Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 409534 times)

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Online Neganur

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Try to look at the info from the folks who actually sell them (e.g. Tequipment.net):

Quote
What's In The Box

(1) RTB2004 Digital oscilloscope (70 MHz 4 channel)
(1) RTB-B243 Upgrade of R&S RTB2004 oscilloscope to 300 MHz bandwidth
(1) RTB-B1 Mixed Signal Upgrade for non-MSO models (250 MHz)
(1) RTB-B6 ARB Generator
(1) RTB-K1 I2C/SPI Trigger and Decode
(1) RTB-K2 UART/RS232 Trigger and Decode
(1) RTB-K3 CAN/LIN Trigger and Decode
(1) RTB-K15 History and Segment Meomry
(1) RT-ZP03 300 MHz/10 MHz, 10:1/1:1, 10 M?/1 M?, 400 V, 12 pF/82 pF Single-ended Passive Probe
(1) Power Cord

Probe manual: http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Rohde___Schwarz_RT-ZP03_User_Manual.pdf
Probes datasheet: http://assets.tequipment.net/assets/1/26/Rohde___Schwarz_RT-ZXX_Standard_Probes_Datasheet.pdf

The only reference I can find for the RTB2004 included items states 300 Mhz probes for the scope.  The manual indicates you should have 1.5X the bandwidth as a minimum probe specification.

Can Rich or anyone else confirm what actually comes with the 300 Mhz version of this scope?

The Keysight 4000X scope (1.5GHz) also comes with passive probes that only go to 700 MHz. It's not unusual to not get the optimal probe for the scope for free, but rather a general purpose one.
 

Offline ovnr

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I was reasonably ready to go buy one if the US promotion appeared in Europe, because it's a very good deal and a bit hard to pass up. But since I can't really afford dumping £2000 on a scope now - let alone £5000! - I'm not going to bother.

I might grab one later on if people manage to unlock all the things tho. We shall see.
 

Offline irakandjii

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Thank you Neganur, that was one of the references I mentioned in my post.   

However, I have purchased elsewhere and was told that it is up to R&S what they actually put in the box.  Hence, my question to Rich on this forum.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Reportedly 200 launch offer units worldwide and moving quickly. Sure we'll see a few reselling on ebay when they're done
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Online Bud

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.  Is there something wrong with using the "good old" 50 ohm Tee connector?  Is there a practical impact?

Yes there is. It is never there anywhere on the bench when you need it.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline kaz911

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Spec sheet says 1 probe per channel as standard pg. 18 - (http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2236537.pdf)

And probes are the RT-ZP03's - no matter which scope configuration you buy. (https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_manuals/gb_1/r/rt_zp/RT-ZP03_UserManual_de_en_02.pdf)

 

Offline Carrington

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It seems that other manufacturers are applying promotions or discounts too, for example: Tektronix, GW Instek and probably some other manufacturers as well.

http://www.gwinstek.com/en-US/Page/ECEDHA_Education_Promotion
http://info.tek.com/EN-TEKENCORE1703-EM.html
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/index.aspx

Surely, they only do it because they love us.  >:D
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 02:50:22 pm by Carrington »
My English can be pretty bad, so suggestions are welcome. ;)
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Quantifying the noise floor
« Reply #307 on: March 17, 2017, 02:48:49 pm »

Q.  Does the ADC run at 10-bits even at 1mV/div?
A.  Yes.  You also get full bandwidth.  The scope also has very good noise for this class of instrument.


Rich, could you get the lab to quantify that at 100Mhz and the 300MHz of the RTB2004 sales special?  I was just leafing through the 6000 series Keysight website and noticed they do, below.  115 uVrms noise floor at 1mV/div at 1GHz BW.  I've searched through the RTB200o0 datasheet here

https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_brochures_and_datasheets/pdf_1/RTB2000_dat-sw_en_3607-4270-22_v0400.pdf   (opens PDF)

and I'm not finding the number in the vertical section.

Thanks!
Hi agdr - I can try to help some here, but as you know noise is pretty complicated and can be tough to compare apples to apples.  A couple comments:

1.  The 6000X is a higher-end scope, more in line price and BW-wise with our RTO family of scopes.  For that compare, we are 100uVrms at 1GHz and 1mV/div.  But we also have 10 vertical divisions (vs. 8 on the 6000X), so it would normally be viewed as a "percent of full scale", which for the RTO would be 1% and for the Keysight 6000X would be 1.4%.

