new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[EEVblog]

Thank you so much! But i need RTB2002 (not 2004) firmwarе!

Check again.

[maxspb69]

Thanks a lot, Dave!

[goaty]

Thanks Dave for the firmware.
R&S really need to think about their reputation in the hobbyist field. With not giving access to even manuals they really did too much.

Edit: I´ll wait till I update, because has anyone checked if options stay ? I have the COM4 package with all options and don´t want to loose Bode.

[Darkover]

R&S really need to think about their reputation in the hobbyist field. With not giving access to even manuals they really did too much.

It is not only the hobbyist! I am a private user with a RTB2004 at home for fun. But at
company I am a developer in a team that think now which spectrum analyzer in the 100Ghz range
we should buy and if I feel pissed off, it is probably not a good idea. And I think it
is the duty of a company to take care for possible customers and not to educate the
customer to something they like!

Pink Floyd: we don't need no education

Olaf

[RBBVNL9]

I agree with Darkover that the new R&S policy about access to firmware has the risk to alleniate them from the engineering community, being it professional users, decision-makers, but also students, universities, hobbyists, retired engineers, and others.

A lot of things about this new policy have already been said in another forum post.

Yet I'd like to point out once more that even as of today, with the introduction of the new RTB2 model, R&S itself writes: "This multi tool integration makes it ideal for users who require compact solutions, especially students, hobbyists and engineers working in environments with limited space.".

I feel it is quite wry that while marketing the RTB2 osciloscope 'especially' to students and hobbyists, they deprive exactly those people from accessing the necessary resources.

Best, Rudi

[alturastheking]

I have BNDL option and after the update. Options are stay.

[Fenstergucker]

I have compared the SCPI commands in firmware v3.0 with v2.4, and found no new commands, except those for the new functions.

Code: [Select]

:MEASurement:GATE...
:TRIGger:A:LEVel:RISetime..
:TRIGger:A:LEVel:RUNT..
:TRIGger:A:RISetime...
:TRIGger:A:RUNT...
 
Peter

[Fenstergucker]

Are the release notes for firmware v3.0 also available? Until now, a PDF document with the changes was always available for download. Would be nice if someone could post the PDF here.

Peter

[RBBVNL9]

Peter,

Are the release notes for firmware v3.0 also available? Until now, a PDF document with the changes was always available for download. Would be nice if someone could post the PDF here.

There is document called "R&S®RTB 2cilloscope Release Notes" (sec). I attached it.

Note however, that it is written from the 'RTB2 perspective' and simply starts from firmware version 03.000, stating this is the first release. It does not explain how it differs from version 02.400 for the RTB2000 series. The single informative part in here is are two (small) known issues.

There is no document from the "RTB2000" perspective on the R&S website and I do not know whether there ever will be one...

Best, Rudi

[alonsojar]

Anyone tested if return to fw 2.4 is possible after update to 3.00 in case of any issue?
Not being this update officially supported (yet?) for RTB2K I'd like to be in the safe way testing new functions.

J. Alonso

[maxspb69]

I installed 3.0 yesterday and tested the oscilloscope. At the moment, no problems have been detected. All options (I have all possible ones installed) have not changed, everything works in the normal mode. The release note even says about downgrading the version, it is possible (but I personally have not checked, there was no need).

[RBBVNL9]

I can confirm that on an RTB2004, downgrading from firmware 3.0 back to 2.4 is no problem at all.

In fact, I was trying to research an issue and went back and forth between the two versions several times today.

The process is very smooth and takes just 35 seconds altogether, and when downgrading, you get an additional warning that you are going to a previous version rather than a newer one.

Best, Rudi

[Fenstergucker]

The operating time and the boot counter are retained during the firmware update. The information in the 'DEVICEINFO.TXT' file of the service report can also be obtained via SCPI command.

Peter

Code: [Select]

Firmware v02.400
Total operating time in minutes
  :SERVice:MODE WENable;:DIAGnostic:SERVice:DDFValue? 1626
Device boot count
  :SERVice:MODE WENable;:DIAGnostic:SERVice:DDFValue? 1627

Firmware v03.000
Total operating time in minutes
  :SERVice:MODE WENable;:DIAGnostic:SERVice:DDFValue? 1645
Device boot count
  :SERVice:MODE WENable;:DIAGnostic:SERVice:DDFValue? 1646


[electronix27]

Thanks Dave, for uploading the 03.00 firmware for the RTB2004.

A year and a half ago I called Rhode and Schwarz support with an issue, and I was told R&S was in the process of redefining how the company handled an individual who made a purchase, versus a company purchase.  They wouldn't help me and directed me to the vendor of purchase.  Not the best experience.  Now maybe this is common with many companies now.  For many years I contacted Fluke directly, mostly via phone, and I had excellent technical service, and could buy parts and components directly from Fluke.

