Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 402057 times)

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Online Towger

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Nice wide holes on the air vent grills. Looks like they designed it to me passively cool or at the very least should be quiet, if a decent fan is fitted.
Dave, can you test the strength and of the grills, the down side is they may be easy to brake.
 

Offline tautech

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Nice wide holes on the air vent grills.
Nice for critters to make a home in.  :--

I'd be adding some fine mesh to keep these little buggers out.

http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/11149/mason-wasp-nest
http://www.terrain.net.nz/friends-of-te-henui-group/bees-and-wasps/wasp-mason.html

« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 08:14:52 pm by tautech »
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Offline HighVoltage

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edit: OMG: they use ribbon cable for the MSO probes which cost over 300 euro each:
I have a 3 year old R&S scope and it came with ribbon cable for the MSO probes and it was discounted to Euro 300! :-DD
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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edit: OMG: they use ribbon cable for the MSO probes which cost over 300 euro each:

 :palm:
No, the ribbon calbe usually goes into a small box, which has some 0.1 cent component in it.

Yes. R&S do not make hobbyist level priced gear.
Last time I was talking to them on Electronica, I had the feeling that they are targeting the entry level market. They handed me a "Value instruments katalog 2016". My feeling was it is still too expensive, but probably there are deals if you call their sales office.

The stupid thing is that if they'd price the individual ones more reasonably (e.g. as per DSOX1102) I'm sure they'd sell a lot more and possibly make more overall.
The other stupid thing is why are they even bothering to sell non-physical items through distribution. They could do them online cheaper by cutting out the middle man.
They do that because how big companies work. It is easier to get to convince upper management to get a 2000 EUR instrument than a 4000 EUR one. And then you can just order the 400EUR upgrades, without them even knowing about it. Most middle managers have some 500EUR signing capability. Meaning they are allowed to order stuff for that amount, without discussing it. It is stupid, but big companies work stupid.
 

Offline DaveW

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Got one just before the weekend and managed to get some early playing around filmed, on youtube here.

https://youtu.be/7YxFoahKxQ0

First impressions are very positive, good screen, good interface and the little features like booting up is pretty quick.
The wavegen is powerful and as you'd expect from a scope with a 10 bit ADC, the FFT and measurements functions are impressive.
If there are any particular questions, I can go through them tonight when I get back from work and try and answer some!
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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No builtin 50 ohm termination does kind of suck.
I'd sooner have auto probe sensing
That usually only works for the manufacturer's own probes so it is pretty useless for generic use. I rather have a good UI to setup the probes.
Simple probe divider ratios using a resistor are standard across all the probes I've ever seen
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Offline R005T3r

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Re: new killer scope - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004
« Reply #106 on: March 14, 2017, 09:22:32 pm »
No separate Y controls  :--
But plenty of buttons :-+

Looks like the touch menus etc. are at the top of the screen, not the bottom.  Not ideal (screen obscured by hand, fatigue) but maybe configurable?
The menus at the top are shortcuts (similar to our toolbar on the RTO/RTE family).  They are configurable.  The main menu is on the righthand side - it pops up but then goes away to allow the waveform to use the full display.  It also has the light pipes around the volt/div knob - no separate Y controls, but relatively straight forward which channel you are changing (and allowed the massive display).  I'll be curious to hear your feedback after using them.

-Rich

Does it support virtual screen as the HMO series does?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Got one just before the weekend and managed to get some early playing around filmed, on youtube here.

https://youtu.be/7YxFoahKxQ0

First impressions are very positive, good screen, good interface and the little features like booting up is pretty quick.
The wavegen is powerful and as you'd expect from a scope with a 10 bit ADC, the FFT and measurements functions are impressive.
If there are any particular questions, I can go through them tonight when I get back from work and try and answer some!
Bit of a glitch at 5:40?
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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The pattern generator seems to be a bit of a missed opportunity to add something really useful and differentiate it from other scopes.
AFAICS, the outputs are fixed voltage, and the loop-tag connections are only really suited to hanging a scope probe off.
So doesn't look useful for much more than training signals. 
If they'd had a connector ( e.g. 10W IDC), and either variable or 5/3.33/2.5/1.8v selection it would have been so much more useful. 

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Offline EEVblog

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The pattern generator seems to be a bit of a missed opportunity to add something really useful and differentiate it from other scopes.
AFAICS, the outputs are fixed voltage, and the loop-tag connections are only really suited to hanging a scope probe off.
So doesn't look useful for much more than training signals. 
If they'd had a connector ( e.g. 10W IDC), and either variable or 5/3.33/2.5/1.8v selection it would have been so much more useful.