2.  I don't have a 100MHz RTB, but I do have a 300MHz RTB.  Again, we use 10 divisions, we are 100uVrms at 1mV/div and 300MHz.  I also have a DSOX3034A.  It is 213uVrms at 1mV/div and 300MHz (1MOhm path).  Again, at 8 divisions.  Looking at percent of full scale, the RTB is 1%.  The 3000X is 2.7%.  I don't have any other scopes that are 300MHz unfortunately so we can compare fully apples to apples.

-Rich
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 02:57:18 pm by Rich@RohdeScopesUSA »
 

Offline agdr

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Re: Quantifying the noise floor
« Reply #308 on: March 17, 2017, 03:11:09 pm »
Hi agdr - I can try to help some here, but as you know noise is pretty complicated and can be tough to compare apples to apples. 

Thank you!  That makes me glad I bought one of your introduction special scope bundles yesterday.  :)    Yeah I originally had a sentence in there like "Not saying the 6000 series is comparable to the RTB2000, just that the other guys are publishing noise floor numbers" but deleted it.  Keysight's 3000 or 4000 series is actually the "other" choice I've been looking at, the 3034A in fact, so your test here is right on the money.

No shipping confirm from Tequipment on your bundle yet. I'll have to call them today.  Are the distributors supposed to have that bundle in stock, or do they order them from R&S as orders come in?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 03:14:49 pm by agdr »
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: Quantifying the noise floor
« Reply #309 on: March 17, 2017, 03:19:29 pm »
Hi agdr - I can try to help some here, but as you know noise is pretty complicated and can be tough to compare apples to apples. 

Thank you!  That makes me glad I bought one of your introduction special scope bundles yesterday.  :)    Yeah I originally had a sentence in there like "Not saying the 6000 series is comparable to the RTB2000, just that the other guys are publishing noise floor numbers" but deleted it.  Keysight's 3000 or 4000 series is actually the "other" choice I've been looking at, the 3034A in fact, so your test here is right on the money.

No shipping confirm from Tequipment on your bundle yet. I'll have to call them today.  Are the distributors supposed to have that bundle in stock, or do they order them from R&S as orders come in?
They all have (had) them in stock, but demand has been strong.  I think your best bet is to contact them directly to see lead times.  And thanks for your order!  I think you'll be pleased  :-+

-Rich
 

Online nctnico

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This was what I thought from my university days .. some 40 odd years ago.  That being said, knowledge and technical practice march on.  Is there something wrong with using the "good old" 50 ohm Tee connector?  Is there a practical impact?
There is nothing wrong with a 50 Ohm terminator on a Tee just don't think a 1M Ohm input will work well at high frequencies (150MHz is pushing the limits)
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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The only reference I can find for the RTB2004 included items states 300 Mhz probes for the scope.  The manual indicates you should have 1.5X the bandwidth as a minimum probe specification.

Can Rich or anyone else confirm what actually comes with the 300 Mhz version of this scope?
Hi irakandjii - you can ignore my PM now - I found your question.  Sorry for missing it earlier.  All RTB2000s come with the ZP03 probe standard, including the 300MHz model. 

-Rich
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Another vid, from Brazil this time...
Thanks for sharing that, Mike. Despite the video uses a somewhat annoying background music and there are some unfortunate cuts on it (during the protocol analyzer setup, for instance), the UI looks pretty responsive and it is well rounded with features.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline maginnovision

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I was in the market for a low-mid range scope. I saw scopemonth and figured maybe I'd get a 1000x free. When I saw this launch special I went ahead and just ordered one. Looks like a great value(Here in us, 2287 with tax). Compared to the 1000x from keysight its about 500-600 more with options I want but that big screen is hard to say no to, and virtually everything is better. Now if only testequity would get ship it or let me pick it up.

They all have (had) them in stock, but demand has been strong.  I think your best bet is to contact them directly to see lead times.  And thanks for your order!  I think you'll be pleased  :-+

-Rich

Any way you could say what kind of limit there is on launch bundle, or a range, estimated stock time? I'd consider buying more assuming it works as well as it looks like it should. Paying for the range of options though... I'm not sure it's terribly competitive with that factored in.
 

Offline Hydron

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Hi Rich,

Is there any update/official position on warranty for units purchased from US suppliers and shipped to Europe? E.g. would there be an option to send to a R&S location in Europe rather than back to US supplier in the event that it needed service?