So, not needing to try and establish an account, that Rhode and Schwarz may or may not honor because I'm an individual, just to try out the new firmware.  Tremendous help and time saver.

Thanks again,
Russell

[alonsojar]

Yes, putting all this basic stuff out of the reach of private customers is a nonsense that degrades perception of the brand imo, but on the other side I feel grateful to R&S making this update backwards compatible. New functions are a nice add to our scopes. Maybe this is just done by their own convenience,I don't know, but anyway thank you R&S.
J. Alonso

[2N3055]

Yes, putting all this basic stuff out of the reach of private customers is a nonsense that degrades perception of the brand imo, but on the other side I feel grateful to R&S making this update backwards compatible. New functions are a nice add to our scopes. Maybe this is just done by their own convenience,I don't know, but anyway thank you R&S.
J. Alonso

On the other hand, new users can be fully aware they are buying old scope repackaged with new name sold as new design....

[Takasaka Chikuho]

Looks I got a bug here, After update firmware to FW3.0

[Darkover]

Looks I got a bug here, After update firmware to FW3.0

Of course! It is a new firmware for a new scope. I expect V3.n with n in interval from 1 to 10 very soon.

Olaf

[maxspb69]

I am almost sure, that if the identifiers of the new and old devices did not match, the firmware could not be installed. It is impossible to install firmware that is not suitable for the device.

Most likely, there are no hardware differences between the old and new versions of the device. Only in the case design.

[Darkover]

Most likely, there are no hardware differences between the old and new versions of the device. Only in the case design.

I would expect at least that there are some minor hardware differences with things that had to change because older ones becomes obsolete. For example a different LCD or something like this.
But of course the main idea behind the new scope is probably to change the price without hitting old customer to much. I remember the old RTB2004 was 8000Euro with all options and 4000Euro without
any option. I bought it with all option for 4000Euro at some xmas special sale. And if I remember correctly they now give some options always for free.
And yes, I think too, this is mainly a new device for the marketing department and not for the hardware developement.

I would also expect that they will probably sell some new developed options for new money that still not exist. Than they can made some fresh money with old customers. If this will come it is very understandable to give new firmware to old customer, too.
However, I don't like the color of the newer scopes. So it is good to have an old one with new software.

Olaf

[Robaroni]

I uploaded to 3, thanks for the info guys.

Personally I won't buy another R&S product, not my favorite company. Going back to Tek for my next scope.

[EEVblog]

Looks I got a bug here, After update firmware to FW3.0

Woah, that's odd.

[EEVblog]

Yes, putting all this basic stuff out of the reach of private customers is a nonsense that degrades perception of the brand imo

I don't understand the reasoning here. What's the plus side of deciding to do this?
I think there was talk about Keysight also doing this in some regions or under some circumstances? and IIRC it had to do with some local government regulations or something?
It almost feels like R&S were forced to do this for some reason? 

[RBBVNL9]

Does anyone have the RTB2000 Service Manual and would be willing to share it with me?

The S"R&S RTB2000 Digital Oscilloscope Getting Started" guide mentions that "The service manual is available for registered users on the global Rohde & Schwarz information system (GLORIS, https://gloris.rohde-schwarz.com)." Well, I logged into GLORIS using my account, and while I can access the other RTB resources, I cannot find the service manual there.

Your help is very much appreciated...

[Darkover]

Yes, putting all this basic stuff out of the reach of private customers is a nonsense that degrades perception of the brand imo

I don't understand the reasoning here. What's the plus side of deciding to do this?
I think there was talk about Keysight also doing this in some regions or under some circumstances? and IIRC it had to do with some local government regulations or something?
It almost feels like R&S were forced to do this for some reason? 

For R&S I think this company was never in touch with small customer or private customer. They are very big in special military device and huge and expensive measurement device that are only bought by other huge customer. But some years ago they bought Hameg, a smaller traditional German company who made scopes and other device for smaller company, private user or schools. After they digest Hameg they learned perhaps that they have many calls from 1-people company who made more work on the hotline than they like.   
Another problem is that the world becomes more and more like the USA where all people only think about money all the day. A customer is not the king anymore. A customer is like a sponge you have to squeze for the money.

And the last problem is probably Rigol and other cheap brands that put high preasure on the entry level scopes. I wonder sometimes what was the reason for them to made the RTB. I thought the main reason, they want something for the freshman at university so this people know the company name. It would be a shame if  they graduated and only know Rigol isn't?

Olaf