Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 394706 times)

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Flinstone

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Hello folks - R&S is launching a new MSOX game changer - killer scope - likely at Embedded World - Nurnberg 2017 in Germany

R&S already placed some info on their public site:
https://cdn.rohde-schwarz.com/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_manuals/gb_1/r/rtb_1/RTB_GettingStarted_en_02.pdf
datasheet:





First impressions are very positive, good screen, good interface and the little features like booting up is pretty quick.
The wavegen is powerful and as you'd expect from a scope with a 10 bit ADC, the FFT and measurements functions are impressive.

It comes with advanced features - rather low cost - it is a no brainer ...
pricing and further info:
http://be.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?pageSize=25&st=RTB2002&catalogId=15001&categoryId=700000027006&langId=32&storeId=10154

More info can be found here:  https://www.scope-of-the-art.com/en/


Yabba Dabba Doo !

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« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 09:26:40 am by EEVblog »
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 07:16:59 am »
Dead link.
I was promised one "before release" but they're cutting it a bit fine now...
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Online PA0PBZ

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 07:28:44 am »
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 07:31:11 am »
No separate Y controls  :--
But plenty of buttons :-+

Looks like the touch menus etc. are at the top of the screen, not the bottom.  Not ideal (screen obscured by hand, fatigue) but maybe configurable?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 07:41:30 am by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline Arjan Emm

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 07:33:33 am »
Link works for me. Datasheet is 50 pages,  first 33 pages are safety instructions in multiple languages. You got to be kidding me...

Edit, All 50 pages are  just safety regulations really.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 07:38:47 am by Arjan Emm »
 
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Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 07:36:28 am »
"rather low cost" .. looks like ~$3000 to me.

Anyone know what price range we are talking about here?
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 07:44:12 am »
Dead link.
I was promised one "before release" but they're cutting it a bit fine now...
Hi Mike - I know some about the scopes going out for review (even outside the US).  There ended up being a mixup in shipping and it sounds like distributor stocking units were prioritized first (the blogger units should have gone first or in parallel at least).  My understanding is the blogger units should be going out this week (I got my fedex number today for the units I'm sending on).  I'll check on the status of yours and have them get in contact with you. 

In the meantime, if you have any questions, don't hesitate to PM me.

-Rich
 

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 07:46:11 am »
Link works for me. Datasheet is 50 pages,  first 33 pages are safety instructions in multiple languages. You got to be kidding me...

Edit, All 50 pages are  just safety regulations really.
Link edited or site updated.

Safety info is pretty ridiculous - they could at least have deleted the irrelevant stuff about lasers, RF hazards etc.

2.5gsps bandwidth, so 250? 350? 500MHz ?

Ext trigger on a 4ch scope is unusual  - might very occasionally be useful on the non MSO version, especially if there is trig view.

And what;s with the (presumably) gold-plated BNCs...

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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 07:47:04 am »
"rather low cost" .. looks like ~$3000 to me.

Anyone know what price range we are talking about here?
Significantly lower, but I'd better not post until it's the 14th my time  8)  I'll put up full pricing tomorrow (for the US) if folks would like.

-Rich
 
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Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 07:49:58 am »
"rather low cost" .. looks like ~$3000 to me.

Anyone know what price range we are talking about here?
Significantly lower, but I'd better not post until it's the 14th my time  8)  I'll put up full pricing tomorrow (for the US) if folks would like.

-Rich

I'm excited  ;) Just recently saved up money for a new scope, who knows where they'll go.  :popcorn:
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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 07:58:31 am »
with gesture control ...
For some reason I'm reminded of Bob Widlar...  What would you want a scope to do in response to this gesture?

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 08:01:02 am »
"rather low cost" .. looks like ~$3000 to me.

Anyone know what price range we are talking about here?
Significantly lower,
"Entry cost" presumably.... Looks like at least logic and wavegen are options
Interesting the bandwidth is not printed on the front panel, so presumably some upgrade path like everyone else.
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Offline TheAmmoniacal

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So a $800 entry cost for the basic stripped down scope with 50 MHz and no options? Then $1000 for upgrades? I see where this is going.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 08:04:44 am by TheAmmoniacal »
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Offline Yansi

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I don't see anything game changing there. Just another scope for snobs with gold BNCs. But I keep myself prepared.

