Author Topic: new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004  (Read 809380 times)

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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Thank you - I appreciate the kind words.  Although I've been lax the last week or so - spring break with the kiddos.

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Where is the best place to send errors and change requests?
I wrote the question to customersupport(at)rohde-schwarz.com but didn't get an answer.
The e-mail address was from R&S Austria, I prefer to write in German than in English.
I can also post here, but suspect that it will be ignored.

Peter
Hi Peter - that is the correct email address for Austria.  It is monitored 24/7, so if it was picked up by another region it sometimes takes a bit to get routed to the correct region.  If you write it in German I bet it will be routed quicker by non-German speaking regions  ;D

You can also use gloris.rohde-schwarz.com.  You can create an account there and I believe submit questions/issues.

-Rich
 
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Offline Joel_l

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I tried to get mine to duplicate this and couldn't. Sampling rate just follows time base. Even if I manually set the record length, the sample rate would still just follow the time base on what ever calculation it's using. I did notice sometimes, the sample rate took a moment to update when changing the time base.

At 20uS/div you should be at 2.5GSa/S unless you played with the record length.
 

Offline Fgrir

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The record length is set to automatic.

1. Normal Trigger: 20 µs/, 2.5 GSa/s
2. Change to 50 µs/: 625 MSa/s
3. Change to Auto Trigger: 2.5 GSa/s

Peter

I can confirm this behavior on my unit also running FW 2.202.

In Auto trigger mode the sample rate is 2.5GSa/s for 500us/ and faster, switching to 1.25GSa/s for 1ms/ and so on.

When switching into Normal trigger mode, the sample rate remains unchanged, but then switching to any slower horizontal setting than what was active when you switched into normal mode causes a lower sample rate than the 2.5GSa/s.  For example if I switch to Normal trigger mode while the scope is at 100us/, then I get 2.5GSa/s for 100us/ and faster, but it switches to 1.25GSa/s at 50us/, 312MSa/s at 500us/, and so on.  Switching back to Auto trigger at 500us/ takes you back to 2.5GSa/s.

It looks to me like the scope is locking the Auto Record length setting when I enter Normal trigger mode.

EDIT: Yes, it is definitely locking the Auto Record Length when you switch to Normal trigger mode.  Screenshots 1-3 show the record length changing as timebase setting is changed while in Auto mode, and screens 4-6 show the constant record length while timebase changes in Normal mode.

EDIT 2: Even more interesting is that the locked 3 MSa Record length displayed for 500us/ in screen #6 isn't even a valid record length for that sample rate - it is between the allowed settings of 2MSa and 5MSa.  It actually appears to be using the 2 MSa setting.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 06:07:30 pm by Fgrir »
 
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Online PA0PBZ

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Looks like you need to compensate the probes on the R&S, for the rest I see nothing wrong?
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Online PA0PBZ

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The probes are compensated. The RTB2k offers its own option for this. When I use the Rigol probe, the signal looks the same as with the RTB2k probe.

Peter

Having compensated the probes on the Rigol does not mean that they are compensated for the R&S because the input capacitance of the scopes can be different. Are you using the R&S probes on the R&S scope and did you follow the probe adjust procedure? What if you connect the Rigol probes and do the probe adjust procedure?



Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Online exe

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With the 1:1 setting the compensation works but is not correct.

I'm not sure 1:1 can be compensated. I think only in 1:10 mode the compensation works as this way you adjust capacitive divider to match the same ratio as resistive divider (1:10). The pictures you showed looks fine to me, b you need to adjust probes on rtb2k.
 

Offline maxspb69

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Any probes are not compensated for 1:1 mode. It's impossible. Only 1:10 (1:100 etc) can be  compensated. See probe scheme...
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 05:41:55 am by maxspb69 »
 

Offline matches

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Yeah in x1 mode, there is nothing to compensate for.
Dave has a nice video regarding specifics of the x1 mode of the switchable probes.

 
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Offline norks

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Pedre, your screenshot shows an amplitude of 250 mV instead of the proper 2.5V. It looks like you have the probe switched to 10:1 but configured as a 1:1 in the RTB2000. That's probably the cause of the error.
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Pedre, your screenshot shows an amplitude of 250 mV instead of the proper 2.5V. It looks like you have the probe switched to 10:1 but configured as a 1:1 in the RTB2000. That's probably the cause of the error.
No, the oscilloscope does this by itself if you use the Probe Adjust App on channel 1. The compensation doesn't work with the Probe Adjust App and channel 1.
I have described it here:
http://peter.dreisiebner.at/rohde-schwarz-rtb2000/fehler-005.htm

You have an RTB2004, maybe you can confirm the error.

Peter
Hi Peter - talked with the R&D team on this.  It sounds like they know about this and it has been fixed in the next release.

-Rich
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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All PMs replied as well.

-Rich
 

Offline agdr

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    • agdr Audio

Hi Peter - talked with the R&D team on this.  It sounds like they know about this and it has been fixed in the next release.

