Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 809691 times)

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Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3000 on: February 12, 2022, 07:00:41 am »
Quote
in RTA4004 there a 1.1 more error. [...] and in the CAN text is "RTB2000".

Seems your RTA has a bit of an identity crises....  ;)

(My Keysight alse sends out an "Agilent!" string as part of its serial training siglent, but thats a slightly different thing...)

Best regards, RBBVNL9
 
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Offline egonotto

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3001 on: February 12, 2022, 12:06:32 pm »
Hello,

the RTA4004 has the same error as RBBVNL9 describes " the scope only triggers in CAN (ID&data) if you set the exact right message length, while in LIN that is not the case...".
Moreover in german often they write adresse where identifier is meant.

Best regards
egonotto
 
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Offline RBBVNL9

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3002 on: February 12, 2022, 02:51:13 pm »
Quote
the RTA4004 has the same error as RBBVNL9 describes " the scope only triggers in CAN (ID&data) if you set the exact right message length, while in LIN that is not the case...".

egonotto, thanks for confirming! The more I look at this, the more I think its a bug, present in 3 places but not in 4 other four places where this same function is offered. And apparently present in both RTB2xxx and RTA4xxx series (and likely also in RTM3xxx series but this is not yet confirmed).

Work for the R&D firmware upgrade people....

 

Offline nctnico

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3003 on: February 12, 2022, 06:40:37 pm »
My best is that this is due to using decimated data for measurements and math.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline goaty

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3004 on: February 21, 2022, 10:38:55 pm »
Man, you need to work at R&S as a test engineer.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3005 on: February 21, 2022, 10:45:46 pm »
When is the last time you have seen a PAL signal? I can imagine they added it for completeness and didn't pay much attention to testing it.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3006 on: February 21, 2022, 11:07:47 pm »
Well, he did say SD…I’m hoping he meant Serial Digital (~270Mbps)
So I’m hoping that’s where his comment came from.
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3007 on: February 22, 2022, 01:54:12 am »
AFAIK SD is standard definition. Like 700 x 500 pixels (4:3) or so which is good old analog television.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline bayjelly

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3008 on: February 22, 2022, 02:01:48 am »
When is the last time you have seen a PAL signal? I can imagine they added it for completeness and didn't pay much attention to testing it.

Super niche, but I'm using PAL triggering all the time for some self-made video circuits. Works overall pretty well for me, except that triggering on a certain line is sometimes glitching to another line, which could however be an artifact of my terribly jittering color burst frequency that drives the whole signal (synthesized from a clock that doesn't fit at all).

Not to negate your point, PAL signals probably are rather rare nowadays.
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3009 on: February 22, 2022, 11:32:35 am »
I don't use Python either but I have copy & pasted Python scripts together to get screendumps from various devices. Having an extra module that deals with reading & formatting the data makes life easier for Python copy & pasters like me.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline MaxZ

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Anyone got a download link for the now old firmware v2.300? Couldn't find it on R&S website and I don't want to do an upgrade on my oscilloscope without a way back.

Edit: Someone sent it to me, thank you!


Thanks!
Max
« Last Edit: March 01, 2022, 11:58:03 am by MaxZ »
 

Offline MaxZ

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Update to v2.4 went flawlessly but the bug I hoped to be fixed is unfortunately still there... Reported half a year ago, maybe a post here gives it some more attention:
To reproduce
* hook up any channel to the 1kHz probe calibration signal (signal source really doesn't matter but this is the easiest)
* Put it into auto mode, with the trigger somewhere above/below the signal (=> free running)
* Hit the stop button
What you get are multiple overlapping waveforms on the screen. You have to scroll horizontally or rescale to get rid of the excessive waveforms. Note that I don't have any persistence option enabled.
This issue can also occur when using normal mode plus single shot. This is especially annoying because it's not always obvious that you have multiple overlapping waveforms...

Hope this gets fixed!
Max
 

Offline nctnico

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Update to v2.4 went flawlessly but the bug I hoped to be fixed is unfortunately still there... Reported half a year ago, maybe a post here gives it some more attention:
To reproduce
* hook up any channel to the 1kHz probe calibration signal (signal source really doesn't matter but this is the easiest)
* Put it into auto mode, with the trigger somewhere above/below the signal (=> free running)
* Hit the stop button
What you get are multiple overlapping waveforms on the screen. You have to scroll horizontally or rescale to get rid of the excessive waveforms. Note that I don't have any persistence option enabled.
This issue can also occur when using normal mode plus single shot. This is especially annoying because it's not always obvious that you have multiple overlapping waveforms...
IMHO it is not a bug but a feature. Some Tektronix oscilloscopes also do this. Sometimes it is handy to have the previous capture still on the screen to see how a signal has changed compared to the current acquisition. Sometimes it is a nuisance because you have to do something (probably pressing the channel button also clears the old trace) to get rid of the previous trace.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2022, 08:13:21 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online 2N3055

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..................
I think Siglent has such a function, with Fast and Slow Acquisition, but I know that only from reading here in the forum.
...............