It would be more gamechanging, if those chinese manufacturers could at least once produce a DSO with usable firmware rich of features - as their hardware is mostly decent, unlike the FW, which always kills it.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 08:05:16 am »
No separate Y controls  :--
But plenty of buttons :-+

Looks like the touch menus etc. are at the top of the screen, not the bottom.  Not ideal (screen obscured by hand, fatigue) but maybe configurable?
The menus at the top are shortcuts (similar to our toolbar on the RTO/RTE family).  They are configurable.  The main menu is on the righthand side - it pops up but then goes away to allow the waveform to use the full display.  It also has the light pipes around the volt/div knob - no separate Y controls, but relatively straight forward which channel you are changing (and allowed the massive display).  I'll be curious to hear your feedback after using them.

-Rich
 

Offline cheeseit

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Sounds interesting and looks very stylish. Looking forward to see the pricing of scope and options. Maybe entry level pricing for R&S but surely must be more than $500.
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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From Googling a bit I found this snippet, translated from Chinese (mandarin?):

"The R & SĀ®RTB2000 oscilloscope has a bandwidth of 70MHz, 100MHz, 200MHz and 300Hz, providing up to 2. 5 Gs / s sampling rate and 10 M sample storage depth. 10.1 inch display"
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Online nctnico

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Full datasheet:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2236537.pdf

Highlights:
1.25Gs/s with 4 channels on
10" 1280x800 touch screen
70, 100, 200 and 300 MHz (but no 50 Ohm input mode so 300MHz is quite useless)
10 bit ADC
10Mpts per channel (but it seems to be shared with the digital channels so caveat emptor)
Peak detect acquisition mode included
Protocol decoding and digital inputs optional

If R&S sticks to their usual (insane) option pricing then I strongly doubt the bigger screen makes up for the price difference compared to Asian offerings.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 08:21:13 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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So a $800 entry cost for the basic stripped down scope with 50 MHz and no options? Then $1000 for upgrades? I see where this is going.
I should have been more clear.  This is a 2000-class scope in pricing - so it will start well below $3,000, but there will be different price points beyond that.  Think pricing similar to Keysight's 2000X and Tek's DPO2000.  Definitely won't be for every hobbyist, but the value it brings is very high.

BTW - the best part (IMHO) of this scope hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread.  It was mentioned in another thread though ;D

-Rich

Edit:  nctnico mentioned it while I was typing.  It has a R&S designed 10-bit ADC.  Unusual for this class of scope, especially at these sample rates.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 08:21:25 am by Rich@RohdeScopesUSA »
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Manual up already! I see 8 upgrade options..

1. Mixed signal option, additional 16 logic channels
2. Waveform generator and 4-bit pattern generator
3. Bandwith upgrades, 100 MHz, 200 MHz, 300 MHz
4. I2C triggering and decoding
5. UART/RS-232/RS-422/RS-485 triggering and decoding
6. CAN triggering and decoding
7. LIN triggering and decoding
8. History and segmented memory
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Full datasheet:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/2236537.pdf

Highlights:
1.25Gs/s with 4 channels on
10" 1280x800 touch screen
70, 100, 200 and 300 MHz (but no 50 Ohm input mode so 300MHz is quite useless)
300MHz with passive probes works. And 50R through-terminators are hardly a big deal
Quote
Protocol decoding and digital inputs optional

<sigh> Such a shame that  scope manufacturers continue to think that protocol decode is optional. Especially when less useful things like FFT are typically standard.
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Online nctnico

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Now calculate the impedance of a passive probe at 300MHz. The signal gets loaded so much that you won't get a decent representation of what signal is actually there. Feedthroughs are also nothing more than a band aid because the scope's input capacitance will screw things up.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline voltsandjolts

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Just don't mention hacking OK.
 
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Pricing is on Farnell
http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15001&langId=44&storeId=10151&st=rtb20&selectedCategoryId=%5BLjava.lang.String%3B%403ebc3ebc&pageSize=25&showResults=true

All product listings show 16 digital channels, but knowing Farnell this may be an error, or could be only MSO products listed.
70M 2ch GBP1088

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Offline pascal_sweden

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Talking about contests here, this new R&S scope at least wins one price: Ugliest scope of the century :)
 


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