I found a similar limitation on the MHO1000 series. Quite restricting
 

Online nctnico

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Got one just before the weekend and managed to get some early playing around filmed, on youtube here.
 the FFT and measurements functions are impressive.
How many points is the FFT you where showing? And what is the maximum FFT length?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Got one just before the weekend and managed to get some early playing around filmed, on youtube here.
 the FFT and measurements functions are impressive.
How many points is the FFT you where showing? And what is the maximum FFT length?

128K point max.
 

Online wraper

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Bit of a glitch at 5:40?
Funny, happened during a brief moment when he looked away from the scope and disappeared when he looked back.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Looking at your test setup, you only have R&S gear. Are you an R&S aficionado aka fanboy?

The touch screen seems more like a gimmick that most professional users will not use on a daily basis.

R&S is overpriced IMO. Run & Shout :)

Got one just before the weekend and managed to get some early playing around filmed, on youtube here.

https://youtu.be/7YxFoahKxQ0

First impressions are very positive, good screen, good interface and the little features like booting up is pretty quick.
The wavegen is powerful and as you'd expect from a scope with a 10 bit ADC, the FFT and measurements functions are impressive.
If there are any particular questions, I can go through them tonight when I get back from work and try and answer some!
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Touch saves some space on the edges of the screen as you can use touch in lieu of push buttons. I'd question the longevity of the touch screen. Daniel likes to show off the added functionality of touch in his demonstrations and it's certainly better than voice control.
Your toaster just set fire to an African child over TCP.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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The touch screen seems more like a gimmick that most professional users will not use on a daily basis.
Although I'm a die-hard "knobs & buttons" person, I find I do use the touchscreen on my MSOX3104T, and start to miss it when using scopes without. It does seem to have exceptional fingermark resistance on its glass anti-reflective screen.

One very useful function is being able to pop up a keyboard to enter numeric values and label text. And also zone trigger. The freehand draw annotation feature on the R&S looks very useful - the Keysight lets you enter text labels and position them anywhere.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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If there are any particular questions, I can go through them tonight when I get back from work and try and answer some!
Can you do some pics/vid of the various colour-graded and inverse brightness modes, ideally with a nontrivial waveform like analogue video or AM.
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Online wraper

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Touch saves some space on the edges of the screen as you can use touch in lieu of push buttons. I'd question the longevity of the touch screen. Daniel likes to show off the added functionality of touch in his demonstrations and it's certainly better than voice control.
If it is made with some sort of glass surface like modern smartphones/tablets, then it will be virtually indestructible for such use.
 

Offline bktemp

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edit: OMG: they use ribbon cable for the MSO probes which cost over 300 euro each:

 :palm:
No, the ribbon calbe usually goes into a small box, which has some 0.1 cent component in it.
If I remember correctly, the small box has the comparators in it, converting the sensed input signals into differential signals.
Ribbon cable has close to 100ohms impedance between neighbouring wires, so it is useable for differential signals like LVDS up to many 100MBits/s.
 

Offline Frost

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I think there is more Hameg under the hood than R&S.

I would say, this is a Hameg device.
First, it's to cheap for R&S and second on the datatec page
they call the manufaturer "Rohde & Schwarz Value Instruments"
and "Value Instruments" in my oppinion, is the new name for the
old Hamge brand.
 

Offline DaveW

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Bit of a glitch at 5:40?
Funny, happened during a brief moment when he looked away from the scope and disappeared when he looked back.

Gremlins! Or possibly editing... But probably gremlins.  It was all filmed and edited pretty quickly I'm afraid.

If there are any particular questions, I can go through them tonight when I get back from work and try and answer some!
Can you do some pics/vid of the various colour-graded and inverse brightness modes, ideally with a nontrivial waveform like analogue video or AM.

Will do; I seem to remember there being a invert option for the colour grading. Shall get an AM waveform and post some screenshots
 

Offline dr.diesel

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I would say, this is a Hameg device.
First, it's to cheap for R&S and second on the datatec page
they call the manufaturer "Rohde & Schwarz Value Instruments"
and "Value Instruments" in my oppinion, is the new name for the
old Hamge brand.

This would be good news IMO, wonder if the original Hameg Mainhausen office is still up and ticking in the wake of R&S?

Offline madires

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Yep, most likely a Hameg. Let's see if they do a promotion with free decode options as they have done in the past. 800 bucks for UART, I2C and SPI is insane.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Yep, most likely a Hameg. Let's see if they do a promotion with free decode options as they have done in the past. 800 bucks for UART, I2C and SPI is insane.

It's nuts when a new sub $400 scope has them built in as standard. It's sitting in my dumpster, wait for it...
 

Offline ebastler

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Yep, most likely a Hameg. Let's see if they do a promotion with free decode options as they have done in the past. 800 bucks for UART, I2C and SPI is insane.

Agree -- doesn't sound like they actually expect to charge that amount. Maybe they have just inflated the price tag so they can show their customers what a great value they are getting with the upcoming free promo ;-)
 


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