2004-complete-bundle-300-mhz/dp/2723153?ost=RTB2004+COM4&selectedCategoryId=&categoryNameResp=All&searchView=table&iscrfnonsku=false

So, for the price of a 300MHz model, all the options all included free of charge. It's never to say that we will not have the same deal in Europe as we run promotions every 6 months. So watch this space.
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Offline RGB255_0_0

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There has to be some anti-competitive laws against that  :--
Your toaster just set fire to an African child over TCP.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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There has to be some anti-competitive laws against that  :--
Hard to see how. Farnell are offering a bundle with all options for price of 300MHz model. Others just chose not to offer the promotion.
Just simple business - they make more margin  on more expensive models and competing units than a  bargain-basement special.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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If anyone does investigate reshipping, please post your experience here.
I have asked about the warranty position.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
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Offline AR

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I don't know if this has clearly been stated this anywhere  but the MAX FFT sample size is 10M and not 128k on the RTB2000 series . I confirmed this with the local R&S branch today.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 09:44:59 am by AR »
 

Offline MrW0lf

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I don't know if this has clearly been stated this anywhere  but the MAX FFT sample size is 10M and not 128k on the RTB2000 series . I confirmed this with the local R&S branch today.

Screenshot with zoom on "impossible" details or I dont buy it. It might be 10M is maximum recordset of samples, based on what it does FFT with 128K bins.
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Just ordered the 2004 Promotional deal from TEq. 

The Rigol mso4000 couldn't knock my old trusty TDS210 off the bench, maybe this one can.   :popcorn:

Offline Neganur

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The only thing left that bothers me is the lack of 50 ohm inputs and I think i have not thought this through before.

Is a feed through terminator really sufficient?
What a out noise from the 1M. Will this work well enough with active probes that support generic 50ohm ? How woul I compensate such a scenario?

200-300MHz is not really low frequency in my eyes. You can easily get into trouble by just measuring the output of a fast EXOR gate.

Or is this a case of using the wrong tool (I.e.  improper bandwidth scope)
 
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Offline irakandjii

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The only reference I can find for the RTB2004 included items states 300 Mhz probes for the scope.  The manual indicates you should have 1.5X the bandwidth as a minimum probe specification.

Can Rich or anyone else confirm what actually comes with the 300 Mhz version of this scope?
 

Offline kaz911

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I often re-ship stuff from the US. Now one of my re-shippers actually have a 7-14 day shipping option taking cost down a lot for across the pond (www.myus.com)

Before they had only 4-7 day options at about 2-3 times the price. And you only pay per TRUE KG and not for volumetric measurement. I have 15 Lbs of defective Keysight N67xx power modules going that way at the moment. And I might add an R&S scope to that pile :)
 

Offline irakandjii

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I too was worried about the 50 ohm termination issue (lack of knowledge).  I did a search and found this information.

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/101634/terminating-a-50-ohm-source-into-1m-ohm-oscilloscope-input

"If you don't have access to a 50 ohm feedthrough terminator, a T-connector with a 50 ohm termination should work just as well. This was standard practice at my old company when we used external hall-effect current probes with our 1M ohm scopes.
(Aside: I personally prefer using external 50? terminators even if the scope supports 50 ohm : they're usually capable of handling more power, and if you accidentally hook up something incorrectly, at least you're blowing an inexpensive and easily-replaceable component vs. necessitating a potentially expensive scope repair!)"

This was what I thought from my university days .. some 40 odd years ago.  That being said, knowledge and technical practice march on.  Is there something wrong with using the "good old" 50 ohm Tee connector?  Is there a practical impact?
 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 12:45:12 pm by irakandjii »
 


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