I cannot say about other scopes, but SDS6000A series shows only last acquisition on stop. You need to enable short persistence to get multiple acquisitions on screen when you stop.

Fast and Slow Acquisition mode is a switch between digital persistence (Fast)  and old school single acquisition per display cycle (Slow) mode.

With LeCroy, Siglent and R&S you get previous acquisitions history buffers too. That is much more powerful way to look at burst of previous triggers...
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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I've been seeing a really odd issue on my RTM3004 since the last FW update.
Every so often, the screen very briefly  fills with a fuzzy blue (ch4 colour) mush. frequency  of occurrence is of the order of 10s of minutes.

Now it gets weirder....
I turned Ch4 off to see if this stopped it, but every so often it still did the same, andat the same time, it also turned Ch4 back on!

Will try to get a video at some point.

Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 
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Offline goaty

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Mike, the R&S is just afraid of all those Tornado lasers around, so thats why the malfunction....
 

Offline vokars

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Math Source and Signal-to-Noise-Ratio

Hi RTB2000 Community,

I still would like to buy the RTB 2000. Could someone, who already has this device, tell me,

1. if the math trace source can be a reference waveform? The user manual seems to say: No, only measurement channels or other math channels?

2. what is your preferred method for measuring the signal-to-noise ratio / signal noise independent from the device noise?

I am asking, because I would solve item 2 with this method:

a) measure StDev of the noise floor without any signal: Device Noise
b) measure the signal in average acquisition mode to eliminate the noise (down to a sufficient level) and save as a reference waveform.
c) Switch average acquisition mode off again and create a math channel to substract the reference from the signal (needs 1. : Reference as math source).
d) Calculate StDev from this math channel
e) Calculate the signal noise StDev with sqrt( StDev(noise from d)^2 - StDev(noise floor from a)^2   )

I expect, that this could be done with SCPI/Python script, but within the device would be much better.
 

Offline simone_b

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Hello,

I have an RTB2004 that after calibration (not made by R&S) has the issue that you can see attached: waveform should be the reference square wave of the oscilloscope.

The R&S support suggested to run a self alignment procedure and check, but unfortunately it didn't fix it.
Now I have 2 options: paid replacement (about half the price of a new one, delivery time 20weeks) or buy an ex-demo unit with a 2weeks of delivery time.

Do you know what this issue is and if it is something fixable by user (oscilloscope is already out of warranty, so opening it doesn't void warranty)?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2022, 02:33:07 pm by simone_b »
 

Offline KaneTW

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That's an interesting failure. Can you go to the finest timebase and see what happens? Mess with different acquisition settings as well.
 
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Offline simone_b

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Hello KaneTW,

thanks for your reply. Please see attached capture.

I didn't say in my previous post that the oscilloscope has been updated to the latest FW version available (02.400) and that it was resetted to the factory settings with a secure erase

 

Offline simone_b

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Also, channel 3 and 4 are not affected by this issue, but only 1 and 2
 

Offline nctnico

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That could be a hardware defect. How about going back to the company that did the calibration and let them deal with the issue? They seem to have broken your scope.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline KaneTW

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Thank you. A few theories would be a high speed signal coupling onto the ADC input, or data corruption coming out of the ADC.
Can you try (separately):
* Turning off interleaved mode (in case there's an issue with interleaving)
* Changing the sample rates
* Turning on hi-res mode

Wouldn't be surprised if something fried the ADC. I don't remember the ADC structure -- is Ch1+Ch3 interleaved or Ch1+Ch2?

That could be a hardware defect. How about going back to the company that did the calibration and let them deal with the issue? They seem to have broken your scope.
Yep. Looks like they messed something up for sure.
 
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Offline simone_b

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The company that did the calibration can't repair or probably it's better to say that don't want to repair and give support. I'm angry about that, as I sent a working oscilloscope and I received a broken one  >:(
 

Offline KaneTW

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The company that did the calibration can't repair or probably it's better to say that don't want to repair and give support. I'm angry about that, as I sent a working oscilloscope and I received a broken one  >:(

Sounds like it's time to lawyer up.
 
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