Asking as even taking shipping and tax into account it would save nearly $3.5k vs buying in the UK (could fly business across the pond to pick up in person for that money!)
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Quote from: maginnovision
Any way you could say what kind of limit there is on launch bundle, or a range, estimated stock time?
I heard 200 worldwide. Possibly other promotions in 6 months' time, but I'd be surprised to see anything close to the current one
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
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Offline LaserEng

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Hope it's worth the hype, just did an impulse purchase from Tequipment to be shipped to Shipito my preferred US forwareder, to be shipped to Thailand. Hopefully the Thai customs won't be too greedy when it comes through.

I have a feeling though that Tequipment may be struggling with demand and am fully expecting the order gets cancelled, the price shifted up nearly a $100 in the day it took me to decide to place the order.
 

Offline Stwspoon

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I bought a HMO 1212 last summer. I really like it and recently looked into getting the serial decode option (HO-010 + H0-3508 logic probe ~ $750) when I saw the RTB2004 thread.

Does Rich or anyone know of any discounts or bundles on the 12xx series that may become available?  I am tempted by the RTB2004 deal, but I can't drop > $2000 on anything this close to Tax season :-(

Stan W
 

Offline agdr

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Re: Quantifying the noise floor
« Reply #318 on: March 17, 2017, 05:06:30 pm »
They all have (had) them in stock, but demand has been strong.  I think your best bet is to contact them directly to see lead times.  And thanks for your order!  I think you'll be pleased  :-+

I just spoke with Tequipment.  Sure enough, however it works out, R&S is shipping to them (shipped out today, they say), then they will forward to me.  Sounds like a couple of days for them to get the scope from the R&S warehouse.  I'll bet the one or two they may have had in stock were snapped up within minutes of the bundle announcement.

The larger screen and higher resolution of the RTB2000's are making that default of 10 vertical divisions possible, vs the 8 on the Keysight and on my Rigol 2000 series here.  Wow, no more doing math in my head like "what is 5 volts divided by 8 divisions?" Now I just move the decimal.  And those on-screen division labels!  You guys are making this easy.  Isn't using a scope supposed to be a struggle?  ;D

So you now have some customer proof that the RTB2000's are pulling some sales away from the below-350 MHz portion of the Keysight 3000 series as well as the 2000's.  I know the 2000 was one of the direct compare marketing sheets.  For me the higher waveforms per second, higher sampling rate, more math functions, and (available at least) power analysis software lost out to the bigger (still touch!) screen, 10 bit ADC, more memory, price! (especially this bundle), MSO capability without having to buy the next $1.5K more MSO model up, and now lower noise floor.

EDIT: Even having a set of vertical controls per channel on the Keysight lost out to the single set on the R&S.  I folded like a cheap suit on that requirement when the bundle came along.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 08:17:31 pm by agdr »
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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I've just been told that it may be possible to buy direct from R&S UK, but not clear if US bundle price available.
Quote
On the plus side, we can sell the RTB's directly though R&S UK. So we might be able to offer a better deal in most scenarios.
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Offline rrinker

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.  Is there something wrong with using the "good old" 50 ohm Tee connector?  Is there a practical impact?

Yes there is. It is never there anywhere on the bench when you need it.

 Back in the days of coax Ethernet and Arcnet, I always had an animal 'sculpture' made of T connectors and terminators on my desk. I haven't seen one personally in probably 15 years.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Quote from: maginnovision
Any way you could say what kind of limit there is on launch bundle, or a range, estimated stock time?
I heard 200 worldwide. Possibly other promotions in 6 months' time, but I'd be surprised to see anything close to the current one

Wow, if that's accurate I hope there are no fulfillment issues. Considering the normal price though, it seems reasonable.
 

Offline kkessler

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 Back in the days of coax Ethernet and Arcnet, I always had an animal 'sculpture' made of T connectors and terminators on my desk. I haven't seen one personally in probably 15 years.

Because I never throw anything out, or so my wife claims, I still have some T's and Terminators left from the good old days.
 

Offline LaurentR

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Anybody knows how quiet the  scope is? Having a piece of TE that's quiet out of the box would be great for a change.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:57:58 pm by LaurentR »
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Just heard from someone that Testequity wouldn't ship to a UPS hub, or if a non-US phone number given
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
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