-Rich

Cool, another release! :D  More stuff fixed and maybe a new thing or 2...  Always makes me happy to see continuing support on a product.  :)  Thanks R & S!
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 02:14:02 am by agdr »
 

Offline norks

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Finally had a chance to take a look at the probe adjust bug and confirm it, but I guess it's moot since R&S already fixed it.

Good catch on the sample rate/record length bug with normal trigger. I noticed some unexpected stuff going on with the sample rate before and didn't understand why. That would explain it.
 
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Offline bayjelly

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Is there anything I can do to change the record length in FFT mode to be smaller? Here's why:

I often use the FFT function (love the new improvements) with relatively low frequency spans < 100kHz (think audio frequencies), and then the fixed record size quickly becomes annoying.

For example, looking at a 24kHz span with a 10Hz resolution bandwidth, the resulting window size is only 2400 points, which at the proper Nyquist rate of 48kHz (which the scope chooses) takes 100ms to capture. (The scope actually chooses a different width depending on the chosen windowing function, e.g. 89.04ms for a rectangular window, but I suspect the effective RBW depends on that function.)

However, the fixed record size of 131kSamples (2^17) is much larger than that, taking around 2.7 seconds to fill up at 48kHz. If I choose a lower span or a better RBW, it can get into tens of seconds per update.

In the screenshot, you can see that the window is pretty small in comparison to the record. The good thing is that I can stop the acquisition and move the window around those 2.7s to look at the spectrum at different times, or change the RBW without recapturing, but most of the time I'd rather have the quickest update rate possible, especially for fast-changing signals.

Interestingly, it seems that the scope would do the right thing in Roll mode, but then it does not display the FFT at all anymore (I suspect because there is no actual trigger).
 

Offline luzotug

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Where is the best place to send errors and change requests?
I wrote the question to customersupport(at)rohde-schwarz.com but didn't get an answer.

I've used the customer email support to get my RTB-K36 license and, as Rich said, "it takes sometimes". Always got an answer the following day.
A couple of days was needed to get my activation license (in addition of scope id and RTB-PK1 serial number, your name and address are also mandatory info).
I'm a hobbist and I found it was an adequate response time, no complaints here. I can give a thumbs up to the R&S customer support  :-+
 

Offline MikeP

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Is there anything I can do to change the record length in FFT mode to be smaller?

 Yes, yes, and yes again. Work FFT has become much less convenient. This should be changed.
 

Offline bayjelly

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Work FFT has become much less convenient.

Oh, does that mean it was different before the last update, which brought the significant changes to the FFT app? Anyway, apart from the lack of being able to specify a smaller record length in FFT, I am very fond of the updated FFT function.

I am also very happy with the scope in general. There are some small things that I wish were different, like the aforementioned FFT issue, the much-spoken-about indents in some of the rotary encoders, or the somehow minor but noticeable fact that almost all of the selectable grid intensity range is too high in contrast for my taste, so that I almost always have to switch it to either the lowest intensity or a dot grid (and yet the scope is always very happy to snap back to the uncomfortably high contrast grid, e.g. when pressing Preset). But overall, I'm very glad I chose this scope.
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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Hi Everyone - all PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline sbrunner

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Only the English version was updated yesterday. Contains new Bode Plot feature, and appears to integrate 02.202 enhancements. The German version is still on v5 from 2018.
 

Offline genghisnico13

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Hi Rich,
Would it be possible to add an option similar to "Vert. Position Knob" but for math channels or at least to follow this setting? Let me explain:
Currently the "Math Vert. Position Knob" option(that I would like to be added) is set to Position, not Offset which is how I would prefer it, so when you change the Math channel Vertical scale the center of the waveform doesn't remain in the center of the screen requiring an increasingly bigger position adjustment every time I change the scale.
I suppose an Offset field should be added in the Math menu, next to the position and scale one. Speaking of the Scale field in the Math menu you can set values out of range that aren't possible, accepting them without changing the scale (refreshing it to the real value after closing and reopening the menu) and the Min/Max displayed are nonsense.

Would it be also possible to have different colors for each math channel?

There are some inconsistencies with Zoom and Math, when you enable Zoom, the Math channels appear in the zoom window, but if you zoom they don't change, this is not 100% consistent but could be OK since usually the zoom window is bigger.
Maybe it would be better to change the scale of the selected math waveform with the vertical scale knob when selecting by touching a Math channel in the Zoom window, since unlike with real channels you can't select a math channel in the unZoomed window (they disappear) and to change its scale requires you to select the desired math channel from the "Short menu" (or the math button to select the last). I'm not sure if this is the best way to do this.

Since I'm asking, would it be possible to add References to Bode?

PD: I'm not gonna ask about adding filters to the math functions......but that would be awesome. ;)
edit: typo
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 09:44:40 pm by genghisnico13 »
 
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Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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I'll forward these on to the dev team.

-Rich
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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All PMs replied.

-Rich
 

Offline YetAnotherTechie

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Hello,
Is there any documentation on the probe protocol that would allow making your own probes?
Some literature says the RT-ZA9 can be controlled by any PC, but i can't find either software or manual on R&S website

Thank you
 

Offline Rich@RohdeScopesUSA

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All PMs replied.

-Rich
 


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